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Grand_Commander_LuXun

Hulls for T3-7 German BBs

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Does it really matter when everything else in the game is complete fantasy?

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I'm not quite sure, but as far as i know, the lower tier ones have fictional upgrades, and Gneisenau has one too. 

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Not sure about Nassau, but I suspect she's mostly historial.

 

Kaiser's hulls are fictional, with a WG invented AA and superstructure, based on 'what if these ships survived WWI / Scapa Flow'. Koenig Albert is a historical Kaiser.

 

Not sure about Koenig, but I suspect she is the same as Bayern.

 

Bayern's upgraded hull is fictional, AA and superstructure. AFAIK the stock hull is more-or-less historical.

 

Gneisenau has fictional AA and planned-but-never-actually-fitted 15" armament.

 

For what it's worth, I think WG did a decent job with the fictional upgrades, except for Bayern. That superstructure is IMO just ugly.

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I know it's out of T3-7 scope but Bismarck also has fictional DP 105mm & other AA fitout.

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Not sure about Nassau, but I suspect she's mostly historial.

 

Kaiser's hulls are fictional, with a WG invented AA and superstructure, based on 'what if these ships survived WWI / Scapa Flow'. Koenig Albert is a historical Kaiser.

 

Not sure about Koenig, but I suspect she is the same as Bayern.

 

Bayern's upgraded hull is fictional, AA and superstructure. AFAIK the stock hull is more-or-less historical.

 

Gneisenau has fictional AA and planned-but-never-actually-fitted 15" armament.

 

For what it's worth, I think WG did a decent job with the fictional upgrades, except for Bayern. That superstructure is IMO just ugly.

 

Agreed.  I think the stock Bayern hull with the double funnels is much more visually appealing.

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Not sure about Nassau, but I suspect she's mostly historial.

 

Kaiser's hulls are fictional, with a WG invented AA and superstructure, based on 'what if these ships survived WWI / Scapa Flow'. Koenig Albert is a historical Kaiser.

 

Not sure about Koenig, but I suspect she is the same as Bayern.

 

Bayern's upgraded hull is fictional, AA and superstructure. AFAIK the stock hull is more-or-less historical.

 

Gneisenau has fictional AA and planned-but-never-actually-fitted 15" armament.

 

For what it's worth, I think WG did a decent job with the fictional upgrades, except for Bayern. That superstructure is IMO just ugly.

Konig is also fictional stock.  The real stock Konig would look like Konig Albert, but with Konig class weapon layout.

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I know it's out of T3-7 scope but Bismarck also has fictional DP 105mm & other AA fitout.

 

Fictional upgrade for both gameplay balance and a "what if Bismarck survived long enough to take AA seriously?"

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Nassau and Koenig Albert are historical

Kaiser is 100% fantasy for both hulls and looks ruined

Koenig is also 100% fictional but looks half way credible

Bayern stock is historical - B-hull is 100% fantasy

Gneisenau is half fictional as this conversion was planned but never carried out. Scharnhorst is historical

 

All in all WG managed to create an almost all-fantasy fleet somehow

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Just wondering if the German battleships from Tiers 3 to 7 have historically accurate hulls in their stock and upgraded configurations.

 

Tiers 3-6: Scapaflow, Zionas... Can U google it?

 

Tier 7: Gneisenau was to be reffited with 380 mm guns; not sure about the 128 mm guns.

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Nassau and Koenig Albert are historical

Kaiser is 100% fantasy for both hulls and looks ruined

Koenig is also 100% fictional but looks half way credible

Bayern stock is historical - B-hull is 100% fantasy

Gneisenau is half fictional as this conversion was planned but never carried out. Scharnhorst is historical

 

All in all WG managed to create an almost all-fantasy fleet somehow

 

And WG isn't going to just let the KM BBs be curbstomped by being restricted to a bunch of obsolete WWI hulls until one actually reached T7, and as evidenced by the removal of Kongou's WWI stock hull, no one really wants to suffer a stock hull WWI BB in a meta where they see T5-T7 with regularity.

 

Especially not when the line as a whole was THE most requested line by all servers (second to RN BBs; and one of the reasons WG temporarily halted their VMF CV and VMF BB lines that were supposed to be released first).

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And WG isn't going to just let the KM BBs be curbstomped by being restricted to a bunch of obsolete WWI hulls until one actually reached T7, and as evidenced by the removal of Kongou's WWI stock hull, no one really wants to suffer a stock hull WWI BB in a meta where they see T5-T7 with regularity.

 

Especially not when the line as a whole was THE most requested line by all servers (second to RN BBs; and one of the reasons WG temporarily halted their VMF CV and VMF BB lines that were supposed to be released first).

 

I read this everywhere but it is not quiete true:

 

1) Why need all BBs have super strong AA? Removing the last bit of team play? 

 

2) Put Koenig Albert with historical reload and a little extra range at T4. Not a problem. Same works for T5+6

 

3) if WG feels that ALL BBs need to be "jack-of-all-traits" they could've given Kaiser a half way credible upgrade by looking at the pretty similar Yavuz/Goeben. She received 32 auto cannons for AS (2 & 4cm) and served well beyond WW2 as a flagship. 

 

No matter how you look at it - these modernizations are not justified by any pressing needs, imo way overdone and spoil the look and feel of the ships  ingame for me. However I respect that you may have a different opinion and like these nevertheless.

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I read this everywhere but it is not quiete true:

 

1) Why need all BBs have super strong AA? Removing the last bit of team play? 

 

2) Put Koenig Albert with historical reload and a little extra range at T4. Not a problem. Same works for T5+6

 

3) if WG feels that ALL BBs need to be "jack-of-all-traits" they could've given Kaiser a half way credible upgrade by looking at the pretty similar Yavuz/Goeben. She received 32 auto cannons for AS (2 & 4cm) and served well beyond WW2 as a flagship. 

 

No matter how you look at it - these modernizations are not justified by any pressing needs, imo way overdone and spoil the look and feel of the ships  ingame for me. However I respect that you may have a different opinion and like these nevertheless.

 

Well, bow refits were a thing for German ships,(Hipper got it and wasn't even old) so those make sense.

 

They need stronger AA, because of the assumed timeframe their tier puts them in.

 

Kaiser would need AA deemed sufficient to defend itself from high-performance biplane and early monoplane bombers, (Konig would be geared towards mid-performance early war monoplanes) because, in an alternate universe where Germany retained their navy after WW1, a first-line BB would have AA commensurate with the times.

 

Also in this alternate universe, Germany is a first-rate maritime power, not a second-rate pretender like Turkey, who only had a dreadnought because they captured one. They slapped automatic cannon on it for AA because that was what they could afford, what they could maintain, and probably sufficient to face off against obsolete Greek and Russian air forces in that particular theater.

 

 

Edited by Skpstr

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 Fictional upgrade for both gameplay balance and a "what if Bismarck survived long enough to take AA seriously?"

 The OP didn't ask for any justifications.

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Well, bow refits were a thing for German ships,(Hipper got it and wasn't even old) so those make sense.

 

They need stronger AA, because of the assumed timeframe their tier puts them in.

 

Kaiser would need AA deemed sufficient to defend itself from high-performance biplane and early monoplane bombers, (Konig would be geared towards mid-performance early war monoplanes) because, in an alternate universe where Germany retained their navy after WW1, a first-line BB would have AA commensurate with the times.

 

Also in this alternate universe, Germany is a first-rate maritime power, not a second-rate pretender like Turkey, who only had a dreadnought because they captured one. They slapped automatic cannon on it for AA because that was what they could afford, what they could maintain, and probably sufficient to face off against obsolete Greek and Russian air forces in that particular theater.

 

 

 

Fair point about the different theatre & navy.

 

However I would still argue that in this parallel universe Germany would have modernized the Bayerns and the Koenigs. The Kaisers wouldn't have gotten any substantial modernization due to the outdated layout. They would have been used as second line / coastal defense if kept (and then maybe upgraded in a budget version like Yavuz) or scrapped if tonnage would have been an issue (eg. under whatever naval treaty). So still I can't agree with what WG have done to her.

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Fair point about the different theatre & navy.

 

However I would still argue that in this parallel universe Germany would have modernized the Bayerns and the Koenigs. The Kaisers wouldn't have gotten any substantial modernization due to the outdated layout. They would have been used as second line / coastal defense if kept (and then maybe upgraded in a budget version like Yavuz) or scrapped if tonnage would have been an issue (eg. under whatever naval treaty). So still I can't agree with what WG have done to her.

 

I'll admit I didn't pay a lot of attention to Kaiser, (went through it quick) so I don't know what hull changes were made, but I can't see a first-rate power cheaping out much on stuff that doesn't require a full refit, like AA or FCS.

 

Plus, every ship will be in battles where it is state of the art, and has to be within certain rough parameters of the next ship up. IOW, some upgrades make sense, others have to be done for balance and to keep a more or less consistent power increase as you go up the tiers.

 

Although, TBH, they could have simply increased stats and made upgrades mechanical only, without the cosmetic part.

Edited by Skpstr

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I'll admit I didn't pay a lot of attention to Kaiser, (went through it quick) so I don't know what hull changes were made, but I can't see a first-rate power cheaping out much on stuff that doesn't require a full refit, like AA or FCS.

 

Plus, every ship will be in battles where it is state of the art, and has to be within certain rough parameters of the next ship up. IOW, some upgrades make sense, others have to be done for balance and to keep a more or less consistent power increase as you go up the tiers.

 

Although, TBH, they could have simply increased stats and made upgrades mechanical only, without the cosmetic part.

 

I guess many ppl don't mind these changes on Kaiser too much as she is only T4. For me the Kaisers are among the most beautiful ships so it still bothers me.

 

Game balance is all fair and dandy but for a T4 ship a lot less radical upgrade would have been still sufficient for sure. I mean all these AA buffs (which are the main driver for these fantasy refits according to Sub_Octavian)... are these really needed? I would say no - not every single battleship needs to have strong  AA. Why not rely on team play instead? This would easily remove the need for these fantasy hulls. 

 

For those like me (and I guess the OP) who like these old rust buckets :-)

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