Smoke and Matchmaking

[Terrible_Turtle]

Since the RN CL line is so unique, I'd much prefer that MM treat them as their own class, such that each team has the same number of British cruisers.

 

I had a game this morning in which the red team had 4 Leanders and our team didn't have a single RN CL. How do you think the match went? 

 

Smoke. Smoke. And more smoke. Everywhere... just smoke. 

 

 

Honestly felt like "World of Smoke Couds"

 

It was the most irritating game I've played in a long time. Couldn't do anything as both teams just meandered around waiting for something to shoot at. 

 

We won the game, but the first 10 minutes were extremely uneventful and boring.

 

Anyway, I would simply propose to WG that RN CLs be evenly distributed between teams. 

 

That's all. 

 

 

EDIT: Below is a schematic of the stand-off. There were some skirmishes at A and B, but 80-90% of both teams pushed the east side of the map. The four Leanders and one of their DDs laid down smoke screens and completely shut down any activity on that side. Our DDs tried to scout and launched multiple spreads into the smoke, but to no avail. As for radar, none of our ships had it equipped. As for hydro, anyone foolish enough to charge that many ships would be an idiot. 

 

 

 

[Rilak]

this may be a shock to some but aggressive play will defeat smoke. point your BB  or CA at the smoke dodge a bit as you move in and you can kill the Rn ca once it lights at 2km -5km with hydro. 10km with radar.. u could lose  1/2 you're hp gasp.... if there are 2 in the smoke well you better bring some friends to the party,  or better yet send in the torps 

[Terrible_Turtle]

this may be a shock to some but aggressive play will defeat smoke. point your BB  or CA at the smoke dodge a bit as you move in and you can kill the Rn ca once it lights at 2km -5km with hydro. 10km with radar.. u could lose  1/2 you're hp gasp.... if there are 2 in the smoke well you better bring some friends to the party,  or better yet send in the torps 

 

Maybe one on one. In this case, charging into smoke with the entirety of the enemy team sitting behind it? Bad idea. Especially considering your fellow teammates aren't likely to follow. The sit-and-wait tactic was certainly the right one in this situation. We just needed to let the smoke dissipate and then make our move. Until then, any pushes would have been premature. 

[alexf24]

Distribution between teams as you suggest would be nice. I suspect it will come in time.

 

Smoke? Radar, Hydro and torpedo magnets. NBD.

[_HerrscherOfTheVoid]

this may be a shock to some but aggressive play will defeat smoke. point your BB  or CA at the smoke dodge a bit as you move in and you can kill the Rn ca once it lights at 2km -5km with hydro. 10km with radar.. u could lose  1/2 you're hp gasp.... if there are 2 in the smoke well you better bring some friends to the party,  or better yet send in the torps 

 

 

Maybe one on one. In this case, charging into smoke with the entirety of the enemy team sitting behind it? Bad idea. Especially considering your fellow teammates aren't likely to follow. The sit-and-wait tactic was certainly the right one in this situation. We just needed to let the smoke dissipate and then make our move. Until then, any pushes would have been premature. 

 

Even a 1 on 1 is daring. Already tried charging a smoke... it was a shima (I saw it when I got close enough to see and regret it)!

My Yamato was with ~50k hp. The next message was "Devastating Strike"...  

I will never do this mistake again xD

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

 

Even a 1 on 1 is daring. Already tried charging a smoke... it was a shima!

My Yamato was with ~50k hp. The next message was "Devastating Strike"...  

I will never do this mistake again xD

 

True... not knowing whether it's a CL or a DD makes charging smoke a huge gamble. 

[Skpstr]

this may be a shock to some but aggressive play will defeat smoke. point your BB  or CA at the smoke dodge a bit as you move in and you can kill the Rn ca once it lights at 2km -5km with hydro. 10km with radar.. u could lose  1/2 you're hp gasp.... if there are 2 in the smoke well you better bring some friends to the party,  or better yet send in the torps 

 

What also may be a shock to some is that most players will leave it to somebody else to be aggressive and defeat the smoke. When everyone does that, (and chances are it will happen more often than not) gameplay stagnates. Or the meta will change to whatever makes it easiest to deal with without resorting to smart play.

 

It's one thing to say, "if you don't play smart, you'll lose.", because somebody has to lose anyway, and even leaving to play another game won't change anything.

 

It's completely different to say, "if you don't play smart, the game will be boring and frustrating.", because the game doesn't have to be that way, and playing something else CAN solve that issue.

 

IOW, you can base winning/losing on smart play, but you can't base the game being enjoyable on smart play, because as we know, smart play is uncommon if not rare.

 

[HazardDrake]

Since the RN CL line is so unique, I'd much prefer that MM treat them as their own class, such that each team has the same number of British cruisers.

 

I had a game this morning in which the red team had 4 Leanders and our team didn't have a single RN CL. How do you think the match went? 

Well, if your team was compitent, the enemy team should be down four cruisers relatively early in the match.

[SireneRacker]

Once upon a time the MM divided all ships in a way that they were divided equally by nations. This prevented the 4 Cleveland vs. 4 Aoba scenario. They took it out, don'T ask me why. But this would definitly solve your problem

[Terrible_Turtle]

Once upon a time the MM divided all ships in a way that they were divided equally by nations. This prevented the 4 Cleveland vs. 4 Aoba scenario. They took it out, don'T ask me why. But this would definitly solve your problem

 

Yes it would. 

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

What also may be a shock to some is that most players will leave it to somebody else to be aggressive and defeat the smoke. When everyone does that, (and chances are it will happen more often than not) gameplay stagnates. Or the meta will change to whatever makes it easiest to deal with without resorting to smart play.

 

It's one thing to say, "if you don't play smart, you'll lose.", because somebody has to lose anyway, and even leaving to play another game won't change anything.

 

It's completely different to say, "if you don't play smart, the game will be boring and frustrating.", because the game doesn't have to be that way, and playing something else CAN solve that issue.

 

IOW, you can base winning/losing on smart play, but you can't base the game being enjoyable on smart play, because as we know, smart play is uncommon if not rare.

 

 

Smart players are aggressive when they know what they're up against. In this case, pushing aggressively into smoke would've been foolish. Fortunately, our team was patient enough to let the smoke dissipate. Once the RN CLs were spotted, they got focused down quickly. 

[_HerrscherOfTheVoid]

Once upon a time the MM divided all ships in a way that they were divided equally by nations. This prevented the 4 Cleveland vs. 4 Aoba scenario. They took it out, don'T ask me why. But this would definitly solve your problem

 

I remember reading it's like that but only for the higher tier ships in that match.

Example: 3 Montanas, 2 Yamatos, 1 Kurfurst:

Montana | Montana

Montana | Yamato

Yamato   | Kurfurst

Iowa       | Izumo

Iowa       | Izumo

[FogInvader]

*puff puff*

[Compassghost]

So I'd never be able to play Minotaur again?

 

[Skpstr]

 

Smart players are aggressive when they know what they're up against. In this case, pushing aggressively into smoke would've been foolish. Fortunately, our team was patient enough to let the smoke dissipate. Once the RN CLs were spotted, they got focused down quickly. 

 

It's the same result though. You ended up with boredom and frustration until the smoke went away.

[Terrible_Turtle]

So I'd never be able to play Minotaur again?

 

How do you figure? I'm proposing that if there are four Minotaurs in a match that they be evenly distributed between the teams. If there's only one, then there's no issue. Although I'm pretty sure they'll already be evenly distributed since top tier ships are usually divided up evenly. 

[_HerrscherOfTheVoid]

 

Yes it would. 

 

Once upon a time the MM divided all ships in a way that they were divided equally by nations. This prevented the 4 Cleveland vs. 4 Aoba scenario. They took it out, don'T ask me why. But this would definitly solve your problem

 

Found it~!

 

Now the matchmaker tries to uniformly distribute ships of different nations between the teams. For example, if two Soviet Gnevny destroyers and two Japanese Minekaze destroyers are present, the matchmaker will attempt to put one destroyer of each nation on each team. This rule will positively affect the quality of team balancing and make battles more even.

 

0.5.9 update!

http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/update-notes-059/

[Compassghost]

 

How do you figure? I'm proposing that if there are four Minotaurs in a match that they be evenly distributed between the teams. If there's only one, then there's no issue. Although I'm pretty sure they'll already be evenly distributed since top tier ships are usually divided up evenly. 

 

What if I'm in a division of Minotaurs and there's no other Minotaurs?

[Terrible_Turtle]

 

It's the same result though. You ended up with boredom and frustration until the smoke went away.

 

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Agreed. +1

[13th_Earl_White_Haven]

 

What if I'm in a division of Minotaurs and there's no other Minotaurs?

 

Then you are an evil person and my evilness approves greatly lol. No symmetrical match making, I dont want to wait forever at t10 for a match like carriers all over again.

[Cpt_RickSchwifty]

It's an issue in ranked as well.

 

I find that MM loves to stack things, it will give one team all the radar and sonar and the other team a kutzov.

 

They really need to increase the MM complexity to account for gun boat DDs vs Torp DDs. Radar cruisers vs non radar.

 

At least a few extra lines of code so that it will try its best to give an even number of smoke/anti smoke ships to each team.

 

I have a hunch that MM does not take currently equipped consumables into account and that is the issue. 

 

 

[Lillehuntrix]

I charged smoke earlier in the week in a Kongo, and discovered two RN CLs and not one.  Wrong decision on my part.

 

Anyway, while we are on the topic, I wouldn't mind them taking a look at division balance mechanics given the new line.  MM makes some effort to match divisions (since teamwork OP, and teamwork not limited by the chat window hella OP), but two Aobas in a division is a different prospect than two Leanders in a division trading smokes.

[Summon3r]

agreed smoke is WAY WAY out of control as it stands now, it was fine when DD's and the odd premium ran it but now its just out of control.

 

and yes point your BB or CA at the smoke and charge works great till those guys in the smoke just launch torpedus soup at you and your friends.

 

personally dont think its game breaking quite yet but for a lot of people it just may be, and there is no radar in the lower tiers to hard counter it.

[SireneRacker]

 

 

Found it~!

 

Now the matchmaker tries to uniformly distribute ships of different nations between the teams. For example, if two Soviet Gnevny destroyers and two Japanese Minekaze destroyers are present, the matchmaker will attempt to put one destroyer of each nation on each team. This rule will positively affect the quality of team balancing and make battles more even.

 

0.5.9 update!

http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/update-notes-059/

 

At some point it was removed again. I posted this issue some time ago

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/93508-some-words-to-the-mm/page__fromsearch__1

and can only hope that one day WG will return to the old system. Because even the highest Tier ships in this match were misplaced. And it could've been avoided with a simple exchange of two ships.

[Naughtius_Maximus]

Wait so they smoked in a way that gave them zero objectives?

 

I can see how you won.

 

I am also confused here, do RN CL smoke deploying durations increase or something? Because Emerald offers just two smoke circles and then it's done. That is not even enough to stay in after deploying, unless you like traveling at super slow speeds with a ship made of citadel.