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MJPIA

The stock NY has AP shells on par with Mikasa and worse than Kawachi

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While browsing GM3D I stumbled across the differences between the stock and upgraded shells on the NY.

IHS0jX0.png?1

This made me curious enough to do some pointblank tests in the training room against a broadside Yamato.

 

 OHghwSB.png?1

WX55SYU.png?1

Here we have Mikasa which while aiming at the waterline is perfectly capable of putting two rounds against its armor belt, one through the deck above the belt and one overpen through the superstructure because lol dispersion but is unable to penetrate Yamato's armor belt.

 SAbqi9C.png

Stock SC

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Nassau with its 11" guns which also is perfectly capable of citadeling Yamato without issue.

 

 GyseNPW.png?1

And then we have the stock New York, 9 hits on Yamato's armor belt, 9 shatters.

You can try over and over with the same results.

Those stock 14" shells are worse and have less pen than every other BB other than Mikasa.

Which ultimately doesn't make too much of a difference in game since no one is running around in the a hull on purpose but for those beginners who don't have the free xp to skip it engaging other BB's can be pretty painful.

 

Are there any other ships in the game that have such a drastic difference in Krupp values and penetration between the stock and upgraded shells?

Edited by MJPIA
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I'm going to give you an upvote for the work but you could have summarized without the tests.


 

"Stock battleships suck. Do not play them."

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I'm going to give you an upvote for the work but you could have summarized without the tests.

 

 

"Stock battleships suck. Do not play them."

 

While true I was already curious which ended up spiralling into a bunch of tests.

"Ok those stock shells suck but can they Pen the Yamato's armor belt?

Okay they can't, but can the Mikasa?

Nope she can't either, how about the Kawachi?

Ah she can, can the Nassau?

Yup"

 

One way or another I was doing these so may as well share.

Edited by MJPIA

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Couple that with the insane Match Making that puts the New York and Texas into Tier VII matches and you have a pair of almost useless ships.

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The real question is why play a Stock NY?

 

Also worth mentioning is how many games does it take to get to her Upgraded Hull? 5-10?

 

Nearly 10k games and I can positively say that I have never, not once played by in her stock form.....

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The real question is why play a Stock NY?

 

Also worth mentioning is how many games does it take to get to her Upgraded Hull? 5-10?

 

Nearly 10k games and I can positively say that I have never, not once played by in her stock form.....

 

Counter-Question - Why is the IJN line having their terrible stock hulls removed while the NY, NM, and CO all still have to suffer/grind/Pay through theirs? Not everyone has a load of XP to skip the A hull.
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Couple that with the insane Match Making that puts the New York and Texas into Tier VII matches and you have a pair of almost useless ships.

 

Well, Texas has the same guns and shells as top-hull New York so this doesn't really apply to Texas.

 

This is only in reference to stock New York.

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo

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Counter-Question - Why is the IJN line having their terrible stock hulls removed while the NY, NM, and CO all still have to suffer/grind/Pay through theirs? Not everyone has a load of XP to skip the A hull.

 

Because Americans will throw their wallets at a paywall to play the ships they read/watched as children.

 

Though... the ultimate Paywall in game is Stock Izumo and the carrot on the end of the Stick is the Tomato, worth it. USN gets the T9.5 Montana....

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Because Americans will throw their wallets at a paywall to play the ships they read/watched as children.

 

Though... the ultimate Paywall in game is Stock Izumo and the carrot on the end of the Stick is the Tomato, worth it. USN gets the T9.5 Montana....

 

Montana is a perfectly serviceable tier 10 and I find, as a Yamato owner, that people who claim Montana can't compete with Yamato are exaggerating.

 

Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo

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Because Americans will throw their wallets at a paywall to play the ships they read/watched as children.

 

Though... the ultimate Paywall in game is Stock Izumo and the carrot on the end of the Stick is the Tomato, worth it. USN gets the T9.5 Montana....

 

They at least gave Izumo the upgraded shells for its stock hull. It's every bit as good as Iowa now, which isn't saying much.

 

 

 

Montana is a perfectly serviceable tier 10 and I find, as a Yamato owner, that people who claim Montana can't compete with Yamato are exaggerating.

 

Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

 

The deck armor buff helped it a lot in terms of actually being able to tank damage. GK is just a huge target with a lot of HP that generally survives long enough to do some damage.

 

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Montana is a perfectly serviceable tier 10 and I find, as a Yamato owner, that people who claim Montana can't compete with Yamato are exaggerating.

 

Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

"As a Yamato owner"

*Clears throat*

I find GK OP. I just don't complain as I am but a lone voice. Plus, GK has large superstructures and is a bigger target.

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Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

 

I think most people have some reservations about how dominant the entire KM BB line is right now.  In some tiers they are over-matching the IJN BBs by greater margins than the IJN ever over-matched the USN ships.

Edited by SCygnus

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Montana is a perfectly serviceable tier 10 and I find, as a Yamato owner, that people who claim Montana can't compete with Yamato are exaggerating.

 

Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

 

The inclusion of the play style that Bis/Fred/Gross represent is an issue that I personally have with the game, though I don't think it is shared by many.

 

They have the ability to be played incredibly poorly and still have an immense impact on a match.

 

But.... People want Battleships to push, Yolo caps and still stay alive, to me...its not that simple. 

 

German Battleships T8+ can Yolo caps, wreck DDs as they do very little but get squished and the Battleship walks away with not much more than a limp.

 

Put two equally skilled players in Yamato and Monty and let them go at it and Yamato will win more than not, to me thats an issue.

 

I still want a Monty though, dont get me wrong... Problem is I dont feel like grinding out Iowas massive Citadel...

Edited by slak__

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Nearly 10k games and I can positively say that I have never, not once played by in her stock form.....

 

Only ships I think I actually did that with were some of my beginning ships, and then the German BBs and DDs, and the RN cruisers, Those three lines were the first ones I deliberately choose to grind through, without skipping anything.

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Actually I take back what I said earlier, Izumo is doing better than Iowa now by every metric but plane shootdown rate.

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Actually I take back what I said earlier, Izumo is doing better than Iowa now by every metric but plane shootdown rate.

 

Could this be a symptom of players who played well in Iowa just moving to Missouri, which is nearly identical in performance (forward bulkhead notwithstanding) but rewards good play far more?

 

Fewer good players in the ship and the same number of average-to-bad players will pull the averages down.

Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo

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Actually I take back what I said earlier, Izumo is doing better than Iowa now by every metric but plane shootdown rate.

 

Yeah...

 

Iowa is made out of Marshmallows...

 

Her Stock hull is arguably worse than Izumos, only played it on the PT though,,,

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Could this be a symptom of players who played well in Iowa just moving to Missouri, which is nearly identical in performance (forward bulkhead notwithstanding) but rewards good play far more?

 

Fewer good players in the ship and the same number of average-to-bad players will pull the averages down.

 

Or because better players are dropping the line in favor of the KMS battleships, especially given how powerful FDG is.

 

I don't know too many people in the population of USN BB players who actually dropped for the Missouri, since it didn't fix the primary issue of Iowa, that being the stupid fake citadel height. I know I haven't played my Iowa since I got Bismarck, and I usually just use NC instead when my division wants to run tier 9.

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Could this be a symptom of players who played well in Iowa just moving to Missouri, which is nearly identical in performance (forward bulkhead notwithstanding) but rewards good play far more?

 

Fewer good players in the ship and the same number of average-to-bad players will pull the averages down.

 

That's actually a rather damning statement about Iowa's current balance if true - if only the best of the best could keep it from being worse than one of the most detested IJN BBs.

 

Iowa is extremely punishing of any mistake in angling and god help you if you are ever forced to turn.

 

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That's actually a rather damning statement about Iowa's current balance if true - if only the best of the best could keep it from being worse than one of the most detested IJN BBs.

 

Iowa is extremely punishing of any mistake in angling and god help you if you are ever forced to turn.

 

 

Comparatively, look at Missouri's performance without bad players dragging it down. Best performer bar non in tier 9.

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Montana is a perfectly serviceable tier 10 and I find, as a Yamato owner, that people who claim Montana can't compete with Yamato are exaggerating.

 

Meanwhile Kurfurst is actually performing just as good as Yamato and I don't see anyone complaining about her.

 

​In a cruiser heavy match and in CV matches, yes the Montana competes. Against real BBs though, she's utter garbage.

 

​Also, Sh!towa is also garbage, and there is no reason to play her OR Misery. Every single IJN BB starting with Nagato, is superior to the Iowa/Misery. When I want easy mode, I break out my IJN BBs.

Edited by Mavairo

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​In a cruiser heavy match and in CV matches, yes the Montana competes. Against real BBs though, she's utter garbage.

 

​Also, Sh!towa is also garbage, and there is no reason to play her OR Misery. Every single IJN BB starting with Nagato, is superior to the Iowa/Misery. When I want easy mode, I break out my IJN BBs.

 

Being unable to cit-pen Kurfurst doesn't stop me from doing 10-20k damage per salvo in standard pens.

 

What's stopping Montana from doing the same to Yamato?

 

Stop trying to pen the belt and angled bow armor-- aim higher. Yamato has a very tall, easily hit superstructure.

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