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behindurback

why is IJN cruiser AP better than German AP, makes no sense

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why is it that the IJN AP shells on the Zao is more reliable and better than the Hindenburg AP shells??

literally makes no sense given how German cruisers line is supposed to be this AP focused cruiser line while IJN is supposed to be HE focused

except the AP on Atago and Zao is better than the AP on the Hipper and Hindenburg, except just the max potential damage numbers. 

 

right now  Atago is >>> HIpper and Zao is >>> Hindenburg

 

Edit: give German Cruisers the ability to have both Hydro and Def AA at the same time. so that even though they have both poop AP and poop HE at least they got that going for them

Edited by behindurback

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Because the IJN made the best of everything and the only reason they lost is because the Allies had more stuff.  Specifically, WG has said that the American stuff was average at best and we won through sheer numbers.  

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why is it that the IJN AP shells on the Zao is more reliable and better than the Hindenburg AP shells??

literally makes no sense given how German cruisers line is supposed to be this AP focused cruiser line while IJN is supposed to be HE focused

except the AP on Atago and Zao is better than the AP on the Hipper and Hindenburg, except just the max potential damage numbers. 

 

right now  Atago is >>> HIpper and Zao is >>> Hindenburg

 

I feel your pain, I wish they would buff the penetrative power of the german AP since that is what they're known for

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I feel your pain, I wish they would buff the penetrative power of the german AP since that is what they're known for

 

thats what they are supposed to be for, AP cruisers, except they are not

so what exactly is the german Cruisers role then? they are not AP cruisers, not HE cruisers, maybe just exp pinata?

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Vs BBs Zao is better

Vs cruisers Zao is better, bc just slight angling will negate 90% of Hindenburg's AP dmg, while zao can still burn you down

VS DDs zao is better, bc that zao HE salvo will wreck DDs

 

only thing is the AA on HIndenburg is better, but give how theres not many CVs around, whats the point

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thats what they are supposed to be for, AP cruisers, except they are not

so what exactly is the german Cruisers role then? they are not AP cruisers, not HE cruisers, maybe just exp pinata?

 

I can verify that they are indeed exp pinata's

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Because the IJN made the best of everything and the only reason they lost is because the Allies had more stuff.  Specifically, WG has said that the American stuff was average at best and we won through sheer numbers.  

 

They had excellent ships and captains, but doctrine and leadership (without Yamamoto) was pretty poor. For example, we had a long vulnerable supply line, but they only used fleet subs against warships and did not engage in commerce raiding. 

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They had excellent ships and captains, but doctrine and leadership (without Yamamoto) was pretty poor. For example, we had a long vulnerable supply line, but they only used fleet subs against warships and did not engage in commerce raiding. 

 

Did their doctrine not consider commerce raiding, or were the sub captains looking to cover themselves in glory by bagging a BB and therefore ignoring "boring" transport ships?

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They really need to buff the penetrative power of the AP, otherwise the german cruiser line is worthless. It's also performing the worst statistically

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Because the IJN made the best of everything and the only reason they lost is because the Allies had more stuff.  Specifically, WG has said that the American stuff was average at best and we won through sheer numbers.  

 

It varied though the war depending on the circumstances, but as a gross generalisation Japanese and British AP was better than US and Nazi German AP. I don't have any information on Soviet naval projectiles other than they were very well shaped and tended to be heavier than average. Both US and Nazi German AP was prone to duds. 

 

How WG chooses to reflect this in game in another thing. They ignore the appalling dud rate of US torpedoes, so ignoring or mitigating the poor performance of the Nazi German AP is also possible. 

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They had excellent ships and captains, but doctrine and leadership (without Yamamoto) was pretty poor. For example, we had a long vulnerable supply line, but they only used fleet subs against warships and did not engage in commerce raiding. 

 

I remember reading in Saburo Sakai bio that one of the final tests of selecting new pilots was performing acrobatics off a 10 metre platform onto dirt. Less than 1 in 100 pilots passed to become pilots of the Tinian air group. Tactically the Japanese navy did well in the very early part of the war, but with no logistical support and no new production, it was always going to end badly. 
Edited by Rabidnid3

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Did their doctrine not consider commerce raiding, or were the sub captains looking to cover themselves in glory by bagging a BB and therefore ignoring "boring" transport ships?

Doctrine did not consider raiding. 

 

Their personal feelings may have factored into the creation of the doctrine but it still makes the point that lack of ships is not the only reason they lost 

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It varied though the war depending on the circumstances, but as a gross generalisation Japanese and British AP was better than US and Nazi German AP. I don't have any information on Soviet naval projectiles other than they were very well shaped and tended to be heavier than average. Both US and Nazi German AP was prone to duds. 

 

How WG chooses to reflect this in game in another thing. They ignore the appalling dud rate of US torpedoes, so ignoring or mitigating the poor performance of the Nazi German AP is also possible. 

USN AP tended to have excellent ballistics and penetration which is reflected in the high Krupp values for the shells and good bounce angles. Soviet shells were high velocity and at least for the later large caliber shells had weak shell walls which resulted in them breaking up instead of penetrating well angled or armored ships. The German cruisers are handicapped by using the same AP shell used at tier 8 which no other cruiser line is stuck with, however they have good rof and lots of guns which somewhat compensates. 

 

Wg does not count duds at all just like they don't count torpedoes blowing up in their tubes. 

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Le balanced IJN Cruisers OSfrog

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Did their doctrine not consider commerce raiding, or were the sub captains looking to cover themselves in glory by bagging a BB and therefore ignoring "boring" transport ships?

 

Their doctrine was to force a decisive, large-scale battle. To that end, their fleet boats were directed to attack warships to try to tip the balance more in their favor when the big engagement happened.

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I've been trying to get tier 8 - 10 cits for one of my Campaign objectives. The Roon and Hindenburg fell short or just didn't get the opportunity. I took out the DM, and racked up 4 cits in my first outing.  The Baltimore was a cit machine as well.

Edited by Rusty_Bucket__

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eh IJN AP is more consistent versus angling than the Hindenburg is....as in Hindy AP can perform glorious 12k AP salvos on Yamato  at broadside even at ranges of 17km. However slight angling (not even auto bounce angle) and German AP is rendered ineffective. I believe this has to do with the fuses of German AP.

 

IJN AP does not suffer as much against angled armor. USN AP, as Zim said, have excellent ballistics (dont know if USN CA also use a variant of heavy shells :yes_cap:) which can attribute to their ability to "smack" ships as well

 

VMF is just VMF, they're rich in stalinium

 

 Ew98FWF.png

ogoemoF.png

German AP is great, just got to know when to use it. I'd take it over IJN AP, and if DM and Balt didnt have terrible arcs I prefer them. Its not the, end all, be all, "Final Solution" :trollface:

:popcorn:

Edited by Combined_Fleet_HQ

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It's because Zao uses a super heavy shell with very high muzzle velocity.

 

There is no such thing as "prematurely wearing out a gun" in WoWs, so ridiculously OP super charged super heavy shell being flung from Zao and Moskva get an unfair advantage.

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Because the IJN made the best of everything and the only reason they lost is because the Allies had more stuff.  Specifically, WG has said that the American stuff was average at best and we won through sheer numbers.  

 

You had to have known the can of worms you were openning up with that :D

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Because the IJN made the best of everything and the only reason they lost is because the Allies had more stuff.  Specifically, WG has said that the American stuff was average at best and we won through sheer numbers.  

156961-hes-right-you-know-meme-3QsX.jpeg

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It's because Zao uses a super heavy shell with very high muzzle velocity.

 

There is no such thing as "prematurely wearing out a gun" in WoWs, so ridiculously OP super charged super heavy shell being flung from Zao and Moskva get an unfair advantage.

 

The Des Moines says "hi there"

 

"There are mechanical engineers out there who say, what little boys used to say about the elephant. There aint no such animal. But there is, and this is it"

 

Yes, there is such thing. It existed.

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They actually aren't. German AP is downright nasty with higher initial velocity and more damage per shell.

 

However

 

The German shells are lighter so they lose energy faster at long range, which evens out and, at longer ranges, the heavier IJN shell retains more energy as a result and can penetrate a bit more at those ranges.

 

Within 10km German AP is king. The real question you should ask is why British AP is so much better.

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They actually aren't. German AP is downright nasty with higher initial velocity and more damage per shell.

 

However

 

The German shells are lighter so they lose energy faster at long range, which evens out and, at longer ranges, the heavier IJN shell retains more energy as a result and can penetrate a bit more at those ranges.

 

Within 10km German AP is king. The real question you should ask is why British AP is so much better.

 

and how many times do you get within 10km of an enemy ship in the tier 10 camp fest meta?

anytime that happens its either end game or its yolo time and you're about to die

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and how many times do you get within 10km of an enemy ship in the tier 10 camp fest meta?

anytime that happens its either end game or its yolo time and you're about to die

 

Not often which is why German cruisers are suffering.

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