Future BB Schtoff: Lines, Nations, Ships, etc.

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

2017's coming up, and with the developments of the past year in World of Warships, we've got an interesting road ahead of us as far as battleships are concerned. Here I'm offering a breakdown of a few key subjects regarding battleships in the game, and where things might (or could) go with them, at least in the next year:

---

(1) FUTURE MAIN LINES

 

I at the very least am satisfied with the way the German BB line turned out, I dunno about y'all. Yes, still bitter about the hulls of Konig and Kaiser, but whatever. They offer their own advantageous and disadvantageous traits, and make for interesting and dynamic gameplay. Hopefully this bodes well for the production of future lines.

Crossing my fingers that we don't just get one BB line this year. Given the change in development strategy (at least according to what WG claims they are doing), I'd say there is a chance of maybe having two lines released, or at the very least one new faction line and one new sub-branch. But maybe it's foolish to hope.

 

In any case, I think it's fairly clear that Royal Navy battleships are next in line: if not, French ones, and even if so, France is more or less obviously to follow. When will we see them? I dunno, though given WG's recent pace I'd wager a hopeful guess of February, a less-than-hopeful guess of April. Who knows.

To get to the juice, the tech line (as far as many BB-forumers are concerned) is likely to be something like as follows:

Dreadnought or Belleraphon or tier III, Orion (maybe Neptune?) at tier IV, Iron Duke at tier V, Queen Elizabeth or Revenge at tier VI, Nelson or King George V or Vanguard somewhere along tiers VII, VIII, and maybe IX (lot of opinions on the preferred tierage of each ship, some jonesing for one of those 3 becoming premium), and Lion or N3 for tiers IX and/or X.

Lion might end up being part of a separate BC-themed tech-tree, but who knows. At the very least, Dreadnought, Orion, Iron Duke, Queen Elizabeth/Revenge, Nelson, King George V, Vanguard, and N3 are almost certain to show up in the tree or as a premium depending on the ship.

 

France only has 7 solid battleships or battleship designs to choose from, so there isn't much point discussing the options, since all are shoe-ins and WG will dig up or make up some more paper designs to finish the tree. Though it is interesting that they took the lead ship Dunkerque out of her class to maker her a premium. So obviously there is still some wait-and-see as far as what WG will do with French battleships.

 

(2) FUTURE NATIONS

 

Everyone's favorite topic. Knowing that Britain and France are already guaranteed to be next, who comes afterwards? I'd put my money on the Italians, unless WG decides to "Russian Bias" and throw in Russki/Soviet BBs first. Which isn't too out of the question, especially since they'd need to release Italian cruisers first. Which they will, since Italy had a phenomenal and large-enough cruiser program back in the ol' Kingdom days.

 

As far as the Italians go, they are much like the French, with only 6 or so solid ships and designs to choose from, though this obviously won't stop WG. Nor should it. The question simply becomes, which premium Italian ship will come out first? I'm expecting it to be a cruiser in all honesty, so for this thread that doesn't even matter. Though a premium Regina Elena or Dante Alighieri at tier III may be interesting. I for one do NOT want a premium Roma. No sir. Keep her in the regular tree, please. Though given her status as an upgraded version of her two younger sisters, it's not out of the question...

 

Russian battleships and battlecruisers? I don't want to even get into that. Soooooo many threads about that already, so many theories/wants, and so many designs to choose from. It's a mess trying to figure it out and I don't have the time for that right now (hehe). Though I did churn out this list a while ago in an earlier thread:

III- Gangut-prototype

IV- Gangut

V- Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya

VI- Oktyabrskaya Revolutsyia/ Borodino

VII- Stalingrad

VIII- Kronstadt

IX- TZZ-prototype

X- Sovetsky Soyuz

 

(3) FUTURE SUB-BRANCHES

 

Ah, yes, the stuff of dreams! Hopefully not for too much longer, of course. This is probably what I'm looking most forward to. Sooooo many directions to go with this!

The Brits have a swath of strange or unique battleships they built for foreign navies or themselves, so that'd be one relatively easy option. Another could be to go for a battlecruiser-themed sub-branch, which I'd almost die for. A thread I started a while back had this as the ideal setup:

III. Invincible/Indefatigable

IV. Lion/Queen Mary

V. Tiger

VI. Renown

VII. Hood

 

I had something similar for the Germans, who could have a BC sub-branch themselves:

III. Von der Tann

IV. Moltke

V. Derfflinger

VI. Mackensen

VII. Ersatz Yorck

 

Of course, what are we MOST likely to see first? American battleships. Which I would also pretty much die for. Mostly because I am a huge fan of the South Dakota class, especially the USS Massachusetts (WHY THE HELL IS THE ALABAMA PREMIUM AND NOT HER???), and want to play them badly. Also, the earlier South Dakota designs could make a cool new class or two. As could the Lexington or Saratoga battlecruiser designs. Plus the Alaska-class, maybe...point is, lots of options, and probably the most likely one we will see first, given the arrival of the Alabama.

---

That's all for now, folks.

[IJN_Cruiser_Jintsuu]

WG have confirmed Russian DDs are in fact the next line the are making, not British, French or Italians. 

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

WG have confirmed Russian DDs are in fact the next line the are making, not British, French or Italians. 

 

I'm referring purely to battleships, if that wasn't clear. Purely BBs. British BBs are the next BBs to show up. Clear?

 

I know Russki DDs come first, and I implied that I'd expect another cruiser line before we get any new BBs.

[Wulfgarn]

Pan Asian is coming, but no clue what ships.

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/12/14/wows-more-pan-asia-ships-coming/

[ferret_airlift]

I like the idea of Neptune rather than Orion. From a game play standpoint there just isn't a lot of difference between orion and Iron Duke

[Dunk_Master_Flex]

There really isn't much debate with Royal Navy battleships.

 

Tier III - HMS Dreadnought

 

Tier IV - Orion class (The Colossus class are Tier 3.5 battleships like the Florida class, therefore don't measure up to Kaiser and Wyoming.)

 

Tier V - Iron Duke class

 

Tier VI - Queen Elizabeth class or Revenge class

 

Tier VII - Nelson class

 

Tier VIII - King George V class or HMS Vanguard

 

Tier IX - Lion design

 

Tier X - Late Lion class design, N3, L3 or L-III design. 

 

I'd much rather have KGV as the Tier VIII but Wargaming could put Vanguard there.

[Dunk_Master_Flex]

I like the idea of Neptune rather than Orion. From a game play standpoint there just isn't a lot of difference between orion and Iron Duke

 

The Colossus class isn't enough for Tier IV, what makes you think the worse Neptune class would be?

 

Neptune has lower hitpoints, smaller caliber secondary guns, less armor and older guns than even Colossus.

 

Orion is a perfect Tier IV. 

 

Iron Duke is a perfect candidate for Tier V, falling in line well with Konig and New York.

[Lert]

I would personally think Sovetsky Soyuz is a tier 9 candidate, not tier 10. Ofcourse, WG can fudge the numbers to make her work at either tier, and I haven't really looked at her vitals in-depth ...

[Guest]

I would personally think Sovetsky Soyuz is a tier 9 candidate, not tier 10. Ofcourse, WG can fudge the numbers to make her work at either tier, and I haven't really looked at her vitals in-depth ...

 

Its likely another paper design will be placed at tier 10. This is because while the Soyuz has decent statistics for tier 9, it would be woefully underpowered for its tiers without either fictional upgrades, or increased stats. 

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

There really isn't much debate with Royal Navy battleships.

 

Tier III - HMS Dreadnought

 

Tier IV - Orion class (The Colossus class are Tier 3.5 battleships like the Florida class, therefore don't measure up to Kaiser and Wyoming.)

 

Tier V - Iron Duke class

 

Tier VI - Queen Elizabeth class or Revenge class

 

Tier VII - Nelson class

 

Tier VIII - King George V class or HMS Vanguard

 

Tier IX - Lion design

 

Tier X - Late Lion class design, N3, L3 or L-III design. 

 

I'd much rather have KGV as the Tier VIII but Wargaming could put Vanguard there.

 

I've seen debate. Particularly about tiers 7 onwards, though I for one generally agree with your list. Some want/suggested no Lion and the Vanguard as tier IX, others feel the Nelson should be tier VIII on account of her guns.

 

WG may choose to make the Dreadnought premium, because...well you know. Famous. At least, some have suggested that WG might do that. I dunno myself, but if they did obviously the Belleraphon is the alternative.

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

I would personally think Sovetsky Soyuz is a tier 9 candidate, not tier 10. Ofcourse, WG can fudge the numbers to make her work at either tier, and I haven't really looked at her vitals in-depth ...

 

Makes enough sense. Again, this was simply from a list I scratched together a while ago, whereas right now, after looking through designs more, I have no clue what I'd put for many/most tiers.

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

Pan Asian is coming, but no clue what ships.

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/12/14/wows-more-pan-asia-ships-coming/

 

Battleships though? As far as I know only Japan made them in the Asian region.

[Dunk_Master_Flex]

 

I've seen debate. Particularly about tiers 7 onwards, though I for one generally agree with your list. Some want/suggested no Lion and the Vanguard as tier IX, others feel the Nelson should be tier VIII on account of her guns.

 

WG may choose to make the Dreadnought premium, because...well you know. Famous. At least, some have suggested that WG might do that. I dunno myself, but if they did obviously the Belleraphon is the alternative.

 

I don't think they will put Dreadnought as a premium because even with her famous nature, it would break the trend of Tier III being a nations first battleship.

 

Nelson should not be a Tier VIII, that makes no sense. Her guns are worse than Colorado and Nagato, being arguably some of the worst 16 inch guns ever made. Having her at Tier VIII would be hellish with that 23 knot speed.

 

Vanguard is also only a Tier VIII ship, either premium or tech tree. She doesn't have the guns to be placed higher.

 

Lion on the other hand has enough designs to fill Tier IX and X.

[Boomax77]

Hey! Someone else who is in love with the Massachusetts! Once a year for 9 years slept over on her <3

 

If the whole Alabama situation had been with the Massachusetts instead... Oh boi, WG would have to face my wrath lol.

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

Hey! Someone else who is in love with the Massachusetts! Once a year for 9 years slept over on her <3

 

If the whole Alabama situation had been with the Massachusetts instead... Oh boi, WG would have to face my wrath lol.

 

I would have bought her. And man, she actually sank ships, fought on both fronts, downed shittons of planes, fired the first and last main battery US BB shells of WWII, never lost a man in combat...the list goes on! She DESERVES to be premium. Alabama didn't do [edited]crapin comparison to her.

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

 

I don't think they will put Dreadnought as a premium because even with her famous nature, it would break the trend of Tier III being a nations first battleship.

 

Nelson should not be a Tier VIII, that makes no sense. Her guns are worse than Colorado and Nagato, being arguably some of the worst 16 inch guns ever made. Having her at Tier VIII would be hellish with that 23 knot speed.

 

Vanguard is also only a Tier VIII ship, either premium or tech tree. She doesn't have the guns to be placed higher.

 

Lion on the other hand has enough designs to fill Tier IX and X.

 

Agreed. I was just sayin' what I had heard before.

[Phoenix_jz]

Russian BBs were confirmed for 2017, but we might get British BBs in 2017 as well... I dunno the order though. The next two would be Framce, then Italy.

 

As far as Italy's BBs go, Dante is very likely as a premium at tier IV (a less OP Nikolai, basically), as Italy's first Dreadnought, and the first Battleship with triple turrets. Roma won't be a line ship, she's not different from her sisters in a significant way enough to be a separate line ship... She's certainly eligible for premium status given her fame, though I personally prefer her sister Vittorio Veneto, who had a better career as far as battles go.

 

The only other option for a premium would even one of the modernized BBs at tier V, either Andrea Doria or Giulio Cesare...

 

As far as the actual tree line goes, this is what we (forum guys, Demom93 in particular) have come up with;

 

Tier III:

Cuniberti 17,000 ton design- the world's first Dreadnought design.

 

Tier IV: Caio Duilio or Conte di Cavour in their original WWI form.

 

Tier V: Caio Duilio or Conte di Cavour in their rebuilt WWII form.

 

Tier VI: Francesco Caracciolo- think of an Italian version of Warspite or Bayern. But, it goes 28kts.

 

Tier VII: Proto-Littorio - a variety of designs could work here, basically the early designs for the Littorio class.

 

Tier VIII: Littorio-class

 

Tier IX: UP.41 - Italian version. There were a variety of designs developed past Littorio... One of them, the most famous, was converted by Ansaldo for Russia as the 'UP.41" Think an up-armored Littorio with 16in guns.

 

Tier X: 4-16/16-40 - a design Demon found, 60,000+ tons, 29kts, 406mm belt, and 4x quad turrets with 16in guns.

 

[Yevgraf_Andreiivich]

Russian BBs were confirmed for 2017, but we might get British BBs in 2017 as well... I dunno the order though. The next two would be Framce, then Italy.

 

As far as Italy's BBs go, Dante is very likely as a premium at tier IV (a less OP Nikolai, basically), as Italy's first Dreadnought, and the first Battleship with triple turrets. Roma won't be a line ship, she's not different from her sisters in a significant way enough to be a separate line ship... She's certainly eligible for premium status given her fame, though I personally prefer her sister Vittorio Veneto, who had a better career as far as battles go.

 

The only other option for a premium would even one of the modernized BBs at tier V, either Andrea Doria or Giulio Cesare...

 

As far as the actual tree line goes, this is what we (forum guys, Demom93 in particular) have come up with;

 

Tier III:

Cuniberti 17,000 ton design- the world's first Dreadnought design.

 

Tier IV: Caio Duilio or Conte di Cavour in their original WWI form.

 

Tier V: Caio Duilio or Conte di Cavour in their rebuilt WWII form.

 

Tier VI: Francesco Caracciolo- think of an Italian version of Warspite or Bayern. But, it goes 28kts.

 

Tier VII: Proto-Littorio - a variety of designs could work here, basically the early designs for the Littorio class.

 

Tier VIII: Littorio-class

 

Tier IX: UP.41 - Italian version. There were a variety of designs developed past Littorio... One of them, the most famous, was converted by Ansaldo for Russia as the 'UP.41" Think an up-armored Littorio with 16in guns.

 

Tier X: 4-16/16-40 - a design Demon found, 60,000+ tons, 29kts, 406mm belt, and 4x quad turrets with 16in guns.

 

 

Nice! Been seeing a few things like this around. My own old idea lists had the same trends as yours, although I personally would have the Andrea Doria in there somewhere. Though I see why she'd be left out. Also totally agree with that tier III choice! Been jonesing for that myself. And I'm glad to here y'all have dug up some cool designs. Means we get some actual Italian flair and less WG making crapup.

 

And Russian BBs...I would be more excited, but since they sorta took the Imperator Nikolai I out of the mix by making her premium, I'm curious as to what they'd use. I'm sure there's enough designs, but I'm a fan on using as many real ships as possible, if possible. And the Niki at the very least was partially completed.

 

Russki BBs before British BBs? With the Russian DDs being expanded I'd hope not. Though knowing WG, who knows.

[ferret_airlift]

 

The Colossus class isn't enough for Tier IV, what makes you think the worse Neptune class would be?

 

Neptune has lower hitpoints, smaller caliber secondary guns, less armor and older guns than even Colossus.

 

Orion is a perfect Tier IV. 

 

Iron Duke is a perfect candidate for Tier V, falling in line well with Konig and New York.

 

OP suggested Neptune, so I went with that.

 

My issue with Orion is that she's Iron Duke with a few less hitpoints and smaller caliber secondaries. Same guns, same layout, functionally identical armor, same speed. It would be like having Fuso as tier six and Ise as tier 7. (All issues with that aside, from a gameplay perspective they are functionally identical)

[Edselman]

Well I hope they add a second USN Battleship line some time soon. All the spots except for tiers 9 and 10 could be filled with ships that were real. For tier 9, I would guess maybe the South Dakota class of the early 1920's, which was the planned successor of the Colorado class being the same Super Dreadnought design with great armor but with 3 guns per turret instead of 2, totaling 12 guns. And at tier 10, I would love to see one of the Tillman designs from WWI. The Tillman designs were very large, the biggest of which being over 80,000 tons (unloaded of course) and the best protected of the designs having an 18 inch armor belt. I could see the Tillman playing at tier 10 the same way USN mid tier BBs do, not like the way the higher tier ones play because the Tillman's massive amounts of armor make it more of a Super Dreadnought than a Fast Battleship of the later era.

[Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper]

 

The Colossus class isn't enough for Tier IV, what makes you think the worse Neptune class would be?

 

Neptune has lower hitpoints, smaller caliber secondary guns, less armor and older guns than even Colossus.

 

Orion is a perfect Tier IV. 

 

Iron Duke is a perfect candidate for Tier V, falling in line well with Konig and New York.

 

Colossus is better for T4 since her armament fits with the Kaiser. Orion would be far to OP for T4 with 10 13.5 inch guns. The difference between the Iron Duke and Orion is nothing much too drastic in design.

[Lord_Magus]

 

Its likely another paper design will be placed at tier 10. This is because while the Soyuz has decent statistics for tier 9, it would be woefully underpowered for its tiers without either fictional upgrades, or increased stats. 

 

Soyuz will be big for T9, but not that big. Probably about 3300 more HP than Freddy, based on running the full load displacement through fr05ty's formula. (Though actually, does that formula use displacement in metric tons or long tons? I'm assuming metric.) The sheer thickness of Soyuz's armor is impressive, but the quality of the armor plate was rather bad. Speed is same as Izumo. So it all depends on what stats WG gives the guns, how they handle the armor and where they place the citadel. Could end up as a blend of traits from all 3 current T9 BBs (Iowa's armament, Izumo's handling, Freddy's survivability).

 

Well I hope they add a second USN Battleship line some time soon. All the spots except for tiers 9 and 10 could be filled with ships that were real. For tier 9, I would guess maybe the South Dakota class of the early 1920's, which was the planned predecessor of the Colorado class being the same Super Dreadnought design with great armor but with 3 guns per turret instead of 2, totaling 12 guns. And at tier 10, I would love to see one of the Tillman designs from WWI. The Tillman designs were very large, the biggest of which being over 80,000 tons (unloaded of course) and the best protected of the designs having an 18 inch armor belt. I could see the Tillman playing at tier 10 the same way USN mid tier BBs do, not like the way the higher tier ones play because the Tillman's massive amounts of armor make it more of a Super Dreadnought than a Fast Battleship of the later era.

 

Tillman I would be (tonnage-wise) about the same size as Montana. Though fictional refits up to WW2 standards would increase that to something probably approaching Kurfurst size. Basically a bigger, better-armored version of 1920 South Dakota with slightly better speed. At the time the USN thought the level of armor on the Tillman designs was absurd; they chose 13.5" maximum belt thickness for the 1920 SoDaks because they thought anything thicker would've compromised the metallurgy and actually weakened the armor. (With 1920 technology that might even have been true.) 26.5 knots would be the slowest of all T10s, but only a half knot slower than Yamato so it's a playable level of speed. This seems like the most viable of the Tillmans for WOWS. Tillman II and IV are just silly with 24 16" guns in sextuple turrets. Tillman III is more sane, but 13" belt and smaller HP pool might not be a good tradeoff for 30 knots of speed. Tillman IV-1 and IV-2 with their massive number of 18" guns and in IV-1 an impractical 6-turret layout (when you could get just 1 fewer barrel out of 4 turrets).

 

At any rate, I've mentioned before that USS Kearsarge would be a good name for Tillman I, on account of being the only non-state name that was ever used for a USN battleship.

 

Colossus is better for T4 since her armament fits with the Kaiser. Orion would be far to OP for T4 with 10 13.5 inch guns. The difference between the Iron Duke and Orion is nothing much too drastic in design.

 

Smaller guns but better armor is kind of the low-tier German BBs' thing. And if Orion with 10 13.5" guns is too much for T4, what does that mean for Bretagne with 10 13.4" guns? (To be fair Bretagne is also slower and less armored than Orion, but only slightly.)

 

The differences between Orion and Iron Duke are:

Iron Duke is 3000 tons heavier (more HP).

Orion has crap secondaries, Iron Duke doesn't.

Iron Duke is faster, but only by a minuscule half-knot.

Iron Duke got a post-Jutland refit to thicken the deck and citadel bulkheads.

Iron Duke fired heavier 13.5" shells than Orion.

 

WG could and presumably would adjust other soft stats to make Orion sufficiently worse than Iron Duke. Plus I'm not sure about the actual layout of the belt armor for Orion and Iron Duke. Just that the max thickness of 12" was the same. But by comparison, Kaiser has a 13.8" belt, so I don't think she'll be too bad off on account of Orion's bigger guns. On the contrary, Colossus with 11" belt and 10 12" guns would struggle to compete with Kaiser.

 

The only thing I'd worry about with Orion at T4 is how Myogi's poor firepower would compare. But since Myogi is already the worst-performing T4 BB, she'll struggle either way. Anybody know of a different pre-Kongo concept that would fare better? Or should Myogi just get some accuracy buffs to make up?

[Phoenix_jz]

 

Nice! Been seeing a few things like this around. My own old idea lists had the same trends as yours, although I personally would have the Andrea Doria in there somewhere. Though I see why she'd be left out. Also totally agree with that tier III choice! Been jonesing for that myself. And I'm glad to here y'all have dug up some cool designs. Means we get some actual Italian flair and less WG making crapup.

 

And Russian BBs...I would be more excited, but since they sorta took the Imperator Nikolai I out of the mix by making her premium, I'm curious as to what they'd use. I'm sure there's enough designs, but I'm a fan on using as many real ships as possible, if possible. And the Niki at the very least was partially completed.

 

Russki BBs before British BBs? With the Russian DDs being expanded I'd hope not. Though knowing WG, who knows.

 

Actually, I just saw the news last night that apparently they said no Russian BBs in 2017 after all, but British BBs are at least in the modeling phase...

 

As far as Andrea Doria... She herself could always make it in as a premium, but then again she could be used as the ship to represent her class... Italian sources refer to her class as the "Caio Duilio" class, but many outside sources tend to call the class the "Andrea Doria" class, so honestly I don't know which name WG would pick... But it would open up the other to be a premium.