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Aduial

Commander Skills 0.6.0

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(Copied from my post in Pigeon of War's feedback and thoughts thread.) 

 

A few thoughts about the upcoming skill tree changes:

 

1. Radio Position Finding. 

 

Skilled players will see little benefit from this skill, and therefore will not use it. However, unskilled BB players who drive in straight lines with little maneuvering will find it much easier to predict where the torps will be coming from. Therefore, many players from the lower end of the skill-spectrum will use this skill. Since this skill can mean the difference between being deleted or taking minor damage for poor players, this will arguably be better than AFT, Manual AA, or other equal-tier skills for the aforementioned players.

 

So the effectiveness of stealth-torping changes as follows:

Against good players: Poor -> Poor (no change)

Against bad players: Good -> Poor (nerf). 

 

While we don't know how much negative impact this will have on USN, IJN, and KM DDs, no one can deny that it will be a nerf. But I think the concerns of the DD players are being ignored, and all i've heard from the Devs on this skill is that "this update is not about class nerfs/buffs", even though it is clear that this particular skill will have a significant negative impact on a lot DDs. IMO, the impact of this skill on the game has not been thought through enough. 

 

2. HE/AP (Can't remember the new name for it, sorry.)

About this skill, I don't think it is going to have a good impact on the game. This change is not beneficial at all for most ships, but for some, they give a huge advantage. Take the Akizuki as an example. The only thing that's keeping this ship's insane DPM in check is the poor penetration power of its 100mm HE. But once the HE/AP skill is added, it will melt any DD. Of course it will be weaker against BBs now, so overall its power balance is not changed much. However, I don't think it's a good idea to specialize a ship to a degree where it is absolutely dominant in one area, even if it may not be very strong in others. 

Again, I don't think this skill is necessarily overpowered, it's just it doesn't seem like a captain skill that will make the game more enjoyable.

 

3. Fog Expert

I think everyone agrees that we don't need any more smoke in this game. Yet we're getting a skill that increases the area a smoke screen covers? I just don't think it makes sense, and it may encourage even more smoke camping (which is necessary in some situations, but the amount that we are getting is a bit over the top.). 

 

4. Two is Better

While I like the idea, I think that it could potentially have a negative impact on some aspects of the game. With 2 captapult fighters flying around, torpedoes will be too easily detected. 

I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would be better if only one of the planes could spot. Or alternatively, change the skill so that instead of two planes, you get 1 with double the DPS. Or perhaps catapult fighters could lose the ability to spot if this skill is taken. 

 

5. BoS and BFT

While I think these skills were too powerful to be one point skills, three points is a bit too much. I know there isn't any room in the 2 point skills row, but 2 points is a much more suitable cost for these skills.

 

Please leave a comment below!

Edited by Aduial

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I'll wait to cry wolf when we have realistic amount of data to compare with today's statistics. I'm skeptical that the impact of the skills will be meaningful enough to reduce/boost the performance of players


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I'll wait to cry wolf when we have realistic amount of data to compare with today's statistics. I'm skeptical that the impact of the skills will be meaningful enough to reduce/boost the performance of players

 

It depends on how many people take the skills. If only a few people take a skill, it will not have a noticeable impact on the overall stats, no matter how powerful it may be. 

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BFT should be a 2 point skill if they wanna move it but no changes at all to it's AA buff. The fact they are buffing it's AA ability to me tells them A: They just want carriers to die, AA is already way too high especially at high tiers (why do you think the lowest are flooded  with CV's by comparison), B: They have no idea what they are doing in regards to anything remotely related to CV balance, or C: they don't care at all and just do things, balance be damned.

 

Before/early this year they said CV captains would be pleasantly surprised by the changes they'd make this year. Surprised, yes, pleasantly, no. Every leak I hear bodes ill for 2017 as well. Buffing BFT will nerf CV's yet again, their apparently talking putting GZ as a premium that will likely sink any chance of a full German line on top of reducing it to a crap underpowered tier 8, a less crap but underpowered tier 7, or an OP tier 6 unless they completely throw history out the window, And the only rework were getting is UI... yay /sarcasm.

 

The only remote positive is UK CV's apparently next year.... and seeing whether they supplant IJN because they have a decent mix but better fighters or USN because they have better options and can still fight IJN while hitting harder than USN with torps.


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HEAP is definitely for Akizuki and only Akizuki (or any DD with <114mm main guns that sees T8+)

19mm * 6 = 114mm

 

IMO, it's not worth taking HEAP for 105mm secondaries on German BBs, because of skill cost and the fact you WANT them to start fires.


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I'm less worried about the radio thing as I myself won't use it on any of my ships. I have no issue dodging torps and it won't help me if I make mistake on my own.

 

I'm more concern about the BFT and 2 is better. As these two skill changes are physically affecting the performance of DDs, torps and BBs. I being a BB main myself feel that Batttleships are already powerful enough and those destroyers and even cruisers really needs some more love, but not the other way round...

Edited by Takamachi_Nanoha_sg

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IMO, it's not worth taking HEAP for 105mm secondaries on German BBs, because of skill cost and the fact you WANT them to start fires.

 

Interesting thing is, DE now applies to secondaries. I wonder if anyone will take DE for that. I personally wouldn't though. 

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HEAP is definitely for Akizuki and only Akizuki (or any DD with <114mm main guns that sees T8+)

19mm * 6 = 114mm

 

IMO, it's not worth taking HEAP for 105mm secondaries on German BBs, because of skill cost and the fact you WANT them to start fires.

 

Actually could be useful for something like the German Cruisers that have already outstanding AP performance but piss poor HE performance.

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Coming from a DD player, RPF is obviously not a welcome change to me but I don't think it's going to be as terrible as many people are imagining.  Assuming there isn't a maximum range for this skill (and no mention of one is made), this is going to an "always on" indicator which isn't really going to be very useful except in highly specific scenarios.  Poor players won't really gain much from it for the same reason they don't gain much from the situational awareness skill that everyone is given--they'll ignore it most of the time, and won't react properly even when they do see it (how often do you see battleships get deleted by a torpedo salvo fired out of the smoke cloud 6km away from them that's been pumping HE into their superstructure for a full minute already?).  I think it will be far more beneficial to good players, and specifically to gunboat DDs who can use it to track down enemy DDs in early cap contests.  As far as countering it goes, the devs are saying that an alert will be shown to any ship which is currently being "pinged" by this skill, which a good IJN DD captain could actually use to get a gauge on how far away the enemy DD is (and their general direction) without actually spotting it.

 

I would be okay with 2>1 if the freaking spotting planes went way when their ship was destroyed.  Even in a Japanese DD whose torpedoes can be seen coming from (literally) more than a mile away, who barely has enough speed to outrun a battleship, and who can be spotted via radar through a volcanic peak, I can honestly say that the most annoying thing in this game for me is being "spotted" by a scout plane 5 minutes after I sank the ship that launched it.

 

Fog expert: this one was obviously intended as a "sorry, our bad!" for RN cruisers, but it's going to predictably backfire when DDs manage to cover the entire B cap with smoke early in a game.  Or actually, in that case maybe they intended it as a buff to German DDs.

 

Looking at the proposed new skill tree as a whole, tier 1 once again becomes a no-brainer first choice of PM, followed by 2>1 for ships which carry fighters and/or maybe Incoming Alert for sniping ships.  For destroyers, tier 2 is still going to be LS first, followed by EM for Soviet DDs and probably German DDs, and Fog Expert for USN & IJN destroyers.  At T3 most IJN & German boats go TE first, followed by SI so they have enough speed boosts to stay in the fight/hyrdos to see the fight; USN & Soviet destroyers go BFT followed by DE.  At tier 4, every non-Russian DD still goes with CE first, followed by SE (USN), RPF (most IJN, gun oriented IJN DDs go for AFT instead), or HEAP (German).  The Russians stick with AFT like before, then tack on SE much earlier than they can now.  I don't feel like typing out all the other classes right this minute, but they're generally going to be standard picks as well.

 

End result?  There is no more variation between commander builds than there is now, but more people will have access to more powerful captain skills sooner.  I, for one, welcome the chance to see what a T4 match will be like when all 6 DDs on each team are rocking CE (except no, I don't).


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4. Two is Better

While I like the idea, I think that it could potentially have a negative impact on some aspects of the game. With 2 captapult fighters flying around at an increased speed, torpedoes will be too easily detected. 

I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would be better if only one of the planes could spot. Or alternatively, change the skill so that instead of two planes, you get 1 with double the DPS. Or perhaps catapult fighters could lose the ability to spot if this skill is taken. 

 

This skill decreases plane speed by 20% not increase.

 

Source.

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/109557-060-public-test/page__st__20__p__2675972#entry2675972


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I suffer from a mental illness, pyromania, and as a result I can't help but feel sad they nerfed DE...even if it's ultimately not going to change much.  :(  


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Thing I don't like is the fact Jack Of All Trades is now 100% worthless... Ticks me off too. Might as well just replace the skill with something else. I think they are nerfing it on purpose. Because if anyone understood the value of that skill like I do... + The flag = 20% reduction of cool downs was very good. 


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The fact Vigilance now boosts your hydro range as well... That's going to be very strong, especially for the Germans...


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ah yes, another nerf to torpedoes because of morons who whine and can't figure out WASD hacks.  


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I currently don't have enough skill points in any of my captains to keep skillsets that fit my ships/playstyle, under the new system.

 

A year of grinding captains to be replaced by another year of grinding.

 

Sorry, but I can't get excited about that.


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I currently don't have enough skill points in any of my captains to keep skillsets that fit my ships/playstyle, under the new system.

 

A year of grinding captains to be replaced by another year of grinding.

 

Sorry, but I can't get excited about that.

 

Dragon flags are your friend.

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I am not sure why they decided to rework the entire skill system. I was not aware it was broken to begin with.  I am at a loss for the moment.  I will reserve my judgement until I see how it all works out.  They might change some stuff around after the public test anyway.

 


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It's literally my nightmare.

 

More smoke and a nerf to Destroyers...

 

I found spot planes annoying before, now we get to deal with even more?

 

wth?


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I am not sure why they decided to rework the entire skill system. I was not aware it was broken to begin with.  I am at a loss for the moment.  I will reserve my judgement until I see how it all works out.  They might change some stuff around after the public test anyway.

 

 

"Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet." - Scott Adams Edited by BunnyOfTheFleet

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It's literally my nightmare.

 

More smoke and a nerf to Destroyers...

 

I found spot planes annoying before, now we get to deal with even more?

 

wth?

Slak - I know u in game and from forums.  

 

More smoke - as it's a skill that u expend points on, not worried about 20%.  Smoke has been slammed with radar and perma-hydro, I can get behind an option to buff.

 

2 Spot planes - I hate them too when in DD, but the ships carried multiple irl so why not?  Again, you have to burn points which means decisions.  I'd like to try it.  In general, torps are becoming very hard to use effectively except in knife fights.  

 

I like buffs when I can still feel like I'm in a WW2 naval ship as opposed to a kids arcade with "this way to enemy" arrows.


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Looking at the proposed new skill tree as a whole, tier 1 once again becomes a no-brainer first choice of PM, followed by 2>1 for ships which carry fighters and/or maybe Incoming Alert for sniping ships.  For destroyers, tier 2 is still going to be LS first, followed by EM for Soviet DDs and probably German DDs, and Fog Expert for USN & IJN destroyers.  At T3 most IJN & German boats go TE first, followed by SI so they have enough speed boosts to stay in the fight/hyrdos to see the fight; USN & Soviet destroyers go BFT followed by DE.  At tier 4, every non-Russian DD still goes with CE first, followed by SE (USN), RPF (most IJN, gun oriented IJN DDs go for AFT instead), or HEAP (German).  The Russians stick with AFT like before, then tack on SE much earlier than they can now.  I don't feel like typing out all the other classes right this minute, but they're generally going to be standard picks as well.

 

End result?  There is no more variation between commander builds than there is now, but more people will have access to more powerful captain skills sooner.  I, for one, welcome the chance to see what a T4 match will be like when all 6 DDs on each team are rocking CE (except no, I don't).

 

How is getting to 19 points (required for all your imaginary DD builds) "much earlier"/"sooner"?


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"Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet." - Scott Adams

But sometimes, not doing anything is better than doing something wrong. I don't have a problem with the update in general, but some of the skills are poorly thought out.

 

How is getting to 19 points (required for all your imaginary DD builds) "much earlier"/"sooner"?

First of all, it was almost impossible to get 19 points before because the XP required for the 19th point was 9,999,999. Now it's a doable 300,000. Second, the XP level required for points 17 and 18 are lower as well. Getting to 15 points will be harder now, but after that it will be easier. 


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How is getting to 19 points (required for all your imaginary DD builds) "much earlier"/"sooner"?

 

Concealment expert (along with every other skill in the new fourth level) is going to be accessible with a 10 point captain.  Starting from scratch, moving the captain up as you grind new ships in a tier, and using only the silver option for retraining it takes what, about 50-60 games for an average player to hit 10 points on a given captain, far less for a good player and/or someone who gets full benefit from daily win bonuses, flags, etc.  So now you're going to be regularly seeing T4 & T5 ships run with the most powerful captain skills attached.

 

And that's not even getting into any captains which come with 10 points already, which is what you get whenever you pull a premium ship out of a santa container.


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