A matter of honor.

[Quaffer]

 

Free speech is the right to express your opinion in a public venue.  Feel free to create your own web site and say whatever you want. Write letters to the editor. Mouth off to your parents (Let us know how that’s working for you).  But that’s in public.  The owners of establishments have the right to set the rules for what goes on in their premises. No shirt, no shoes, no service, sound familiar?  Theaters can ask you to leave if you are disturbing the other patrons. Etc. etc. etc.

 

When you enter an establishment, you obey the posted signs and use common sense.  If you are informed that your behavior is inappropriate you toe the line or leave.  They have the right to ask for their patrons to observe their rules and their patrons have the right to take their custom elsewhere.

 

It’s no different on a server or in a forum.  The owner makes rules and if they are not followed they can moderate the miscreant’s behavior.  The rules are posted at the top of most of the forums for everyone to read and I’m sure you had to state that you would follow them when you registered.

 

It’s a contract between WarGaming and the player.  I believe the phrase goes “Honor the contract”.  I’m a baby boomer.  My father was of “the greatest generation”.  I learned about honor from him and his peers.  I have tried to pass the concept along but I fear I may have failed in that.

 

Each player can decide if they will honor their contract and follow the rules. It’s entirely up to them.  Just don’t expect any sympathy from me when the usher escorts you out of the theater.  I’d rather see the movie without your distractions. I’d rather see chat used to help win the battle.

 

[the_coolerking]

Well said sir

            Regards the_coolerking

[Triela50]

I mouthed off to my parents once..........ONCE

[IronWolfV]

Well said Quaffer, but sadly will fall on largely deaf ears and blind eyes.

[IronWolfV]

I mouthed off to my parents once..........ONCE

 

You're braver than I was.

[surratus]

Well said! (Although can we avoid the "toe the line" reference?  Past memories of yellow lines and yelling humans.)

[Quaffer]

Well TalonV, if you don't share your values with others you have no right to complain when others don't adopt them.

 

Triela50, I wore a fat lip for a week when I told my mother "no" in my fathers presence.

 

 

[IronWolfV]

Well TalonV, if you don't share your values with others you have no right to complain when others don't adopt them.

 

Triela50, I wore a fat lip for a week when I told my mother "no" in my fathers presence.

 

 

 

Quaffer, I learned long ago, most people these days fall under the header of IDGAF.

[BlazerSparta]

This is totally going to get locked.

 

But that being said.....no, that's not entirely correct.

 

For example, most western societies have anti discrimination laws that regulate if a private individual or organisation is allowed to refuse service.

 

While some instances take that too far, it is something that ultimately IS needed to maintain a functioning society - if natural market forces were sufficient to stamp that behaviour out, the laws wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

 

~~~~~~

 

Fine, while I grant that someone running a server does have some right to control the environment their server has, that right als has limits and responsibility attached to it.

 

First and foremost, the right to moderate your server or forum comes with the responsibility to post CLEAR and EXPLICIT rules.

 

Not the bullcrap WG has, while basically boils down to "we ban anything we arbitrarily don't like".

 

An additional aspect of that is to apply the rules uniformly and fairly - again, something WG fails at.

 

For example, any post showing data on the specific costs, for repairs, or ammo, is removed without warning, even though any schmuck that can play the games and access the forums can calculate those for themselves. Such information is obtainable via regular gameplay - yet it isn't allowed.

 

On the other hand, we see information on leaked content all the time. There was a post linking to Stuntman's stat leaks that had been active on the forum for ,I think, over a month. That IS unreleased content. That IS datamined information. Yet that is NOT moderated.

 

~~~~~~

 

Total freedom does not exist. This includes the freedom to run your server, or forum, or business however you please.

 

All freedoms come with responsibilities and limitations.

 

Statements like OP are defending rights without insisting that the attending responsibilities be reserved - and nothing good will ever come from that.

[SloppyJ0e]

[anonym_omWsRkUfRM18]

I mouthed off to my parents once..........ONCE

 

[1Sherman]

Free speech is the right to express your opinion in a public venue. 

 

While I agree with what you're trying to say, your definition of free speech is incorrect. Free speech is the right to criticize the government without fear of incarceration.

[BlazerSparta]

While I agree with what you're trying to say, your definition of free speech is incorrect. Free speech is the right to criticize the government without fear of incarceration.

 

That's what the US constitution defines. The principle itself is somewhat wider.

 

Let's say you insult someone's ...... no real politics, so let's call it someone's waifu.

 

A bunch of fans of this waifu all scream you down, or riot, send you credible death threats, etc.

 

Most of us would agree you should have the freedom to call people's waifus crap.....yet under your definition of free speech, that would not be protected.

[Skpstr]

I wore a fat lip for a week when I told my mother "no" in my fathers presence.

 

 

No father here, so I got the wooden spoon. When I was too big for that, grounding. I learned well enough from that.

 

Most of the kids that I knew that got hit didn't learn nearly as quickly, because while I was confined to the house for 2 weeks, they were out playing, any fat lips long since healed.

[Skpstr]

 

While I agree with what you're trying to say, your definition of free speech is incorrect. Free speech is the right to criticize the government without fear of incarceration.

 

It's also advocacy of ideas that are unpopular, distasteful, or otherwise against public policy, subject to exclusions that are lewd or obscene, or incite lawlessness, plagiarise, etc.

 

As far as a private venue, it's not so much that your right to free speech doesn't apply, it's that you can be legally ejected for any reason, and speech your host doesn't want to hear is just one.

[1Sherman]

 

That's what the US constitution defines. The principle itself is somewhat wider.

 

Let's say you insult someone's ...... no real politics, so let's call it someone's waifu.

 

A bunch of fans of this waifu all scream you down, or riot, send you credible death threats, etc.

 

Most of us would agree you should have the freedom to call people's waifus crap.....yet under your definition of free speech, that would not be protected.

 

That's because it's not protected. There's nothing stopping the fans of the waifu from telling you to never insult their waifu again or from taking steps to keep you from insulting the waifu again. In my home country of Canada, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows for limited restriction of free speech under justified circumstances (e.g. perjury, hate speech, etc.) and there are laws that allow for Canadians to sue someone for defamation, libel, or slander (though AFAIK this law is not often used by most people because of a combination of the general niceness of Canadians and that it's usually only corporations, businesses, and media outlets that care enough about nasty stuff said about or to them to take it to court).

[SloppyJ0e]

Also, inb4 this thread is locked 

 

[BlazerSparta]

That's because it's not protected. There's nothing stopping the fans of the waifu from telling you to never insult their waifu again or from taking steps to keep you from insulting the waifu again. In my home country of Canada, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows for limited restriction of free speech under justified circumstances (e.g. perjury, hate speech, etc.) and there are laws that allow for Canadians to sue someone for defamation, libel, or slander (though AFAIK this law is not often used by most people because of a combination of the general niceness of Canadians and that it's usually only corporations, businesses, and media outlets that care enough about nasty stuff said about or to them to take it to court).

 

......This is a really difficult conversation to have without being able to discuss the real world.

[Wombatmetal]

This is totally going to get locked.

 

But that being said.....no, that's not entirely correct.

 

For example, most western societies have anti discrimination laws that regulate if a private individual or organisation is allowed to refuse service.

 

While some instances take that too far, it is something that ultimately IS needed to maintain a functioning society - if natural market forces were sufficient to stamp that behaviour out, the laws wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

 

~~~~~~

 

Fine, while I grant that someone running a server does have some right to control the environment their server has, that right als has limits and responsibility attached to it.

 

First and foremost, the right to moderate your server or forum comes with the responsibility to post CLEAR and EXPLICIT rules.

 

Not the bullcrap WG has, while basically boils down to "we ban anything we arbitrarily don't like".

 

An additional aspect of that is to apply the rules uniformly and fairly - again, something WG fails at.

 

For example, any post showing data on the specific costs, for repairs, or ammo, is removed without warning, even though any schmuck that can play the games and access the forums can calculate those for themselves. Such information is obtainable via regular gameplay - yet it isn't allowed.

 

On the other hand, we see information on leaked content all the time. There was a post linking to Stuntman's stat leaks that had been active on the forum for ,I think, over a month. That IS unreleased content. That IS datamined information. Yet that is NOT moderated.

 

~~~~~~

 

Total freedom does not exist. This includes the freedom to run your server, or forum, or business however you please.

 

All freedoms come with responsibilities and limitations.

 

Statements like OP are defending rights without insisting that the attending responsibilities be reserved - and nothing good will ever come from that.

 

You are not correct either. If you provide a service, you must provide it to all and you cannot refuse to offer it to a protected group. You can refuse service to individuals for bad behavior. 

 

You also don't have a right to belong to a forum. The owner can boot you for practically any reason short of belonging to a protected class. And that would be hard to prove as we don't know that infor about anyone. Forum rules as long as they apply to everyone evenly are fine because you do not have the right to walk into someone else's house and use whatever language you want. Most freedom of speech cases revolve around the public square, WOWS is not that, it is a private area and they have more latitude for restricting action which you agree to in the EULA you did not read

 

There are words that the courts have recognized as inflammatory and you do not have a right to say them. 

[VTAdmiral]

I mouthed off to my parents once..........ONCE

 

Meanwhile I learned from my brother's mistakes.

[BlazerSparta]

Forum rules as long as they apply to everyone evenly are fine ...

 

I specifically addressed this.

 

WG does not evenly apply their rules in any way commonly regarded as "fair" or "even"

[HMCS_Devilfish]

Nice ... fully agree ,I also when players go way overboard in chat and that takes some doing .. I report em

[atPrick__]

If a Forumer makes false reports they should receive equal punishment as users of this forum who break the rules.

 

It should be against the rules to spam that report button over and over. Wouldn't bother me if it was completely removed, or at least limited to a certain number just like the upvotes....

 

 

[ChairInABasket]

you must be obnoxious as hell IRL

[Wombatmetal]

If a Forumer makes false reports they should receive equal punishment as users of this forum who break the rules.

 

It should be against the rules to spam that report button over and over. Wouldn't bother me if it was completely removed, or at least limited to a certain number just like the upvotes....

 

 

 

You can spam the report button as many times as you like, only the first one counts