Leander OP?

[Lert]

Having played my Leander for 8 battles and doing considerably better in it than I thought I would be as someone who generally doesn't do that well in soft cruisers, I went to check the global performance of the ship across all four regions.

 

On NA it outperforms every other T6 CA/CL in WR%, and is second in DPG only behind Molotov.

On EU it's third in WR% after Molotov and Perth, and second in DPG after Molotov.

On RU it's second in both WR% and DPG after Molotov.

On SEA it's second in both WR% and DPG after Molotov.

 

So Leander outperforms every other T6 tech tree CA/CL as well as its premium Commonwealth sister (except in WR% on EU) ... Is Leander overpowered? Is it in line for a nerf? Do you think it deserves one?

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

Keep in mind the buddy stats took months to drop down and likely it will take longer for the RNCLs because the first few tiers bottleneck worse players. I wouldn't  be comfortable shortening an opinion for another month or two.

[TenguBlade]

I personally don't think so.  She's the first UK CL to properly reward you for not being stupid and dying to the first shot that comes your way - the people who make her work are either not bad at dodging or extremely lucky.  Given that my first 3 games ended in instant erasure by detonation, I doubt many of the latter exist.

 

While I can consistently pull about 50k damage in her, I have to work for every hit, and I've had exactly one game that breaks that mold in a good way out of 19 (four in a negative way).

[Wowzery]

I mostly play T6-7 so I encounter this ship a bit.  From what I've seen of it in battle, its easy to blow up.  For some reason its captains love the hide by an island trick, then whine when they are detonated by a salvo by a BB.

[Cruiser_Chicago]

My 40% WR and 55k average damage over 35 games say that the Leander is perfectly balanced. I'm probably the only person on NA who has had a terrible experience in this ship despite the general consensus that it's good.

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

Having played my Leander for 8 battles

 

C'mon mate, that's too small a sample size lol

[gurudennis]

It's the early adopter skew. The disparity is even more pronounced in the RN CL line since pretty much the only adopters past tier 5 are good or great players. I mean the T4-5 is so utterly crap in this line that all but the most tenacious / skilled of players simply give up on the line and try something else.

 

Give a Leander to an average player and they will not break 50% WR or 25k average damage. The ship is somewhat underpowered for the tier.

[Lert]

C'mon mate, that's too small a sample size lol

 

Not denying. But tens- to hundreds of thousands of battles across all regions aren't, mate.

[Destroyer8172]

Aren't you jumping the gun too early?

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

 

Not denying. But tens- to hundreds of thousands of battles across all regions aren't, mate.

Sample size means nothing if a sample bias exists which happens here because poor players are avoiding the line or progressing slower. So what you are seeing is biased towards higher performance. 

[Landing_Skipper]

My take is that the preceding ships in the RN cruiser line are lame enough to weed out most, if not all, potatoes. The Leander player population is not representative of the general WoWs population in terms of drive to succeed, skill and experience. Even more so as you go further up the RN tech tree. You have to work hard to develop a new play style which maximizes the strengths of these ships. The few times I've encountered a Minotaur, I could tell the player was very good and would do well in any Tier X ship. 

 

Another factor may be that the RN cruiser line has gotten such a bad rap that other players underestimate the ships. An Atago/Tako shouldn't show broadside to ANY other ship inside 8km, but I've opened up more than one with Fiji. I assume they just didn't take me seriously. 

[Lert]

Aren't you jumping the gun too early?

 

Opening a discussion.

 

Sample size means nothing if a sample bias exists which happens here because poor players are avoiding the line or progressing slower. So what you are seeing is biased towards higher performance. 

 

That undeniably skews data, but one wonders by how much.

[Teske]

I think it is still too early to tell, most people that have one already still tend to be better players. I think the stats will fall in line once more people play it.

[mr3awsome]

Remember all those people that said Leander couldn't possibly work at tier VI and should be tier V?

 

[Lert]

Remember all those people that said Leander couldn't possibly work at tier VI and should be tier V?

 

Granted, most of those comments were made before we knew about RNCL 'super' AP. One could argue that any line that 'needs' such a gimmick to perform is in the wrong tier.

[Phoenix_jz]

Remember all those people that said Leander couldn't possibly work at tier VI and should be tier V?

 

 

I'd still support that stance if she had the regular HE and AP, and didn't bring along smoke.

 

The Super AP and the smoke are what enable her to fight at tier VI

[Sinboto]

 

Granted, most of those comments were made before we knew about RNCL 'super' AP. One could argue that any line that 'needs' such a gimmick to perform is in the wrong tier.

 

I agree to this, if a ship needs a gimmick to be good it's not balanced right.

 

 

[Striker_002]

Having played my Leander for 8 battles and doing considerably better in it than I thought I would be as someone who generally doesn't do that well in soft cruisers, I went to check the global performance of the ship across all four regions.

 

On NA it outperforms every other T6 CA/CL in WR%, and is second in DPG only behind Molotov.

On EU it's third in WR% after Molotov and Perth, and second in DPG after Molotov.

On RU it's second in both WR% and DPG after Molotov.

On SEA it's second in both WR% and DPG after Molotov.

 

So Leander outperforms every other T6 tech tree CA/CL as well as its premium Commonwealth sister (except in WR% on EU) ... Is Leander overpowered? Is it in line for a nerf? Do you think it deserves one?

 

Leander was the first decent, but not amazing, ship on the UK line IMO.  I'd be interested in seeing how it compares with player skill controlled for(how does it compare to other ships that the player has?) because if we look at everyone...Well my guess is there is a huge amount of player attrition going up the UK line and most poor/average players wouldn't be patient enough to reach it.

 

For example, looking at my own stats I see my Budy and...aoba of all things(small sample size, woo!) both outperformed my leander in solo play.

 

Halfway through the neptune now, and if there is one ship that's closes to being OP I would wager it would be the fiji at tier 7.  The line is very hard to evaluate though  because even in a skilled player's hands it's a knife's edge between succeeding or failing hard.

[Kuckoo]

Idk if it's overpowered.

 

One thing I do know, however, is that even though I primarily play American and Russian destroyers, I'm positively sick of the incessant smoke-firing meta that's taken over the game.  Yet there's a smoke buff in store if the proposed new captain skills go through.

 

I'm only saying this becasue I never park in smoke (lost count on how many parked smoke-shooters I've ambushed), but it seems all you ever see in matches any more are a bunch of smoke clouds shooting at each other.

 

Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread.  Just that a nerve was touched.

[K1ra_Yoshikage]

Think most players gave up with the Emerald so only the die hards make it that far.

My Leander stats are a bit strange. While I gota WR is 58% but my damage only 24k. So I got carried through her. Or not, I tried most of the time to kill some DD. I'm often tired from working in a 24/7 job so cruisers take too much attention for the short gaming times I have at some days. I tried the Minotaur at PT and yes if you care about positioning and may sail with some ships of higher value you can get extrem good results out of the British cruisers. Just not if you want to relax. The RN super AP is even worse with t6+. You do constant damage to BB without the need to aim right. And eat through the armor of CL.

[K1ra_Yoshikage]

Idk if it's overpowered.

 

One thing I do know, however, is that even though I primarily play American and Russian destroyers, I'm positively sick of the incessant smoke-firing meta that's taken over the game.  Yet there's a smoke buff in store if the proposed new captain skills go through.

 

I'm only saying this becasue I never park in smoke (lost count on how many parked smoke-shooters I've ambushed), but it seems all you ever see in matches any more are a bunch of smoke clouds shooting at each other.

 

Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread.  Just that a nerve was touched.

 

For the RN I use smoke rather as a decoy. Like you I killed to many sitting inside of it with torpedos from my DD.

[Kapitan_Wuff]

The Leander was the first RN CL that I enjoyed, the Emerald was the first that I was capable of performing in. The tricks learned in the Emerald really came to life with the Leander, it is a capable ship, high risk/high reward. A good player can get a lot out of it, while the not so good players will/have probably given up long before reaching T6. I don't think its OP or needs any balance adjustment. But thats just IMO, I went up to the Fiji as soon as I could.

[atPrick__]

My 40% WR and 55k average damage over 35 games say that the Leander is perfectly balanced. I'm probably the only person on NA who has had a terrible experience in this ship despite the general consensus that it's good.

 

sounds like my experience with Mogami....

 

I voted its underpowered and deserves a massive Nerf because.... I have never played it and.... well... Its the Forums

[IKU19]

It's OP... until someone sneezes at it and dies instantly due to surgical citadel removal.

Same with Fiji, and Emerald.

 

 

There's also the case of RN Cruisers in general not being able to do consistent damage to battleships, which even a German cruiser flinging AP can do.

 

Aside that they're really powerful ships imo, but once shot at you're not going to live long unless you're quick on the WASD and can dodgetank (but eventually RNG says f- you and you get citadelled anyway.) Same with German and Soviet cruisers, very powerful in their own area, but very fragile.

 

It's like German Battleships, when they released everyone cried that they are OP (which I still believe Bismarck is because you don't need 11km secondaries at tier 8 but I digress,) until people realized to deal considerable amounts of damage to them just fling HE or shoot them in the bow so you get regular penetration damage. Same with RN cruisers, they can still bounce shells off their belt but if you can aim properly, and know how to shoot something that's sitting still in a smoke puff, they're easy to kill. 

 

I think the reason why RN cruisers have such good stats is because a lot of people quit them at Emerald as that's when the game really punishes you for mistakes and if you can't plan your engagement ten steps in advance of the enemy the RN cruiser line isn't going to work out... so most quit.

In it's own way, to a lesser extent it's like claiming Flint is OP, until you remember that the majority of people that have her know what they're doing.

 

I'm waiting for another meta to take hold before I'm going to judge RN stats.

 

[mofton]

Remember all those people that said Leander couldn't possibly work at tier VI and should be tier V?

 

Welp, didn't see first cruiser line with a smokescreen, first cruiser line with heal at T6, first line to lack HE but gain better AP or the maneuverability of a hydrofoil coming to be fair. Guessing tiering seems even trickier now WG have decided that for instance the Fubuki is a T6, not a T8 after all.

 

You can make anything any tier when you panic and throw on all the consumables it seems.

 

 

If the RN CL are 'not meant for beginners' and to have a high skill ceiling then it makes sense that Leander etc. would do pretty well, otherwise what's the point? I do think there's a weeding out effect. The low tiers feel horrendous to play so I think some kind of reward is reasonable.

 

Last 2 weeks the Emerald had 33,345 games and the Omaha 20,960. The Leander had 28,377 and the Cleveland 65,446 - so while there are more people playing Cleveland than Omaha, there are more playing Emerald than Leander. To me, that suggests that possibly a whole raft of less experienced people are still on Emerald and below. Skewed stats.