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Herr_Reitz

Pro BB Rant Thread

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I play two classes almost evenly, BB and DD. I'm an okay player who gets moments of spectacular luck. I run a potato Asus k53 laptop with all the graphics dialed down. Mid 20's fps. I am currently working towards my first tier X, the German G.K. I'll reach it easily this week.

 

Playing BB and DD kinda gives you a different slant on a match. But there's one thing in common and that is cruisers. 

 

Rant #1 - Cruisers, HUNT DEM DDs! 

 

How many times in matches do you see cruisers engaging BBs instead of hunting and killing destroyers? IMHO and it is of course a HO heh heh... far too often. Sure, sure you can burn them down with fire, maybe even cit them with some AP.  

 

But when you are within spitting distance of your own friendlies, especially BBs, who are getting pummeled by destroyer torps you think maybe, just maybe the better mission task would be to kill the DDs FIRST? 

 

Feel free to slam, ram and rant away. I just had to vent. But I do believe there are some unwritten rules in this game and imho a cruiser's first role is to hunt and kill the red DDs. 

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I agree that cruisers should hunt DD's but you have to understand that to do so the cruisers have to be fairly far forward. And then all the red ships fire at the cruisers and sink it easily. 

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Yeah, I'm getting tired of losing late game matches because BB's, Cruisers and DD's spent the whole early match killing red cruisers and setting BB's on fire.  Then late match, red DD's are still alive and picking off our ships or capping at their leisure.

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Getting tired of one class of ship complaining about others. Until you realize that if you want something from some other class you're going to have to DO something, the argument is pointless.

 

Cruisers commonly complain of having to push in front of battleships in order to do what you want: hunt destroyers. Smart enemy battleships then focus your cruisers. How can you prevent that? Hint: Move forward with the cruisers. 

 

I've seen more than enough evidence that moving forward as a team wins games and battleships hanging back and sniping loses games. I'm happy to hunt destroyers. I actually enjoy it. But I'm not doing it for any battleship than plays like a sniper. ANY argument a battleship can make about taking damage applies 10x for cruisers, so don't bother.

 

Edited by DingBat
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See, I play all three main surface ships, cruisers, battleships, and destroyers (Fletcher mostly). And you're right that cruisers should hunt down destroyers...but there is a small issue. Destroyers are hard to detect when they want to be. What does that mean? That means cruisers have to push up. Not many cruisers are good at being the tip of the spear. When I sail my Myoko, or my Hindenburg, or Belfast, or any other cruiser, if I get spotted....and i'm in front...my crew are already preparing to abandon ship. Not to say that I always die instantly, I generally don't. But if I take a 50% damage salvo through the bow...well, I'm not going to push for you any more. I tend to spec my cruisers for stealth/range, so I can get as close to the target before getting spotted to do my best to ensure a first-strike ability. There have been times that said first strike was the only strike I was able to get, and times where it was merely the opening salvo to a 120k+ damage game.

 

 Now, when playing battleships, I want to be that tip of the spear. I have the armor. I have the health. I have the guns. But if I have no support I am not going to sit 10km infront of my cruiser fleet and allow myself to get shot to s....splinters, just so you don't get your precious paint scratched. Passive play is a sure way to lose, just as overly extending in the opening minutes is a sure way to die.

 

And finally, when in destroyers, want to know what class I fear the most, even in Fletcher? Other destroyers. My Fletcher has a 5.8km surface detectability range. That is phenomenally small. But so help me if I end up with an enemy DD who has the boilers to charge. Because when that happens, they tend to be other USN or VMF DDs and they are almost always backed up by their cruisers and battleships.

 

TL,DR; Support your fellow ships, win games.

Edited by TabbyHopkins
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:red_button:  We have 3 fouls on the play.

Foul #1 Clickbait Topic has nothing to do with the thread. Disapointing look and one shame on you


 

Foul#2   insufficent use ofthe search button (http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/106877-please-counter-dds/) . one C'mon man!


 

Foul#3 illegal formation, use of the #1 follwing the word 'Rant' when there is no #2.  Result of the combined penalties One Downvote

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Cruiser should push up with DD's and use the smoke. 

 

Have the DD lay a smoke into cap , then have the DD leave the smoke and spot any potential DD's contesting. 

 

That way you are safe from big bad BB fire and you thin out the DD crowd rather quickly.

 

In my Edinburgh especially with a 9km detection, sharing is caring. 

 

"Hey Mahan/Farragut/Benson/Fletcher/Gearing/Any DD with smoke puffs" 

 

"Il trade you close fire support for smoke<3? "

 

"Roger that!" 

 

The only thing is that you want the DD to stay out of his smoke in order to spot hostile DD's. 

 

 

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As a player of all three with a bias towards playing cruisers I agree with the general sentiment that (especially at higher tiers) it's just way too punishing to play a cruiser out front. My playstyle changes wildly depending on the number of BBs in a match, 3 per team or less and I'm willing to be a whole lot more aggressive, 5+ and I'm gonna sit at max range and snipe, or find a handy island to hide behind until the herd of ships that can gut me *from any angle is thinned out some.

 

I do know that the team with the most DDs late usually wins and do what I can to influence that, I just also know that getting deleted quick usually makes me very angry, though I did just the other day trade my Zao for a Khab and a Z-46 in the opening minuets with a smile on my face as the khab over extended and I'll trade any ship I'm in for one of them any time (I hate Khabs), the german was just bonus... then I got my cit eviscerated by a Montana but it was worth it. 

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I agree that cruisers should hunt DD's but you have to understand that to do so the cruisers have to be fairly far forward. And then all the red ships fire at the cruisers and sink it easily. 

 

They don't need to be that far forward actually. DDs will spot each other at about 6km when contesting a cap, so CA parked 5-6km behind a friendly DD ends up being 10-12km from the enemy DD and 15km+ from the nearest enemy CA/BB.
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As a BB main, surprisingly the best teammates have been friendly DDs.  Nothing is worse than seeing a DD pop up at ~6km and seeing all your friendly CAs pounding away at a BB which is 12-15km away.  I try to hang out with my friendly DDs, they at least will help out.

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Cruisers don't want to die to BB snipers... Kind of hypocritical IMO.  Don't want to get deleted in your cruiser, so hang back and twiddle your thumbs?  No, you hang back and ~gasp~... Snipe.  To be fair, it's more of a machine gun "spray and pray", but the point is criticizing BB's for staying too far back and sniping, then state that cruisers are not going to get close enough to kill DD's.  So.. Cruiser sniping.

 

To be honest, when I see this kind of playing (BB's included), I don't try to "carry" or make the best of it.  I sail straight into a cap and farm as much damage as I can before dying (usually to torps, from DD's).  I'd rather play another ship in another match than spend 15 minutes dodging torps to live through a defeat by points.  Go ahead and check my stats for survivability.  It's low because I don't hang back.  I sometimes go into a game with the intention of not dying early, but get bored and end up crashing a cap anyway.  It's just not in me.  I've started grinding the German BB line, so at least my ship choice will better match my aggressiveness.

 

And on a final note, if no one commits, nothing happens.  The BB's will probably not get close to a cap if the Cruisers and DD's avoid it or park themselves in smoke.  So the whole "I'm not going in first" attitude just leads to overall team fail.

Edited by Kerrec

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Cruisers can hunt DD's but some are more suited to do so than others, don't assume all cruisers are going to specifically hunt down DD's just because they're cruisers. 

 

Foresight is the most important tool and an absolute must for higher tier BB play, especially considering how dangerous it is for a cruiser to expose themselves hunting after a destroyer. It's better to know what areas are going to be saturated with DD's and decide whether or not to go in or proceed with caution than to actively rely on teammates to fufill this pre-conceived notion of a role. This mindset of "hurr cruisers hunt DD's because muh rock paper scissors gameplay" doesn't translate well into skilled high tier gameplay. 

Edited by Arlios
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DDs should first hunt enemy DDs and then others and Cruisers should only incidentally hunt enemy DDs as the opportunity arises.

 

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Cruisers can hunt DD's but some are more suited to do so than others, don't assume all cruisers are going to specifically hunt down DD's just because they're cruisers. 

 

Foresight is the most important tool and an absolute must for higher tier BB play, especially considering how dangerous it is for a cruiser to expose themselves hunting after a destroyer. It's better to know what areas are going to be saturated with DD's and decide whether or not to go in or proceed with caution than to actively rely on teammates to fufill this pre-conceived notion of a role. This mindset of "hurr cruisers hunt DD's because muh rock paper scissors gameplay" doesn't translate well into skilled high tier gameplay. 

 

Hey Arlios really enjoy your youtube content. Keep up the good work! 

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Maybe if battleships came up and brought their secondary armaments into play to support their team at the beginning of the game that would help. Sick of seeing late game battleships that have not taken a single hit while the rest of their team is dead.

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Cruisers can hunt DD's but some are more suited to do so than others, don't assume all cruisers are going to specifically hunt down DD's just because they're cruisers. 

 

Foresight is the most important tool and an absolute must for higher tier BB play, especially considering how dangerous it is for a cruiser to expose themselves hunting after a destroyer. It's better to know what areas are going to be saturated with DD's and decide whether or not to go in or proceed with caution than to actively rely on teammates to fufill this pre-conceived notion of a role. This mindset of "hurr cruisers hunt DD's because muh rock paper scissors gameplay" doesn't translate well into skilled high tier gameplay. 

 

DD's need to die first, period. Doesn't matter who hunts them.  It burns my boat (har har) to see a fast firing cruiser launch a rainbow of shells at a BB 20km away (maybe a bit of an exageration) while DD's are capping points at another part of the map.

 

I play BB's mostly, although I do play DD's to understand my enemy.  If no one else is going to detect and shoot at DD's, then I WILL do it myself.  Regardless of how likely that will end with me at the bottom.

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Cruisers can hunt DD's but some are more suited to do so than others, don't assume all cruisers are going to specifically hunt down DD's just because they're cruisers. 

 

 

We don't assume that all of them are going to do that. However, it has nothing to do with ship type - some CA players know what their job is, and others spend their days trying to pad their damage stat. As simple as that.

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Maybe if battleships came up and brought their secondary armaments into play to support their team at the beginning of the game that would help. Sick of seeing late game battleships that have not taken a single hit while the rest of their team is dead.

 

And as a BB main I'm sick of watching my team abandon me while doing nothing as I'm taking those hits you're asking for.
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:red_button:  We have 3 fouls on the play.

Foul #1 Clickbait Topic has nothing to do with the thread. Disapointing look and one shame on you

 

 

Foul#2   insufficent use ofthe search button (http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/106877-please-counter-dds/) . one C'mon man!

 

 

Foul#3 illegal formation, use of the #1 follwing the word 'Rant' when there is no #2.  Result of the combined penalties One Downvote

 

Coach is calling a time out an disputing the calls... foul#3 is a bad call... the point of the post is for others to Pitch Their Beach too. Looking for someone to put down a number two rant. I suspect the ref could fall into the rant category but it would be unintentional.  Clearly it's stated at the end of the OP. 

 

The other two fouls, meh... it was indeed a rant... a match was lost because a cruiser within spitting distance of me and red DDs was instead targeting BBs at least 10km away - that was the point. 

 

But  hey.. it's the afternoon now and I'd forgetten all about it. :-) 

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As a BB main, surprisingly the best teammates have been friendly DDs.  Nothing is worse than seeing a DD pop up at ~6km and seeing all your friendly CAs pounding away at a BB which is 12-15km away.  I try to hang out with my friendly DDs, they at least will help out.

 

Very good point... I generally tend to follow the nearest DDs into the early engagements. Thanks for reminding me/us of a very useful tactic. 

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As an habitual driver of underage ships...no.  Cruisers can be a hindrance, and a couple of them working together with radar can be a danger, but unless I screwed up and got myself focus fired they aren't going to sink me.  Other destroyers are going to sink me, unless I can sink them first.  Heck, in my own experience at least friendly torpedo cruisers are more of a danger to me than enemy ones. :teethhappy:

 

I think that what a lot of Warships players fail to fully understand is that "support" flows in numerous different directions all at once.  Destroyers need to support the other ships by leading the way out front, spotting enemy ships, and capturing key objectives.  Cruisers need to support the destroyers by adding their fire against whatever targets the destroyers find.  Battleships need to support their cruisers and destroyers by dealing out their huge alpha strikes to delete enemy cruisers and punish enemy battleships, ideally while tanking damage that the smaller ships can't bear up to.  Carriers need to support the battleships with fighter coverage and support the destroyers and cruisers with air strikes.  If one piece of the puzzle doesn't pull their weight, the whole thing stops working.

 

Too many players consider "support" to be whatever immediately benefits them.  Which is why you get battleship drivers who wandered off away from the main body screaming for help against the enemy destroyer that's lobbing torpedoes at them, cruisers crying to the battleships to tank more damage so they don't have to expose their citadels, destroyers screaming for air cover and/or someone to take out that radar cruiser, and carriers screaming for help because they either sat in the spawn too long or charged too fast into what they thought was the main thrust.

 

All that being said, destroyers truly are the best counter to destroyers in this game (excepting those few, good carrier captains).  But in order to kill the enemy destroyers, they do need the big ships to suck up some fire from the big ships on the other side...when that doesn't happen, they pop smoke and hide and cry about their "noob team" after they eat a torpedo.  Well, let's be honest: a lot of the time they cry about their "noob team" after they eat a torpedo even when they do get proper support.  As a battleship driver, that leaves you with a pretty simple task: tank all the damage while getting in close to bring your secondaries to bear, but not too close so the destroyers and cruisers can't line up torpedo shots, and prioritize enemy cruisers to protect your destroyers while also prioritizing enemy battleships to protect your cruisers, all while avoiding overextending yourself and getting sunk by 20 torpedoes which just shows what a noob you are.  Then, once you've done all of that, the destroyers can focus on their primary task of sinking all the enemy destroyers while capturing all the objectives, laying down smoke screens to cover the cruisers and battleships, spotting all the enemy ships all the time, sinking the enemy battleships with their overpowered torpedoes, rushing across the map to defend the flank nobody else thought to cover, and sinking the enemy carrier so the friendly carrier can keep all 11 other enemy ships spotted for the battleships and cruisers to kill because the destroyers weren't spotting them enough.  Meanwhile, the cruisers just have to sit back protecting the battleships from air attacks and enemy destroyers while also rushing forward to assist the destroyers with captures and not showing their broadsides to anything, ever, and trying not to torpedo the green ships too much.  And of course all of the ships need to take care not to steal anyone else's kills and not to sail into anybody's way and definitely not to bump into anyone for any reason.  And to type "poi" in the game chat because it shows you're hip, but to do it ironically because it shows you're not uncool, just so long as you do it with subtle irony so nobody on either side of the poi fence will be offended.

 

I think I got off on a tangent.  Merry Christmas?

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First off, if you think a BB should be taking point at any time if there are enemy DD's nearby or unaccounted for, then you are sadly mistaken. You do not have the health to take a full spread of torps from a DD (and/or cruisers), and you don't have the maneuverability (in most cases) to dodge torps without adequate warning, which you typically won't have if you are in front of your allies.

 

From my experience, each type of ship plays a useful and important role.  DDs primarily cap, spot, and take out enemy DDs (if they can) and punish/harass enemy BBs with torps.  CAs need to focus on supporting the friendly DDs by helping to eliminate enemy DDs first, and also enemy CAs that are shooting at friendly DDs.  BBs support friendly DDs and CAs by taking out enemy CAs (primarily) and punishing enemy BBs that go broadside.  This applies most especially early game.  I am not suggesting that ships sit back and snipe, although that is certainly an option early (or if one is low health).  I believe that the most important thing is target priority and supporting your allies.  Honestly, IMO, BBs are most often more useful early game shooting at enemy CAs and not enemy BBs. CAs are easier to kill, and each enemy killed means fewer enemy guns in mid to late game ... besides which fewer CAs makes life easier for your friendly DDs.  Also keep in mind focus firing as a team. Again, removal of an enemy ship is a win in the long run. As long as an enemy is alive they are going to be doing damage to yourself or an ally.

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Well i just got the yammy, and i find myself playing my BB the same as i did my DD.  Im trying to do all the things in my BB that i wanted from a standpoint of a DD player, its not working.  The two point cap strategy is worthless, giving up a cap uncontested is a sin in my book and allows the opposing team to blow through a point while my team sits and spins around the other two points.  The inevitable result is we lose all three points and im declared a shitter because of my win rate.   So, how do i correct this when I solo join games and rely on my team. Now i know doing well does nothing, ive had matches of 230k damage with 5 ships killed and still lost the match.  How does win rate reflect on me when I do well and still lose, do i need to kill all 12 ships every match?  Am I doing something wrong? At the very least i try to take one enemy ships with me.   So whats the key to a higher win rate?

Edited by DQCraze

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Well now... thanks for the overturned penalty - yay. Much appreciated.

 

I like these threads, I start these threads so I can refill my knowledge base on skills and tactics. It's also good to know others experience similar situations from time to time. 

 

You can't push a Tier X BB like you can a Tier VIII, say the Bismarck. My GK is like a frickin huge parking lot... as others (and I) have said, you just cant dance torps that easily with it... but I'm getting a solid take away from the thread.... 

 

We all have general categories our ship type/class expects us to fill. This is by design, by the devs, who work diligently to ensure the game balance (and mechanics) continue to work in a certain fashion. Would not work well without the imposed balance. Where I'm feeling it breaks down in random is folks either not knowing about this or knowing about it and not caring. The best matches are those where the knowledge gels together on both teams. Those are not so common but man they are fun.

 

I think I play because I seek those matches. tia for your comments. 

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