Can we please do something about the AI against DDs in Co-op?

[capncrunch21]

Since the last patch, the AI has been tuned to have an absolute death wish against player run DDs.

 

I have been playing in the Tier 5-7 range and I can tell you for a fact that the AI has been tweaked WAY too much in this direction.

 

I have seen the entire enemy team stop engaging ships close by, to fire all the way across the map at a spotted player DD. Enemy aircraft carriers already know exactly where player DDs are and will send their entire compliment against them (no change here from previous patch), but when combined with the EVERY enemy ship shoot at the DD, it is bound to be broadside to something as it tries to dodge torps and bombs - resulting in a quickly dead DD. I had a T7 game in my T5 DD last night (which seems to be the norm with Match Maker now), where there were two player DDs. The other player DD was slightly ahead of me and driving North somewhat up the middle using islands as cover. He was quickly spotted by cruisers fighters and then focused to death. The entire enemy fleet was visible and drove straight south toward him. Meanwhile I was sneaking around the west side, also using islands as cover and was about 15km away from the nearest enemy ship. As soon as the other player DD was smashed into junk, half the enemy team turned due west straight at me - even though I wasn't spotted - and our base was due south of them. So all I could do was drive straight at them and make a single torp run before being blown to pieces. Which then leads me to the next problem....

 

The insane AI dodge ability. I have never seen ships dodge so perfectly in my entire time playing. I launch a full spread of 68kt torps (I have the speed skill) at about 2.5 km from an enemy crusier- he had been sailing in a straight line at a steady speed -until I pulled the trigger. Suddenly he's in a full turn and accelerating away - he was the closest ship and there were no aircraft to spot the torps, yet as soon as they left the tubes - he's dodging them. Isn't detection range somewhere around 1.8km? (or slightly higher for fast torps). It was complete [edited], so of course I missed with every single one of them (that had been fired on a perfect track originally). And here's the kicker, I'm dodging all over the place now to try to throw off the massive amount of incoming gunfire (and not doing so well, because even dodging like mad - slow shells like BB rounds FROM ACROSS THE MAP are still hitting me thanks to the T7 accuracy), when suddenly a PERFECTLY aimed torp spread pops up FROM THE CRUSIER who I shot at and nails me.... Don't tell me the AI doesn't cheat - because it does. Somehow it calculated that if it fired blindly BEFORE I SHOT and it had to maneuver to avoid my trops, at a spot that I randomly showed up in after turning left and right, right and left, jinking all over the place, it COULD hit me. And bam - that's where it places the torpedoes...

 

So please Dev Team, please do SOMETHING about the AI against DDs in Co-op matches (it really needs to be toned down at these tiers) . It's nearly a waste of time to play and absolutely NO fun. You may as well just detonate my DD in port when it loads in at this point. And hey, I'm as much of a team player as the next guy, but I really don't find being THE ONLY target so the rest of my team can earn points scot free while the entire enemy AI team focus' on me (and I earn practically nothing) to be particularly enjoyable.

[Kevik70]

Yeah AI have mad dodge ability, trick around that is to hit x right before you fire. Since x deselects the target the AI now have no way of telling torps are after them, and they typically run right into them unless they see other players and turn to engage.

[CAPTMUDDXX]

they do love to take out dds yes and will chase you all over the map to do so

[RipNuN2]

AI has prioritized DD's for a long time, this isnt a new occurrence, you have to play differently as a DD in coop to be effective.

[TTK_Aegis]

If only players in PvP focus fired spotted DDs like the bots do... instead of utterly ignoring them while I keep them spotted with a fighter squadron. 

[capncrunch21]

AI has prioritized DD's for a long time, this isnt a new occurrence, you have to play differently as a DD in coop to be effective.

 

 

Yes, and it should consider DD as a high threat. But this last patch pushed it over the top.

 

 

As was said above, the entire enemy team actually try to chase down any player DDs, making them their ONLY targets. How is that fun? Why bother to play when you have next to no chance of surviving or making points before being slaughtered?

[TTK_Aegis]

 

 

Yes, and it should consider DD as a high threat. But this last patch pushed it over the top.

 

 

As was said above, the entire enemy team actually try to chase down any player DDs, making them their ONLY targets. How is that fun? Why bother to play when you have next to no chance of surviving or making points before being slaughtered?

 

You could look at it as an intense dodge and smoke usage training exercise. Or just focus on island ambushes. 

[awiggin]

You mean like this?

 

 

WG would actually have to work on the AI if they didn't let the bots cheat....

[AspiringCodger]

I played a CO-OP game in my Atlanta last night and saw some odd behaviour.  I was focus fired constantly regardless of the situation.  A Mutsuki was lit and closer to the approaching Scharn and Tirp, but they ignored it and went for me.  Later in the game, the Tirp was by itself and getting smashed by our Tirp and Scharn at sub 5km ranges and it completely ignored them and went for my Atlanta that was 15km away as soon as I was lit.

[KaptainKaybe]

So basically, the AI is doing what players *should* be doing, which is focus firing destroyers knowing that they are by far the biggest threats in the game?

[awiggin]

So basically, the AI is doing what players *should* be doing, which is focus firing destroyers knowing that they are by far the biggest threats in the game?

 

The point is, the AI knows where the DD is at all times, before it's ever spotted. They then make a beeline for that ship.....

[Misniso]

Play a CV.  Then you'll understand how much the AI wants you dead.

[Deputy276]

Yeah AI have mad dodge ability, trick around that is to hit x right before you fire. Since x deselects the target the AI now have no way of telling torps are after them, and they typically run right into them unless they see other players and turn to engage.

 

Does this really work? Because if it does, the Captain of my Farragut will buy you the beverage of your choice  I just got the Farragut last night, and even pure stock, it is head and tails better than the previous "Ol' Saint Nicholas". I haven't really experienced any major difficulties in knocking out bot DDs. They are actually almost a guaranteed kill with HE in my deck guns. I tend to avoid Cruisers and make end-runs on the sides of the map to find the bot BBs. 

 

[KaptainKaybe]

 

The point is, the AI knows where the DD is at all times, before it's ever spotted. They then make a beeline for that ship.....

 

Probably much more likely that, unlike many players, the AI rushes in to cap, spots the other team's DD without any support, and shells them with impunity.

 

Remember, the AI plays the way the devs think the players *should* be playing. That includes playing the objectives.

[AspiringCodger]

 

Remember, the AI plays the way the devs think the players *should* be playing. 

 

Then they really want us to ram more.

[awiggin]

 

Probably much more likely that, unlike many players, the AI rushes in to cap, spots the other team's DD without any support, and shells them with impunity.

 

Remember, the AI plays the way the devs think the players *should* be playing. That includes playing the objectives.

 

Clearly you've never tested this......

[SirMuttonChops]

It may have changed, but as far as I can remember the AI is programmed to prioritize the easier kill.

 

Battleships are usually the least focused in Co-Op as they tend to be the hardest to kill, with their armour, health regen CD and hit points where as DDs and lighter cruisers will be the first to be focused as they can be killed off with relative ease.

 

 

[brdhntr]

 

Probably much more likely that, unlike many players, the AI rushes in to cap, spots the other team's DD without any support, and shells them with impunity.

 

Remember, the AI plays the way the devs think the players *should* be playing. That includes playing the objectives.

 

The bots seem to follow the closest DD to them.  The funny thing is this can easily be used to the advantage of the DD player, but most Co-op DD players simply yolo into the bots and die in the first minute.  The deselecting the target does stop them from reacting immediately on the launch, but the bots don't get focused and maneuver as soon as the torps are spotted, so you have to put them in a spot they can't react. Dropping your second set short and slightly after the indicator usually works.  

[Mayhem1]

 

The point is, the AI knows where the DD is at all times, before it's ever spotted. They then make a beeline for that ship.....

 

Then set a trap for them and wait for them to come to you or your team..

[capncrunch21]

You mean like this?

 

 

WG would actually have to work on the AI if they didn't let the bots cheat....

 

 

Yep. Exactly.

 

Meanwhile the rest of you team is getting free points to all those enemy ships that are broadside (while you get nothing) - because the AI's ONLY focus is your single DD.

[CFagan1987]

 

 

Yep. Exactly.

 

Meanwhile the rest of you team is getting free points to all those enemy ships that are broadside (while you get nothing) - because the AI's ONLY focus is your single DD.

 

And therein lies the problem. I have literally had the entire enemy team chasing after me in battles (all 8 bots). Can they tone it down a slight bit?

[Taichunger]

it's not just a problem for the DD player, but for all the players. All the bots are in one place, and players on the other side of the map get nothing to shoot at.

 

Another problem is bot suicide. Red bot torps need to harm only humans, and green bots torps should only harm red bots.

[YamatoA150]

Play Random.  Half the time the opposition ignores DDs until they're actually spotted.  Then give up once said DD disappears again. 

 

[ked65]

Totally understand the OP. Spotting is not just wrong for DDs. I have seen BBs spotted and targeted by CVs the same way. Straight line from the CV to the BB even when not spotted. If the ai programming decides you are the next target you are done for. Some of the weird torp stuff I have seen includes TBs dropping on islands and the torps come out the side of the island. Twice I have seen bot torps pass through a destroyed ship that was still floating on the surface. Mine blow up if they hit a ship that hasn't gone under yet. The bots also seem to have this ability to launch a full load of torps the very instant before they are destroyed as if the can tell they are about to die. The worst one I have experienced was when I came across a bot cruise and it charged straight at me. I was able to sink it and then I did a complete 180 to get back to my team mates that were in trouble behind me. Some how this bot predicted my 180 turn and had launched a full load of torps BEHIND my ship at the EXACT spot I was going to be. I DID NOT start to turn until AFTER it blew up! Some times a guy can't help laughing at these things but other times it gets really frustrating. It does seem to be worse at certain times than others but it has seemed worse lately.  I just thought all these things were the result of my crappy internet connection but others seem to be having similar experiences. I would be in favor of bots being a little smarter and harder to beat but not if it means they get to cheat.

[Astralite]

I play my Saipan in PVE from time to time and it amazes my how the bot planes are made of solid stalinium and shoot laser beams or something, one squadron of the bot fighters will shoot down everything I have without a single loss, then shoot down the next 4 squadrons as well without ever having to rearm. 

 

But my absolute favorite is this crap: