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richie_macrophage

Probably a very stupid question

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I have a very dumb question.

As you all know, I live under a rock.

 

I've heard many things of people saying CV's need to be fixed/reworked.

Since I only started playing this game again intensively in September 2016, I think this CV situation was already going on or something. I've always never asked what was wrong about CVs and if I did, I got no answer.

 

So what is with all this CV problem thing? Are they over performing or under performing?

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I think a lot of people dislike the economy for them currently. That and certain loadouts I heard are a bit of noobtraps. 

 

Curious to see from an actual CV player what the problem is.

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Regardless of in game issues.

What it really all boils down to is something that has been a trend here since the beginning.

No one will be happy until every ship they don't play shoots cotton balls.

 

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There are a number of CV issues. Balance between IJN and US CVs and issues related to good players versus bad players.

 

Right now, CVs can have a huge impact on a game and a good player versus a bad player running CVs in some cases can mean auto-win or auto-lose. There are also issues with manual drop where a good CV player can essentially delete a ship with out a whole lot of trouble.

 

WG has said they are looking in how to deal with many of the issues around CV, but no concrete plans has been put together yet.

 

Essentially the goal would be to balance CVs so they are still fun to play, but don't influence the game quite as much while allowing for players outside of really good players to still be fairly competitive in them.

Edited by KyourakuShunsui
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I just started them and yeah, one minor misclick can mean the difference in the game. You delete the enemy fights or they delete yours and the game swings. 

 

 

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No one will be happy until every ship they don't play shoots cotton balls.

 

^ This might be the most sensible thing I've read on this forum. Not necessarily for this issue, but for WoWS in general.

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Regardless of in game issues.

What it really all boils down to is something that has been a trend here since the beginning.

No one will be happy until every ship they don't play shoots cotton balls.

 

Hit the nail so squarely on the head that both nail and hammer shattered totally beyond any decent hope of even miraculous salvation.

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Ship class where player skill difference is painfully obvious. Low-tiers they're in excellent balance, but mid-tier it tilts toward IJN since they're more versatile with their strike loadout whereas US is more limited toward jack-of-all-planes, fighter-heavy, or bomber-heavy--and at high tiers, IJN just has far more flexibility than their US counterparts that generally a good IJN CV is better for helping the team than a US CV.

 

One of the problems is player attitude. Against a BB/CA/CL/DD you can at least try to retaliate, but against a CV you're stuck dodging, and quite a few players are still butthurt over unicum CVs deleting them. They never woke up to reality of how much CVs got nerfed to the point that some situations now they're not much help. They basically kept repeating the same "CV OP" threads until WG balanced CVs around unicums, when they should have done the balancing around average players.

 

It seems the announced rework is just the UI to make it more user-friendly. Really wished they'd put Kiyo's CV rework in place, right now the US CV line seems largely just in need of a fighter squadron with their T6-7 strike loadout, as well as enabling T8+ US CVs to take 2-3 TB if they wish. Far as I'm aware from experience, the IJN CV line performs well, though an argument can be made for nerfing AA on certain ships like Minotaur simply because they shred planes too fast, and ideally only way to survive a CV sortie is huddling with teammates.

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There are a number of CV issues. Balance between IJN and US CVs and issues related to good players versus bad players.

 

Right now, CVs can have a huge impact on a game and a good player versus a bad player running CVs in some cases can mean auto-win or auto-lose. There are also issues with manual drop where a good CV player can essentially delete a ship with out a whole lot of trouble.

 

WG has said they are looking in how to deal with many of the issues around CV, but no concrete plans has been put together yet.

 

Essentially the goal would be to balance CVs so they are still fun to play, but don't influence the game quite as much while allowing for players outside of really good players to still be fairly competitive in them.

 

Spot on, the skill level of the CV player has far too much impact on the outcome of a match. I'm not talking about the damage totals that they can output but the tactical and strategic planning that high level players bring to a battle. The only real counter to them is another CV and as they are evenly matched numbers wise it becomes a contest between the skill of the respective CV captains.

 

You can tell very early on in a match what your CV player is like and you just have to hope you get a good'un.

 

I don't play them (I don't like the interface or trying to keep my mind on everything you have to do) however from many posts the economy, experience, damage potential and imbalances between nations are all problematic.

 

I don't envy WG trying to figure out how to balance them as only the slightest tweak here or there can either neuter them or make them unstoppable

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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they need major rework so that cv = other ships.  they can easily do that by getting rid of manual drops and make it auto drop only with may be buffed with several options.  (improve chance by predicting  targt movement)   until they are equal to other class, none CV players  will hate them.    

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My main problem is that you get squat for exp and credits on huge wins let alone a normal non ultra unicum performance. The only thing keeping me going is I'm so high in the trees already and I use alot of free exp anyway. Plus the balance between the two lines does feel silly at times.

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So far I haven't seen or read any solution to the problem (game play point of view) of the widely different skill levels of the players themselves. MM can try and 'balance' the tiers, to some greater or lesser extent. The number of players on at any particular time and the tiers they play have a major affect on the MM. I have noticed that there are fewer players on at once as you go up the tiers. For example, the MM may see a boatload of T5s, fewer T6s and very few T7s. The MM may try to balance them out but cannot always succeed in all the games it begins simultaneously.

 

I have, myself, been in bottom tier in the majority of the games I play, which for me are T3-T7. That can be tough on the WR as well as survival and credits and XP, mostly depending on the random team. I believe more players in the game will help this and the Christmas bundle they offer (via email) will go a long way to increasing the player base. Best of all will be the Clan introduction I think. Depending on its implementation of course. However clans will seriously reduce the Random population (perhaps the PVE as well) and directly affect this game mode and MM. Just have to wait and see.


 

I do believe that the individual ships have generally been balanced within a tier with the primary effect that player skill dominates. Having different tiers in battle against each other is hard on the learning curve for a majority of players, not assisted by seal clubbing. In real life everything about ships is not balanced. Accuracy is increased as well as distance controlled because this is a game. The amount of detailed knowledge about ships shown by so many players is astounding. I am a former USN sailor from the '60s and have been astonished at the knowledge about the ships from my own era. I am grateful to actually learn so much about ships to reduce my own ignorance. Thanks to so many for a much desired education in ships and naval history, from so many other countries as well.

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I have a very dumb question.

As you all know, I live under a rock.

 

I've heard many things of people saying CV's need to be fixed/reworked.

Since I only started playing this game again intensively in September 2016, I think this CV situation was already going on or something. I've always never asked what was wrong about CVs and if I did, I got no answer.

 

So what is with all this CV problem thing? Are they over performing or under performing?

Ok so basically the IJN CVs have a balanced loadout that is better than the USN and the USN has to choose between a fighter heavy loadout that isn't fun (and can't earn much) or a strike loadout that gets crushed by IJN fighters and is no fun.

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Two words: Unavoidable Damage

 

Carrier Torpedo planes with the manual drop can drop torpedoes so close to your ship that there is absolutely, positively NO CHANCE to avoid the damage from them. Compounding that problem is that torpedoes ALWAYS detonate, ALWAYS do huge damage no matter how extreme an angle they hit at.

 

It's ridiculous.

 

Imagine if every shell you shot from your guns ALWAYS hit, ALWAYS penetrated and ALWAYS did huge damage.

 

Nobody would ever play the game. At this time, Carriers are the only mechanic in the game that posses that: huge, guaranteed unavoidable damage. That's the problem.

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Two words: Unavoidable Damage

 

Carrier Torpedo planes with the manual drop can drop torpedoes so close to your ship that there is absolutely, positively NO CHANCE to avoid the damage from them. Compounding that problem is that torpedoes ALWAYS detonate, ALWAYS do huge damage no matter how extreme an angle they hit at.

 

It's ridiculous.

 

Imagine if every shell you shot from your guns ALWAYS hit, ALWAYS penetrated and ALWAYS did huge damage.

 

Nobody would ever play the game. At this time, Carriers are the only mechanic in the game that posses that: huge, guaranteed unavoidable damage. That's the problem.

 

But it is avoidable, the planes that carry the torpedoes can be killed, completly. There's no repair consumable to get them back. All it takes is fighters, or people smart enough to stay in groups, or even just one North Carolina. If you get nuked by a carrier because you are sailing alone, it's on you.

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CVS are the hardest class to play.  You have to keep track of more things then any other ship and you get punished harder for mistakes and misjudgments then any other classes in the game.  This makes CVS very hard to pick up due to the higher skill level you need to play them effectively.  Your game is also determined by how good your opponent is and what load out the selected in the port. For these reasons as well as some dispensaries between the USN and ijn lines means most people don't touch them.  Fewer still try to peruse the line making villagers a rare breed

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But it is avoidable, the planes that carry the torpedoes can be killed, completly. There's no repair consumable to get them back. All it takes is fighters, or people smart enough to stay in groups, or even just one North Carolina. If you get nuked by a carrier because you are sailing alone, it's on you.

 

unlike any other class of ship CVS are the easiest to neuter.  Especially low tier ones

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Bad players will ruin your game and really good players will ruin you day. It's just those two extremes.

 

I good player will hit you, and if your a tier lower than then the CV then you can't even hope to be saved by your AA.

 

Just a couple matches ago I was in the gnies, only me and a cruiser left VS a low health BB, half health DD and a CV tier 8 IJN. Had the CV not been in the or not that great we would have won.

 

CV targets me first, got my single fighter up and turning into the planes best I can, first plane wave comes in and drop perfect, AA and fight cause absolutely no panic to even spread the torps out, nailed me, second wave comes in, same thing, dead.

 

CV targets cruiser, same deal, no panic drops, hits him with every torp despite turning into planes.

 

End of the game he had 5 kills.

 

Mean while our CV? No kills all game, doubt he even hit anyone with torps, had the same IJN CV.

Edited by Darth_Caedus_

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Also, since CVs have such a bad economy and overall are stressful to play and all, very few CVs are met in high tier game. This shifted the meta and now since CVs are a lot more rare, a lot less players are running AA builds on their ships. The result of this is that when a CV is indeed in the game, he tends to perform a lot better than he should. So we're kind of in a snake bitting its tail kind of situation here.

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I recently started playing CV's as I have a background in playing RTS games and I feel that I have a pretty good understanding of Micro/Macro play. When it comes to USN vs IJN, unfortunately no matter how you look at it, its ridiculous. IJN CV's say, "USN bombers are god tier and overpowered," "USN fighters are scary to deal with," "USN striker package can almost delete me.." I could go on.. I am currently on my Independence and I just go the Hosho; and for all its misgivings, I think that a very good USN CV player, can win vs any IJN player, UNLESS the IJN cv is running fighters. As a USN player, I hate playing the low tier IJN.

 

My biggest concern for USN vs IJN play, is why should I not be allowed to have 1 fighter when I run striker? why should I have to sacrifice SO MUCH dps, so that I can have two fighters? Two fighter gameplay is not only boring, but it is useless. Im a T6 and 90% of my matches the past two days have been against T7-T9. WHY? I get melted pretty much every game. I can at best manage 1-3 kills a game, but overall feel useless.

 

Look at it this way, if your BB's are sniping, your cruisers are wimps and your dds rush; then your CV play is irrelevant.

 

I think USN CV's either need to have more fighter options, bring back our second torp squad or make it so that each side is equal. Equal being make the IJN play with 1/1/1 2/0/1 or 0/1/2.

 

Ill give you a brief example: 4-5 games that I go against a Ryujo is nothing more than: #: 1 me squirting along the edges of the map #: 2 picking a cruiser to run over or pray to the blood god and snipe him early game. If I get the snipe off I win, if I dont, its going to be a looooooooong micro game. The Ryujo can pressure me off anywhere in the map, because they run 2/2/1; while I am having to run 0/1/2?

 

I get where everyone is coming from, but I spec all my ships into AA. Ive gotten clear skys on my Iowa loads of times, because it has a rating of 100; thats without flags or commander buffs.

 

Problem is, if WG buffs USN CV's, an unholy fire will fall down on the game and everyone will cry. However if they dont, IJN will continue to put up 200-300k games. I didnt play back in the very beginning of 2015 beta, but didnt the Midway used to absolutely wreck everything?

 

Have a good one. Feel Free to add me: Knownasrevengge

Edited by KnownasRevengge

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