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ErichTopp_U552

The Amagi or the North Carolina?

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I have been researching the stock data, watching Utubes, trying to decide which tier VIII BB to invest in. From what I see, the NC has uber AA defense, huge dispersion and tough armor. Amagi, pretty much the opposite. I have been playing more IJN BB's simply because they have range and can rack in some nice hits from 10-12km without getting slaughtered.

 

All the info I've seen is older intel. I would like some current objective input from folks who have had experience with these ships. All assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

 

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I think the current opinion is 

 

BISMARCK.

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Question really is...what's your end game?  Yamato or Montana?

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North Carolina has longer range than Amagi and with the range upgrade it can get 27 km range. NC is more versatile than amagi

 

Having 20km range on a BB is useful, but when you stress more range than that it has me worried you may not be getting close enough to the enemy to make effective use of the guns. North Carolina is the ship you do not want to sit back and snipe with, Amagi has more reason to.

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I'm not planning (at this time) to go past T8. I have run up the IJN and USN ladder to T7's. I have found that a medium aggressive play works for both (ie: 7-10 km.) The long range shots are pointless and neither the Nagato or Colorado are great brawlers, decent damage but die quick...but I have had several up close and personals with the Nagato and shot my way through it. (I should throw in the fact that I play mostly Co-op. I got fed up with the team mechanics in Random and really only do randoms to quick build XP and coin)

 

I'm kind of leaning to the North Carolina. Will require adjustment to play-style.

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LOL no question, Amagi.  She's fast enough to not get run over easily like the Tier VII and lower BBs by Ze Germans.  She has the best BB gunnery this side of Yamato, which means she can apply her power over more possible ranges than super-specialized, short ranged Secondary-focused builds.  Battleships do the bulk of their damage with Main Battery.  Amagi has great guns.  She also leads to Yamato.

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I like the NC better -- it's a more versatile ship. Range is similar, accuracy is similar, neither ship can show broadside without getting citadel, and while the NC is not fast, it's the first USN BB which is fast enough.

 

But, having 6 guns forward really helps in bow-on fights, and being able to go bow-on in a brawl can help the NC prevail against torpedo-armed opponents, or against ships with superior secondaries. The concealment is also great, and allows you to move into position safely, then reveal yourself when you are ready to show your strongest armor. It's got a very high skill ceiling, with a lot of different tricks you can use.

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The only real advantages the Amagi has over NC is that it is like 1.3 knots faster and gets a TDS rating much higher than it deserves. Other than that, NC pretty much outclasses it in everything else. The Amagi may have 1 more gun, but the 16" on the NC are better because they fire much more destructive and better penetrating shells, the Mk 8 Super Heavy shell which weighed 2,700 pounds (not much lighter than Yamato shells)

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NC for battleship play and Amagi for battlecruiser play.

 

Bismarck for in-your-face, at-the-risk-of-being-focus-fired-by-the-entire-enemy-team play.

 

Overall, I'd say Amagi is the most flexible.  Solid accuracy, good speed, most number of guns, and heavily armored (bow/aft/TDS).  Only notable weakness is broadside armor and giant turning.

 

And in another personal opinion, I feel Amagi is generally the tankiest compared to the other 3, both bow-on and full aft, and in terms of TDS defense.  Sure Bismarck has full turtleback, but thin deck armor and thin turret armor.  A good Amagi player can snipe those turrets off or just aim for the superstructure and rack up easy 10k pens from deck/superstructure hits.  It's much harder to do that to an Amagi, especially with how thin and narrow she is when angled or bow/aft on.  And sure, NC can bow tank just as well, even bring 6 turrets to Amagi's 4, but NC doesn't have any aft or side armor making retreats in NC tougher (and even with a waterline citadel, NCs tend to take it while on the retreat).  Amagi's sole weakness is her citadel, and only when she bares it at the wrong time.

 

NC, having had the chance to play around with her fully upgraded on the PT server, is pretty good for a more laid-back battleship style of play.  Especially the typical bow-on battleship play, since even with a waterline citadel, she has no real side or aft armor to speak of (which is actually worse at range since shells arc enough to potentially land into the citadel rather than going straight-through).  She does have good gun angles like Amagi though, so bringing all 9 guns to bear isn't impossible.

 

Bismarck is just overall great for aggressive play, with plenty of armor and fast-firing guns, and pretty good speed.  However with only 8 of them and 15" at that, she needs to get to NC's and Amagi's sides to do any real damage with them, or resort to tossing HE at them.  There's also Bismarck's relative lack of accuracy at any range past 8km or so, so even the best led shots may sometimes miss.  Compared to NC and Amagi, Bismarck needs to go broadside more often to get the most out of both her secondaries and gun angles.  But if she's allowed to get to their broadsides, Bismarck is usually going to win.

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For all the love NC has among USN BBs, make no mistake, her damage average is about 9k lower than Amagi on NA server where Amagi does her best.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I love my NC, but its usable range is quite low compared to its theoretical maximum.  Over 15 KM and the shell velocity makes it difficult to hit targets.

 

 

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I have similar dmg stat with all3, but  bismarck is most aggressive  while amagi  is bit more finesse.    I just have issue with USBB in terms of WR .  decent stat but my WR is always behind others.    I don't shoot much over 15km in all the cases.    unless there is nothing else to shoot at.

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I think NC is best hands down. It may only have 12" of belt armor, but that easily beats the Amagi's 10". One of the biggest advantages is the TDS on Amagi which again, does not make sense. Why wargaming gives a fake WWI-era battlecruiser design the second best TDS in the game is beyond me. The thing I like about the NC is that it is stealthy and you can get close enough to an Amagi where the dispersion does not matter as much and go bow on. Going bow on, there isn't much an Amagi can do to harm you then again if he is also bow on you may not hurt him easily. But if a NC and Amagi do face bow on, the NC could hurt to Amagi more easily because it has 6 guns foreword vs. the Amagi's 4 and the American 16" are better than the Japanese gun-for-gun at close range because they have better penetration through their heavier shells.

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   If you can land SHS rounds, which is a developable skill, the NC is the best tier 10 battleship since you can defeat even bow tankers by landing those fat American rounds on decks and superstructures. If your accuracy is average to above average, Amagi is better in most respects including durability unless you're a bow tanker. Bismarcks are great but in my opinion, I haven't run into one yet I couldn't defeat with the NC by just keeping it at arms length. When in the NC or Amagi, the German sisters are my preferred opponents.

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having played both Amagi and NC (189 games in Amagi and 149 games in NC so far) I have to say their surface to surface combat ability is close. I average 85k in Amagi and 88k in NC, not a big different and both with close win rate around 60%.

If I have to only choose 1 between the 2. I think I choose NC over Amagi the following reasons.

 

1. As said, surface combat ability is on par with Amagi

2. NC is slightly shorter, turns better and have shorter detection range yet enjoy longer firing range

3. The Heavy American Shells makes citadel easier imo (given that you can aim properly)

4. this is the most important part, NC has unparalleled AA protection over Amagi.

 

btw, both of them have no problem fighting Bismarck. Keep the bismarck at 11km or so and your 406 US AP or 410 IJN AP is better than the smaller german shells. 

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   Yeah, for some reason, folks are on this Bismarck is uber everything kick, possibly because their secondaries create this light show at 10.6 km, and ooooh, I did 35k just with my secondaries. Until you realize that you can put your SHS rounds into a bow on Bismarck for 8k damage per salvo while stern quarter angling his 15's into bounces or low damage, all the while keeping him 9k or more down range. And if you do close the range a bit with Bismarck, I don't find myself melting automatically into the ocean. I do love my Bismarck too, but they are in no way unbalanced.

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   Yeah, for some reason, folks are on this Bismarck is uber everything kick, possibly because their secondaries create this light show at 10.6 km, and ooooh, I did 35k just with my secondaries. Until you realize that you can put your SHS rounds into a bow on Bismarck for 8k damage per salvo while stern quarter angling his 15's into bounces or low damage, all the while keeping him 9k or more down range. And if you do close the range a bit with Bismarck, I don't find myself melting automatically into the ocean. I do love my Bismarck too, but they are in no way unbalanced.

Yea I don't understand the obsession with bismark. I found her guns far too inaccurate and weak to make up for her secondaries. Sure, her secondaries are good, but they are only secondary, after all.

NC is my favorite tier 8 BB, although I technically did better with Amagi. I never like the Amagi's dispersion, it seemed to deviate vertically more than NC. Plus NC's arc actually helps it under 12km, where the extra arc can help you land citadels. AA is a plus.  

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I've honestly found North Carolina's dispersion at sane engagement ranges—that is to say, ranges below 15km—to be rather quite good. I've even been punished for improper aim a few times where my shells landed exactly where I pointed them, which meant that dispersion couldn't cover where the enemy ship was turning to. 

 

Anyway, Amagi and NC are both different but wonderful beasts. I haven't played Amagi since Beta, though. NC's been parts joy and parts utter defeat. I guess what I'm saying is: perhaps give both a try whenever you get the chance. NC's wonderful and versatile and will stomp everything as long as you don't eat torps and don't show your broadside, and cocky Bismarck players will find that you can brawl almost better than them (Surprise, 24k non-citadel salvo!). Amagi's wonderful and not as versatile and will stomp everything as long as you don't show your broadside and know how to keep enemies at mid-range.

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I never like the Amagi's dispersion, it seemed to deviate vertically more than NC. Plus NC's arc actually helps it under 12km, where the extra arc can help you land citadels. AA is a plus.  

 

^...This. I feel the same too, at shorter range NC shells have an advantage over Amagi's cos the shell arc is less "flat" They plunge into the citadel eaiser than Amagi's imo

and at long range, NC high arc can actually citadel a Bismarck (my two best BB for citadel-ing german BB are 1, NC. 2. Yamato)

 

I found NC actually pretty good at against Bismarck. The high shell arc keep giving 8k - 18k damage at distance when they land on the bismarck's deck

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I have never played the North Carolina , So in my opinion it is the Amagi that I enjoy. I must say I've caught the North Carolina by surprise several times giving her double citadels at long range using my spotter planes at any angle...maybe I'm just lucky that way, or maybe not...!

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Each ship has its advantage. So it depends on which ship suits you playstyle.

 

Amagi: Better long-range firepower and snipe potential, Faster, better armor, better secondaries.

 

NC: Better close-range accuracy. Better bow-on fire power. Better AA. Stealthier

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