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Question for Notser/Flamu/iChase

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I love watching these guys videos, they are very informative. I have one question though.

 

Howcome nobody ever seems to shoot at these guys? They seem to float around with impunity through whatever cap they want?

I try the tactics they use, but I either sail into 40000000 skill-less torpedoes or get sprung by a Benson or Fletcher, that leads to me getting the absolute guts focus-fired out of me and my games last 4 minutes.

 

Surely there is a secret? "Don't get detected" yeah well that's easier said than done isn't it? I could stay undetected and invisitorp randoms from 15km in the hope of getting damage but that would be horrible and boring and there are too many people doing that already. Or, I could stay well back and not be aggressive and get 0 damage and get reported for playing poorly.

What do I do?

 

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Playing certain ships (traditional CAs, most BBs, some gunboat DDs) is like rubbing a cat's belly: you start really carefully and then gradually test how much you can get away with before the cat bites your fingers off.

 

It's a balancing act of making an impact on the match without making yourself the primary target for multiple enemies, whether by utilizing concealment, cover, angling or other friendlies in the meatshield capacity. The art of staying afloat is subtle and somewhat dependent on what specific ship you're using, so pick one that you're having trouble with and practice-practice-practice, then just to be different practice some more.

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The key is to not be enticing.

 

For shells

Angled and showing very little to shoot at?

more than 15km away?

inside of smoke?

completely invisible?

 

For torps/bombers

Sailing in a direction that causes them to kite you?

Using WASD effectively?

Do they have friendlies that can cover them from YOLO torp runs?

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Their games are mostly cherry picked, which probably includes them doing well and not being shot at much.

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Check out their streams, its not always as easy as it appears. Usually only the better games end up uploaded on youtube, and for every one of those there are 10 that didn't end up so well.

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First, they are highly skilled people which has good situational awareness, movement tactic, aiming etc. Copying what they do does not mean you will get the same result. As the battle is diverse and constantly changing. It is important to build up your own skill and tactics. Learn from them, but not copy from them.

 

In addition, you probably do not want to share the video if you played badly in the game and it is not a good demonstration right?

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It's a juggling act.  I tend to look at it like this:  "Where does the enemy not want me to be?"  I then go there and raise Hell.

 

There are a few tricks too.

  1.  Run away.  No, seriously.  Turn your butt around and flee when things look bad.  Don't hope they'll get better, cause they won't.  An interesting thing happens when you run away... you make the enemy weapons less effective.  Ever try and torpedo someone running away from you?  It's a pain in the butt, especially if they have a really good head start.  Shooting at someone that's fleeing, especially at ranges greater than 12km for small caliber guns and 15km+ for large caliber is a nuisance.  So you'll survive longer and maybe buy yourself enough time to vanish, heal or give your team time enough to win.
     
  2.  The best way to not get shot is to kill the enemy before he can hurt you.  Watch how iChase and Notser play.  They tend to isolate enemies.  They look for exposed targets and delete them with extreme prejudice.  They don't farm damage.  They kill stuff.  Their high damage totals come from being around long enough to put more shots out.  So always, and I mean always look for easy kills and secure them.
     
  3.  Don't fight fair.  Seriously.  Fighting fair is for losers.  Literally.  Generally speaking, if I'm choosing to engage you, you've lost already.  You just don't know it yet.  Because I'm holding all of the cards.  I'm confident I can kick your butt.  I'll pick on the underdog.  I'll kick puppies.  I'll club baby seals.  If I smell weakness, you're my "in" to progressing the fight.  I'll bring half my team with me to kill one ship.  And then I'll do it again.  And again.  I will abuse mechanics.  I will use every cheap, dirty, underhanded maneuver in my repetoire to see your ship sunk and my hit points preserved.  Because after I sink you, there's another eleven members of your team that need dying and I need to be in tip top shape so that those fights won't be fair either.

    When you're watching those videos, try and determine the exact moment the enemy they chose to engage has lost the duel.  You'll be shocked when you really start looking that often, they're dead long before they even set their sights on them.  These will be the players that have isolated themselves.  These will be the players that have over extended.  These will be the players that are sailing predictably.  Like a lion on the serengeti, players like Notser and iChase have almost an instinctive knack for identifying the weak targets from the herd.

 

And that's the basics of it, really.  Does this always work?  No, but it doesn't have to.  It works most of the time, which is why they do so well.

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I watch these guys also and they seem to have teams that show map skills like taking an end zone then pushing forward so as to not have people shooting at you from two sides. They focus fire and use movement and concealment very well. When I see them lose a game it usually involves fleeing team members who decide to play the long range engagement from open water. Of these great players I find Notser the most enjoyable for the lack of salt and his good conversation skills. 

 

Edited by Punisher_One

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In terms of watching videos, editing plays a big part in what you see. its highly likely that you only see 1 or 2 battle out of the 50 they did to make that video.

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That's good advice Mouse, and I understand where you are coming from. But lately I get on teams where almost everybody dies in the first 10 minutes and I'll be in an Anshan or Nicholas, and we will be trying to kill 4 BB's with me and 2 CA's. Pretty much lost every game like this for the last two weeks. I can't get in a position to invisitorp, and firing with such low fire% is useless. So I should not fire at all?

 

And if I try and run away - a Bismarck secondary does 7k DAMAGE to me, and I get citadel'ed through my rudder. I am sure this game is prejudiced against Mac users.

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I watch these guys also and they seem to have teams that show map skills like taking an end zone then pushing forward so as to not have people shooting at you from two sides. They focus fire and use movement and concealment very well. When I see them lose a game it usually involves fleeing team members who decide to play the long range engagement from open water. Of these great players I find Notser the most enjoyable for the lack of salt and his good conversation skills. 

 

 

I would have to agree... the takeaway from him is twofold for me...

1. Believe in your skill but know what your skill are first. 

2. Stay calm.

 

I used to think he (Notser) was really good at staying calm... then he started streaming. Watch his streams and you can see the difference between his YT videos and "real life". Can't cherry-pick streams :-) He will teach you a lot related to movement, targeting and actually, prioritizing targets. 

 

 

 

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I play with Chase a lot. One of his biggest complaints is how much he gets focused.

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Mouse is right. Never fight fair.

Of course they only show you selected videos. Not every game is that good or has instructional value.

 

That said, they are good players. Notice they do not overextend. They stop their big BBs and stop being aggressive when they would cross the line into the open to be multi-targeted. Learn when to be aggressive, and when not to.

 

Lastly, they know how to shoot, Strategy and tactics is important. Good gunnery skills is too.

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Howcome nobody ever seems to shoot at these guys? They seem to float around with impunity through whatever cap they want?

I try the tactics they use, but I either sail into 40000000 skill-less torpedoes or get sprung by a Benson or Fletcher, that leads to me getting the absolute guts focus-fired out of me and my games last 4 minutes.

 

Surely there is a secret? "Don't get detected" yeah well that's easier said than done isn't it? I could stay undetected and invisitorp randoms from 15km in the hope of getting damage but that would be horrible and boring and there are too many people doing that already. Or, I could stay well back and not be aggressive and get 0 damage and get reported for playing poorly.

What do I do?

 

 

There is a built-in hack in this game that the majority of the player base does not use.  It boggles my mind, because I have found it to be OP as all heck.  It isn't even hidden...well, I suppose it is hidden in plain sight.

 

It's called a mini-map.

 

The minimap is your intelligence network that is continuously feeding you live, up to the second information on critical information needed for a win.  It tells you the map layout.  It tells you where all of your allies are, and their planes.  It tells you where every enemy that is being spotted by your allies is, and his heading.  YOU MUST USE THIS INFORMATION if you want to be a good player.  You need to learn how to use that information, and much of that, unfortunately, is trial and error.  Apparently there are A LOT of players who just can't figure out how to use that information to their advantage.

 

With the mini-map info you can plan your strategy.  If a destroyer pops up a few grid squares away and is heading in your direction, you probably don't want to sail your battleship through that channel between two islands that you originally planned to do.  You see a ship pop up that is on an intercept course with you, but you haven't been detected and there is a whole gaggle of reds on the other end of the map.  Chances are, the guy you are about to encounter doesn't have much support, if any.  As Mouse said, the map will also tell you when it is time to abort a plan of attack, turn and run back to your support.  Do not get yourself into situations where you are dangerously outnumbered, or are defending yourself from incoming fire from two different directions.  Leave yourself an escape route if the fight starts to turn bad.

 

When you watch the YouTube videos, you are seeing what they do.  But, you can't simply "use the tactics they do" without also understanding why they did what they did.  Why did they end up at that part of the map?  It probably had a lot to do with the mini-map.

 

Know the role of your ship.  Know its strengths and weaknesses.  Play as many different ships as you can so you know their strengths and weaknesses.  Then, do what you can to fight with your strengths while taking advantage of your opponents weaknesses.  It sounds so simple, but it takes a lot of playing time to understand these things to the point where you can begin applying it effectively.

Edited by desmo_2
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That's good advice Mouse, and I understand where you are coming from. But lately I get on teams where almost everybody dies in the first 10 minutes and I'll be in an Anshan or Nicholas, and we will be trying to kill 4 BB's with me and 2 CA's. Pretty much lost every game like this for the last two weeks. I can't get in a position to invisitorp, and firing with such low fire% is useless. So I should not fire at all?

 

And if I try and run away - a Bismarck secondary does 7k DAMAGE to me, and I get citadel'ed through my rudder. I am sure this game is prejudiced against Mac users.

 

I totally get how that can be frustrating.  My words of advice probably won't be very comforting:  Don't let it get to you.  It's all a numbers game.  Concentrate on your game play, especially when you get bad teams.

 

See, the magic formula for those awesome games you'll see posted on Youtube hinge on two factors.

  1. The enemy team has to make some pretty big mistakes for you to capitalize on so that you get all of the damage and kills from them.
  2. But your own team needs to make even worse mistakes so that you're one of the few people left to get all of the damage and kills.

 

It's that second part everyone forgets.  When you have a good team against a bad team, you're seldom (if ever) going to have a spectacular result.  Everyone's going to score a modest amount of damage, kills and experience.  It's only when you have a team full of chowderheads (or their equivalent skill/unfortunate luck level) that you have the opportunity to be a superstar and get big games.  Here's an example of one of my own in the new Shiratsuyu.  This was narrated by Aetam.

 

 

Now, how many games did it take to get this result?  I've played 20 games total in the Shiratsuyu.  This was the most dramatic and Youtube worthy.  Did I have other good games?  You bet.  I have at least a half dozen that were 1700 to 1900 base experience matches but they weren't memorable.  Killing 1 or 2 ships, doing in and around  75,000 to 100,000 damage?  Meh.  Not really entertaining.  And that's what makes good copy on Youtube -- it has to be entertaining.

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There is a built-in hack in this game that the majority of the player base does not use.  It boggles my mind, because I have found it to be OP as all heck.  

It's called a mini-map.

 

WAIT THERE IS A MINIMAP IN GAME?!?!?!? Why haven't I seen this yet? Teach me senpai

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There are a number of reasons these players make it look easy in their videos.

 

First, they ARE good. Period. If they weren't, why would you watch the video?

 

Second, they ALWAYS play in divisions, and have two other guys covering their rumps.


 

Third, these videos are TOTALLY cherry-picked and you are seeing the best of the best. (you will notice sometimes matches get "cut off", or you only see a section of a game, reason is good editing"


 

Now, if you could game with two bodyguards and only show us whatever you wanted (plus had a WoW gifted super-premium account with all the upgrades and dubloons you could want) you might look like a superstar also.

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 Don't fight fair.  Seriously.  Fighting fair is for losers.  Literally.  Generally speaking, if I'm choosing to engage you, you've lost already.  You just don't know it yet.  Because I'm holding all of the cards.  I'm confident I can kick your butt.  I'll pick on the underdog.  I'll kick puppies.  I'll club baby seals.  If I smell weakness, you're my "in" to progressing the fight.  I'll bring half my team with me to kill one ship.  And then I'll do it again.  And again.  I will abuse mechanics.  I will use every cheap, dirty, underhanded maneuver in my repetoire to see your ship sunk and my hit points preserved.  Because after I sink you, there's another eleven members of your team that need dying and I need to be in tip top shape so that those fights won't be fair either.

 

This.  When I was in the army, the old grizzled NCOs always used to say if we ever found ourselves in a fair fight, we planned the mission wrong.
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In terms of watching videos, editing plays a big part in what you see. its highly likely that you only see 1 or 2 battle out of the 50 they did to make that video.

 

Check out their streams, its not always as easy as it appears. Usually only the better games end up uploaded on youtube, and for every one of those there are 10 that didn't end up so well.

 

Their games are mostly cherry picked, which probably includes them doing well and not being shot at much.

 

Pretty much this. For every 100k+ damage Khab game I have, there are 10 where I do "meh" or die after doing 10k in damage.

 

Divisioning also plays a HUGE part. There used to be players with 90% winrates in randoms due to divisioning.

 

The difference between an average and a great player is often only a 10-15% difference in solo winrate.

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They don't always have those great games.  I've seen it from experience, just about every time I've been in a game with one of them, they don't do well, many times they've ended up at the bottom.

Mouse did have some good ideas, and know when to push, and when to run.

Be confident.

Also, not putting anyone down, but some people are just better/worse at some games.  Seen it in every game I've ever played.  Some people just have that knack while others, doesn't matter what they do they, well, suck.

I'm reminded of my gaming days with Battlefield Vietnam.  You could tell the good players and the bad.  Even had a friend who was really good try helping a guy who was just bad.  The result, he got worse, no kidding.  Everything the good player did, when the bad player tried it ended in failure.  It was almost comical to watch, and several of us were laughing while wondering how.

My biggest piece of advice is have fun, enjoy the game.

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I watch most of these guys on Twitch live or their recording of the broadcast later. I see them lose often but it's not because of their own skill or playing strategy. They do get teams like us common folk that a nuclear blast couldn't help but they can sometimes carry those. I watch You Tube videos for reviews of ships or particular tactics and I also use Shipcomrade for help. I'm not a high games player but I attribute most of my success to these guys and websites.  

Edited by Punisher_One

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