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0.5.15 - Japanese Destroyer Feedback

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The old 7km torps on Minekaze were inconsistent with its tier

Part of the major angst over the nerf was the multiple simultaneous hits. Nerf the TT speed, damage, detectabilty AND those super OP guns taking something that was a good ship and making it low average at best. They could have eased in the nerfs over time, waiting to see if each single nerf was enough to drop it from its perch.  Does not bode well for the Akizuki or any other in the IJN line that is still found to be performing better than average.

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The old 7km torps on Minekaze were inconsistent with its tier. Like I said, the ship was overperforming. The old torps did, what, 67kt? At tier 5? And they still had great detection. Going to Mutsuki was a downgrade. If you had actually read my post, I wouldn't have to be clarifying this. 

 

Kagero has always had two quad torpedo launchers. This is absolutely nothing new. Except, she used to be at tier 9, where she was always much maligned. Now, the ship is in a more appropriate tier. An improved Kagero, the Yugumo, now sits at tier 9. 

 

With regards to how many games played in destroyers, it was more a response to the insinuation that I don't know what I'm talking about because I prefer cruisers and battleships. I know how to play destroyers just fine, and if the person stating that I don't know what I'm talking about had looked at something other than how many games I've played in each type, he might have noticed that destroyers are my best class. So...Yeah. 

 

Side note, massive wall of text is obnoxious to read and reply to. Learn how to use paragraphs please.

 

The ship was what it was . You took your lumps leveled up your commander and now it was your turn to have fun instead of being the punching bag . Now it's pathetic . You waste half your torps as decoys and hope for 1  or 2 hits from the rest after the terrible nerf job they did across the board on IJN torps and left the line gutted . 

 

Kagero with it's pathetic speed as well as many of the IJN line are horrid with the torp nerfs that happened .The triple torp launchers were an IJN flavor and what made the line . Every ship that only had double launchers in the upper tiers had trouble . Add to that the speed issues and slow torp reload in comparison to the other lines and the addition of radar up to 11 K in range and it's no wonder this ship suffered and continues to do so . I'll get to the Yugomo but expect the same issues as Kagero due to her terrible speed deficiency .They created a slow stealth line that are made for being hunted once detected.

 

They are clearly wanting more gun play and less torpedo action ( poor whiny BB's ) but did not address the ship,s weaknesses enough to make that happen . Pull the trigger on those guns and you are dead in most cases as you do not have the speed to get away.

 

All they had to do was buff the Minekaze guns / AA and move her up in tiers not gut her . That would have been so much more acceptable . But no she got hammered slower torps that are detected sooner and do less damage . the whole line got hammered with the detection nerf . 

 

The bottom line here is why irritate people that have worked to get the ship they want only to see it , as well as the entire line , gutted ? 

 

Like I said before There is no more Rock / Paper / Scissors when it comes to Battleships being torpedoed . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Part of the major angst over the nerf was the multiple simultaneous hits. Nerf the TT speed, damage, detectabilty AND those super OP guns taking something that was a good ship and making it low average at best. They could have eased in the nerfs over time, waiting to see if each single nerf was enough to drop it from its perch.  Does not bode well for the Akizuki or any other in the IJN line that is still found to be performing better than average.

 

I'm guessing that only BB's should be getting those Confederate / Kraken awards .

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So much crying. The jeezlus ships are fine. Sorry your Minekaze isn't overperforming anymore, get over it.

 

When did it over perform? 

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When did it over perform? 

 

When his BB got hit by a few while rounding an island.

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When his BB got hit by a few while rounding an island.

 

Check my posts. Tell me when I've ever complained about destroyers. You'll find that it's never, because I understand how they work, and I understand that when they strike me from stealth, it's because I screwed up. It's pretty rare that that happens though.

 

 

When did it over perform? 

 

Forever? Look at where Kamikaze R and Fujin are. They're basically identical ships. Same torps as the old Minekaze, except the ship is faster. It was always those two, followed immediately by Minekaze. The ship was overperforming, if you think otherwise, you're delusional.

 

 

I'm guessing that only BB's should be getting those Confederate / Kraken awards .

 

When did I say that? 

 

 

The ship was what it was . You took your lumps leveled up your commander and now it was your turn to have fun instead of being the punching bag . Now it's pathetic . You waste half your torps as decoys and hope for 1  or 2 hits from the rest after the terrible nerf job they did across the board on IJN torps and left the line gutted . 

 

Kagero with it's pathetic speed as well as many of the IJN line are horrid with the torp nerfs that happened .The triple torp launchers were an IJN flavor and what made the line . Every ship that only had double launchers in the upper tiers had trouble . Add to that the speed issues and slow torp reload in comparison to the other lines and the addition of radar up to 11 K in range and it's no wonder this ship suffered and continues to do so . I'll get to the Yugomo but expect the same issues as Kagero due to her terrible speed deficiency .They created a slow stealth line that are made for being hunted once detected.

 

They are clearly wanting more gun play and less torpedo action ( poor whiny BB's ) but did not address the ship,s weaknesses enough to make that happen . Pull the trigger on those guns and you are dead in most cases as you do not have the speed to get away.

 

All they had to do was buff the Minekaze guns / AA and move her up in tiers not gut her . That would have been so much more acceptable . But no she got hammered slower torps that are detected sooner and do less damage . the whole line got hammered with the detection nerf . 

 

The bottom line here is why irritate people that have worked to get the ship they want only to see it , as well as the entire line , gutted ? 

 

Like I said before There is no more Rock / Paper / Scissors when it comes to Battleships being torpedoed . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was what it was? That's ridiculous, lol. If a ship is overperforming, it needs to be nerfed, pure and simple. Minekaze is now in line with the rest of the tier 5 destroyers. If you don't like that, too bad.

Edited by SergeantHop

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I read many of the posts in this thread and did not see anyone say anything about the main thing that I dislike about this new second line of Japanese destroyers.  At the end of the new line (Tier8) you should be able to research the Tier 8 or Tier 9 on the main line, otherwise this is a dead end line of ships to go through.


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I decided to wait for a bit and give the new Japanese destroyer change a try. Well, I've done that and the result was I completely abandoned Japanese destroyers. I had reached tier five and had a Minekaze. I absolutely loved it. I only have so many ship slots so I pick my ship families with care. I wanted to reach tier ten in the Japanese destroyer line.

 

Then the change happened and the destroyers I like are now sidetracked and replaced with a type I am not happy with at all. The Mutsuki not only failed to impress me with its performance, it actually performed so badly that I abandoned Japanese destroyers completely out of frustration. The only way to reach the tier ten destroyer I want is through the Mutsuki, and I just can't do it.

 

In fact, every destroyer line I have tried I ended up leaving after I reached tier five because of frustratingly poor performance, except for the Russian destroyers. I still have the Gnevny and enjoy playing it.

 

I don't like the new Japanese destroyer change. So much so that I jettisoned the entire line from my ship roster. Just my opinion.

You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

If you tough it through to the Benson at T 8 you will find the beginning of where the USN DDs start to shine . I have t 8 / 9 / 10 dds in USN and love them . I understand your frustration with the lower tiers in the USN line . 

LOL.  Low-tier US DDs bad?  REALLY?  Clemson, Nicholas and Farragut say hello?

 

 

The ship was what it was . You took your lumps leveled up your commander and now it was your turn to have fun instead of being the punching bag . Now it's pathetic . You waste half your torps as decoys and hope for 1  or 2 hits from the rest after the terrible nerf job they did across the board on IJN torps and left the line gutted . 

 

Kagero with it's pathetic speed as well as many of the IJN line are horrid with the torp nerfs that happened .The triple torp launchers were an IJN flavor and what made the line . Every ship that only had double launchers in the upper tiers had trouble . Add to that the speed issues and slow torp reload in comparison to the other lines and the addition of radar up to 11 K in range and it's no wonder this ship suffered and continues to do so . I'll get to the Yugomo but expect the same issues as Kagero due to her terrible speed deficiency .They created a slow stealth line that are made for being hunted once detected.

Took your lumps?  In ships like Umikaze and Isokaze which completely dominated the tiers they're at?  Umikaze, a ship that people would take into tier 10 matches to dump torps on hapless Yamatos with impunity?

 

I read many of the posts in this thread and did not see anyone say anything about the main thing that I dislike about this new second line of Japanese destroyers.  At the end of the new line (Tier8) you should be able to research the Tier 8 or Tier 9 on the main line, otherwise this is a dead end line of ships to go through.

 

There will be a tier 9 and 10 implemented for the new line later on said Wargaming, which is why it doesn't connect into the main line.


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There will be a tier 9 and 10 implemented for the new line later on said Wargaming, which is why it doesn't connect into the main line.

 

Then you read more than the news on the launcher when logging in.  That is where I get my news on the game.

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You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

LOL.  Low-tier US DDs bad?  REALLY?  Clemson, Nicholas and Farragut say hello?

 

Took your lumps?  In ships like Umikaze and Isokaze which completely dominated the tiers they're at?  Umikaze, a ship that people would take into tier 10 matches to dump torps on hapless Yamatos with impunity?

 

 

There will be a tier 9 and 10 implemented for the new line later on said Wargaming, which is why it doesn't connect into the main line.

 

Please tell us more tales of tier II Umikaze taking out hapless tier X Yamato's. Now who's delusional?

 

Edited by CapitanoKrunchisimo

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We need the long lance torpedoes back in the game

 

 

WG didn't like the mode where you sat at long range shooting torpedo walls hoping to randomly hit some noob or unlucky ship so they nerfed the best torpedo of WWII into uselessness.The long range spam had a high chance of hitting friendlies so it may have been OK from a gameplay perspective. Players had to get closer to hit targets using stealth. Since then they have done everything they could to punish those trying to use stealth to get to effective range to fire TT.  Invisifiring Russian DDs has apparently been OK as they have been slow to do anything about that. Nerfed the Germans out of the gate to make sure they couldn't do it too.

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The captain issue really irritates me.  I ground the Iso and Minekaze to to high level captains, and now one captain has been assigned to Mutsuki against my wishes, and I now have to reassign/retrain...I should be allowed to adjust points and captains between all of my IJN DDs without having to spend doubloons.

Additionally, the Mutsuki really needs some help.  Even with my 17 point Minekaze captain the ship is just no fun at all.  The torps really need a much faster reload.  I would also want the other hull back that did not have the nearly useless AA - give me back my additional gun.

 

The Minekaze should also be buffed to restore torp speed, but not the damage.  It is very painful to have to face T7 almost all the time.  The best chance a Minekaze has vs T7 is fast torps, cause guns will not get it done.

 

Hydro at these tiers negates much of the stealth of many ships, and the faster BBs are much more difficult to hit.

 

Quite frankly, I am now hesitant to spend any more real money on any sort of upgrade with the knowledge that 8 months worth of grinding a specific ship might just be gutted with a nerf like this.


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Glad I don't have to grind out the IJN line. Got all the ships I want except the Shim. tier 10 which I do not want. Yes I have the all of the new line. There is a new learning curve. But yes the line needs a buff.


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Please tell us more tales of tier II Umikaze taking out hapless tier X Yamato's. Now who's delusional?

 

 

I was guilty of that taking my son with me in a division . You should have heard my teammates scream at me and the enemy teams laugh at our fail division .  Until He started torp dumping on those big BB's and start flooding them out .  LOL

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You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

LOL.  Low-tier US DDs bad?  REALLY?  Clemson, Nicholas and Farragut say hello?

 

Took your lumps?  In ships like Umikaze and Isokaze which completely dominated the tiers they're at?  Umikaze, a ship that people would take into tier 10 matches to dump torps on hapless Yamatos with impunity?

 

 

There will be a tier 9 and 10 implemented for the new line later on said Wargaming, which is why it doesn't connect into the main line.

 

What you have to realize here is Seraphil seems to hate any GOOD DD's with torps  that kill his BBs . Who says this has to just be a shoot the guns game ? For those of us that enjoyed the IJN line as it was , this was a horrific nerf  that was unfair and unwarranted. 

I point to the OP Bismarck / Khabarovsk / Moskva /  DM Donskoi .

Try getting to within 10 K of a Bismarck's secondaries . Moskva with 11.7 radar detect , DM with 11.0 radar detect , Khabarovsk with it's HUGE speed advantage and OP guns . There's ships that over perform . Anti Dd nerfs are out of control right now . Then they nerf hit the torps on the entire IJN line ?

Every time there's a good ship that people run to it seems it gets nerfed to pieces eventually . Cleveland is a great example of that . It wan't enough that they screwed it's guns over then they fired up the Citadel nerf on it and all of a sudden it's an AP disaster . Now it's a Port Queen that only gets used to kill Aircraft . Is it a bad ship ?  No not at all . BB's are just too OP now to play cruisers unless you wish to grind out to the upper tiers and get that radar to screw over the DD's .

 

The bottom line here on the IJN  Dd line is they are now the WORST available DDs in the game  per tier across the board after the great nerf . This is mainly due to the torp nerf  and their general lack of speed . With all the radar and super Hydro  that's out there now the IJN line with it's slow speed are inferior ships 

 

Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow

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You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No Seraphil, I did not know the Mutsuki was at tier six above the Minkaze in the old tech tree. That would be for several reasons. I play this game to relax when I get a few minutes in my busy day. (That is why it has taken me so long to simply respond to you) I do not have the time to memorize every single tech tree for all of the ships. Also, I had just come back to the game after a several month long break from playing and found they had changed the Japenese destroyers. So no, I did not remember that the Mutsuki was the next ship in line on the old line up. I have better things to do than spend what little play time I have perusing every single tech tree and memorizing them. I would rather play. Thank you for pointing out these facts. I appreciate your input, but it doesn't change my opinion. 

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Check my posts. Tell me when I've ever complained about destroyers. You'll find that it's never, because I understand how they work, and I understand that when they strike me from stealth, it's because I screwed up. It's pretty rare that that happens though.

 

 

Forever? Look at where Kamikaze R and Fujin are. They're basically identical ships. Same torps as the old Minekaze, except the ship is faster. It was always those two, followed immediately by Minekaze. The ship was overperforming, if you think otherwise, you're delusional.

 

 

When did I say that? 

 

 

It was what it was? That's ridiculous, lol. If a ship is overperforming, it needs to be nerfed, pure and simple. Minekaze is now in line with the rest of the tier 5 destroyers. If you don't like that, too bad.

No what's ridiculous is when they nerf the torps on the entire line .

What's ridiculous is kidnapping your commanders and sticking them into the new ships .

What's ridiculous is expecting a DD with sub par guns / lousy turret traverse / slow speed / and slow torpedo reload speed  to operate at all and wonder why they suffer .

Isokaze wasn't all that great . It had inferior speed and limited torp range . It could be hunted by faster cruisers .

Minekaze with it's limited torp range was a great ship . Whine about the torp speed ? Stop driving straight . Regardless of it's torp speed it could NOT Torp a Battleship or cruiser that was going away from it . They would out run the range . What you really had was a bunch of BB drivers that were bad and refused to change their tactics . 

So let's make things all better and not only cut the ships torp speed but also increase it's torp detectibility range so that even a T4 BB can easily detect and dodge any Torps thrown at it .

I jettisoned the Isokaze immediately . It's junk now 

The Minekaze has been mothballed and will stay that way until they either restore it to what it was or they nerf the Kamikaze R and Fujin .

Those of us that played IJN DDs did not put our time and effort into developing those ships captains to have this happen .


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No what's ridiculous is when they nerf the torps on the entire line .

What's ridiculous is kidnapping your commanders and sticking them into the new ships .

What's ridiculous is expecting a DD with sub par guns / lousy turret traverse / slow speed / and slow torpedo reload speed  to operate at all and wonder why they suffer .

Isokaze wasn't all that great . It had inferior speed and limited torp range . It could be hunted by faster cruisers .

Minekaze with it's limited torp range was a great ship . Whine about the torp speed ? Stop driving straight . Regardless of it's torp speed it could NOT Torp a Battleship or cruiser that was going away from it . They would out run the range . What you really had was a bunch of BB drivers that were bad and refused to change their tactics . 

So let's make things all better and not only cut the ships torp speed but also increase it's torp detectibility range so that even a T4 BB can easily detect and dodge any Torps thrown at it .

I jettisoned the Isokaze immediately . It's junk now 

The Minekaze has been mothballed and will stay that way until they either restore it to what it was or they nerf the Kamikaze R and Fujin .

Those of us that played IJN DDs did not put our time and effort into developing those ships captains to have this happen .

 

 

You're right, we should just let overperforming ships overperform. Who cares that it doesn't line up with the tiering and was better than the tier 6 and 7 ships in every appreciable way. Go ahead, retire the Minekaze. Maybe that was the point, eh? 


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Until He started torp dumping on those big BB's and start flooding them out .

 

Pre-radar days?

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Been about a month now.  Current opinions on IJN?  

 

My personal one is besides Shira and Aki, they're all CRAP. 


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You're right, we should just let overperforming ships overperform. Who cares that it doesn't line up with the tiering and was better than the tier 6 and 7 ships in every appreciable way. Go ahead, retire the Minekaze. Maybe that was the point, eh? 

 

Khab is still OVER PERFORMING isn't it  ?  OH YEAH it's not doing it with Torpedoes so that's OK RIGHT ? If they hadn't changed the ship style with the Mutsuki and the Hatsuharu they wouldn't have been such BAD performers in the first place . As soon as they went to double launchers vs triple the line suffered . Couple that with Slower top end speed , slow torpedo reload times  , and it was a troubled line at best . Hitting the Minekaze / Isokaze with a 3 way torp nerf was over kill . Speed / damage / detect were all hit and now a Wyoming in T4 can easily dodge incoming Minekaze torps . Like I said earlier and you will not listen to is even with what they had for torp speed Enemy ships HAD to be coming at you or running straight and true parallel to you for the torps to hit . Now the same is true with slower , less damaging , and higher detected torps . Can we now say UNDER PERFORMERS ?  OP is in the eyes of the BBs that continued to drive straight into those torps . 

Get your head off the Minekaze and the Isokaze for just a moment and look what they did to the ENTIRE line . 

All they did here was cave to the BB drivers who were whining about the grind and how hard it was in their poor Battleships .

In the last year they have buffed Battleships Gun accuracy / turning ability / and armor . They lessened the amt of damage that could be received by DD guns . radar came out buffed radar came out  super hydro came out . What was done to better the DD's ?  NOTHING  just nerf after nerf after nerf both direct and indirect .I had a game pre nerf with Minekaze where I had the perfect ambush against a Nagato  . All 6 torps hit across the broadside . Did I sink it ?  NO it's buffed armor saved it and then it healed back tons of health .

Take a look at Kagero for example :

Ship speed is pathetically slow it is the 3rd slowest DD from T6  to T 10 . The 2 slower ones are IJN . It sees T 10 matches against ships with Radar that out ranges it's torpedoes . If you have CE it's a very stealthy ship BUT slow ship speed against cruisers that have 11 K or higher Radar ? It is a useless and soon dead ship that will eventually get detected  . Add to that a terrible torpedo reload time and you spend your entire match staying out of range of detection or go in and die in a heartbeat from cruisers that have faster gun reload times than you do .

Yugomo at T 9 is not much better .

Why don't they just change the name of this to World of Battleships and be done with it ?

Rock / Paper / Scissors

Battleships are supposed to kill Cruisers 

Cruisers are supposed to kill Destroyers

Destroyers are supposed to kill Battleships

Cruisers are NOT supposed to kill Battleships unless they want to die trying

Destroyers are NOT supposed to kill Cruisers  unless they want to die trying

Battleships are NOT supposed to kill destroyers  unless they want to die trying

The IJN line is now being hunted by Battleships. Is that what this game was supposed to be based on ?

Doesn't sound too much like Rock / Paper / Scissors to me .

 

Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow

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