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Found 84 results

  1. Hello folks, Having played as and against subs, and being a submarine fanatic, I have seen that the submarines are currently implemented poorly. The matches I play as subs are either 150k+ dmg matches where you butcher a helpless enemy team, or frustrating 0 dmg insta-deaths where you get annihilated by swarms of depth charge bombers. The current implementation has serious problems, and much of the community would rather bandwagon on the hate-train against subs opposed to actually offering solutions that satisfy everyone. I intend here to provide a conclusive solution that will satisfy all players, submarine enjoyer and otherwise. The solution to submarines is as follows: 1: Remove homing torpedoes and depth charge planes. Reasoning: Homing torpedoes drag the skill floor of submarines way too low, and allow subs to strike targets they definitely shouldn't be. For example, these homing torpedoes can counter DDs/cruisers sitting in smoke, submarines even partially countering DDs is extremely silly. As for depth charge planes; this means that BBs become the primary counters to submarines, I can definitely testify to this from personal experience. The design of submarines should be focused on how they fit into the game as a whole, BBs countering subs better than DDs is insane. DDs should be the primary counter to submarines, more on this later. All classes of ship should have access to simple depth charges, with DDs possessing the best (greatest quantity of depth charges released). 2: Refocus the purpose of submarines to be anti-CV. Reasoning: CVs are known for playing an extremely safe, passive playstyle with respect to their ships positioning and movement. They currently have no counter, submarines can fill this void. Giving submarines increased damage, even a chance to land citadel torpedoes against CVs ONLY. This increased damage potential will motivate many submarines to seek out CVs. People will often go where their most reliable way to get damage and citadel ribbons is, this is how you can motivate anti-CV play. 3: Allow nuance in play for submarines by changing how sonar works. The submarine should draw inspiration from the Spy from Team Fortress 2, a backline assassin with a few distinct methods of play, either super stealthy but only able to harass a few (albeit more reliable) backline targets, or super high risk high reward (less stealthy). Here is what I mean, the sonar ping and hydrophone consumable should both be removed in favor of a toggleable sonar. When the sonar is turned off, you are blind, but are far harder to detect, only able to see other submarines at extremely close range (where you can hear their propellers). This allows for a low-risk way for the sub player to sneak past the frontline and sneak to the backline where its intended targets are, CVs and sniper BBs. The alternative would be to turn on the sonar which would reveal the submarine to other submarines underwater from a significant distance (5-10 km depending on concealment). This offers a higher risk, high reward style of play, with the sonar having a long range detection of underwater ships, while a shorter range (~75% of underwater) detection of surface ships. The hydroacoustic search consumable should only find submarines who either have their sonars on, or are extremely close (where the propellers can be heard by the hydroacoustic instruments). 4: Change how submarine spotting works. When a submarine spots another submarine currently, if both of the subs are near the frontline, they both get descended upon by tons of depth charge bombers and often both die before they can even kill one another. After my suggested changes, the subs will now be able to duel properly if they so choose to by turning on their sonars. However a submarine being a hard to spot machine itself, it being able to spot everything better than a DD makes no sense. So rather instead of a sub being able to spot enemy ships with its sonar, it instead only spots the ships for itself (and possibly for friendly submarines). If the sub is at periscope depth or the surface, the spotting functions as normal, but comes with the downside that it is detectable by nearby surface ships. 5: Revert the dive timer back to the battery. This is a no-brainer, simply make the sonar consume battery when it is on. This would make submarine duels extremely interesting games of battery management, juking/3D positioning, and leading torpedo shots. I suggest allowing submarine torpedoes to arm much sooner, allowing for closer knife-fights underwater. 6: Make the different depths matter, and partially revert the diving ability. The 60m depth should make the submarine extremely hard to spot, and reduce/eliminate the damage from depth charges. The downside of this would be purely the agility of the torpedoes themselves. Torpedoes can only rise so quickly, so this would significantly limit the subs ability to deal with close range targets, and without guided torpedoes the long range targets are much harder to hit. This balances itself out. The periscope depth should, like a few submarine updates prior, allow for the recharge of the battery. As for the diving ability, to prevent abuse it is good to leave the surface and the periscope depths as preset depths where you cant feather in between periscope depth and just below it, however below a certain depth the diving/ascent shouldn't be constrained by preset depths, only having a maximum depth which can vary by the submarine (this wont be too much of a problem in submarine duels if my point #8 is added). 7: Reassert the DDs place as the submarine counter. DDs (and light cruisers to a lesser extent) should possess innate vertical sonar, giving a cylinder of detection directly below itself, perhaps about 200m in radius. This, coupled with my change to spotting, means that if your friendly submarine spots an enemy sub, your DDs will know the general area to start searching and should be able to find the sub quickly. This combined with being able to release a long chain of depth charges should scare many subs away from trying to meddle with the frontline, as usual they must take a high risk for the potential of a high reward. 8: (New mechanic) Allow for torpedoes to be aimed both horizontally AND vertically. This would simply add another axis to being able to launch torpedoes, this is so sub vs sub fights can allow for leading shots in all 3 axes of movement, since subs can juke by changing their depth. As stated previously torpedoes are only able to ascend/descend so fast, limiting the ability for subs to strike at surface ships from too deep down. I am convinced that submarines can be a fun addition to the game, where they also improve the health of the game by discouraging unfun playstyles. Should my changes be implemented, CVs will no longer be able to feel "safe" every single match, and be able to just sit in the back and send their planes out. This will force team coordination on the part of the CV (definitely a good thing), as should the CV wander too far away from friendly ships, they will easily fall prey to a sub. As a person who also enjoys CVs, I hate seeing CVs that just sit back and play it super safe all game. CVs should move up and act more as a part of a battlegroup. This to me is the most enjoyable way to play as and against CVs, as it gives a chance for more daring players to attempt to pierce the battlegroup and strike the CV. I believe that subs can definitely function as a counter to the CV/sniper-heavy meta we've been seeing for a while. Subs will make the backline an extremely dangerous place to be, and encourage more active play on all parts. Thanks for reading my ten thousand leagues of text.
  2. Reduce maximum ping range to around 4km. Without a ping, homing torpedoes stop homing the moment they're spotted. Consider reducing torpedo speed when spotted as well. Without a ping, homing torpedoes track whatever ship you were pointing at/selecting when you launched them. With a ping, homing torpedoes work as normal. Improve submarine torpedo damage, flooding %, or reload time somewhat. With these changes, dodging homing torpedoes is now no worse than dodging other long-range torpedoes. The ping is no longer a constant annoyance, but instead a sign that there's a sub very close to you. Subs can no longer bullseye DDs hiding in smoke from outside the control point just because they did a good job clicking on the smoke. As a sub commander, you're even better at making long-range strikes against unwary carriers and sniping BBs, but in a more dynamic fight you just need to sneak around and wait for your chance.
  3. tm63au

    Wolfpacks

    I'm PRO Submarines But 1 DD on each side to contain Submarines. I'm a moderate on Subs in games but by WG standards, that's a Wolfpack, sure I don't have any problem with 3 Subs in game as long as there is enough DD's to counter them.
  4. DWT vs SUBS: Why Deep Water Torps can't hit a sub in Deep Water? That should be quite the opposite, i.e, a DWT should be able to hit SUBMERGED submarines, at Periscope and operations depth! And a sub should be safe from DWT when surfaced or at maximum depth! Currently, DWT can't hit subs at all, subs become just like DDs, no matter its depth. RATIONALE: The DWT fish swims at ~8...10m, while subs operating at periscope depth are ~9..10m deep. That should be a VALID TARGET, "hit-able' by DWT. While the same sub, while surfaced, have a draft smaller than 8m, so should be untouchable by DWT. Similar to maximum depth, as DWT are dumb, unguided. Probably in real life a sub at "operational depth", ~30m, should also be unreachable to DWT's. But I suggest this exception to reality favoring gameplay, so DWT can hit a sub at periscope and operational depths, but not while surface or at maximum depth.
  5. We have heard the anti SUB side of the story but I was wondering how you sub drivers feel. According to most people in the forum, you guys are able to dominate the game. You can slink around underwater undetected, fire off torpedoes, chase down the fastest ships, dominate the game sinking all surface ships in sight and you are invincible. No one can touch you. There are no weapons that can sink you. So what about it, do you feel you have such an over powered advantage that nothing in the game can stop you? In fact people are talking about leaving the game because you are so powerful you ruin World of Warships for everyone. Please, this is for the sub captains. There are plenty of notes for people who want to complain about submarines.
  6. Clear some things up (other than the disclaimer in the Sig.) Subs do belong in the game Just not like this... The current Development of subs is going backwards IMO.. Love the Sub Scenario when it premiered... My views are based on independent observation... The only caveat expressed is the "Fair play" doctrine... When play is no longer fair... Then the communities argument of WOWS, being a casino rather then a chess game of sea and digital boats... Well become more and more prevalent... Yes, I did watched the Sub myth busted twitch episode... Just because I know, doesn't mean I love the interaction presented... In a previous thread... https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/254753-subs/?tab=comments#comment-5748366 I posted this pic.. In that thread I called attention to how this 4km no mans land can be exploited by Sub players.. This exploit can be a match breaking... Mainly, BB drivers do not have a counter for these situations. As other noted in that thread... All you can do is turn tail and WASD to glory... Now here's a replay of the problem faced by BB drivers with this issue... In the Replay (20220507_210616_PASB518-Massachusetts_22_tierra_del_fuego.wowsreplay)... I knew where the SUB was Based on PING and last location on the Mini map... At close range, he was undetectable for A LOT of time... My options were Secondaries (they suck against subs) Guns (unable because the sub exploited the detection mechanic). RAM (unfortunate but yeah)... ASW planes (were moot/useless) Even though the SUB was the closer target... There was nothing I can do other then shot at a BB and cruiser... The replay starts and the end point is at the 13 min mark... The match itself was a lost cause... That's a minuscule detail considering the context.. If anything, a solution that is fair for both the SUB and the BB drivers must be devised... The current in game experience on the topic, is neither...
  7. magnus392

    Submarines Survey

    Starting a little poll, I don't know if it will stay up but hey, here's to trying. I get that they are here to stay, but playing against them is about as fun as having a frontal lobotomy. The "GIT GUD!" elitist can go away. WG likes to talk about their numbers and spreadsheets etc, well lets show them how we feel. Furthermore since I know the dumpsterfire known as Subs are here to stay, I strongly advocate for them to get their own game mode/scenarios. Their ability to "shotgun" inside of your ASB range and their spotting range is disgusting. Their ability to open water hunt you with near impunity is infuriating, and bluntly, they are not generally fun to play against. The proposed changes are not enough as shown by some pretty embarrassing YouTube footage, coupled with the extremely exploitable immunity zones that Subs can exploit is very disturbing. Yes, I use some inflammatory phraseology, but seriously... WarGaming has made all of these grand proclamations of being more transparent, vowing to listen to it's player base and YES they have made some strides in transparency. What I have seen and perceived ZERO movement on is listening to their player base. Locked threads about AA, the CC Disaster, the NDA's on test ships and closed testing of ships in development come to mind. Now we have T11 (Superships), still broken AA with no real CV counterplay and now Subs with the near exact problem of laughable counterplay, removal of achievement rewards, economy rework, commander reeeeee-work, and perceived tone deafness. That is before we talk about Super CVs!?!?! I don't intend for this to digress into a slogfest and am genuinely interested in legitimate feedback from the player base.
  8. I have been playing subs since they started . The hydroacoustic search assured sub detection needs modification seriously or people will stop playing subs. They have pretty much dialed them in except that the hydroacoustic search should not for sure pickup a sub at maximum depth at 2km. With low hp they die instantly. . Maybe alter depth charges from planes some? Suggestion #1 change- It should pickup sub upto 2km to say 40-45meters but not at at max depth a sub has to be able to escape away. With so many ships having hydro the team can keep a sub lit up constantly. Suggestion #2 change- also if a sub goes idle/silent (no engine or gears running -throttle stopped) then the hydro should stop picking them up at all except say maybe .5km if they are right below the other ship and hence the hydro man is hearing them. .
  9. Just a small poll on general opiñon for subs right now, on both the live server and test server. Feel free to write your opiñon as well.
  10. LastRemnant

    Supership Subs

    So wargaming when are you going to release a supership sub It's only fair after all ship class has at least one supership when will subs get some love How about this one or maybe the USS George Washington submarine so we can use these in the game But in all seriousness when wargaming
  11. Yeah, so I dont play many games on NA, a few games ago I had a game with 8 players a side, 3 subs + CV Posted it, Ashkance out it down to queue dump. And here we go again. really enjoy being outspotted by a CV and hunted by subs in a DD. Spent the entire game trying to break detection. Absoutly no chance to actually help the team. Oh and I nearly forgot about the ISE also heping to perma spot. Queue dump or no queue dump, 3 subs a side + a CV is just unplayable. Im rapidly losing interest in this game
  12. Look not getting to interact with CVs while they can damage surface ships was bad enough. Now the Subs have more health then DDs, better concealment then CVs and they can ping as quickly as 6 seconds. Something has to be done so surface ships can interact with sub more. 1. Double or triple the range of of anti sub planes. 2. Give forward firing depth charges sight. 3. Double the amount of depth charges per depth charges. 4. Double the size of depth charge coverage area 5. Allow Hydro acoustic search to detect subs at any depth inside the ship detection range 6. Limit how quickly subs can ping or give all surface ships more or unlimited damage control party 7. Make damage control party reload quicker We need more ways to interact with subs. For CVs make AA better and make CVs lose health for every plane that gets shot down.
  13. TL DR for those of you who don't care to watch the video or Flamu in general: If you keep your submarine in between 15 and 21m depth you get the benefits of periscope depth and the benefits of maximum depth at the same time. Inside this depth range in a sub you can spot for yourself and don't need to rely on teammates for vision. But enemies can't hit you with shells/torps/rockets, reveal you with radar, or spot you with planes. They can reveal you with hydro and depth charges can still damage you just like if you were at maximum depth. 15-21m depth is the sweet spot to close the distance for dev striking or farming from safety and the enemy can't do anything except spam depth charge airstrikes and hope they hit you. You do still burn dive time though so this is definitely a tactic that works better at tier X or in German subs. Obviously this was showcased in a testing environment, but how effective or reasonable could this be in a true pvp scenario? It does require some extra concentration to flutter the dive planes to maintain a specific depth, but that doesn't seem like a very high skill hurdle to pull this off compared to the advantages it brings over being at actual periscope depth.
  14. excelsior_one

    where's the hydro?

    If wargaming is hell bent on having subs in the game then all ships should have hydro period. historically almost all ships carried some sort of Asdic or Hydro especially towards the mid to late war. Torpedo's as well, again most ships had at least 1 double or triple launcher even on battleships or had plans showing them. Let's quit picking and choosing which historical equipment we chose to use for the sake of "balance"
  15. <sarcasm> So 8 ships per team, 1 CV , 3 subs. Fun AND engaging, great to see matchmaker working as intended. I particularly loved the part where I was getting sonar pinged from left and right simultaneously. The counterplay options open to me made this part of the game even more fun that DIY dentistry. </sarcasm> Added a sarcasm tag just to be safe.
  16. I just had a Fully-Flagged Randoms match with (on each team) 2 Subs, 4 DD's and a CV. So as I made the mistake of getting within 15km of a Cap Circle to support my CL's/DD's in my Thunderer (12km Conceal), I was immediately... 1. Discovered by CV Fighters 2. My "Priority Target" went to 5 3. Began taking HE Fire-Spam from a Sherman behind an island AND (as I was turning to run without firing a shot and ablaze) 4. was Sonar-Pinged twice and had to dodge torps. So, after a thoughtful Cap approach (interposing islands, no shooting... etc) within 5km of my BB's Max Main Battery Range, ALL attempts at Cap Support were ruined literally within 15 seconds and I took 1/3 of my health from things I couldn't see or fight. This was in no way challenging or fun and my skill had no effect on the outcome aside from immediately running and living till match-end, not that it mattered. This was just awful... I have an above-meh Avg.Damage in BB's (got the Badge for 93K Avg) and Thunderer is a great bote (though her dispersion has been questionable of late), but despite my best efforts I spent the entire match running for my life and dodging to a 35K "Victory" because our CV/DD's/Subs were better. Better ASW/AA/Dam.Con/New Support Ships etc. is NOT an answer to this... This is simply and obviously the result of adding unavoidable/undetectable attack forms to a game mostly comprised of ships that have neither. They may be "cool" and a portion of our community enjoys them (all respect), but the same could be said for Satellite Lasers... so why not. CV's and Subs were absolutely a big part of WWII Naval Warfare and their inclusion IS valid and interesting, but so was the Atom Bomb. Please Wargaming, make a "Brawl Mode" with no CV's/Subs so those of us who do not enjoy being fried fish-in-a-barrel can have fun and benefit from hard-earned skills such as Angling, Stealth and Cap Support. Otherwise please start-up the Enola Gay and be done with it. If the game was like this in 2015 I never would have installed it.
  17. Has anyone seen anything from WG about their plans now for subs, or NEVER subs?
  18. SpookyTexan

    Sub's

    Been Playin PT and the new iteration of SUB's is over powered and Broken, even the counters we have are not enough even damage control to reduce ping is broken subs can keep pinging after a very short wait...
  19. I see they FINALLY decided to add Submarines to WoW but I see (from the looks) it's only available in PC play? Is it available for the Console access of the game?? From the looks of it, Subs are basically the snipers of the seas??
  20. DominicusD

    Easy Come, Easy Go

    oH weLL . . . . .
  21. So as we are all painfully aware, both subs AND superships are being "tested" in random battles during 0.11.0 and the foreseeable future... Now sidestepping the whole "Are these ships good for the game?" question (they aren't), the reason we have been given for why they are being tested in this way is "It's important to test these ships in a 12v12 environment that accurately reflects the normal game." Now that is a fair enough reason, but why that doesn't explain why they are being given to everyone. First, doing so basically just acts like a full release, which should never happen for things in testing. Second, testing both subs and superships at the same time will compound the negative effects each have on the game, which should never happen for things in testing. Third, as already proven by WG, they have rather long update cycles which can leave the game in shambles for an entire month or more, which should never happen for things in testing. So you have a dilemma, you need to test these ships in their final environment, but you can't just let them loose into the game (like they are doing) because that could cause issues so severe that it could kill the game... If only WG had a group of screened volunteers they could give these ships to for the purpose of testing... So here is my real question, why the f*** were both subs and superships added for everyone to test, when there is already a group that handles this sort of thing? This option would keep major issues with these new ships limited to a fraction of the battles in the game while also having the benefit of a sizeable test pool to gather WG's "data" on. You know, like all other testships... Or is it that WG is introducing so many other premiums and tech tree lines, the supertesters already have far too much to test?
  22. I wanted to know public opinion on subs at the moment.
  23. So In the patch notes for 0.10.10, there is a really long winded section about how they are going to change subs in the update, but at no point does it explicitly state "testing will continue in 0.10.10". The closest I could find was this "With that being said, we will continue testing subs, despite the fixes planned for release with Update 0.10.10," which is rather ambiguous and could be interperated in different ways. So my question is this: Are subs going to be playable in 0.10.10? Yes or No? I don't want speculation, I would like a definitive answer from the likes of @Boggzy or a direct quote from a dev blog/news article. Thanks in advance...
  24. Florendo19

    Sub how to play?

    So I've been playing subs lately because well someone has to play them for testing. There are a lot of things I don't like about them but that's not why I'm here. What I want to ask is how have other people been playing subs? So far I've found about two basic ways of playing subs largely based off of my old torpedo DD style mixed with some back line BB sniping. The first is to sit on the surface and just dump torps and ping lead them from a good spot with lots of targets. Kinda feels sniper like and can lock down a push of a ship or two as long as you out conceal them. Honestly this is the most boring play style I've found for subs but it works and takes advantage of the most broken aspects of subs, namely the homing torps, while keeping maximum battery for emergencies and maintaining vision which you loose going under. The second style I've found is based of of a combination of mobility and recklessness. Use the 3d nature of subs to pop up places you shouldn't be. This requires some level of guess work as to where red ships are going to be as you want to pop up in torp range but not right under them or you can get killed fast. This is by far the most entertaining play style for subs as it opens the most tactical opportunities and requires some familiarity with the game and players to guess where they are when your under water. The most fun I've had with this play style is when I shot up a CA then went under for almost the full duration of my battery to get behind the DD coming to hunt me then went to periscope and torped him from 5km away. Yeah the Homing torps played a big part and were totally broken but it was a big rush getting that hit before the hunter even knew I was there. Of course that's when it went right since I 've also gotten rammed a couple times pulling that maneuver. Players are still learning the optimal ways of dealing with subs so I don't think this will be a long term play style as it relies largely on surface ships not expecting you to do well sub things. As some thing of a side note playing the hunter, DDs, I've noticed that the depth charges for different ships have different patterns such as Gearings side to side behind, Halland's straight line ahead and others that just have a rolling rack on the aft. I would appreciate knowing where my depth charges are going as the DD but appreciate that the sub doesn't know exactly how the pattern will fall until they see the glowing orange dots descending on them. I personally think that either DDs should get some sort of indicator showing their drop pattern pre drop (you make the mistake of droping charges after being past your target once and never again) or that depth charges should not be in bright orange under water so both sides have to go by the splashes and explosions to figure out where the charges are. My primary purpose playing subs it to find out their best strategies so I know how to counter them. since they look like there going to stay I find it best to adapt as fast as possible.
  25. As per the title. http://surveys.wargaming.net/s3/SubsRegular-NA There are some interesting questions, so I recommend to ...speak out.
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