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Viper101

British Battleship Ideas

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Hello All,

 

I have been reading on the forums, and have seen some of the ideas on British Battleships.

I was going to reply to said forum posts, but all of the ones that I found were almost a year old. 

I am not going to include detailed armor or armament stats, as many of these ships are fairly well known. 

Anyway, cutting to the chase here, I wish to present my ideas for British Battleships, as well as some justifications for them. 

 

Tier III: HMS Dreadnought. 

The ship that started it all. As I am sure many of you know, HMS Dreadnought started a bit of a revolution in the way battleships were designed. She was the first ship to utilize steam power, rather than coal, making here the fastest ship of her time. She was the first to have a uniform armament made up of primarily 12 inch rifles (Predreadnought designs had a few large guns, and a heavy secondary battery). 

 

Tier IV: HMS Orion

This was known as a super-dreadnought, as she mounted guns larger than the 12 inch rifles carried by dreadnoughts of the time. She also featured her guns mounted on the centerline of the hull, much like the Wyoming and almost every other battleship following (The Kaiser being an exception). She had a similar speed to Dreadnought, at 21 knots, but had thicker armor on most if not all sections. 

 

Tier V: HMS Iron Duke

Still classified as super-dreadnoughts, these ships were the most advanced in the Royal Navy's arsenal by the outbreak of World War One. They had the 13.5 inch rifles of the Orion Class. Largely similar to the Orions, these ships could benefit from better dispersion values and possibly a scout plane.

This is the tier where I feel the most conflicted, as many RN battleships were largely similar during this time period in terms of speed, armmament, and armor. 

 

Tier VI: Queen Elizabeth Class

See HMS Warspite. 

Though, this ship would be set up so that players have to work to unlock the different modifications this ship went through over the years. These would come about in the form of Hull upgrades, as we have seen on almost every other ship. 

 

Tier VII: HMS King George V (1939)

While some may think this ship belongs at a later tier, I disagree. This ship has smaller guns than her QE class counterparts, but has thicker armor, and better speed.

 

Tier VIII: HMS Vanguard

While being the last battleship to be launched in World War II, her 15 inch guns, again, would not be at home in the top tier. She is very similar to Bismarck in the sense that she is armed with 380mm rifles. She does have a faster speed than Bismarck, but only by 1.5 knots. I think she would be right at home fighting along side the Bismarck, North Carolina, and Amagi.

 

Tier IX: HMS Nelson

While being slower than the Vanguard, and her sister, Izumo, Nelson is completemented with 9 16 inch rifles. Due to her heavy armament, I feel that she would be right at home with Izumo, Iowa, and the Friedrich der Grosse. She would be slow, which is my only hesitation at putting her at this tier.

 

Tier X: HMS Lion

Like the Montana and the tier IX and X German Battleships, HMS Lion was never completed. She was to be armed with 9 16 inch guns, but in a configuration similar to that of the Iowa class. I had toyed with throwing in the N3 class battleship, but due to the turret design, year of design, and other battleships at this tier, I chose not to. I would rather see her as a premium, such as USS Missouri, costing free XP to purchase. 

 

 

I am looking forward to hearing the communities thoughts on this, and I hope that Wargaming will soon add these largely iconic ships into the game in 2017 (though based on their "roadmap" that may not happen".

 

Good luck, and fair seas.

 

Viper101

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I agree with most of your line but her are some changes lion at tier nine and N3 at tier ten(basicly a yamato with 9 18' guns but no super firing turrents) Nelson is a Colorado with the Izimo's gun placement(short range slow flight time and bad accuracy and aquard gun placement) so I think premium tier seven

Edited by skull_122_steel
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Hello All,

 

I have been reading on the forums, and have seen some of the ideas on British Battleships.

I was going to reply to said forum posts, but all of the ones that I found were almost a year old. 

I am not going to include detailed armor or armament stats, as many of these ships are fairly well known. 

Anyway, cutting to the chase here, I wish to present my ideas for British Battleships, as well as some justifications for them. 

 

Tier III: HMS Dreadnought. 

The ship that started it all. As I am sure many of you know, HMS Dreadnought started a bit of a revolution in the way battleships were designed. She was the first ship to utilize steam power, rather than coal, making here the fastest ship of her time. She was the first to have a uniform armament made up of primarily 12 inch rifles (Predreadnought designs had a few large guns, and a heavy secondary battery). 

 

Tier IV: HMS Orion

This was known as a super-dreadnought, as she mounted guns larger than the 12 inch rifles carried by dreadnoughts of the time. She also featured her guns mounted on the centerline of the hull, much like the Wyoming and almost every other battleship following (The Kaiser being an exception). She had a similar speed to Dreadnought, at 21 knots, but had thicker armor on most if not all sections. 

 

Tier V: HMS Iron Duke

Still classified as super-dreadnoughts, these ships were the most advanced in the Royal Navy's arsenal by the outbreak of World War One. They had the 13.5 inch rifles of the Orion Class. Largely similar to the Orions, these ships could benefit from better dispersion values and possibly a scout plane.

This is the tier where I feel the most conflicted, as many RN battleships were largely similar during this time period in terms of speed, armmament, and armor. 

 

Tier VI: Queen Elizabeth Class

See HMS Warspite. 

Though, this ship would be set up so that players have to work to unlock the different modifications this ship went through over the years. These would come about in the form of Hull upgrades, as we have seen on almost every other ship. 

 

Tier VII: HMS King George V (1939)

While some may think this ship belongs at a later tier, I disagree. This ship has smaller guns than her QE class counterparts, but has thicker armor, and better speed.

 

Tier VIII: HMS Vanguard

While being the last battleship to be launched in World War II, her 15 inch guns, again, would not be at home in the top tier. She is very similar to Bismarck in the sense that she is armed with 380mm rifles. She does have a faster speed than Bismarck, but only by 1.5 knots. I think she would be right at home fighting along side the Bismarck, North Carolina, and Amagi.

 

Tier IX: HMS Nelson

While being slower than the Vanguard, and her sister, Izumo, Nelson is completemented with 9 16 inch rifles. Due to her heavy armament, I feel that she would be right at home with Izumo, Iowa, and the Friedrich der Grosse. She would be slow, which is my only hesitation at putting her at this tier.

 

Tier X: HMS Lion

Like the Montana and the tier IX and X German Battleships, HMS Lion was never completed. She was to be armed with 9 16 inch guns, but in a configuration similar to that of the Iowa class. I had toyed with throwing in the N3 class battleship, but due to the turret design, year of design, and other battleships at this tier, I chose not to. I would rather see her as a premium, such as USS Missouri, costing free XP to purchase. 

 

 

I am looking forward to hearing the communities thoughts on this, and I hope that Wargaming will soon add these largely iconic ships into the game in 2017 (though based on their "roadmap" that may not happen".

 

Good luck, and fair seas.

 

Viper101

 

Everything up to Tier VII is fine.

 

Nelson should be the Tier VII ship, seeing how she is the historical counterpart to Colorado and Nagato, while King George V is not. Nelson is too slow and her 16 inch guns are actually worse than Colorado's and Nagato's 16 inch guns. She is also lighter than any Tier IX, making her unfit.

 

King George V with some buffs and tweaks is the most likely Tier VIII but this has been debated to no end. Vanguard may be used here instead, leaving the other to be a premium.

 

Tier IX is an early Lion class design, being very similar to Iowa however, she is not Tier X material.

 

Tier X could be Lion 1945B, a modernized N3, L3, L-III or other design.

 

 

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Nelson's 16 inch guns were rather lack-luster. She is not exactly T9 material.

 

Not at all actually.

 

She is lighter, slower, has inferior armament and AA to regular Tier IX battleships.

 

An early Lion class should be Tier IX.

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Not at all actually.

 

She is lighter, slower, has inferior armament and AA to regular Tier IX battleships.

 

An early Lion class should be Tier IX.

 

Compared to T9 ships, yes, they are lack-luster. By alot. Iowa should be punching through 20 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Nelson is doing ~12 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Yea, for T9, that is incredibly lack-luster. Push her to T8, with North Carolina/Bismarck who are doing ~20/~17 inches of armor penetration give or take, again at or near enough to 20,000 yards, yes. Nelson is STILL falling short. Compare her to Colorado/Nagato, who are punching ~11.5/~10.6 inches of armor each....yea, now we are seeing guns where Nelson is a contemporary. Her guns are lack-luster for anything higher than T7. Same for her speed, AA, and yes, her armor as well. (which we are in agreement on it would appear).
Edited by TabbyHopkins

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Compared to T9 ships, yes, they are lack-luster. By alot. Iowa should be punching through 20 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Nelson is doing ~12 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Yea, for T9, that is incredibly lack-luster. Push her to T8, with North Carolina/Bismarck who are doing ~20/~17 inches of armor penetration give or take, again at or near enough to 20,000 yards, yes. Nelson is STILL falling short. Compare her to Colorado/Nagato, who are punching ~11.5/~10.6 inches of armor each....yea, now we are seeing guns where Nelson is a contemporary. Her guns are lack-luster for anything higher than T7. Same for her speed, AA, and yes, her armor as well. (which we are in agreement on it would appear).

 

Which makes sense, since Nagato, Colorado and Nelson were all contemporaries aka, "The Big Seven".

 

That's the reason I am so opposed to including KGV at tier VII, seeing how she would be an adequate Tier VIII ship with the proper buffs and tweaks.

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was only viewing Izumo as a copy of Nelson. Didn't even think to look at the guns. 

Part of me saw 16 inch guns and automatically thought tier 8 or higher, forgetting that the Colorado has 8 of them. 

But based on what I am seeing...

Up to tier VII is okay, but from there:

Tier VII: HMS Nelson

Tier VIII: HMS Vanguard/King George V

Tier IX: HMS Lion (early)

Tier X: HMS Lion (Late)/N3 Battleship/L-3. 

 

I was hesitant to put the KGV at VIII due to her guns. But, as was said, the proper buffs could be made. 

I personally am not a fan of the design of the N3 ship, but it appears that that is one of few candidates to consider. And the 18 inch guns would give Yamato players something to think about.

That said, I am not familiar with how the Yamato holds up against the Montana, Iowa, and N.C.'s 16 inch guns. 

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was only viewing Izumo as a copy of Nelson. Didn't even think to look at the guns. 

Part of me saw 16 inch guns and automatically thought tier 8 or higher, forgetting that the Colorado has 8 of them. 

But based on what I am seeing...

Up to tier VII is okay, but from there:

Tier VII: HMS Nelson

Tier VIII: HMS Vanguard/King George V

Tier IX: HMS Lion (early)

Tier X: HMS Lion (Late)/N3 Battleship/L-3. 

 

I was hesitant to put the KGV at VIII due to her guns. But, as was said, the proper buffs could be made. 

I personally am not a fan of the design of the N3 ship, but it appears that that is one of few candidates to consider. And the 18 inch guns would give Yamato players something to think about.

That said, I am not familiar with how the Yamato holds up against the Montana, Iowa, and N.C.'s 16 inch guns. 

 

You aren't really alone with N3, I'm not a fan of her either however, she was historically planned, so we might see her.

 

KGV could be an easy Tier VIII with buffs like superchargers, replacing the twin turret with the original planned quad turret, buffing her reload and so on.

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Nelson class should be tier 7 followed by King George V at 8. I know it uses 14" guns but we've seen battleships with smaller guns still be highly capable ships.

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Nelson class should be tier 7 followed by King George V at 8. I know it uses 14" guns but we've seen battleships with smaller guns still be highly capable ships.

 

To which are you referring?

Just out of curiosity :hmm:

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Compared to T9 ships, yes, they are lack-luster. By alot. Iowa should be punching through 20 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Nelson is doing ~12 inches of armor at 20,000 yards. Yea, for T9, that is incredibly lack-luster. Push her to T8, with North Carolina/Bismarck who are doing ~20/~17 inches of armor penetration give or take, again at or near enough to 20,000 yards, yes. Nelson is STILL falling short. Compare her to Colorado/Nagato, who are punching ~11.5/~10.6 inches of armor each....yea, now we are seeing guns where Nelson is a contemporary. Her guns are lack-luster for anything higher than T7. Same for her speed, AA, and yes, her armor as well. (which we are in agreement on it would appear).

Colorado/Nagato, and bismark all punch through about 16 inches of armor at 20k yards, so Nelson isn't even up to tier 7 standards. Although the velocity used in the Nelson pen data on navweaps is a little low. What WG will probably do is give nelson the proposed 2250lb shell, thus giving it very similar (actually slightly better) performance than CO. That way, Nelson could probably slot into tier 7 or 8, although 8 would still be a stretch. 

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the dank ship and shiney horse. :p

 

That is what I had figured. Still wanted to make sure tho :p

That said, I love my shiney horse, but hate the attitude of some of the players I face at her tier. Different topic, different time tho. 

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To which are you referring?

Just out of curiosity :hmm:

 

Scharnhorst - 11" x 9 - came out well after the Colorado with 16" x 8 and the Nelson 16" x 9, plans to upgrade to 15" x 6 guns (as seen on Gneisenau in game)

Bismarck which came a few years later - 15" x 8 while the US was still considered less guns and smaller guns

 

 

Colorado/Nagato, and bismark all punch through about 16 inches of armor at 20k yards, so Nelson isn't even up to tier 7 standards. Although the velocity used in the Nelson pen data on navweaps is a little low. What WG will probably do is give nelson the proposed 2250lb shell, thus giving it very similar (actually slightly better) performance than CO. That way, Nelson could probably slot into tier 7 or 8, although 8 would still be a stretch. 

 

 

 

The British 16" gun was out preformed by the German 15" gun. I'm sure they could do something to make up for this in game to make up for any shortcoming in game tho. We may see AP only battleships that's just less likely to ricochet. 

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Just curious....why is there still talk about the RN BB's?  We aren't going to see them this year at all.....and I kinda doubt we will ever see them personally....

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Just curious....why is there still talk about the RN BB's?  We aren't going to see them this year at all.....and I kinda doubt we will ever see them personally....

 

Sometimes the devs listen to us.

Besides, its all friendly speculation. 

 

It would be incqedibly stupid of wargaming to not include the British battleships in a game about NAVAL combat. The brits had the largest standing navy at the start of WW2, and one of the most famous.

I didn't think they would add German battleships, but they did. Royal Navy light cruisers? Who saw that coming?

 

Point is, they should be added.

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King George V kind of confuses me. It's armed with ten 14 in. guns which is tier 5 or 6 levels of armament yet the armor on the thing would be excellent. The guns weren't armored as well as other ships of the era because they wanted to put more armor in for magazine protection. I think tier 7 would be a good place for it

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King George V kind of confuses me. It's armed with ten 14 in. guns which is tier 5 or 6 levels of armament yet the armor on the thing would be excellent. The guns weren't armored as well as other ships of the era because they wanted to put more armor in for magazine protection. I think tier 7 would be a good place for it

 

You need to stop thinking about just weapon calibres, the 14 inch gun on the KGV was a thoroughly modern weapon compared to weapons of similar sizes built during the last war. They were very accurate and used a unique shell which allowed the weapons system to punch well above it's weight. If they utilise the former characteristic ingame, while the shell's alpha damage may be a lot lower down compared to other tier VIIIs you should in theory get a lot more rounds on the target through better dispersion which should balance things out.

 

The major issue is the game does not currently simulate bursting charges, but it's possible the KGV may get a special shell (like the RN CL line) which is less likely to bounce or break up etc to simulate this.  Another option is the BL 15'/45 mkIIs which were considered in 3 triple turrets after it was clear that the Germans and Japanese were not going to sign the London Naval treaty. In the end it was decided not to up gun the vessels as the delays in the construction schedule were not acceptable to the admiralty and the 14' gun was deemed sufficient which it was.

Edited by Monty9185

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@Monty9185

 

Just being cheeky... but 14' and 15' guns are huge! How's that possible to fit in a Triple turret? The Schwerer Gustav's gun was 2.6' (31.5" or 80cm). 

 

Feet is ( ' ) and Inches is ( " )

 

Regardless pretty every knows what your actual measurements are supposed to be... :)

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@Monty9185

 

Just being cheeky... but 14' and 15' guns are huge! How's that possible to fit in a Triple turret? The Schwerer Gustav's gun was 2.6' (31.5" or 80cm). 

 

Feet is ( ' ) and Inches is ( " )

 

Regardless pretty every knows what your actual measurements are supposed to be... :)

 

Whoops! You cheeky git. :teethhappy:
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You need to stop thinking about just weapon calibres, the 14 inch gun on the KGV was a thoroughly modern weapon compared to weapons of similar sizes built during the last war. They were very accurate and used a unique shell which allowed the weapons system to punch well above it's weight. If they utilise the former characteristic ingame, while the shell's alpha damage may be a lot lower down compared to other tier VIIIs you should in theory get a lot more rounds on the target through better dispersion which should balance things out.

 

The major issue is the game does not currently simulate bursting charges, but it's possible the KGV may get a special shell (like the RN CL line) which is less likely to bounce or break up etc to simulate this.  Another option is the BL 15'/45 mkIIs which were considered in 3 triple turrets after it was clear that the Germans and Japanese were not going to sign the London Naval treaty. In the end it was decided not to up gun the vessels as the delays in the construction schedule were not acceptable to the admiralty and the 14' gun was deemed sufficient which it was.

It is still a 14 inch 45 caliber gun firing a not particularly heavy shell at not particularly fast velocities. The shell wasn't anything special, and it certainly wasn't a SH shell like the US made. The british gun actually had inferior penetration compared to the US 14/45 gun (NY/AZ in game). In game they probably just buff the krupp value out the window and get much higher than historical pen or you use the 9x15 set up that you mentioned. 

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Will we have the Hood as a premium?

 

That was what I was thinking, all this talk about British Battleships and no one mentions the Hood. I personally would like it at tier 7 and have it so that she is easy to detonate just so I can detonate her with my Bismarck. ;) Restically if done right the Hood could make an interesting tier 6 or 7 premium Battleship.

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That was what I was thinking, all this talk about British Battleships and no one mentions the Hood. I personally would like it at tier 7 and have it so that she is easy to detonate just so I can detonate her with my Bismarck. ;) Restically if done right the Hood could make an interesting tier 6 or 7 premium Battleship.

I agree, the Hood is the perfect premium ship.​ It'll please the fans of the ship and at the same time not disrupt the line. 

 

My wish is for the establishment of a battleship line and a separate battlecruiser line (as well as CL and CA lines).

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