The real problem with BBs in high tier META as i have observed

[President1]

The Problem with high tier matches is the massive change in the meta. most people arent realizing it but the DD saturation issue in high tier isnt that Dds are becoming better or really any more popular on their own merit. the problem is that theres been a subtle change in the mentality of the players that has a drastic effect on how the matches proceed. in warships, Battleships are the big guns. they have stronger armor than the other classes and are therefore slower and less maneuverable. Cruisers are the fast firing, agile vessels that support and protect the BBs. while destroyers are the other two classes eyes. they are fast attack vessels that have a devastating barrage of torpedoes. the aircraft carrier is secondary to the battle but can play a large role in the sinking fo the enemy ships. it used to be that battleships are meant to take on the enemy cruisers to leave the enemy BBs vulnerable to attack. cruisers sink destroyers to remove the threat of a "wall of skill" destroying the teams heavy hitters and the destroyers were there to balance the bbs. this is how it was, this is how it should be. but along the way, things changed. now, instead of seeking out and removing the destroyer threat to the bbs, cruisers now focus on burning battleships and leave the dds till the end of the game or when an easier chance presents itself to remove them. that forces battleships to stay back due to their relatively low maneuverability and slower turning guns. not to mention the reload to switch from AP to HE or if a salvo missed said agile torpedo boat. on top of that bbs must still deal with cruisers lest they be burned to death. add on top of that the constant threat of enemy torpedo planes (when CV is in match) and you have a recipe for a BB that would rather play reserved and sit in the back to avoid a large repair bill with little reward, which disrupts the natural flow of a match. in this new meta dds are left largely unchecked and therefore are becoming more fruitful to play if a battleship tries to push up. I play both BBs and cruisers quite a bit. cruisers more recently and its opened my eyes to the real problem. it isnt a question of teamwork thats an issue. its that the roles each ship plays has been affected by the changing mentality of the players of each class. Its becoming harder for battleships to play a match and profit from leading the charge, taking damage off of the weaker armored ships and essentially playing their role. it isnt that bbs are becoming too timid to move up its that there is no logical reason that they should anymore due to the change in the other ships roles.

[Reymu]

Too many players at high tiers are addicted to sniping and running from brawls.

[Pyrofiend]

This is unreadable. It's a giant wall of text with no capitalization. Please format into paragraphs. 

[President1]

This is unreadable. It's a giant wall of text with no capitalization. Please format into paragraphs. 

 

im sorry i was unaware that it needed to be in MLA format. give me a break i took it from a facebook post i made on the admirals locker page

[Canadatron]

Ah so this week it's cruisers being the reason why battleships behave like they are scared to play their class.

 

Anything to point the finger anywhere but yourself, I get it.

[Taichunger]

 

im sorry i was unaware that it needed to be in MLA format. give me a break i took it from a facebook post i made on the admirals locker page

 

You can take two minutes to format it. If you want people to read what you write, you have to give them the same commitment of time and energy.

[yUPPatriots]

This is unreadable. It's a giant wall of text with no capitalization. Please format into paragraphs. 

 

 

I took the liberty of reformatting and summarizing the op's post:

 

 

[Vaidency]

now, instead of seeking out and removing the destroyer threat to the bbs, cruisers now focus on burning battleships and leave the dds till the end of the game or when an easier chance presents itself to remove them.

 

This isn't a player mentality thing.  It's because this is the only effective way to play cruisers at high tiers on many of the maps.

 

As you go up in tiers, both battleships and destroyers gain much longer effective range, so the place in between them where cruisers are supposed to operate becomes much more dangerous. 

 

High-tier destroyers can launch torpedoes from many kilometers outside their detection range and shower targets with artillery fire while still remaining quite close to their own teams.  High-tier battleships gain greatly enhanced range and accuracy compared to what they have at lower tiers, allowing them to threaten targets much more consistently from across the map.

 

So if you're playing a high-tier cruiser, you're hunting destroyers that have an easier time staying unspotted and within reach of their support and you're being hunted by battleships that can reliably hit you much better.

 

On certain maps you can hunt destroyers in a cruiser by using islands for cover (Estuary, Hotspot and Warrior's Path are examples) but a lot of other maps don't have nearly enough cover for cruisers to risk exposing themselves (Land of Fire, Atlantic, Islands of Ice, etc.)  If you try to actively seek out and sink DD's in a cruiser on those maps you will almost always be one of the first ships sunk.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

The reason BB drivers behave the way they do at higher tiers is entirely because they're outranging everything on the map so badly they can fire from one side to the other. Why move and support the team, and omg, put yourself in danger when you can ride the back line?

[Batwingsix]

 

 

I took the liberty of reformatting and summarizing the op's post:

 

 

 

[Junostorm]

The reason BB drivers behave the way they do at higher tiers is entirely because they're outranging everything on the map so badly they can fire from one side to the other. Why move and support the team, and omg, put yourself in danger when you can ride the back line?

 

​And bring all guns to bear on the target, I see a lot of German and USN BB's do this, specially ones effective at brawling.

[Destroyer_Zeka]

I think I get what you're saying here. Since DDs are no longer being focused by CAs at the start of the game, and thus the great Walls of Skill are a threat that could potentially delete them. My interpretation is probably way far off from what you were actually meant

[President1]

thoughtful discussion gents. im glad most of the replies are of that nature ^_^ im not posting to bash players only to share my observations with everyone and in turn, theirs with me. ^_^

[vasuba]

There are a number of problems that plague the Battleship meta. HE and Fire Damage is certainly one of them but there is a lot to be addressed.

However you still have a problem where Ships that should be tanking do not which leaves the less tankier battleships to try and lead the charge. Those less tankier battleships learn real fast that they cannot be the spearhead and then begin to emulate the tanks.

8 Yamato out of 10 will camp in the back. The attempt to solve this gameplay with the bow armor nerf had the opposite effect as now ships just sit back further than ever to ensure the rng chance to actually pen the bow is minuscule.

Until the Tank ships are encouraged to actually tank  there will be little incentive for the lighter armored battleships to be taking the risks.

[QuantumEntropy]

Too many players at high tiers are addicted to sniping and running from brawls.

 

This is not even 1% of the problem

The 99% of the problem is that people know zero game mechanics even at tier 10

 

 

[Taichunger]

Two basic reasons why people camp:

 

-- all ships in high tiers are glass cannons. No ship can last long against the sustained fire of several ships. Hence pushing up is dangerous. Hence it isn't done.

-- when you do push up, you are frequently abandoned.

 

The antidote is obvious: division. I play high tier BBs almost exclusively divisioned, and we always push up. Enemy fire is divided among several ships, and you have teammates who are competent and can support each other. Someone always has spotting, shells, etc. Result: victory 55-65% of the time, at least.  

 

Long-term, WG needs to think about reducing the destructive power of high tier weaponry, or increasing the ability to resist damage. 

[yUPPatriots]

^_^

 

Reported.

[Angelhunter]

Great example of why BB's like hanging back... pushing into a point in my Bismarck with 2 cruisers and a DD. I know there's at least one enemy DD in front of me as i get spotted.

 

I pop sonar and dodge a first wave of torps and lock my secondaries onto the now visible DD. I drop him him to half HP as a a new wave of torps come in and i narrowly dodge those, so we have 2 enemy DD's here.

 

I see an enemy Bismarck spotted on the other side of the cap along with a Myoko so i begin to angle myself to deal with that as well as yet more torps come in and those are dodged.

 

As this point i know I'm screwed because those enemies torps are gonna be off cooldown and it will be game over then. The first DD a Simms appears in his smoke and i deleted him, but he gets his torps off and i eat all eight of them but live. Suddenly a second IJN appears and i know it's over but i manage to take him with me as i go down.

 

All the while i am wondering where my support went... around the other side of the cap to go chase the enemy Bismarck which puts them in the line of fire for half the enemy team.

 

I enjoy brawling and pushing into caps because i am a pretty good BB captain, but it's games like those where it makes me just want to ride the back line the next game

[donaldEpott]

Hell I play all three BBs CAs and DDs and I see no problem with any, I dont care if they are staying back as long as they are doing damage. As a High tier CA I stick with them and I find they get a little bolder when they know the CAs are supporting them and as A dd I go out and kill ships or deny an area and thats that. Some battleships are supposed to sit back and snipe, Amagi, Fuso, Kongo, Iowa, just name a few don't have the armor to brawl. Just like some CAs are either front line or second line. Back in the day they had a rate system that they put on ships. 1st rate ship of the line. Second rate and so on. it determined what the ship was supposed to do.

[BURN_Miner]

 

im sorry i was unaware that it needed to be in MLA format. give me a break i took it from a facebook post i made on the admirals locker page

 

It's not MLA formatting, it's called the "Enter Key".

 

[Unholy_Phoenix]

Great example of why BB's like hanging back... pushing into a point in my Bismarck with 2 cruisers and a DD. I know there's at least one enemy DD in front of me as i get spotted.

 

I pop sonar and dodge a first wave of torps and lock my secondaries onto the now visible DD. I drop him him to half HP as a a new wave of torps come in and i narrowly dodge those, so we have 2 enemy DD's here.

 

I see an enemy Bismarck spotted on the other side of the cap along with a Myoko so i begin to angle myself to deal with that as well as yet more torps come in and those are dodged.

 

As this point i know I'm screwed because those enemies torps are gonna be off cooldown and it will be game over then. The first DD a Simms appears in his smoke and i deleted him, but he gets his torps off and i eat all eight of them but live. Suddenly a second IJN appears and i know it's over but i manage to take him with me as i go down.

 

All the while i am wondering where my support went... around the other side of the cap to go chase the enemy Bismarck which puts them in the line of fire for half the enemy team.

 

I enjoy brawling and pushing into caps because i am a pretty good BB captain, but it's games like those where it makes me just want to ride the back line the next game

 

Plus one to this. I love playing my Bismark/Yamato/Kurfurst like they should but I also hate being left by me entire team to be the target of the DDs and half the enemy team while they are lemming training to one cap. Happened four times last night, twice in my Kurfurst and twice in my Iowa where I did push and my team ditched me and provided no support while they campped in the back. I don't mean just the BBs camped either; the CAs and DDs were camping too.

 

P.S.: Lots of grammar nazis here tonight.

[BlailBlerg]

The Problem with high tier matches is the massive change in the meta. most people arent realizing it but the DD saturation issue in high tier isnt that Dds are becoming better or really any more popular on their own merit. the problem is that theres been a subtle change in the mentality of the players that has a drastic effect on how the matches proceed. in warships, Battleships are the big guns. they have stronger armor than the other classes and are therefore slower and less maneuverable. Cruisers are the fast firing, agile vessels that support and protect the BBs. while destroyers are the other two classes eyes. they are fast attack vessels that have a devastating barrage of torpedoes. the aircraft carrier is secondary to the battle but can play a large role in the sinking fo the enemy ships. it used to be that battleships are meant to take on the enemy cruisers to leave the enemy BBs vulnerable to attack. cruisers sink destroyers to remove the threat of a "wall of skill" destroying the teams heavy hitters and the destroyers were there to balance the bbs. this is how it was, this is how it should be. but along the way, things changed. now, instead of seeking out and removing the destroyer threat to the bbs, cruisers now focus on burning battleships and leave the dds till the end of the game or when an easier chance presents itself to remove them. that forces battleships to stay back due to their relatively low maneuverability and slower turning guns. not to mention the reload to switch from AP to HE or if a salvo missed said agile torpedo boat. on top of that bbs must still deal with cruisers lest they be burned to death. add on top of that the constant threat of enemy torpedo planes (when CV is in match) and you have a recipe for a BB that would rather play reserved and sit in the back to avoid a large repair bill with little reward, which disrupts the natural flow of a match. in this new meta dds are left largely unchecked and therefore are becoming more fruitful to play if a battleship tries to push up. I play both BBs and cruisers quite a bit. cruisers more recently and its opened my eyes to the real problem. it isnt a question of teamwork thats an issue. its that the roles each ship plays has been affected by the changing mentality of the players of each class. Its becoming harder for battleships to play a match and profit from leading the charge, taking damage off of the weaker armored ships and essentially playing their role. it isnt that bbs are becoming too timid to move up its that there is no logical reason that they should anymore due to the change in the other ships roles.

 

Oh PLEASE.  More BaBBy whining.  

DDs are now much easier to kill, and are much less dangerous due to torpedo detection nerf, so there's no need to kill them immediately, they can be saved for a more convenient time.  

There's also no more repair bill anyway.  

 

Cruisers aren't looking to just kill BBs, theres just no real point in playing Cruisers anymore. And the game is just BB centric now.  

 

 

[BURN_Miner]

 

Plus one to this. I love playing my Bismark/Yamato/Kurfurst like they should but I also hate being left by me entire team to be the target of the DDs and half the enemy team while they are lemming training to one cap. Happened four times last night, twice in my Kurfurst and twice in my Iowa where I did push and my team ditched me and provided no support while they campped in the back. I don't mean just the BBs camped either; the CAs and DDs were camping too.

 

P.S.: Lots of grammar nazis here tonight.

 

I enjoy brawling just like Angelhunter, hence my 1,100+ games in the New Mexico. Pretty balanced tier and the ship itself is sturdy. Love the Bismark and even the Amagi does well in brawling. Yamato can be tricky if there are DD's around though.

 

With regards to the bold. If you are referring to me responding to him getting huffy about jumping to MLA formatting simply by not hitting the Enter Key every so often, well that's on you. Grammar Nazi's are people who pick apart grammar, as stated by the name. He jumped right to a specific type of formatting used by colleges, papers, books, etc. (in other words he made a mountain out of a mole hill) all over simply not hitting the Enter Key.

 

Misspelled words... They happen. Missed comma's, who cares.... Wall of text? It is hard to read.

[SpudZero]

 

 

I took the liberty of reformatting and summarizing the op's post:

 

 

 

lol That one makes me laugh every time 

 

[ArIskandir]

Ok, if I may I'll say it all can be reduced to one point: We are selfish, don't deny it, this is NA, this is the land of the selfish individual.

 

Apply selfishness to CA: As a CA player I'm devoted first to keep my [edited]safe; second, to kill those pesky BBs asap cuz they can delete me (plus much XP); third, once no BBs around I can safely go hunt DDs cuz that's badly paid hard work (gotta kill around 3 DDs to get as much as 1 juicy BB).

Apply selfishness to DD: As a DD player  I'm devoted first to keep my [edited]safe; second, to kill those juicy BBs asap cuz  much XP; third, to help the team with selfless actions like spotting or smoking cuz I'm not getting paid for it.

Apply selfishness to BB: As a BB player I'm devoted first to keep my [edited]safe, so there's no way I'm pushing without support and as we are all selfish pricks I don't trust you'll support me so the best I can do is camp; second, to kill those juicy CAs asap cuz  much XP; third, DDs are leper so I cry nerf them torpedos (I personally don't do this last one but wth).

Apply selfishness to Stats: The "measure" of my individual skill (and ergo selfsteem to some degree) is them metrics so I kill first whatever is more juicy and gives me more XP/WTR

Apply selfishness to WR: As a player, whenever I "transgress" the afore mentioned commandments is because  I want to ensure victory, not because I'm a team player but because I like to win and will do whatever it takes to win.

 

So, the problem isn`t game mechanics, the root of the meta is personality and we are selfish pricks.

 

 

 

I took the liberty of reformatting and summarizing the op's post:

 

 

 

Friggin drunken bear is a drug, I laugh every time!