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Acaibaero

One puff of smoke from RN CAs

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Probably 80% of the time, I only get 1 puff of smoke and get caught out in the open.  And no, I'm not stationary when I hit smoke, usually going 16kn-18kn when I hit the button.  It happens whether I'm going straight or in a turn.  The few times I've complained about it and others mention that yea, it happens but WG says it's not a bug.

 

In the pic I hit the smoke and ran into an island hoping the smoke would conceal me, but with only 1 puff, I was left out in the open and killed.

 

Is it a bug or not?  If it's not, why am I only seeing 1 smoke ring and if I'm outta that ring, I'm detected?

 

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It's not a bug.  You have to be doing close to 3/4s speed to get two puffs of smoke from an RN cruiser.

1/4, 1/2Half Speed + Signal, 3/4, Full, and finally Full + Signal

 

 

dbfyh.png

British Cruisers -- Number of Smoke Clouds Generated per Knot of Speed Traveled.

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It's a classic bug-feature. The line is blurred because technically the game is doing exactly what the developers intended, but this has rather unexpected consequences that the developers have thus far been dismissing.

 

When you are moving too slowly, smoke puffs overlap. Any smoke puff of which more than 60-75% (or so) would overlap with another puff will never appear. This was intended as an optimization to avoid rendering and calculating collisions for too many puffs that are essentially in the same place. Well and good.

 

The unintended consequence is that as an RN CL you have a very small speed window between going too slow (thus not receiving the second puff because it overlaps too much) and going too fast (thus drifting out of the second puff).

 

Eventually the devs will alter the overlap threshold globally or at least for ships with a max of 2-3 puffs. Until then, you have to work around it by either playing it safe (count on one puff) or getting really good with speed estimation. The issue is not random as far as I know, it's just annoying as all hell and needs to be fixed.

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WG felt two puffs was OP?:hmm:

 

Kidding aside, I suppose you'll want to go under 5ish knots and then pop smoke until they fix it.  It's the only reasonable way I see to deal with it.

 

EDIT:

 

Littlewhitemouse always makes everything ok.  She has graphs, numbers, and information, all of it helpful to people who enjoy boats.  Where it comes from?  Nobody knows. :amazed:

Edited by Venom81

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It's not a bug.  You have to be doing close to 3/4s speed to get two puffs of smoke from an RN cruiser.

1/4, 1/2Half Speed + Signal, 3/4, Full, and finally Full + Signal

 

 

dbfyh.png

British Cruisers -- Number of Smoke Clouds Generated per Knot of Speed Traveled.

 

lol.

 

so it's not a bug. you just have to be going too fast to stop in the smoke in order to get more than one puff. that's diabolical.

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I've seen many people talk about this, but I've yet to witness or experience only getting one puff in game.

I've had this happen more often than not on the Edinburgh than any other ship in the line.

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As LWM showed, it's not a bug, you just have to be going fast enough for the second puff to appear. I recommend not hitting smoke until you're at about 20 knots, and going full port or full starboard rudder with full reverse engine not to outrun your own smoke.

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lol.

 

so it's not a bug. you just have to be going too fast to stop in the smoke in order to get more than one puff. that's diabolical.

 Nope. When going full speed, put it into full reverse, and when your speed drops between 19-22knots, that's the sweet spot to pop your smoke and youll stop before you move out of your smoke. Most people fail to understand this. Hit it while you're still going faster than 22 knots and you'll drive out of your smoke, hit it when going below 19knots and you'll get 1 puff. Always make sure you hit your smoke when going between 19-22knots once you start to slow down.

Edited by renegadestatuz

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It's not a bug.  You have to be doing close to 3/4s speed to get two puffs of smoke from an RN cruiser.

1/4, 1/2Half Speed + Signal, 3/4, Full, and finally Full + Signal

 

 

dbfyh.png

British Cruisers -- Number of Smoke Clouds Generated per Knot of Speed Traveled.

 

It is definitely a bug. I have had it happen to me when moving at a speed that should generate two. Most of the time you get two puffs, but sometimes you only get 1. Same speed, etc. 
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It's a classic bug-feature. The line is blurred because technically the game is doing exactly what the developers intended, but this has rather unexpected consequences that the developers have thus far been dismissing.

 

When you are moving too slowly, smoke puffs overlap. Any smoke puff of which more than 60-75% (or so) would overlap with another puff will never appear. This was intended as an optimization to avoid rendering and calculating collisions for too many puffs that are essentially in the same place. Well and good.

 

The unintended consequence is that as an RN CL you have a very small speed window between going to slow (thus not receiving the second puff because it overlaps too much) and going to fast (thus drifting out of the second puff).

 

Eventually the devs will alter the overlap threshold globally or at least for ships with a max of 2-3 puffs. Until then, you have to work around it by either playing it safe (count on one puff) or getting really good with speed estimation. The issue is not random as far as I know, it's just annoying as all hell and needs to be fixed.

 

Smoke generation is weird.  There appears to be an internal balancing mechanic based on different ships and tiers.  There's no ready pattern that I was able to discern.  Consider that the Mikhail Kutuzov, a tier 8 Soviet Cruiser can lay a maximum of 10 smoke clouds when moving flat out at 33.0 knots.  However, the IJN Destroyers, like the Minekaze and Shimakaze, capable of doing 44.1 knots, cap out at 7 smoke clouds.  This is despite all three ships having the same emission time (20 seconds).  When you watch them drop smoke, the rate at which the smoke clouds come out varies depending on the ship and speed.

 

Another good example is with the Soviet Destroyers.  They will not drop 8 or 9 smoke clouds.  They drop 7 or 10 at their top speeds.  This is again due to whatever balancing component is baked into the ships.

 

1183hoz.jpg

 

et89pe.jpg

 

That's the Kutuzov (top) and the Flint (bottom) each moving at half speed.  Notice how the smoke clouds of the Kutuzov are much more closely squished together than the Flint.  This is a balancing mechanic baked into each ship.  So not only do the British cruisers have less emission time to balance them out, their smoke clouds also require a lot of room before they issue a second puff of smoke.  I wasn't able to isolate the exact speed / distance required.  In a straight line test, moving at half speed + signal was insufficient.  Moving at 3/4s speed always would generate two clouds.  This isn't a bug.  It's how it's deliberately designed.

 

Just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it a bug.

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 Nope. When going full speed, put it into full reverse, and when your speed drops between 19-22knots, that's the sweet spot to pop your smoke and youll stop before you move out of your smoke. Most people fail to understand this. Hit it while you're still going faster than 22 knots and you'll drive out of your smoke, hit it when going below 19knots and you'll get 1 puff. Always make sure you hit your smoke when going between 19-22knots once you start to slow down.

 

I generally always hit mine at 22kts, and got screwed by it 3 times in 2 games.  If it's not a bug, it's a bad feature, honestly.

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what garbage; you literally have to do a brake stand(full reverse) wait until you're in the teens to pop smoke so you DON'T drift out of puff two but by your metrics you have to be going too fast for puff two to even get it to deploy? FFS! If you're at the edge of the cloud and the timer's still ticking for the charge the smoke should " bloom" or billow outward.

 

 

EDIT: I've heard repeatedly on multiple people's stream accounts and other people playing the game that the sweet spot for speed to NOT drift out of your own smoke is like... 12.5-14knots, not 20+ !!!  

Edited by Pillager_Serj

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I'm glad Flamu posted his video a day after mine, he has a lot more viewers than I do but I definitely showed what the problem was in mine whereas he kinda danced around the actual issue.

 

Here is mine:

 

Summary:  

33.5 knots = 2 smoke clouds

24 knots = 1 smoke cloud

24 knots again = 1 smoke cloud again

18 knots = 2 smoke clouds

 

It's not a bug.  You have to be doing close to 3/4s speed to get two puffs of smoke from an RN cruiser.

1/4, 1/2Half Speed + Signal, 3/4, Full, and finally Full + Signal

 

 

dbfyh.png

British Cruisers -- Number of Smoke Clouds Generated per Knot of Speed Traveled.

 

The problem here has nothing to do with deploying too slow.  See my video where deploying at 24 knots = 1 puff but at 18 = 2 puffs.

 

As LWM showed, it's not a bug, you just have to be going fast enough for the second puff to appear. I recommend not hitting smoke until you're at about 20 knots, and going full port or full starboard rudder with full reverse engine not to outrun your own smoke.

 

As said above, deploying too slow isn't the problem, the problem is that at 24 knots you get 1 puff, but at 18 you get two and at max speed (33.5) you get 2.

 

EDIT:  WG NA Support has responded to my support ticket by saying they will give the link to the video to the developers when they return from their Christmas holiday.

Edited by UrPeaceKeeper
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It is definitely a bug. I have had it happen to me when moving at a speed that should generate two. Most of the time you get two puffs, but sometimes you only get 1. Same speed, etc. 

 

Smoke generation is consistent.  If you don't meet the requirements to generate a second smoke cloud, you don't get one.  It's as simple as that.  In over 800 tests (at roughly 3 to 5 minutes per tests), I only encountered one (1) instance where I got different results.  This was with the Iwaki Alpha where I had volunteers running the tests for me so I couldn't isolate where the error was.

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As LWM showed, it's not a bug, you just have to be going fast enough for the second puff to appear. I recommend not hitting smoke until you're at about 20 knots, and going full port or full starboard rudder with full reverse engine not to outrun your own smoke.

 

Well that doesn't seem a rather haphazard way of doing things at all, and it's a completely well thought out design to have a chance of actually utilizing the consumable you just used.

 

Going 20 knots then slamming on the brakes is an Old World 19th century Naval Tradition that predates Betty White by just three weeks.  Naval history is fun, and Betty White is [edited]awesome.

 

ssjGXaSl.jpg

 

EDIT: 

 

 

Lol every single post I've made has been done while I follow my wife around the store on her "5 minute" trip to get a pair of jeans. I am so [edited]bored.  Send me flies.  Locusts, frogs, make it rain crapon the day I forgot my Jabba The Hutt umbrella.

 

Seriously, it's been over an hour, and she is still feeling crap. 

 

Why must you [edited]feel everything?  Do you think that 100% cotton is better than the other kind of 100% cotton you felt 47 times?  Do you even care that you're the reason we go first, due to complications from your delicious cooking and your infuriating quirks, like leaving the hamper lid up, or talking to me when I haven't yet been awake for my 14 hours of me time.  I just want to shoot crap. :red_button:

 

I'm buying a house boat.

Edited by Venom81

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If you don't want to outrun your own smoke generation rate, you have to be moving 12.5 knots or slower.  That's true of all ships currently.  Any faster than that and you will be (briefly) visible before the next cloud is laid out.

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Smoke generation is consistent.  If you don't meet the requirements to generate a second smoke cloud, you don't get one.  It's as simple as that.  In over 800 tests (at roughly 3 to 5 minutes per tests), I only encountered one (1) instance where I got different results.  This was with the Iwaki Alpha where I had volunteers running the tests for me so I couldn't isolate where the error was.

 

See my post above yours... speed has nothing to do with it.  There is a "zone" where you can be traveling 24 knots and get 1 puff but be going SLOWER (18 knots) and get two.  THAT is the problem.

Edited by UrPeaceKeeper

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Anecdotally I have had some issues with no second puff, and I consistently keep a target speed at 19kts. Unfortunately I have no empirical or video evidence to go on (as I have no interest in WG's probably purposefully bad replay system). I've definitely done it at 30kts and only had one puff, I was trying to mask someone else anyway.

 

Whether design or bug, the implementation of RN cruiser smoke is atrocious. It's supposed to be a fun game, having some idiot mechanic where an exact speed is required and can have counter intuitive results is not sensible. Especially when we're controlling these warships with ye-basic engine room telegraph of 4 settings. Heck, there's plenty of precedent for it being a bug, WG only just fixed the taking an extra 'tick' of damage after using damage-control. Was that a 'bug' for 18 months, or did they change the design.

 

 

 

I get that RN CL are supposed to be the gimmicky, static-game play inducing, over-tiered, gimmicky (again) ships, high skill floor/ceiling, but encouraging a 'high skill floor' with a mechanic such as this is questionable at best...

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Well that doesn't seem a rather haphazard way of doing things at all, and it's a completely well thought out design to have a chance of actually utilizing the consumable you just used.

 

Going 20 knots then slamming on the brakes is an Old World 19th century Naval Tradition that predates Betty White by just three weeks.  Naval history is fun, and Betty White is [edited]awesome.

 

ssjGXaSl.jpg

 

Your hilaaaarious sarcasm aside, I'll be testing this tomorrow, in a Neptune and an Edinburgh, whether I can replicate the issue that at 18 knots 2 puffs generate and at 24 knots just 1. Why tomorrow? Because your sarcasm wasn't quite hilarious enough for me to drop what I'm doing and test it now.

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lol.

 

so it's not a bug. you just have to be going too fast to stop in the smoke in order to get more than one puff. that's diabolical.

No, you just don't have much margin.  Faster than 28 knots and you'll drift out, lower than 24 and you'll have only one puff.

 

Or you could just smoke when you're at below 10 knots and be fine anyways.

I get that RN CL are supposed to be the gimmicky, static-game play inducing, over-tiered, gimmicky (again) ships, high skill floor/ceiling, but encouraging a 'high skill floor' with a mechanic such as this is questionable at best...

Sounds like someone needs to leave the Emerald.  Other than her, there really aren't any RN CLs that are anything approaching overtiered.

 

The smoke bug is hardly a problem if you play the ships enough to get a feel for what speed you should be at to avoid it.  It's just another thing that requires some muscle memory to learn and then you're set.  After struggling for a little bit with Emerald, I've had it down pat since.  What requires skill in RN CL is knowing when to pop the smoke, not how you pop it.

Edited by TenguBlade

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Interesting, I hadn't seen that deceleration, two-cloud bug.  My apologies.

 

I ran all of my tests looking for consistent, repeatable speeds that anyone could recreate.  The problem with attempting to find "in between" velocities came from one of consistency.  As an example, in your two "24 knot" deceleration, you average two completely different speeds while laying smoke (and get the same number of smoke clouds, but that's beside the point).  While digging for the elusive 8-smoke clouds from the Soviet Destroyers, I tried finding something between 3/4s and 4/4 but never with any ability to repeat what I had done. 

 

It makes sense that in actual game play, people would trip over this British cruiser two instant cloud generation in game and wonder what the heck is going on.  From what I can ascertain, it's generating the first ring (the one furthest back) with a timestamp of when the smoke button was initially hit.  You're effectively getting a "bonus" smoke ring.  You should only be getting the one that's centered around your ship as you decelerate.  What this looks like to me is a bug where a wire is crossing.  Smoke clouds used to appear the moment you hit the Smoke Generator.  Wargaming later added a 3 second delay before the first ring appears.  This 3 second rule is still adhering but at this sudden deceleration at this set speed, the game is still including your position when the smoke generator was activated and providing a bonus circle.  It shouldn't be doing that.  You can expect when the Devs get a hold of it that this second cloud will likely vanish.

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