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legoboy0401

Darn you Matchmaker, darn you!(Cruisers v.s. BBs two tiers higher: Why bother?)

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I. Hate. The. Current. Matchmaking.with.a.vengeance.

 

Currently, what can you do? I mean, why play Cruisers? Seriously, WG, if you are going to make us face BBs two tiers higher in ships that love being citadeled, at least give us the proper tools to do so.

 

Aoba, for instance, is one of those that up-tiers so badly indeed. She, Myoko and Mogami especially, are an all-you-can-eat buffet for BBs.

 

Short range, low armor,  almost never relevant torpedoes due to skill at higher tiers.

 

These aren't the only ones, but having to always be in EVERYBODY's engagement range, and their EFFECTIVE range too, to engage at all is beyond frustrating. I would kill to have a cloaking device in Aoba, or some fancy-dancy new consumables to even the odds so heavily tilted in the BB's favor. But no, we don't get anything at all.

 

We are rarely more than easy prey for BBs TWO tiers higher than us. Back when EVERYONE had to deal with this, I was fine with it, but now Tier III and IV don't have to, and Tier I gets +0 matchmaking

 

Aoba's fragile beyond belief(takes critical hits as much as DDs do) low on armor, and has too few torpedoes to be worthwhile in an ever-more observant and skillful arena.

 

At least Myoko doesn't share that.

 

Why play Aoba? Really. Furutaka's very similar, only sees tier seven, has better torpedoes that reload quicker, has only a bit less health, has ok AA, has speedy turrets, seems to be a little more agile, seems to accelerate better, and has virtually the same firepower except for a longer reload that all IJN CAs but Aoba share in common anyway, up to tier IX.

 

What advantage does Aoba seriously have? What makes her so special and so much better that she should see Amagi s and Bismarcks instead of Nagatos and Gneisenaus?

 

Why do Cruisers still get +2 MM?

 

Wargaming, I'm begging you here. What business do Tier VI cruisers have in largely Tier VII and VIII battles? None. None at all, except to be easy prey rewards for those who own and play Tier VIII BBs.

Edited by legoboy0401
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World of DDs and BBs seriously makes me want to stop playing Cruisers indefinitely. What role do Cruisers at mid-to-high tiers play anymore that can't be outdone by a DD or BB?

 

 

+2 Matchmaking effects Cruisers the most.

Edited by legoboy0401

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Aoba vs. Pensacola...   I'd rather be in an Aoba.

Aoba vs. Cleveland...   I'd rather be in a Cleveland.

Cleveland vs. Pensacola.............  hahahahahahahahaha...

You should be focused on Destroyers and smaller cruisers, like the Atlanta

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Aoba vs. Pensacola...   I'd rather be in an Aoba.

Aoba vs. Cleveland...   I'd rather be in a Cleveland.

Cleveland vs. Pensacola.............  hahahahahahahahaha...

You should be focused on Destroyers and smaller cruisers, like the Atlanta

 

Precisely. I know that. However, I'm not getting those very often. Usually I run into 5 BB, 5-6 CL/CA, and 1-2 CV battles. On top of that, there's another problem. Aoba's torpedoes are outdated. They are almost useless 99.9 % of the time. They are some times helpful the other 0.1% of the time, but even then they are usually dodged.

 

Edit: even these targets can easily take me out with a good player behind the wheel. Curse those evil unicums! i want to smite them with brimstone. They are everywhere and ruin my battles.

Edited by legoboy0401

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And yet playing a Pensacola, New Orleans, Yorck, or Hipper under the old system was far, far more punishing. No one stopped playing them.

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Aoba vs. Pensacola...   I'd rather be in an Aoba.

 

You're pretty brave, Id take the Pensacola every time. Better range and guns

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Theres no dout that the number of BBs and MM is slanted towards BBs at the moment if it wasnt for me getting a free Takao, I would not be playing those tiers as I just don't like them for just that reason but this is a team game and especially if your low tier buddy up with 2 other Cruisers or BBs stick together and focus fire

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And yet playing a Pensacola, New Orleans, Yorck, or Hipper under the old system was far, far more punishing. No one stopped playing them.

 

They weren't effected too badly, the problem is, though, there are far too many unicums around right now, and they make Tier VIII games turn into the equivalent of Tier X ones. The camp-or-be-destroyed factor is through the roof, and I'm not happy. At all.:angry:

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Wait a minute, why are my stats at a 56% winrate and a higher than normal WTR? That can't be right.

 

Never mind, I don't have people to div with right now and I only have Aoba and AZ at Tier VI, Even Arizona's not feeling her usual self right now. Her performance is very poor right now, and she's usually a beast for me. She doesn't even feel tanky. Something seems really off, and I think the Matchmaker has something to do with it.

 

I wish all unicums would be banned. They are everywhere and make a bottom-tier ship all but useless in ships far stronger. For example, AZ has very strong armor, right? Well I've been taking citadel hits by the dozen recently, and do you want to know why? Cursed 406 mm guns. Against mere 25 millimeter bow-armor. And angling, though I try, rarely helps either.

 

380 mm guns at my own tier can lol-pen me too, but they have massive weaknesses to balance the Lol-pen out. Amagi s and North Carolinas and Bismarcks don't. Against Tier VIs, they get an an advantage in every category but detection, and a smaller detection radius rarely wins a match.

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WG doesn't seem to care about the BB/CA/DD ratio, or the uptiering issue. Sadly.

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They weren't effected too badly, the problem is, though, there are far too many unicums around right now, and they make Tier VIII games turn into the equivalent of Tier X ones. The camp-or-be-destroyed factor is through the roof, and I'm not happy. At all.:angry:

 

Constant tier 9 and 10 MM was brutal for tiers 7 and 8. It's a bit better now.

 

As for Arizona, use cover. I just recently stomped a Bismarck, Amagi, and two Atagos in Arizona just by limiting the number of ships which could hit me at any given moment. You have to re-evaluate your tactics and find new ways to play, just as players progressing from tier 6 to 7 and 8 had to under the old MM.

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I relate to Winston Churchill right now, and not in a good way. " In all the war I never received a more direct shock. As I twisted and turned in bed the full horror of the news sank in upon me. There were no British or American capital ships in the Indian Ocean or the Pacific.... Over all this vast expanse of waters Japan was supreme, and we everywhere were weak and naked."

 

Replace the word Japan with BBs, and British and American capital ships with Cruisers, and you've perfectly described my experience in Cruisers.

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If you think it is bad now at tier 6 facing tier 8s. Wate tell you are tear 8 facing tier 10s.

 

I say this next part not trying to be rude or insulting I am trying to help.

I see from your stats that you are below average so I don't think that you are qualified to complain about the balance of the game.

Now having said that here would be my suggestion to improve your gameplay skills. because that is what this game is. It's a skill, and you develop skills through practice and critically evaluating your own performance. 

 

For every game ask yourself. What did I do right and what did I do wrong? Especially in games where you sucked, you need to ask yourself. How did I screw up, what did I do wrong, and how could I play better.

 

I would also recommend that you watch Ichase or Notser with the volume off and try to predict what Ichase or Notser are going to do before they do it.

And remember you don't learn new skills from Novices you learn from Masters of their craft. Watch players that are uncum and learn from them.

 

Well that was my thoughts and opinions I hope you find this useful.

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Just wanna mention this, since no-one else has. Fires burn the same, no matter what tier of ship set them. Hug an island and let the HE fly and even the mightiest Bismark can fall to your Aoba. 'Course, its easier said than done, but it isn't impossible.

 

 

 

But I do agree MM is a little screwy right now. Tier 5 and 6 have it too rough IMO.

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My divmate was angry when we got up-tiered. I think things turned out pretty well given the situation.

 

dZ5HXwQ.png

 

 

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Cruisers are fine, well T10 cruisers are at least... T7 and below are just food and T8~9 depends on the player. I say the mid-tier struggle has a role of teaching players how to cruiser in high-tiers, how careful and thoughtful they must be in every decision

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I say the mid-tier struggle has a role of teaching players how to cruiser in high-tiers, how careful and thoughtful they must be in every decision

 

I don't know about you, but I prefer in the interest of fairness and mutual enjoyment of the game that nobody should feel like the game is stacked against them and they should learn some arcane art of survival when others can just casually remove them at will. When people sense being at such a disadvantage, they tend to either quit or drop money on WG to bypass the frustration. It's the only reason why WG makes these design decisions that appear to be nonsensical but actually just pressure you into paying up. Let's not defend this objectionable practice by inventing "roles" for mid tiers. Sure, they prepare you for future instances of similarly frustrating gameplay, but none of it is OK. If WG didn't blatantly farm their players for cash, the MM would be +/-1 across the board for a while now given the current healthy and stable population.

 

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I'm with Dennis. They have a large rift in performance to set up a situation that is favourable to their cash flow. If they make you bottom out hard enough you just might open that wallet up to give yourself a nudge out of there. If everything is sunshine and lollipops you're going to be a lot less driven to do so.

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I say this next part not trying to be rude or insulting I am trying to help.

I see from your stats that you are below average so I don't think that you are qualified to complain about the balance of the game.

Now having said that here would be my suggestion to improve your gameplay skills. because that is what this game is. It's a skill, and you develop skills through practice and critically evaluating your own performance. 

 

For every game ask yourself. What did I do right and what did I do wrong? Especially in games where you sucked, you need to ask yourself. How did I screw up, what did I do wrong, and how could I play better.

 

That is very unfair.  You really need to evaluate the difference since you ground out those lines, and the learning cliff new players face with today's Meta.  If you're playing those ships today with 15-18 point Captains, fully upgraded tech tree, premium modules and flagged out the wazoo, then you are not feeling the same pain new players do.

 

There will be plenty of games where you can reflect and admit a glaring mistake that cost you your ship.  Then there will be moments where you were erased by ships you never got to see, by guns that overmatch your armor regardless of angling, by CV's who's planes laughed at your -2 tier AA, etc... your options in that kind of match are:

 

1) Hide and hope you can clean up scraps later in the match, or

2) Hope you can generate enough XP per match before dying to grind through the tier faster.

 

The +2/-2 MM is not beginner friendly.  It's a dead horse that hasn't been kicked enough.

Edited by Kerrec
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You're pretty brave, Id take the Pensacola every time. Better range and guns

 

But much worse detection and no torpedoes. But that being said, the Pensacola is a tier 7 and sees 9s while the Aoba only sees 8s. 

 

As a Cruiser player, I don't find BBs to be that troublesome. I have played all the way to the Zao, Minotaur and Hindenburg and I'm currently playing the Baltimore and DM Donskoi. BBs generally dont worry me too much other than the occasional lucky citadel which is a pain for sure, but not the end of the world.

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That is very unfair.  You really need to evaluate the difference since you ground out those lines, and the learning cliff new players face with today's Meta.  If you're playing those ships today with 15-18 point Captains, fully upgraded tech tree, premium modules and flagged out the wazoo, then you are not feeling the same pain new players do.

 

There will be plenty of games where you can reflect and admit a glaring mistake that cost you your ship.  Then there will be moments where you were erased by ships you never got to see, by guns that overmatch your armor regardless of angling, by CV's who's planes laughed at your -2 tier AA, etc... your options in that kind of match are:

 

1) Hide and hope you can clean up scraps later in the match, or

2) Hope you can generate enough XP per match before dying to grind through the tier faster.

 

The +2/-2 MM is not beginner friendly.  It's a dead horse that hasn't been kicked enough.

 

So then maybe a new player should stay in the safe zone of tier 3-4 for a while learning the ropes? I personally ground out multiple lines all at once so I could move up more slowly, learning the pros and cons of the different ship types. I see too many players racing up a single line to try and get to high tiers without a solid understanding of the game or the meta at higher tiers.

 

The MM is fine as is. It used to be much worse and limiting it to 1 tier difference is only going to hurt the community as a whole since battle wait times would increase fairly dramatically.

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Cursed 406 mm guns. Against mere 25 millimeter bow-armor. 

 

 

Isn't 25mm of bow armor a pretty standard feature of BBs after Tier 6?

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 If WG didn't blatantly farm their players for cash, the MM would be +/-1 across the board for a while now given the current healthy and stable population.

 

 

If they went +/-1 across the board, the forums would riot against all the best ships getting hit with the nerf bat, basically taking hits to whatever allows them to have success when uptiered.

 

That's exactly what happened in WoT, and they only went from +/-3 to +/-2. Except here, they don't nerf premiums.

 

 

Edited by Skpstr

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So then maybe a new player should stay in the safe zone of tier 3-4 for a while learning the ropes? I personally ground out multiple lines all at once so I could move up more slowly, learning the pros and cons of the different ship types. I see too many players racing up a single line to try and get to high tiers without a solid understanding of the game or the meta at higher tiers.

 

The MM is fine as is. It used to be much worse and limiting it to 1 tier difference is only going to hurt the community as a whole since battle wait times would increase fairly dramatically.

 

There's only so much you can learn from tiers 4 and below.  I'm sorry, but you can play 2000 games before trying tier 5 and you'll STILL hit the learning cliff of a T5 cruiser facing a T7 BB or T7 CV or T7 DD or even another cruiser.  No low level matches are going to prepare you for that.  So there's no point in not climbing the tiers other than avoiding [edited]who spew crap about staying out of higher tiers if you don't like being bottom tier.

 

I hear people complaining about long wait times, or matches with small teams, but I've never seen it.  If I wait more than 20 seconds on average for a match, it's a slow night.  The MM can be made more dynamic, allowing for more restrictive matchmaking when the population is high, then revert back when the population is low.  "...battle wait times would increase fairly dramatically" is conjecture.  You don't actually know, you're just saying that to shore up your argument. 

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