Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Lillehuntrix

0.6.0 captain skills - mid-tier discussion

  • You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.

13 posts in this topic

Much of the discussion of the 0.6.0 captain skills has, explicitly or implicitly, focused on high-skill point captains (usually) played on high-tier ships.  What can one do with 14 or 18 points, etc., and what effects will there be on overall gameplay?  A lot of concern about specific aspects of the proposed new tree, such as RPF, also does not differentiate its effects on play at different tiers.

 

My thesis here is that it is worth distinguishing predictable effects of the new skill tree on mid versus high-tier play, and that such effects may in fact be opposite in terms of their impact on ship type balance.  If in fact the new tree has one set of consequences at high tiers and another one at middle tiers, this will make it unusually difficult to balance overall.  Although there has been a lot of discussion about the 0.6.0 skills already, I think it might thus be worthwhile to devote some attention specifically to mid-tier effects.

 

For purposes of this thread, by mid-tier I mean mostly tier 5-8 ships (centering on 6-7), with captains largely in the 10-13 point range at the helm.  Given the proposed new 0.6.0 progression table, and assuming a large proportion of the player base that is just moving a captain up a line, using free or credit retraining, with some but not excessive use of dragon flags, etc., I don't think 10 point captains will be the norm until tier 5-6, and I don't think 14 point captains will be common until some way into tier 8.  So, in other words, what does the game look like when we consider captains with access to one, but only one, tier 4 skill?

 

(1) I think we see most non-VMF destroyers, many/most cruisers, and some battleships taking CE the first chance they get.  CE is currently the must-have skill at T5 for many builds because of the huge advantage it gives in controlling engagement, and I don't see this changing as CE is moved to T4.  Many other captains that do not take CE will likely choose some other T4 skill other than RPF to advance some specific build: AS will likewise be must-have for CVs as the first T4 choice, AFT perhaps for VMF destroyers/AA monster wannabes/secondary build psychos, etc.  So in other words, in mid-tier play, I don't predict a lot of RPF on the board, and those captains that do choose RPF will be giving up something significant and relevant to their survival chances or offensive capacity.

 

(2) As a result, the "concealment meta" will extend into mid-tier play before RPF makes a large-scale appearance, and this will provide an overall buff to ships that rely most on concealment - i.e., torpedo destroyers.  (And this can be true even as the new skills nerf DDs at higher tiers.)  Picture a New Fubuki.  Now picture a New Fubuki with CE and, possibly, if someone wants to have some giggles at 12 captain points, Torpedo Acceleration, operating in an environment in which radar is still rare and RPF is as well.  (The two-for-one airplane skill at T1 may offset this somewhat.)

 

(3) Meanwhile, another hidden effect of the new skill tree will be to take some amount of AA power off the board at mid-tiers.  The same Cleveland that would take AFT at T4 will now have to choose between that at the opportunity to take CE earlier; even battleships that might want to spec into AFT and/or MFAA will be choosing between that and concealment.  At tier 3, BFT has a lot of competition: BoS for battleships, DE, etc.  So again, the net result is that carriers may have less AA to contend with at mid-tiers, even as they may (as some have argued) get the short end of the stick once one is in the realm of 14+ point captains.

 

TL; DR: If one considers not just ultimate, 19-point builds, there is a progression of different effects the new skills may have on the game at different tiers of play, to the extent that they may affect mid- and upper-tier play in contrasting directions, particularly in terms of ship type (BB, CA, DD, CV) balance.

 

Thoughts?


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RPF opens up the door for some brutal DD seal clubbing in low-mid tiers as the clubbers will now have an arrow pointing to the next seal to club while the new and inexperienced players will have no idea what's going on and end up thinking it's a wall hack.


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RPF opens up the door for some brutal DD seal clubbing in low-mid tiers as the clubbers will now have an arrow pointing to the next seal to club while the new and inexperienced players will have no idea what's going on and end up thinking it's a wall hack.

 

Yes, a wall hack... the game clearly tells you when you are being affected by the skill 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, a wall hack... the game clearly tells you when you are being affected by the skill 

 

New players...inexperienced...no idea what's going on..end up thinking...

 

If you can't read don't bother replying.

Edited by Rouxi

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, a wall hack... the game clearly tells you when you are being affected by the skill 

No,  it doesn't.  You do not have to be spotted to be the closest ship to your target.


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest benefit with the new skill tree is that the final skills (the ones that used to be 5 points) are now accessible a lot earlier, evening the playfield with people with captains with more points. A 10 points captain can now have CE (or Manual secondaries, or Air Supremacy), when they'd need a 15 points captain before! These staple skills will now be available to newer players. This is a good change overall.

 

I think you're also right in the effect it will have on some builds or ships (your example of a Cleveland taking CE before AFT), because there are now a lot more interesting choices at 4 points than there were before. The builds were pretty much all the same before, but now there are different ways to build a captain. It's also possible to quickly (as soon as the 11th point) start getting skills of tiers you already took (if you go for a 4 points skill first of course). Similarly, we could see a lot more secondary build BBs in lower tiers and newer CVs should have a better chance at fighting more experienced CVs (Air Supremacy).

 

However, I'm not sure concealment will be that much a problem in lower tier. At that tier, cruisers are still able to be more aggressive. Furthermore, the new 2 catapult planes skill will help with torpedo spotting. Lastly, I think a lot of people will be tempted to take the new RPF and it should counter the concealment a little.


1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things I don't like is that level 1 and 2 skills are junk. Used to have a good low tier build on these skills, no more. BFT, BOS, LS, TAE was a good 6 point DD build. Gone.

 

 


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest benefit with the new skill tree is that the final skills (the ones that used to be 5 points) are now accessible a lot earlier, evening the playfield with people with captains with more points. A 10 points captain can now have CE (or Manual secondaries, or Air Supremacy), when they'd need a 15 points captain before! These staple skills will now be available to newer players. This is a good change overall.

 

I think you're also right in the effect it will have on some builds or ships (your example of a Cleveland taking CE before AFT), because there are now a lot more interesting choices at 4 points than there were before. The builds were pretty much all the same before, but now there are different ways to build a captain. It's also possible to quickly (as soon as the 11th point) start getting skills of tiers you already took (if you go for a 4 points skill first of course). Similarly, we could see a lot more secondary build BBs in lower tiers and newer CVs should have a better chance at fighting more experienced CVs (Air Supremacy).

 

However, I'm not sure concealment will be that much a problem in lower tier. At that tier, cruisers are still able to be more aggressive. Furthermore, the new 2 catapult planes skill will help with torpedo spotting. Lastly, I think a lot of people will be tempted to take the new RPF and it should counter the concealment a little.

 

Good points.  I could well be projecting - assuming that what I plan to do is what the general population will do.  But given 10 points, how many cruiser drivers will take RPF as their first skill?  Sure, some will, but how many - 10%?  20%?  In my humble experience, what mid-tier cruisers fear most is being nuked by battleships, not DDs they have trouble finding, so I'm guessing that CE is going to remain the first choice more often than not and trying to extrapolate the specific mid-tier ecology that will result.

 

(Although it should be said that I'm thinking about random - ranked might be a different ballgame in the T6 levels.)


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well reasoned, OP. I agree that people are focusing on these skills in a vacuum and not thinking about how they affect the choices one has to make, or how that affects the environment.

 

For example, I think the CV population will end up quite happy. BFT costs more, AFT/ManAA compete with CE/ManSec now, and many captains will sacrifice AA for the new hotness of RPF. Meanwhile, strike planes are more resilient, and Air Supremacy is easy to reach. This will allow CVs to better do their job of controlling the BB population. Vigilance is also a much harder pick, narrowing the reaction time even for BBs that have RPF to give them a crutch.


1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No,  it doesn't.  You do not have to be spotted to be the closest ship to your target.

 

"Shows the direction of the nearest enemy ship. The enemy player will be alerted that a bearing was taken on their ship. This skill will not work if a player is playing an aircraft carrier." That is, verbatim, the quote from the picture on the 0.6.0 announcement page.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things I don't like is that level 1 and 2 skills are junk. Used to have a good low tier build on these skills, no more. BFT, BOS, LS, TAE was a good 6 point DD build. Gone.

 

 

The point of skills isn't to have 6 Tier 1 and 2 skills. It's like Tier I in the tech tree: the ships are JUNK at Tier I (excluding the Black Swan, I think I scored more citadels in that thing than I have in anything else to date.) The developers are trying to make skill aspirations be like ship aspirations: you have to work at them to succeed.

 

What I hope that they don't do is that **** they pulled in WoT where re-specializing a commander now costs only gold (you can't just slide the commander in there and retrain them over time, IIRC, nor is there a credits option for retraining).


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Air Supremacy needed to be easier to reach.  It was basically an I-Win button if all other factors were equal but one captain had it and the other didn't.  


0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.