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YAALDA Almirante class DD (T8)

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YAADLA Almirante class DDs

 

Chile

 

 

South America, the final refuge of the gunfighter. Though that sounds like the opening line to a book on Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, it is equally applicable in the world of warships. As the rest of the globe moved into a world dominated by guided missiles, certain South American navies were creating new, all-gun warships, the last of their breed. Today’s subject is Chile’s Almirante class DDs.

2h30yom.jpg

 

Almirante Riveros, Early 1960's

 

Designed and built by Vickers in the mid and late 1950’s, The Almirante Riveros and Williams were oxymorons from the start. Fully modern warships, equipped with state of the art radars and guns which then had no equivalent in major navies, they none the less eschewed the up and coming technology of the guided missile, preferring elegant weapons, from a more civilized age. Let’s take a detailed look at these modern anachronisms.

 

207al46.jpg

Riveros, above, and Williams, below, displaying their unique camouflages, throwbacks to eras past.

2cn9wex.jpg

 

 

Hull:

Displacing 3300 tons, they were small ships for their time, but still quite large by WoWs standards, giving us 18,000 hitpoints, a healthy pool for a T8 destroyer.

 

Armor:

From the oldest DD to the newest, this category is useless.

 

Armament:

4x1 102mm Vickers Mk Q. Four four inch guns is totally inadequate at first glance, until you look at the numbers behind them. 900m/s shell speed gives a shell arc that will be familiar to any devotees of the Blys or Russian DDs. That’s not the number that makes the difference, however. That number is 1.333s. That is the reload time on those fully automatic 102mm buzzsaws. The Mk Q could sustain 40rpm, with bursts up to 50rpm. Twice the RoF of a Gearing or Akizuki, it is only kept in check by the limited number of barrels firing.

 

Torpedoes:

Every fighter need’s its own Sunday punch, and the Almirantes came from a single 5 tube torpedo launcher. Lacking definitive information on the torpedoes used, place the RN’s Mk IXM fish in as placeholders. Found on the Neptune and Minotaur classes, their 10km range and 16.5k damage will counter the small overall number of torpedoes without resorting to gimmicks.

 

AA:

The main guns were, of course, dual purpose, and capable of putting out streams of HE shells to deal with jet strike aircraft. Backed up by 6 40mm/70 Bofors (a much more destructive decendent of the famed 40mm/60), CVs would be wise to give her a wide berth.

 

Maneuverability:

At under 10/1 length to breadth, turning circle is better than the average DD, though it costs in straight line speed. 34.5 knots is competitive, but most other DDs will be able to bravely run away from those fire breathing bullet hoses.

 

Consumables:

A normal array of smoke and engine boost, backed up by DF in recognition of the superb fire control its relative youth brings to the table.

 

Pros:

40 rpm main guns…

Excellent AA

Good individual torpedo stats

 

Cons:

Only 4 main guns

102mm guns suffer from no-pen syndrome severely

One launcher of torpedoes, without the Akizukis load booster.

Fairly slow

 

Conclusion:

It’s an Akizuki that Habla Espanol. The seemingly crazy per gun RoF is mitigated by the lack of barrels, and the small shell diameter is a severe disadvantage with current mechanics.  On the plus side, the sheer rate of fire will pin some targets in place, and the torpedoes will delete almost anything with a square hit. Looking at the other high tier options of a South American line, it needs to be a premium due to the guns. Though the ship itself is a good match for the rest of the line, Almirante's guns are smaller and much flatter shooting than anything else available, leading to an odd hiccup in the line if it was brought in as a tech tree ship.

 

Matt

 

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We were needing this review! 

 

thank you very much

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It looks very intreting  an fun to play. I wonder if he could have radar as consumable.

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It looks very intreting  an fun to play. I wonder if he could have radar as consumable.

 

I've toyed with the idea of making that the upper tree's "thing", since they are all quite modern ships. Belfast proves that radar+ smoke is not inherently game breaking. Might have to see how the German DD's with their Hydro work out and go from there, though if radar was available, I'd take away DF.

 

Matt

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Seems pretty fair compared to the Akizuki, same total RPM, similar torpedo load. Slow, but slightly faster. Fewer HP. No torpedo-reload.

 

Within the realms of balance at T8.

 

Not sure if the ADLA's might need to take a little look at DD armor, it does matter a little bit more with inclusion of 4in guns though it is mostly set by tier there are examples.

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Seems pretty fair compared to the Akizuki, same total RPM, similar torpedo load. Slow, but slightly faster. Fewer HP. No torpedo-reload.

 

Within the realms of balance at T8.

 

Not sure if the ADLA's might need to take a little look at DD armor, it does matter a little bit more with inclusion of 4in guns though it is mostly set by tier there are examples.

 

I don't treat DD armor quite as cavalierly as it might seem in my write-ups. IF I could find good information on plating thickness, I would pass it on. However, since in only in WoWs is the difference between 5/8" and 3/4" plating a major deal, it's very hard to find solid information unless you just happen to find a digital version of builders plans. At best, you might find a written reference to issues stemming from light construction, or to being specifically reinforced for polar latitudes.

 

I will make a further effort towards finding hard numbers in the future.

 

Matt

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I don't treat DD armor quite as cavalierly as it might seem in my write-ups. IF I could find good information on plating thickness, I would pass it on. However, since in only in WoWs is the difference between 5/8" and 3/4" plating a major deal, it's very hard to find solid information unless you just happen to find a digital version of builders plans. At best, you might find a written reference to issues stemming from light construction, or to being specifically reinforced for polar latitudes.

 

 

I would save yourself the effort and perhaps just propose numbers based on tier and a vague read on 'sturdiness' perhaps buffing it a little if you want to make a point (i.e. Khab with 50mm). I would expect that 90% of warships in any given navy to have pretty standard half or quarter inch plating.

 

As far as I can tell WG doesn't use historic numbers for hull and superstructure plating. For instance Belfast and Edinburgh are exactly the same ship, but Edinburgh's bow is proof against 203mm and Belfast isn't. There's no way they were built with different plate thicknesses IMO. The numbers seem critically selected to interact with the caliber/14.3 and caliber/6 AP overmatch and HE penetration mechanics. 

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I would save yourself the effort and perhaps just propose numbers based on tier and a vague read on 'sturdiness' perhaps buffing it a little if you want to make a point (i.e. Khab with 50mm). I would expect that 90% of warships in any given navy to have pretty standard half or quarter inch plating.

 

As far as I can tell WG doesn't use historic numbers for hull and superstructure plating. For instance Belfast and Edinburgh are exactly the same ship, but Edinburgh's bow is proof against 203mm and Belfast isn't. There's no way they were built with different plate thicknesses IMO. The numbers seem critically selected to interact with the caliber/14.3 and caliber/6 AP overmatch and HE penetration mechanics. 

 

At T8, the standard level of DD armor is 19mm on the hull, and I believe something like 12mm on the superstructure. I was checking all of them earlier to see what Akizuki's HE can actually pen. It looks like German DDs will be an exception, because assuming their armor as it currently shows in the armor viewer in-game is accurate to the release version, they only have 16mm hull with a 19mm "belt" (and also 19mm deck at T9 and T10) iirc.

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At T8, the standard level of DD armor is 19mm on the hull, and I believe something like 12mm on the superstructure. I was checking all of them earlier to see what Akizuki's HE can actually pen. It looks like German DDs will be an exception, because assuming their armor as it currently shows in the armor viewer in-game is accurate to the release version, they only have 16mm hull with a 19mm "belt" (and also 19mm deck at T9 and T10) iirc.

Interesting, so different vulnerability to 4in HE is the only thing I can find between them.

 

16 and 19mm both bounce AP up to 203mm but are penned by 280mm AP. Both are penned by 114mm and up HE. I can't see much practical difference other than Akizuki and KM BB secondaries.

 

Interestingly the 4.5in (114mm) gun as Neptune's secondary and likely as Brit DD primaries pens exactly 19mm with HE. Coincidence...

 

Gearing gets some sections of 21mm according to the wiki so those would be proof against the (hopefully coming) Brit 4.5in (114) and 4.7in (120mm) guns firing HE.

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Interesting, so different vulnerability to 4in HE is the only thing I can find between them.

 

16 and 19mm both bounce AP up to 203mm but are penned by 280mm AP. Both are penned by 114mm and up HE. I can't see much practical difference other than Akizuki and KM BB secondaries.

 

Interestingly the 4.5in (114mm) gun as Neptune's secondary and likely as Brit DD primaries pens exactly 19mm with HE. Coincidence...

 

Gearing gets some sections of 21mm according to the wiki so those would be proof against the (hopefully coming) Brit 4.5in (114) and 4.7in (120mm) guns firing HE.

 

Just hopped in game for a minute to check: The German DDs are mostly 12mm(!) hull T8-T10 with a 19mm "belt" section. T8 has 16mm deck, T9 and T10 have 19mm deck. Gearing's 21mm armor is in a "belt" portion similar to the German's 19mm plate. Non-German DDs T8+ have 13mm superstructure armor, Germans have the same 12mm as their hull. And of course Khabarovsk has the silly 50mm plates in a few spots.

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I've toyed with the idea of making that the upper tree's "thing", since they are all quite modern ships. Belfast proves that radar+ smoke is not inherently game breaking. Might have to see how the German DD's with their Hydro work out and go from there, though if radar was available, I'd take away DF.

 

Matt

 

Radar + smoke IS inherently game breaking. Smoke plus CL guns is already game breaking. Of the top 8 cruisers by win rate 4 are Brits with smoke plus CL high ROF guns: Belfast, Fiji, Leander, and Neptune. If this ship were in the game it should not be given radar. The game is now flooded with radar-equipped vessels, now including BBs. Really don't need to make things tougher for DDs, the lowest average damage, poorest surviving class of ships. 

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Well 12mm means any CA shooting AP at you opportunistically will overmatch, which is a slight disadvantage. Things like Hindenburg might be nasty.

 

10mm at T5 is critical as 152mm AP will pen that, otherwise 16mm will do, 19mm is good and 25mm would be amazing, leaving you immune to all DD caliber HE.

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Regarding camouflage I saw some ships painted black. They are quite impressive and could be a special Chilean camouflage, but not vey historical.

I' m at work now but I will add some photo.

 

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Radar + smoke IS inherently game breaking. Smoke plus CL guns is already game breaking. Of the top 8 cruisers by win rate 4 are Brits with smoke plus CL high ROF guns: Belfast, Fiji, Leander, and Neptune. If this ship were in the game it should not be given radar. The game is now flooded with radar-equipped vessels, now including BBs. Really don't need to make things tougher for DDs, the lowest average damage, poorest surviving class of ships. 

 

I would point out that 3 of those 4 also have a heal, the Belfast has radar + hydro, and there is a substantial difference in the practical dmg output between a 152 and 102mm gun.

 

Matt

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An example of Chile's black camouflage

 

casma3.jpg

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Fully modern warships, equipped with state of the art radars and guns which then had no equivalent in major navies, they none the less eschewed the up and coming technology of the guided missile, preferring elegant weapons, from a more civilized age. Let’s take a detailed look at these modern anachronisms.

 

I think it's worth pointing out that missiles were still a rather recent development by the time they were built and destroyers equipped with missiles weren't exactly common. Yes, the major powers were moving in the direction of missile armed ships, but for a minor power without their own missile development program I'd assume that getting their hands on missiles might have been difficult when they were designed.

 

The obvious comparison is of course Akizuki so I understand why you'd place it at tier 8 - especially if you want it as a premium. If we disregarding the premium tiering consideration though isn't it in general somewhat superior to Akizuki? Similar gun characteristics but presumably(?) better turret traverse, one more torpedo, somewhat faster and considering it's size potentially more maneuverable and with better concealment.

Soft stats can as always be massaged to balance a ships of course but at face value it would seem a better fit at least a tier higher than Akizuki, no?

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Akizuki may lose a torp, but has the insane 5 sec reload booster. I'd also say her individual torps are better, even if you go with the best RN torpedo we have in game.

 

900m/s is great, but not as great as 1,000m/s.

 

Akizuki trades 1.5 kts slower speed for a couple of thousand HP.

 

Maneuverability and concealment as you say, but also balance-stats from WG.

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From my experience an extra torpedo in a spread is worth a bit in lesser stats. Still the torpedo consumable makes a big difference.

 

The muzzle velocity is different, but considering the relatively small difference in max range given (NavWeaps) for the two guns I'd assume that their trajectories are still reasonably similar.


The soft stats is always a point which makes if hard, if not impossible, to say what tier a ship will be at.

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The soft stats is always a point which makes if hard, if not impossible, to say what tier a ship will be at.

 

Amen says T6 or T8 Fubuki, depending when you ask WG.

 

Those times the edge torpedo clips them rather than just missing do make me think the extra torp is worthwhile.

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Is a nice introduction to the colombian style of DD also.

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