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GearaDoga

Nagato is just so utterly worthless...

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I'm not listening, because your numbers are irrelevant.

 

The guns.

Do not.

Shoot.

Where you.

Aim them!!

 

Reality trumps theoretical numbers, every time.

 

Of the 16" or larger armed Battleships, only 2 BBs are more accurate than Nagato.  Amagi and Yamato.  The volleys are very good, most especially so when you slot ASM1.  The volley goes where you direct them to.  What this requires to succeed however, is the player knowing how to aim.  I only WISH my USN & German BBs had the level of precision Nagato has.

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Of the 16" or larger armed Battleships, only 2 BBs are more accurate than Nagato.  Amagi and Yamato.  The volleys are very good, most especially so when you slot ASM1.  The volley goes where you direct them to.  What this requires to succeed however, is the player knowing how to aim.  I only WISH my USN & German BBs had the level of precision Nagato has.

 

Which explains why the Nagato is consistently unable to score any hits on close range, stationary, broadside targets whilst being perfectly aimed.

 

Right.

 

You lot keep waving theoretical sigma values around, but the fact is that the guns absolutely do not put shells where they're aimed.  And even if some happen to scatter onto target, they don't do much damage when they do hit.

 

The ship is simply unable to compete with anything at it's tier.  The guns are not capable of inflicting notable damage on a Colorado or Scharnhorst/Gneisenau.  The armor is not able to protect the ship under any circumstances.  The AA struggles to deal with mere spotter planes, and the secondary batteries are just utterly ineffective.

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Which explains why the Nagato is consistently unable to score any hits on close range, stationary, broadside targets whilst being perfectly aimed.

 

Right.

 

You lot keep waving theoretical sigma values around, but the fact is that the guns absolutely do not put shells where they're aimed.  And even if some happen to scatter onto target, they don't do much damage when they do hit.

 

The ship is simply unable to compete with anything at it's tier.  The guns are not capable of inflicting notable damage on a Colorado or Scharnhorst/Gneisenau.  The armor is not able to protect the ship under any circumstances.  The AA struggles to deal with mere spotter planes, and the secondary batteries are just utterly ineffective.

 

 

 I can agree to the first part, I never tell or force a battleship to hit where I aim, I just tell it to hit the target in general and the guns do the rest on their own(a battleship has feelings so if your in a unhealthy relationship with its going to get you killed or screwed.)

Edited by Magic_Fighting_Tuna

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Which explains why the Nagato is consistently unable to score any hits on close range, stationary, broadside targets whilst being perfectly aimed.

 

Right.

 

You lot keep waving theoretical sigma values around, but the fact is that the guns absolutely do not put shells where they're aimed.  And even if some happen to scatter onto target, they don't do much damage when they do hit.

 

The ship is simply unable to compete with anything at it's tier.  The guns are not capable of inflicting notable damage on a Colorado or Scharnhorst/Gneisenau.  The armor is not able to protect the ship under any circumstances.  The AA struggles to deal with mere spotter planes, and the secondary batteries are just utterly ineffective.

 

If you can't hit a broadside, stationary, close range target, that is ridiculously ALL ON YOU.  Not the ship.  YOU.  The dispersion of the Nagato's guns in this game is great.  She has the reputation of "Sniper" in this game due to her accuracy.  But if your own aiming is faulty, then that Sniper Accuracy only goes where that faulty aim tells it to.  In your case, whatever wayward direction you tell it go.
Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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To give you the benefit of the doubt, have you looked into your ping or perhaps the crosshairs you're using? One of my friends' crosshairs and ping prevents him from making accurate shots at even the most reasonable times, getting a better internet service and using dynamic crosshairs helped him out tremendously. Furthermore, are you maneuvering your ship while making these shots? Sometimes the roll of your ship affects accuracy in very strange ways.

 

Barring those, I'm afraid to say that it's likely you. Fusou and Kawachi are probably the only truly sub-par accuracy ships in the IJN BB line, but Fusou makes up for it with a devastating broadside ability. Before you snipe my stats and say that I only have under ten games in Nagato, I've played significantly more Nagato and up in beta and in the SEA server. She just isn't what I'd define as an inaccurate battleship by any degree.

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If you can't hit a broadside, stationary, close range target, that is ridiculously ALL ON YOU.  Not the ship.  YOU.  The dispersion of the Nagato's guns in this game is great.  She has the reputation of "Sniper" in this game due to her accuracy.  But if your own aiming is faulty, then that Sniper Accuracy only goes where that faulty aim tells it to.  In your case, whatever wayward direction you tell it go.

 

No, it isn't.  Standard crosshairs, ~30ms ping, aimed DIRECTLY at the ship.  My aim, in this case, is perfect.  The ship just can't hit the damn target, no matter how much you try to shift the blame elsewhere.

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Honestly sounds like a PEBKAC and RNG.  You keep referring to this one instance which is definitely a standout instance, but at the same time I have been 4 km from a broadside NC aimed at the waterline and all of the shells hit the water.  I have been in a game where there was a Colorado stuck on an island 8 km away moving less than 1 knot a second and the shells all went over.  Myoko 5km away turning away to torp, a full salvo of nothing and one overpen.  On the other hand, a charging Ognevoi 3km slightly angled after launching torps, 6 hits for 60% of his health and a kill.  I've had 3 citadel salvos on Myoko's at 14 km.  RNG is a thing.  I can't say the Nagato is a bad ship as it is the ship I have the most High Calibers in.(maybe the Shokaku has more, but I've played many more games in the Shokaku than the Nagato).  The Nagato isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination.

 

However if you haven't already sold your Nagato, learn the optimal angles for bouncing.  You can't bow on anymore because of the bow change, but you still can angle very effectively.  If you can learn how to angle correctly now the Amagi becomes very easy.  RNG superstructure overpens and pens, but damage is avoidable.  Range is your friend.  Even if you can't hit anything because of RNG or personal skill, the other two BB lines are much more akin to brawlers.  The CO is very easy to hit as they will travel in straight lines to get from point A to point B the fastest and US BB are extremely easy to hit.  

 

Speaking from personal experience, it took time to get used to.  After dragging myself through stock and retraining captain, I know the ship can be bad.  Even after I was fully upgraded and the captain was retrained, I couldn't hit anything.  I would have 24k damage games where I hit 2 ships a few times and then found myself with no more teammates.  I had a WTR of something like 700 and was upset to the point where I wrote a post about how bad the Nagato was.  Fortunately I thought maybe I shouldn't post this and see why I suck so much in this.  I went back played a few matches in the ARP Kongo which has the same broadside and similar turret layout with the biggest difference  being the space between the last two turrets and VMF cruisers which have similar flight times to target and then returned to the Nagato.  Dispersion was still kinda crappy, but at least now 1-2 shots were hitting per salvo rather than maybe 1.  Eventually I got a feeling of the dispersion and went on to have numerous 120k games in both Ranked and Randoms.  In Ranked I didn't understand auto-bounce angles and stuff so I never went bow on and actually angled my armor.

 

Like any ship it has its weaknesses.  Yeah its AA sucks a bit and I have been almost killed in a single strike by CV's several times, but at the same time, that was my fault.  AFT remedies a lot of the AA problems as does BFT.  Yes its secondaries are really only average, but there is almost no circumstance you should be using them.  Your citadel is high and fairly easy to penetrate at close ranges.  Even at range stay angled.  I've penetrated a broadside Nagatoat range in the NO albeit only once in an actual match and barely a second time in the training room.  Angling armor is something that you should always be doing

 

 sCao10y.jpg

 

I mean you are entitled to your own opinion, but personally, there is no issue to the ship.

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Aah whoops, 3x2guns, I did something weird with multiplication.

Gneisenau has the largest firepower of all the T7 battleships at any range <7km with its secondaries and torps, apart from maybe scharnhorst, but thats another debate.

 

I would not say so. If we look at the other Battleships it is obvious that Gneisenau has both the lowest rpm (13.8 vs 15/16) and the lowest dpm (160.6k vs 189k/198k). Also Nagato clearly beats Gneisenau at her max range due to the shorter range of Gneisenau.

 

You lot keep waving theoretical sigma values around, but the fact is that the guns absolutely do not put shells where they're aimed.  And even if some happen to scatter onto target, they don't do much damage when they do hit.

 

The ship is simply unable to compete with anything at it's tier.  The guns are not capable of inflicting notable damage on a Colorado or Scharnhorst/Gneisenau.  The armor is not able to protect the ship under any circumstances.  The AA struggles to deal with mere spotter planes, and the secondary batteries are just utterly ineffective.

 

You draw a fact out of maybe 100 games max. That is not a fact but a mere assumption. And your experience, if you even have any in Nagato, stands against ours which you can see at our profiles. So basicly it is your word against ours. And when opinions collide, we take real facts into the argument. Facts that are not based on 100 or 1000 games, but on the information from the client itself. And that leads us to the dispersion and sigma values.

 

I would say that it is you who is unable to compete with a Nagato. I see several people here that manage to do well in her. The guns are, as already said and backed up with facts, very good while the armor is good enough against Cruisers.

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Nagato is great. I suck in her personally, but I acknowledge that is user error, my error, not the ship sucking. After accepting responsibility I set to work trying to improve my game in her.

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Seems like a stretch. Course you probably don't record matches as evidence of [edited]. And you probably don't have replays either.

 

However.

According to Warships Today, Nagato has the highest records on average of shots landed on target. 1% higher than the brawling Colorado. And 7-8% higher than either of the Germans.

 

Dispersion stats alone, she's beating out the Colorado and Gneisenau by 15-20%.

Now you may be telling the truth. At 10km there is the possibility of bracketing  a CA, as at 10km your dispersion should sit around 111.3m.

But I'm doubting that.

 

And as far as the armor. Stick to longer ranges and angle. It's not difficult. The ship is better armored than the Fuso. And I have absolutely 0 problems aggroing Amagis, Bismarcks, and NCs with the Fuso.

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No, it isn't.  Standard crosshairs, ~30ms ping, aimed DIRECTLY at the ship.  My aim, in this case, is perfect.  The ship just can't hit the damn target, no matter how much you try to shift the blame elsewhere.

 

It is all on you.

 

The good accuracy of the guns will go where you tell them to go.  Your faulty play makes that accuracy irrelevant.

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No, it isn't.  Standard crosshairs, ~30ms ping, aimed DIRECTLY at the ship.  My aim, in this case, is perfect.  The ship just can't hit the damn target, no matter how much you try to shift the blame elsewhere.

A CC came in here and proclaimed you were wrong, on top of the scores of other people who have done the same.  You. Are. Wrong.

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One of the problems getting into Nagato is that she is very accurate, if your aim is just a bit off then it will often be a clean miss whereas Fusō was scattering shells all over the place and picked up hits just by volume and RNG.  Once you master Nagato's 410s, however, she will consistently reach out and punish pretty much anything she is liable to meet.  All those Pensacolas that are the first thing to get spotted in a match? Nagato reaps those poor sods.  While It is true that the armor is a little squishy if you maintain your angles she can tank sufficiently and her mobility gets the job done.  

 

While you need to be a little more cautious when your bottom tier when Nagato is on top she is an absolute bully and can be very aggressive(so long as you don't let one of the Twins roll up into close action).  Considering MM currently loves Tier VII she is often going to get those favorable match ups.

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One of the problems getting into Nagato is that she is very accurate, if your aim is just a bit off then it will often be a clean miss whereas Fusō was scattering shells all over the place and picked up hits just by volume and RNG.  Once you master Nagato's 410s, however, she will consistently reach out and punish pretty much anything she is liable to meet.  All those Pensacolas that are the first thing to get spotted in a match? Nagato reaps those poor sods.  While It is true that the armor is a little squishy if you maintain your angles she can tank sufficiently and her mobility gets the job done.  

 

While you need to be a little more cautious when your bottom tier when Nagato is on top she is an absolute bully and can be very aggressive(so long as you don't let one of the Twins roll up into close action).  Considering MM currently loves Tier VII she is often going to get those favorable match ups.

 

Well... Fuso is actually more accurate than the Nagato (at least in raw dispersion. Like 10% better than the Nagato IIRC) However the extra 4 shells in the air make her seem particularly able to score hits compared to the Nagato.

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Well... Fuso is actually more accurate than the Nagato (at least in raw dispersion. Like 10% better than the Nagato IIRC) However the extra 4 shells in the air make her seem particularly able to score hits compared to the Nagato.

 

Fuso has a Sigma of 1.5 compared to Nagato's 2.0. The normal dispersion on Fuso is 1.11 cm/m and Nagato has 1.12. So the difference in normal dispersion is minimal and would be below the limit of noticable difference while the Sigma clearly is in favor of Nagato.

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In my first game with Nagato i really hated her because of the lack of accuracy. The armor isn't really a problem and angle i'm able to brawl, maybe not as good as a Gnesenau but it can work. But with the Nagato you really have to aim at your target and wait like 2-3 sec for your gun to really be in position before shooting and when you hit... EZ 16K damage without citadel, even managed to land a 21K on a Gnesenau.

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You lot all missed the bit where a full FORTY PERFECTLY AIMED SHOTS AGAINST A PARKED SHIP AT SUPER CLOSE RANGE proceeded to completely miss, didn't you?

 

These guns are easily the most comically inaccurate since the Wyoming and Kawachi. Shells flying both clean over and well short (in the same salvo) of targets within 10km, shells from the same turret flying hundreds of meters apart horizontally, and then even after all of that, when some magically do hit, they BOUNCE off of light cruiser armour.

 

Whatever ship you're referring to, it's damn sure not the (elite, fyi) Nagato.

 

This post is facepalm worthy. :facepalm:

If you really missed 40 shells (So 5 full salvos) on a stationary ship at close range, there's no way you could blame the ship for that. 

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This post is facepalm worthy. :facepalm:

If you really missed 40 shells (So 5 full salvos) on a stationary ship at close range, there's no way you could blame the ship for that. 

 

Where'd he find someone sitting still for what, ~160 seconds to fire all these shots at? Maybe an AFK person?

 

Fuso has a Sigma of 1.5 compared to Nagato's 2.0. The normal dispersion on Fuso is 1.11 cm/m and Nagato has 1.12. So the difference in normal dispersion is minimal and would be below the limit of noticable difference while the Sigma clearly is in favor of Nagato.

 

How do you get 1.11cm/m and 1.12cm/m?

 

My Fuso stats are 224m dispersion @ 21.8km. 224m/21.8km = 10.27m/km or 1.027cm/m.

Nagato sits at 231m dispersion @ 20.5km. 231m/20.5km = 11.26m/km or 1.126cm/m.

 

Unless my math is wrong. I've never been shown anything that says they have anything but a linear relationship outside of 4km.

Edited by Nikarus

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How do you get 1.11cm/m and 1.12cm/m?

 

My Fuso stats are 224m dispersion @ 21.8km. 224m/21.8km = 10.27m/km or 1.027cm/m.

Nagato sits at 231m dispersion @ 20.5km. 231m/20.5km = 11.26m/km or 1.126cm/m.

 

Unless my math is wrong. I've never been shown anything that says they have anything but a linear relationship outside of 4km.

 

I made a double and tripple check and both my client and the wiki confirm that Fusou's maximum dispersion lies at 241 meters.

 

Let me take a guess: you have Aiming Systems Modification 1 installed? That one reduces the dispersion by 7% and that gives us 241 x 0.93 = 224

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I made a double and tripple check and both my client and the wiki confirm that Fusou's maximum dispersion lies at 241 meters.

 

Let me take a guess: you have Aiming Systems Modification 1 installed? That one reduces the dispersion by 7% and that gives us 241 x 0.93 = 224

 

Oh yeah, that's what I get for trying to math while drunk

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Oh yeah, that's what I get for trying to math while drunk

 

Don't drink and sail. It hurts your health as well as the ones around you.

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The Nagato, like the Izumo, is a great ship when you understand its strengths and weaknesses. I purchased by Nagato back because it is such an enjoyable tier 7. Those guns are bada$$ and the armor is decent when angled effectively. That tier taught me how and when to brawl vs provide support fire. If you don't like the Nagato, you're going to have a hard time with the Izumo. They're both, when grinded and learned, fantastic practice ships for when you step into the Yamato.


 

 

 

 

Edited by Snuggle_Foch

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