Observation on German Destroyers

[_Fantomex_]

Wasn't sure where to place this topic, considering how there is no "German DD's" forum section yet.

 

So now that the NDA was lifted and the update was announced for tomorrow, we can finally see how these new DD's are supposed to perform. For this topic specifically, I'm looking at the Z-23 (tier 8) specifically, but it also applies to the rest of the line.

 

So some characteristics that we can see from the community contributor videos:

 

• Fairly ineffective HE with low fire chance
• AP is more effective, given the right angle of your target
• Fairly large
• Turret traverse is decent, but still quite slow compared to USN DD's
• Shell arcs are better than USN DD's, but not as good as VMF or IJN arcs
• Dual-purpose main guns give a relatively good AA rating for a DD
• A 3 x 4 commander skill build with AFT, DE, and MFCAA seems like it will be an option

 

What other ship that was recently added has almost exactly the same characteristics (sans hydro)?

 

The Akizuki if you ask me.

 

It seems to me that the new German DD's will perform and play similarly to the Akizuki. The HE will only be useful for fires, the AP will be the preferred choice, engaging other DD's won't be a good idea, and providing AA cover for yourself or another DD is completely viable.

 

EDIT: The Akizuki has ineffective AA due to the small caliber not penetrating armor, German HE is ineffective because it's German. Running the 150's on the tier 6(?) and 8 will kind of remove this issue

 

Obviously, the German DD's will have hydro, while the Akizuki gets the Torpedo Reload Booster and better torps. To me it seems like the German DD's will do very well in a division with a Benson, Tashkent, or for trolling, a Lo Yang. The hydro allows you to spot, and keep spotting, enemy destroyers, but since your HE will be pretty crap against an enemy DD, you rely on your division mate to do the majority of the damage. The hydro will also allow you to dodge torps while camping in your smoke, and your AA can take down catapult fighters that are scouting you.

 

While I do well in the Akizuki, I don't know how much fun I really have with her. Shattered HE rounds, situational AP, and a large target make it frustrating at times. Honestly, its probably just me as a player and not the ship itself. My experience with the Akizuki, however, leads me to believe that I probably won't enjoy the German DD's that much, but again, I could be wrong.

[saagri]

Hm, one difference is that Akizuki's HE has penetration problems while German HE should at least be able to pen.

 

Also, what is the RoF for the 128/150's? I wouldn't think the German DD's will be the DPS monster Akiuzki is. 

[ScrewySqrl]

since the data is up on teh wiki:

 

15 rpm for the low-tier 88/105, 8-9 rpm for the 128/150s at mid tiers, and back to 15 rpm at tier X.

 

the torps are GOOD: 7/7.5km at T5 with 65 knot speed!  but you cannot stealth fire them

[renegadestatuz]

Hm, one difference is that Akizuki's HE has penetration problems while German HE should at least be able to pen.

 

Also, what is the RoF for the 128/150's? I wouldn't think the German DD's will be the DPS monster Akiuzki is. 

 

The 150s reload in 7 seconds.

[saagri]

 

The 150s reload in 7 seconds.

 

The citadel possibilities may be hilarious. 

[renegadestatuz]

 

The citadel possibilities may be hilarious. 

 

Flamu was streaming the German DDs almost all day yesterday and I watched him for almost a good 2 hours. The tier 10 wrecks stuff and has an extremely large stealth fire window. It's literally a perfect hybrid between the Khab and the Gearing. Just think of a little slower Khab running around the map being able to stealth fire just about the entire time with a RoF the same as a Gearing, if not a second faster, and that's the T10 DD. And don't forget the good torps with a fast reload. And the hydro works wonders on her. It's 5km, so they nerfed the hydro just a little, but it's still very workable. And when he was playing the T8 with the 150s, it was wrecking cruisers and getting great damage on BB superstructures.

[_Fantomex_]

The 150's also do 3,700 AP damage on a citadel hit.

 

I was also incorrect in saying that the main guns are dual purpose on the tier 8, so MFCAA is uselss in that regard, and AFT is useless if your un the 150's. So for the Z-23, a standard concealment build with DE and SE (with 19 points) is the better option IMO.

[Lert]

The tier 10 wrecks stuff and has an extremely large stealth fire window.

 

Yep. You can get the invisifiring window to ~6km with the right combination of equipment and skills. Makes me wonder how that works into the recent "WG doesn't like invisifiring and wants to be rid of it" hubbub.

 

Hint: it doesn't.

[_Sarcasticat_]

 

You can with the concealment expert skill. In fact, every German destroyer can stealthtorpedo with that skill, though sometimes the margins are minimal.

 

 

Yep. You can get the invisifiring window to ~6km with the right combination of equipment and skills. Makes me wonder how that works into the recent "WG doesn't like invisifiring and wants to be rid of it" hubbub.

 

Hint: it doesn't.

If I didn't really like German Cruisers, my Yorck captain would be in a T-22 right about now. 

 

And thanks for the advice. 

[renegadestatuz]

 

You can with the concealment expert skill. In fact, every German destroyer can stealthtorpedo with that skill, though sometimes the margins are minimal.

 

 

Yep. You can get the invisifiring window to ~6km with the right combination of equipment and skills. Makes me wonder how that works into the recent "WG doesn't like invisifiring and wants to be rid of it" hubbub.

 

Hint: it doesn't.

 

Yup. I'm of the same mind as you about it.

[Raiiako]

Lert or anyone else. Does his not bother you that they're really making the LoYangs hydro feel very useless as a ship?  She already doesn't really do that well in games 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Yep. You can get the invisifiring window to ~6km with the right combination of equipment and skills. Makes me wonder how that works into the recent "WG doesn't like invisifiring and wants to be rid of it" hubbub.

 

Hint: it doesn't.

 

Lert or anyone else. Does his not bother you that they're really making the LoYangs hydro feel very useless as a ship?  She already doesn't really do that well in games 

 

 

Lo Yang's Hydro was always pointless.  It was short ranged with a ship detection of 3.48km.  Tier VIII Z-23's Hydro ship detection is 4.44km, according to Flamu.  Not only have German DDs Debowed Lo Yang's once unique function, they are effectively better at it.

[Cruiser_Chicago]

Excellent torpedo range, speed and reload time

Hydroacoustic Search consumable is available at tier VI and mounted in a separate slot

128mm guns with good ballistic properties become available at tier VI

Tier IX and X German destroyers mount powerful AA defenses due to their dual-purpose guns

 

The tier X Z-52 is one of the last German destroyers designed before the end of World War II. She's a worthy adversary for Shimakaze, Khabarovsk, and Gearing.

[Lert]

Tier VIII Z-23's Hydro ship detection is 4.44km, according to Flamu. 

 

Tier 6 - 9 will have 'standard' Hydro. The tier 10 will be the only one with uber german hydro.

[KurganSPK]

why not just wait to compare the actual ships directly in battle instead of arguing over/fretting over paper stats?

[Creepershark77]

I think the 150s may also be viewed as a blessing, because even though you won't be able to use BFT and AFT, you will be able to focus more on increase the survivability of the Tier VI and VIII destroyers.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

why not just wait to compare the actual ships directly in battle instead of arguing over/fretting over paper stats?

 

They are hitting tomorrow.  Unless WG decided to do a massive Pre-Release Nerfbat Party on KM DDs.

 

I think the 150s may also be viewed as a blessing, because even though you won't be able to use BFT and AFT, you will be able to focus more on increase the survivability of the Tier VI and VIII destroyers.

 

 

Options!

[KurganSPK]

 

They are hitting tomorrow.  Unless WG decided to do a massive Pre-Release Nerfbat Party on KM DDs.

 

 

 

Options!

kinda my point...

 

[Creepershark77]

It seems like the german DDs hit a middle ground in terms of them being gunboats or torpedo boats.