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Silevern

Infinitely frustrated at New York

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Hello,

 

Lately I've resumed grinding the New York and despite all efforts I'm just not getting any success in it. I paused grinding US BB back over the summer because it was the very first branch I ever did and I wanted to explore more so I played other nations and branches, and in this gap time I got the privilege of enjoying some excellent BB such as Warspite, König, and Bayern. Now that I'm back the New York feels pathetically lackluster and I keep getting 20K damage battles and/or defeats.

 

Any advice for this thing? I've put a Sierra Mike flag on, I use Artillery Plotting to compete with Kongo spam, but nothing seems to work. After having grinded the König the New York just feels like its ugly little brother.

 

~

Silevern

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Yeah, the NY is just a terrible ship.  Some might get it to work, but its like cutting a steak with a butter knife, its just plain not good at what its doing.

 

Its armor is crap, its accuracy is horrid, its reload is terrible, the traverse is slow as [edited], yeah, NY is terrible.  COmparing it to Konig?  Yeah, ive got a Scharn and dear god, the Germany ships make the US BBs feel like sinking row boats.

 

NY misses horribly even at 2km or less.  Ive done the ol' sailing ship drive by with this thing and it misses with 7 shots, bounces 2 and low damage pens with 1, every 3rd salvo, the other 2 its 6 misses, 2 bounces and 2 ricochets.

 

The NY and USN as a whole really needs a rework, despite all the things people say about them, they arent that good that im seeing. 

 

Armor is a lie, Scharn, THAT thing is well armored.  They just feel so inferior in every conceivable fashion.  Arizona, the best armored BB in the game for its tier and it gets lolpenned for 3000 every shot that hits it....even angled...meanwhile, the Scharn is bouncing 16 inch AP like its nothing, tanking Tirpitz guns and taking 704,000 potential damage a game.  Arizona is at 400k avg tanked.

Edited by KnightFandragon

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Hello,

 

Lately I've resumed grinding the New York and despite all efforts I'm just not getting any success in it. I paused grinding US BB back over the summer because it was the very first branch I ever did and I wanted to explore more so I played other nations and branches, and in this gap time I got the privilege of enjoying some excellent BB such as Warspite, König, and Bayern. Now that I'm back the New York feels pathetically lackluster and I keep getting 20K damage battles and/or defeats.

 

Any advice for this thing? I've put a Sierra Mike flag on, I use Artillery Plotting to compete with Kongo spam, but nothing seems to work. After having grinded the König the New York just feels like its ugly little brother.

 

~

Silevern

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/109300-the-stock-ny-has-ap-shells-on-par-with-mikasa-and-worse-than-kawachi/page__hl__%2Bnew+%2Byork+%2Bshells__fromsearch__1
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Without fxp'ing past the ship to get to New Mexico, the only thing to do is tough it out.

 

Never really like New York until AFTER  really learned how to play battleships.

 

Simple stuff; don't get greedy and try to use all your guns at once; that's just inviting citadels. Top speed is not always your friend; better to go with the flow at a slower speed if it lets you stay in a group, or if it keeps you from over-extending at getting focused. Learn to shoot at more than one target; if an enemy battleship is to the front; the shoot your forward guns at it, then retarget to some smalled enemy off to the side that may be trying to get on your flank. Sometimes it's better to shoot what you can while staying angled, then to risk everything by trying to shoot everything.

 

KEEP AN EYE ON THE MINI-MAP. Doing so and seeing the meerest flash of a possible enemy to your flank or rear can save you.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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I ground through the NY back when it could see T8 matches and I loved it, I rebought it a while back before I bought a Texas, the one issue I had was the same issue I had with the Konig, I was constantly put into T7 matches. Back then sure I saw some T8 matches but I also saw t3 matches and was often mid tier and that's where the ship shines, being bottom though makes her a hard fight.

 

That said don't fight alone, go with packs, don't be the first to be seen, hold your fire to the enemy is firing at your teammates, abuse WASD like a drunken redneck mad at his wife, don't sail in straight lines longer than you need to. Pick broadside targets, that might mean switching targets multiple times, if a enemy is turning hold your fire till he straightens up. Also in-between salvos look at your mini-map and pay attention to what they enemy and your allies are doing

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I can't speak for New York itself, but I sometimes take out her sister, the Texas (which is extremely close to being a clone of the New York herself, with one turret having slightly better clearance and having a LOT more short-range AA).

 

1) Know that with your horrid top speed of 21 kts, once you've picked a location, you're committed. So take a few extra moments to think where you're going before you move, or lead a push and try to rope some teammates in on it. Either way, don't go anywhere without your team. You're a big brick, and you play like one.

 

2) The armor's tough when you angle it properly. I can't give exact angles, but I generally find that the angles I give will not give clearance to one or two turrets (sadly, that's just how the USN built 'em). You cannot rely on the bow armor like a Konig can, since you'll be overmatched by any battleship-caliber gun in-game.

 

I find the New York class (well, Texas for me) to require a very deliberate play-style in general. Gather information, plod your way to the front, and commit to everything you do. If you're going to brawl, get the other person to shoot first at your angled side, then show them the full 10-gun broadside before resetting back into your angled position. Don't take shots unless you are fairly confident of being able to get some good damage out of it. NY doesn't flex well, so you've kind of got to learn to force the other side into playing your game.

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American battleships from tier 5 thru 7...dreadnoughts, has no speed to reach the battle nor the range to even reach into the battle. Even with Plotting room the NY is still hopelessly outranged and there's nothing that will help it go beyond 21 knots unless you can afford to use Sierra Mike every match, and that is likely not sustainable. Stock hull also mean that AA does not exist. Might as well forget about boosting speed as it's a lost cause. The 21 knots speed will persist in New Mexico (tier 6) and Colorado (tier 7) as well.

 

The lack of range will persist into the New Mexico (Very slightly better range when upgraded and slow reload means you only get 3 salvos with spotter) and only be partially gone with Colorado (up to 19km with Plotting room and FCS, temporarily up to 21km or so with spotter on, and that's only for 3-4 salvos with its 30-second reload). The dreadnought triad also stand pretty tall out of the water making them much easier to citadel compared to their shorter competitors, but starting from upgraded Mexico they get the all-or-nothing armor scheme going for them, but even then it can only do so much. Just quit now if you cannot stand any of these flaws, as you'll be stuck with those for quite some time. These dreadnoughts turn pretty tight and its shorter profiles may help them dodge torpedoes, though, so there IS something going for them.

 

Just steam ahead and shoot at everything you can reach...which is probably very limited unless the foes are clueless. Your max range is even lower than some cruisers (i.e. Königsberg) so closing the range is more or less your only option if you want a piece of action. With no speed to reach he battle or the range to reach into the battle, you can be stuck with rotting while doing nothing (or your comrades stole all your food) or die trying to do something. The main problem is finding the battle and reaching it in time...

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American battleships from tier 5 thru 7...dreadnoughts, has no speed to reach the battle nor the range to even reach into the battle. Even with Plotting room the NY is still hopelessly outranged and there's nothing that will help it go beyond 21 knots unless you can afford to use Sierra Mike every match, and that is likely not sustainable. Stock hull also mean that AA does not exist. Might as well forget about boosting speed as it's a lost cause. The 21 knots speed will persist in New Mexico (tier 6) and Colorado (tier 7) as well.

 

The lack of range will persist into the New Mexico (Very slightly better range when upgraded and slow reload means you only get 3 salvos with spotter) and only be partially gone with Colorado (up to 19km with Plotting room and FCS, temporarily up to 21km or so with spotter on, and that's only for 3-4 salvos with its 30-second reload). The dreadnought triad also stand pretty tall out of the water making them much easier to citadel compared to their shorter competitors, but starting from upgraded Mexico they get the all-or-nothing armor scheme going for them, but even then it can only do so much. Just quit now if you cannot stand any of these flaws, as you'll be stuck with those for quite some time. These dreadnoughts turn pretty tight and its shorter profiles may help them dodge torpedoes, though, so there IS something going for them.

 

Just steam ahead and shoot at everything you can reach...which is probably very limited unless the foes are clueless. Your max range is even lower than some cruisers (i.e. Königsberg) so closing the range is more or less your only option if you want a piece of action. With no speed to reach he battle or the range to reach into the battle, you can be stuck with rotting while doing nothing (or your comrades stole all your food) or die trying to do something. The main problem is finding the battle and reaching it in time...

 

It's not that their bad, it's just you don't know how to use them, you seemed to have struggled with them. That's fine if your not good with a particular line, but don't call then terrible because you can use them. It's like me calling the Cleveland a terrible ship, it isn't but I didn't mesh with it, doesn't mean it's the ships fault though

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I think I was one of the few who enjoyed the New York and kept her well into when I got to the Colorado.  Only sold her when the Texas came out.  Granted, this was back before the MatchMaker change absolutely decimated Tier 5 play but below is something I wrote to someone a while back who was having similar frustrations as your self. 

 

Do not go bow on.  Angling your ship is necessary.  Forget you have a Turret #3, keep your bow guns on target and swing your aft end out so that the back guns are just outside of target range.  Doing this gives you the best angle with your broadside armor versus your target.  Once they've fired at you, swing your back turrets out and on target, fire, then go back to being a slim lined target until you reload and they've fired again.  In an engagement you want to be reactionary to your opponent. 

 

Many battleships can set the pace and style of a battle, with the New York you're going to be reacting to them doing this.  For instance against an enemy IJN Battleship they're going to want to turn tail and open the range against you with your sub par firing range.  Long range fire is also a bad thing for the New York's belt armor.  Your reaction to this is three possible methods

 

1) Continue the chase, but eventually the speed of the Kongo will open the distance too much and his more accurate range guns will out distance and out damage due to more shells landing

2) Turn and dis-engage, but this is pretty much the opposite of scenario one, you've got more guns capable of firing to the rear then the front though so while it's still not an ideal situation, more shells on target can help.  Plus side, speed drop when turning to get your forward turret on target, if the IJN BB is chasing you, speed drop will suddenly make him close faster before he can realize it. 

3) Dis-Engage for hard cover.  A good IJN BB player will make you fight on his terms, so you have to take the option away from him.  Find an island and put it in between, neither of you can fire, but in his haste to get a firing angle, he may close the distance to you, which is what you want

 

When engaging IJN BB's you want to close in and go close range with them.  your layout and armor allows you to shine. 

 

However, things change versus a German Battleship.  German battleships are insane 5km or closer.  Secondary guns firing a mix of AP and HE will net fires and disables on you, all the while you'll probably be outside of secondary range for your ship to return fire.  You want to close so you're not at super long range, but you have an advantage over a German BB at 6km out to 10km or so due to their lack of main gun accuracy.  However, in the NY you'll find yourself up against the König, which is similar to the New York in layout and turret configuration, however she's got an insane amount of belt armor.  She reloads faster then you do but her shells don't hit as hard as yours so it turns into a war of attrition and who can do the better damage while angling properly.

 

Key point, if she's angled, aim for the upper belt not the water line.  Don't let her closer then 6km, and if you find everything bouncing, use your HE to burn it down, your HE is better then the German HE.  Don't go bow on because they'll punch through, you want them to shoot at your belt line, not your bow

 

She's just one of the ships where you can't force her to play the way you want, you have to adjust your playstyle to her. 

 

Edited by vonKaiser

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I think I was one of the few who enjoyed the New York and kept her well into when I got to the Colorado.  Only sold her when the Texas came out.  Granted, this was back before the MatchMaker change absolutely decimated Tier 5 play but below is something I wrote to someone a while back who was having similar frustrations as your self. 

 

Do not go bow on.  Angling your ship is necessary.  Forget you have a Turret #3, keep your bow guns on target and swing your aft end out so that the back guns are just outside of target range.  Doing this gives you the best angle with your broadside armor versus your target.  Once they've fired at you, swing your back turrets out and on target, fire, then go back to being a slim lined target until you reload and they've fired again.  In an engagement you want to be reactionary to your opponent. 

 

Many battleships can set the pace and style of a battle, with the New York you're going to be reacting to them doing this.  For instance against an enemy IJN Battleship they're going to want to turn tail and open the range against you with your sub par firing range.  Long range fire is also a bad thing for the New York's belt armor.  Your reaction to this is three possible methods

 

1) Continue the chase, but eventually the speed of the Kongo will open the distance too much and his more accurate range guns will out distance and out damage due to more shells landing

2) Turn and dis-engage, but this is pretty much the opposite of scenario one, you've got more guns capable of firing to the rear then the front though so while it's still not an ideal situation, more shells on target can help.  Plus side, speed drop when turning to get your forward turret on target, if the IJN BB is chasing you, speed drop will suddenly make him close faster before he can realize it. 

3) Dis-Engage for hard cover.  A good IJN BB player will make you fight on his terms, so you have to take the option away from him.  Find an island and put it in between, neither of you can fire, but in his haste to get a firing angle, he may close the distance to you, which is what you want

 

When engaging IJN BB's you want to close in and go close range with them.  your layout and armor allows you to shine. 

 

However, things change versus a German Battleship.  German battleships are insane 5km or closer.  Secondary guns firing a mix of AP and HE will net fires and disables on you, all the while you'll probably be outside of secondary range for your ship to return fire.  You want to close so you're not at super long range, but you have an advantage over a German BB at 6km out to 10km or so due to their lack of main gun accuracy.  However, in the NY you'll find yourself up against the König, which is similar to the New York in layout and turret configuration, however she's got an insane amount of belt armor.  She reloads faster then you do but her shells don't hit as hard as yours so it turns into a war of attrition and who can do the better damage while angling properly.

 

Key point, if she's angled, aim for the upper belt not the water line.  Don't let her closer then 6km, and if you find everything bouncing, use your HE to burn it down, your HE is better then the German HE.  Don't go bow on because they'll punch through, you want them to shoot at your belt line, not your bow

 

She's just one of the ships where you can't force her to play the way you want, you have to adjust your playstyle to her. 

 

Konig vs New York?  Konig wins hands down.  Better armor, faster turrets, better secondaries.  Yeah, the Konig beats the crapout of the NY......Konig will pen the crapout of the NY while the NY is busy lolbouncing its [edited]off and being lit on fire. 

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I was on New York until I got enough free xp to get New Mexico. One strategy is to think about the New Mexico. But I felt like giving up on New York. It's bad Wyoming is better.

 

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I was on New York until I got enough free xp to get New Mexico. One strategy is to think about the New Mexico. But I felt like giving up on New York. It's bad Wyoming is better.

 

 

That's because t5 is all the Wyoming will see, it used to see T6 (and T7 in OBT), talk about sad being in those matches

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i've always said this the New York is absolute garbage,but you're always going to hear some forum know it all say otherwise.

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Yeah, im grinding the NY again to try and just try to finish it out to get the NM.  I have like 200 100% camo, so figure ill try to tough it out.  The New York, even after all ive learned with this game and improved, is just a [edited]ship.  It gets heavy damage on every shot, its guns cant pen, and its guns plain dont hit, even at close range.  Ive been in coops brawling at less then 10km and its absolutely hilarious to watch all 10 rounds just veer off from the target for no good reason.  I mean, my hit rate with it is 40%, my AZ is 41%, so my aim is fine, ive had many, many, many salvos straddle the enemy ship at 6km away for no good reason.

 

Its even more hilarious to watch all 10 rounds LOLBOUNCE off the SIDE of a broadside Cruiser from 7km or less.  Then that same Cruiser commences to deliver 12,000 dmg even while its angled. 

 

Just last night, I caught an Izuzichi full on broadside from 7km away.  I put about 50 rounds into its flat [edited]broadside and didnt kill it.  I got 1 Citadel, a few good hits, but everything else bounced.   Meanwhile, that thing just lolpenned my ship and down I go......

 

New York could use some love....those who say they love it, how, HOW do you fall in love with a ship that bad!?

Edited by KnightFandragon

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Konig vs New York?  Konig wins hands down.  Better armor, faster turrets, better secondaries.  Yeah, the Konig beats the crapout of the NY......Konig will pen the crapout of the NY while the NY is busy lolbouncing its [edited]off and being lit on fire. 

 

I'm not saying the New York is better.  I'm giving the OP tips on how to deal with an enemy battleship that he'll be facing often and hopefully beat them, or if not that, at least drop the HP of him so the friendly team has less of a health pool to deal with, as opposed to just saying GG and quitting back to the port.  If the Konig knows his angles, HE to burn him down is always an option. 

 

If he doesn't angle, granted you're still not gonna citadel him with the armor, but, the secret to beating a German ship is to stay out of range of the secondaries and stay at a long enough range where the terrible dispersion comes into effect on the main guns, and pound AP shells through the upper belt, not the waterline.  Full broadside of 33% penetrating hits still adds up and will make an aggressive German BB player suddenly and suspiciously cautious. 

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I'm not saying the New York is better.  I'm giving the OP tips on how to deal with an enemy battleship that he'll be facing often and hopefully beat them, or if not that, at least drop the HP of him so the friendly team has less of a health pool to deal with, as opposed to just saying GG and quitting back to the port.  If the Konig knows his angles, HE to burn him down is always an option. 

 

If he doesn't angle, granted you're still not gonna citadel him with the armor, but, the secret to beating a German ship is to stay out of range of the secondaries and stay at a long enough range where the terrible dispersion comes into effect on the main guns, and pound AP shells through the upper belt, not the waterline.  Full broadside of 33% penetrating hits still adds up and will make an aggressive German BB player suddenly and suspiciously cautious. 

 

Problem is the Konig wont miss, the NY will.  THen, if it doesnt miss, it will shatter and bounce.  Maybe 2 in 10 will give you 1030 dmg.  Then if you dont use your #3, which just helps to make the ship even worse, its 1/8 will do 1030. 

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Problem is the Konig wont miss, the NY will.  THen, if it doesnt miss, it will shatter and bounce.  Maybe 2 in 10 will give you 1030 dmg.  Then if you dont use your #3, which just helps to make the ship even worse, its 1/8 will do 1030. 

 

I dunno, when i was in the Konig accuracy was not something that stood out to me lol.  Keep it at an arms length, outside the secondary around 10-12km and both ships are going to be slinging splashers.  As far as the shatters and bounces, well yeah if you aim at the waterline and the citadel.  Aim higher.  Upper belt line, where the side guns for the secondary battery are located and the superstructure.  Problem is everyone up until the German line released was taught Waterline = Profit and damage.  Which, on a German BB just won't work.    But if you go for the 33% hits as opposed to the waterline (Bigger target as well, instead of losing shells in the water) you can really change the scenario with one timed salvo. 

 

Not a NY or Konig but one of the few examples I remember off the top of my head.

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The NY can be a pretty good ship, you need to exploit its advantages. It's got two more guns than the Kongo, which is nice, so it can be fairly potent in close range. I haven't played the NY lately, but I do have a Texas which is basically the same except with better AA. So in a match with no carriers, the Texas is by all means the same as the NY except that it can get all its guns firing while at a slightly better angle. The NY's armor can be very good if you angle it right. The armor certainly beats the Kongo and can block most guns of its own tier. I think it's just not quite as easy to play as the other BBs of its tier. One will eventually get the hang of it.

 

Edited by Edselman
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The NY can be a pretty good ship, you need to exploit its advantages. It's got two more guns than the Kongo, which is nice, so it can be fairly potent in close range. I haven't played the NY lately, but I do have a Texas which is basically the same except with better AA. So in a match with no carriers, the Texas is by all means the same as the NY except that it can get all its guns firing while at a slightly better angle. The NY's armor can be very good if you angle it right. The armor certainly beats the Kongo and can block most guns of its own tier. I think it's just quite as easy to play as the other BBs of its tier. One will eventually get the hang of it. 

 

 

Yeah 2 more guns then the Kongo, if you like being citadel hit.  It turns like a sea slug, is inaccurate as crap, even at close range.

 

While, yeah, my last 30 games in it managed to put its stats in Coops at a reasonable rate, and I did ok with it, im glad im done with it and past it.  Just like most tanks in WOT, its a ship im glad im done with and will never touch again. 

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Just reiterating here...

 

1) stay angled

2) Ignore Turret 3

3) talk to your team, stay with a group. Low tier bbs are mincemeat solo/yolo

 

 

Otherwise, she's not a terrible boat in engagments of -11k. If you feel you can safely bring all guns to bear on something getting too close, go for it. Just stay aware of what might be watching you as you do this. I've been taking advantage of the exp modifier past few days and am really close now to NM. It goes faster than you think. 

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