Have torpedoes improved?

[Dreddnort]

I've noticed that torpedoes from ships have improved in that they are more visible from drop to finish, where as before they would be invisible until the last minute, appearing out of no where.

 

However, the Torpedo planes drops have not changed, it's still a standard bomb drop at high altitude by torpedo planes that are pulling 10Gs with their maneuvering and torps appearing like magic yards away, sometimes over land.

[Aduial]

However, the Torpedo planes drops have not changed, it's still a standard bomb drop at high altitude by torpedo planes that are pulling 10Gs with their maneuvering and torps appearing like magic yards away, sometimes over land.

 

 

Lol

It does look funny when a WW2 era plan drops like a stone and then pulls up within a second. 

[4bRbyHSSzZ6pk]

What's funny is that for most IJN DDs after the split, except the Shimakaze and the F3 torpedoes on Yuugumo, the detection of the torpedoes actually went down by about 0,1 to 0,2km. They're actually being seen later and with less reaction time than before this last patch... So this means you're the one who developed more awareness, rather than the torpedoes having been nerfed.

[awildseaking]

What's funny is that for most IJN DDs after the split, except the Shimakaze and the F3 torpedoes on Yuugumo, the detection of the torpedoes actually went down by about 0,1 to 0,2km. They're actually being seen later and with less reaction time than before this last patch... So this means you're the one who developed more awareness, rather than the torpedoes having been nerfed.

 

Speeds also decreased dramatically, resulting in a net reaction time increase. One of the chief complaints about the IJN torpedo nerfs is that USN now have objectively superior torpedoes in every respect. They provide the enemy with the least amount of time to react while also having relatively high damage and longer range. Worst of all, the USN ships have equal detection, faster speed, and superior gun systems.

 

Vigilance and TA mod hurt IJN torpedoes the most because they have the worst detection ranges. Speed is less important in the reaction time calculation because these modifiers affect detection range, not speed.

 

This post is old and out of date now, but it illustrates this concept well.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/65360-torpedo-detection-ranges-and-shell-velocitykrupp-as-of-052/

[4bRbyHSSzZ6pk]

 

Speeds also decreased dramatically, resulting in a net reaction time increase. One of the chief complaints about the IJN torpedo nerfs is that USN now have objectively superior torpedoes in every respect. They provide the enemy with the least amount of time to react while also having relatively high damage and longer range. Worst of all, the USN ships have equal detection, faster speed, and superior gun systems.

 

Vigilance and TA mod hurt IJN torpedoes the most because they have the worst detection ranges. Speed is less important in the reaction time calculation because these modifiers affect detection range, not speed.

 

This post is old and out of date now, but it illustrates this concept well.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/65360-torpedo-detection-ranges-and-shell-velocitykrupp-as-of-052/

 

I see, well I guess if the numbers say so, the numbers say so. It still means that with the net change, the reaction to torpedoes actually remain the same and it's the OP that got better at facing them. As for the USN and IJN part, it's off-topic to this discussion. What the OP asked is simply if reaction times to torpedoes changed, and they haven't.

[CapnCappy]

Torpedo spotting rules still apply. Once they're spotted, they stay spotted.

 

Friendly planes can spot them from further out and keep them spotted.

 

Did you maybe have a game with a lot of catapult planes airborne?

[Capt_Q_Sparrow]

I'm pretty sure they nerfed the IJN torp detect now too . Add in the slower torp speeds and the ships have a mile to maneuver after they are detected 

[awildseaking]

 

I see, well I guess if the numbers say so, the numbers say so. It still means that with the net change, the reaction to torpedoes actually remain the same and it's the OP that got better at facing them. As for the USN and IJN part, it's off-topic to this discussion. What the OP asked is simply if reaction times to torpedoes changed, and they haven't.

 

I thought you said detection ranges decreased. If either detection range or speed change, reaction time changes. Reaction time is calculated as det range/speed*360 (time is compressed). For instance, Minekaze used to have 68kt torps. They have since been reduced to 58. However, I believe they still have 1.4km det range. Old reaction time was 7.41s, new reaction time would be 8.69s. Det range would have to drop to 1.2km to have a negligible effect on reaction time. I haven't seen any new posts about the torpedo data, but based on what I already know, I'm pretty sure that most IJN torpedoes have greater reaction times now than they used to. Do you have any new data proving detection ranges were decreased for IJN?

[4bRbyHSSzZ6pk]

 

I thought you said detection ranges decreased. If either detection range or speed change, reaction time changes. Reaction time is calculated as det range/speed*360. For instance, Minekaze used to have 68kt torps. They have since been reduced to 58. However, I believe they still have 1.4km det range. Old reaction time was 7.41s, new reaction time would be 8.69s. Det range would have to drop to 1.2km to have a negligible effect on reaction time. I haven't seen any new posts about the torpedo data, but based on what I already know, I'm pretty sure that most IJN torpedoes have greater reaction times now than they used to.

 

Just going by what the patch notes said, the torpedo detection went down on some IJN DDs by 0.1km and 0.2km, but that was indeed to compensate for the speed loss they suffered which probably made things stay the same. I'm not going to make complicated math over it though. As far as things go on my gameplay experience alone, I see no difference in torpedoes for the last 1500 games at least. The only time there was a noticeable change in torpedoes was when they changed the detection in Shimakaze's torpedoes from 1.8km to 2.1km in the 15km range ones, from 2.1km to 2.5km in the 20km range ones, both of them now inferior to the F3 and it's 1.9km detection. And that was ages ago... No other torpedo in the game were touched until recently in the split and as far as I've seen they still perform the same in the big picture because the changes were so minor.

 

EDIT: I suppose Minekaze and Isokaze had it bad though, after checking, they only really lost things but the compensation wasn't as good as the T6~T8 changes. Something tells me they actually intended to nerf them rather than just adjust them. If you're playing the Minekaze and Isokaze, then yes, going by numbers alone there's a large difference to be felt indeed.

 

Good players already handled torpedoes well before thanks to having a better awareness. Other players are slowly improving and getting better at it as well. And a good DD player can still get large amounts of torpedo hits if they know what they're doing and how to use their torpedoes at the right times.

[Dreddnort]

Torpedoes and carriers are my pet peeve in this game, so i'm super aware of the shortcomings of the torpedoes. I have noticed since an update in September, if memory serves, that torpedoes were visible without anything in the air to spot such things, assuming that the AI of the planes pick up on such things. Visible to me means being able to see the spread 1/4 of the distance between me and the none-smoked enemy ship after launch, which was significant because before it was all the same no matter the conditions, torpedoes appearing about 5 seconds before impact. 

 

Another thing is that there's no serious consideration to the quality of torpedoes each nation is throwing into the water. Generally, the Japanese were the best and frankly I would not argue with a Japanese torpedo hitting me out of the blue only giving me 5 seconds to react, their torpedo technology was way above other nations, their anti-bubble/wake dynamics was incredible. On the other end of the stick, the U.S. torpedoes were terrible, especially in the first half of the war with their dud rate and circular swimming. In fact an American sub sank itself with it's own torpedoes. I think this would offset the unrealistic accuracy rate this game has with torpedoes, making it a little more dangerous for DD's fighting alone (may force cooperative play with DD's as in real world). Also, it would be nice to have trigger for individual torpedo drops which was more likely, and allows better targeting at middle distance battle). 

[WanderingGhost]

However, the Torpedo planes drops have not changed, it's still a standard bomb drop at high altitude by torpedo planes that are pulling 10Gs with their maneuvering and torps appearing like magic yards away, sometimes over land.

 

Because Wargaming till hasn't removed manual TB drops like they should.

 

 

Speeds also decreased dramatically, resulting in a net reaction time increase. One of the chief complaints about the IJN torpedo nerfs is that USN now have objectively superior torpedoes in every respect. They provide the enemy with the least amount of time to react while also having relatively high damage and longer range. Worst of all, the USN ships have equal detection, faster speed, and superior gun systems.

 

And yet, the IJN torpedoes still have the exact same edge they've always have over USN and Russia particularly at lower/mid tiers. Way longer range, usually almost double, and can use them WITHOUT getting spotted. USN DD's, save maybe if they are full spec'd 15 point captains can't do that at the lower/mid tiers. They still have a faster reload than USN. They still have a higher max damage than USN. You can use torpedo Acceleration captain skill to bring up the tier 6 speed to 64 knots, same as Farragut, with an 8 km launch range, with a 1.2 km range buffer to launch from unspotted. Mahan is the first USN DD that can stealth torp, and it's torp speed is 55 knots. Try and accelerate it? Means to get 60 knots your getting spotted again. And people are complaining that at tier 5 and 6 respectively, they can stealth torp, with 57 knot torps, and 59 knots. Which as before, tier 6 can use the skill to still stealth torp and make 64 knots. Which are almost the same as the Fujin/Kamikaze R clones that did not suffer the nerf being 4 knots slower but having 1 km more range.

 

Objectively? Anyone complaining about the IJN DD's, and that USN DD's are vastly superior, especially on the torpedo side of things, has no idea what they are talking about and/or has no idea how to play the IJN DD's.

 

I'm not even a huge DD player and far from great but when I actually don't screw up I'm still dealing 60-100k with IJN DD torps.

[renegadestatuz]

Torpedoes and carriers are my pet peeve in this game, so i'm super aware of the shortcomings of the torpedoes. I have noticed since an update in September, if memory serves, that torpedoes were visible without anything in the air to spot such things, assuming that the AI of the planes pick up on such things. Visible to me means being able to see the spread 1/4 of the distance between me and the none-smoked enemy ship after launch, which was significant because before it was all the same no matter the conditions, torpedoes appearing about 5 seconds before impact. 

 

Another thing is that there's no serious consideration to the quality of torpedoes each nation is throwing into the water. Generally, the Japanese were the best and frankly I would not argue with a Japanese torpedo hitting me out of the blue only giving me 5 seconds to react, their torpedo technology was way above other nations, their anti-bubble/wake dynamics was incredible. On the other end of the stick, the U.S. torpedoes were terrible, especially in the first half of the war with their dud rate and circular swimming. In fact an American sub sank itself with it's own torpedoes. I think this would offset the unrealistic accuracy rate this game has with torpedoes, making it a little more dangerous for DD's fighting alone (may force cooperative play with DD's as in real world). Also, it would be nice to have trigger for individual torpedo drops which was more likely, and allows better targeting at middle distance battle). 

 

You get single launch torps if you play the RN CLs

[Canadatron]

..I think this would offset the unrealistic accuracy rate this game has with torpedoes, making it a little more dangerous for DD's...

 

So torps having an "unrealistic" accuracy of 6-9% is an issue in you opinion but  Battleship guns being about 27% too accurate is OK? 

 

You must not sail very many destroyers if you believe it needs to be a little more dangerous for the least resilient class in game. Well, either that or you mainly captain BB to be so out of touch with how balance works in this game for all classes and not just your precious.

 

 

[Sink_Stuff]

Aircraft are the most bullcrap thing in this game

 

Every ship and gun in this game is designed around normal turns, speeds, and reloads. But aircraft mechanics are a complete bunch of total garbage. 

 

1. Planes are turning at full speed instantly, not drop in speed at all when turning while supposedly carrying ordnance.

2. Planes don't slow down or drop altitude at all to make a torpedo run. Instead, they instantly drop out of the sky at full speed, total [edited].

3. Every plane dive bomber and torpedo plane in this game would crash into the sea on every single drop this game is so pathetic.

4. In ww2 the minimum distance of a aerial torpedo drop was 1400 meters, that's 1.4 kilometers away. In this game they drop torps at 300 meters or less at full plane speed diving into the ocean like a damn dive bomber. It's the dumbest bunch of total bull crap i have ever seen in a game.

 

These developers are worthless, utterly worthless to make manual torpedo drops as total garbage as they are and yet they want to pretend to try to balance everything. This game is a total sad damn pathetic joke. And they probably pay some loser to try to figure out why most people bail on this game in short order. A year of advertising now and it's been nothing but the same regulars, clans, forum posters, etc.

[Dreddnort]

Aircraft are the most bullcrap thing in this game

 

Every ship and gun in this game is designed around normal turns, speeds, and reloads. But aircraft mechanics are a complete bunch of total garbage. 

 

1. Planes are turning at full speed instantly, not drop in speed at all when turning while supposedly carrying ordnance.

2. Planes don't slow down or drop altitude at all to make a torpedo run. Instead, they instantly drop out of the sky at full speed, total [edited].

3. Every plane dive bomber and torpedo plane in this game would crash into the sea on every single drop this game is so pathetic.

4. In ww2 the minimum distance of a aerial torpedo drop was 1400 meters, that's 1.4 kilometers away. In this game they drop torps at 300 meters or less at full plane speed diving into the ocean like a damn dive bomber. It's the dumbest bunch of total bull crap i have ever seen in a game.

 

These developers are worthless, utterly worthless to make manual torpedo drops as total garbage as they are and yet they want to pretend to try to balance everything. This game is a total sad damn pathetic joke. And they probably pay some loser to try to figure out why most people bail on this game in short order. A year of advertising now and it's been nothing but the same regulars, clans, forum posters, etc.

 

The carrier/plane gameplay portion of this game is entirely inferior. I would applaud the development team if they stopped with everything they are planning to tee up, drop it all and start working on a complete revamp of the carrier / plane setup. BattleStations Pacific's carrier and plane setup should be the model, or basis to work from. It does not need to have the total plane control aspect but take the better real life handling (and true size scaling and seeing individual planes) and the point/direct-the-bot gameplay. But if you do that, ship players have to have control of the AAs, as what we see in BattleStations Pacific. It's all manageable from a player standpoint, with BattleStations Pacific's DDs, you have to toggle between guns, AA and torps - it was awesome, especially in a major engagement. It would be a game changer for the better. Now we have gameplay logic of "Space Invaders" married to "Destiny" in one game. Torpedo bombers pulling shuttle re-entry-like Gs as it drops a perfect torpedo cluster, now that's silly. Oh, to be clear, the ship to ship gunnery stuff in this game is brilliant, that's something to be happy about!!!

 

[Zehroflcopter]

Aircraft are the most bullcrap thing in this game

 

Every ship and gun in this game is designed around normal turns, speeds, and reloads. But aircraft mechanics are a complete bunch of total garbage. 

 

1. Planes are turning at full speed instantly, not drop in speed at all when turning while supposedly carrying ordnance.

2. Planes don't slow down or drop altitude at all to make a torpedo run. Instead, they instantly drop out of the sky at full speed, total [edited].

3. Every plane dive bomber and torpedo plane in this game would crash into the sea on every single drop this game is so pathetic.

4. In ww2 the minimum distance of a aerial torpedo drop was 1400 meters, that's 1.4 kilometers away. In this game they drop torps at 300 meters or less at full plane speed diving into the ocean like a damn dive bomber. It's the dumbest bunch of total bull crap i have ever seen in a game.

 

These developers are worthless, utterly worthless to make manual torpedo drops as total garbage as they are and yet they want to pretend to try to balance everything. This game is a total sad damn pathetic joke. And they probably pay some loser to try to figure out why most people bail on this game in short order. A year of advertising now and it's been nothing but the same regulars, clans, forum posters, etc.

 

I love Russian Developers. They can't make maps that would allow sensible torpedo bomber mechanics so they have to add a bunch of [edited]into the game to make it work.

 

Then they make the Long Lance have 1/2 or 1/4 of its actual effective range. And, oh yeah, it didn't make a wake, but that would be too difficult to balance.

 

[Aduial]

4. In ww2 the minimum distance of a aerial torpedo drop was 1400 meters, that's 1.4 kilometers away. In this game they drop torps at 300 meters or less at full plane speed diving into the ocean like a damn dive bomber. It's the dumbest bunch of total bull crap i have ever seen in a game.

 

Your other points are valid, but the last one is not. The minimal arming distance for all torpedoes is the same, at about 800m or so if i'm not mistaken. Remember that ships are not in proportion to the maps, so it may look way closer than it actually is. 

[KyourakuShunsui]

 

Because Wargaming till hasn't removed manual TB drops like they should.

 

 

And yet, the IJN torpedoes still have the exact same edge they've always have over USN and Russia particularly at lower/mid tiers. Way longer range, usually almost double, and can use them WITHOUT getting spotted. USN DD's, save maybe if they are full spec'd 15 point captains can't do that at the lower/mid tiers. They still have a faster reload than USN. They still have a higher max damage than USN. You can use torpedo Acceleration captain skill to bring up the tier 6 speed to 64 knots, same as Farragut, with an 8 km launch range, with a 1.2 km range buffer to launch from unspotted. Mahan is the first USN DD that can stealth torp, and it's torp speed is 55 knots. Try and accelerate it? Means to get 60 knots your getting spotted again. And people are complaining that at tier 5 and 6 respectively, they can stealth torp, with 57 knot torps, and 59 knots. Which as before, tier 6 can use the skill to still stealth torp and make 64 knots. Which are almost the same as the Fujin/Kamikaze R clones that did not suffer the nerf being 4 knots slower but having 1 km more range.

 

Objectively? Anyone complaining about the IJN DD's, and that USN DD's are vastly superior, especially on the torpedo side of things, has no idea what they are talking about and/or has no idea how to play the IJN DD's.

 

I'm not even a huge DD player and far from great but when I actually don't screw up I'm still dealing 60-100k with IJN DD torps.

 

First, they are no longer 8km torps if you use the acceleration skill on them.

 

Second, at higher tiers (8 and above) things start to change with DD torps and even US DDs (and to a minor extend Russian DDs) can stealth torp. On top of that, at tier 10 the US torps are arguably better than IJN torps due in large part to the difference in detection ranges. That is the problem most people have. At tier 10 the Gearing becomes in many ways a better torpedo boat that a Shimakaze. The only thing the Shima really has is the number of torpedoes in the water.

 

[Aduial]

The only thing the Shima really has is the number of torpedoes in the water.

 

Damage and speed are still factors that make up a torpedo. You can't just ignore them.