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Found 11 results

  1. xRaemus

    Roma Needs Some Love

    So I got Roma last night and if my name is any hint I love Italy, Rome, and most certainly the Littorio Class battleship, which is why I was so disappointed when I took her out. I may have been over hyped for my favorite Battleship class of World War Two but it completely undershot most of my expectations. First off tho i'll get the pros out of the way so everybody knows Im not just hating Pros Maneuverability - No battleship I've ever used responds as well as Roma does to commands and you can easily torpedobeat, her acceleration and deceleration are quite good except when your going full then of course it does take a bit to stop. Concealment - Unless a dd is spotting a Roma won't be detected unless it either wants to be or closes to fast. HP Pool - very nice 65,400hp which comes in handy cause the armor is blah Looks - By far (IMO) the sexiest battleship in the game, to include the peppermint flavored bow which is historical :P Torpedo Protection - Not sure why but Roma has 40% Torpedo damage reduction Cons AA - I dont mind this much since there are not many CVs and it was said that itd have terrible AA. Had trouble shooting down T6 planes yesterday but again Im okay with this. Armor - I have some issue with the armor, that being the 130mm plate which eats more citadels then I care to confess and had me literally yelling Mamma Mia when a Colorado decided that he wanted a piece of my angled Roma. It seems to take more damage then my Alabama and Amagi but I think that is just me. Range - Here is where I start have serious problems with the ship, the range is 18.1km which is quite terrible and less then every other tier 8 battleship including Tirpitz and Kii which are not exactly snipers and WG literally said on the post(For people who like to engage at range) So 20km please and ill be good. Willing to bring torp protection and concealment to get that 20km range cause 11.2km detection with full stealth in unnecessary. Guns - Sign this is my biggest issue, like wth I thought Italian BBs were being marketed as having very good AP and yet here is Roma. I can deal with the 18km range and the armor and the AA but this is the part that I hate the most. The dispersion on these guns is absolute terrible at 10km+ and even at 4.6km when I was firing at a Bismarck trying to hit Superstructure my rounds when over and under the ship but none where hitting. Then when the rounds do hit the AP is quite terrible on the penetration damage. Due to the 15inch guns and mm you'll get up-tiered to T10 a lot and you'll struggle of course but even when youp tier I get more pens that do no damage then any other ship and overall landing hits is quite hard. Broadside Nuremberg at 10km, all bb drivers love this, fires full broadside and gets 1 pen -2000(um what?) 2 over pens(seriously) the rest went high or low. RNG played its part(my thoughts) and reengaged and basically the same thing. In conclusion buff the range and dispersion. You can nerf concealment and torp protection all you want but please at least the dispersion and maybe a tweek to how the AP works so it doesn't bounce as often. Overall I would rate her a 6/10. The guns and range really hurt the ship. Yes if you check my stats I did get a Kraken with Roma last night but I was top tier and 3 of those kills were pretty much somebody else did the majority of the damage and I just secured(my most shameful kraken ever at 106k damage). Im averaging around 67% wins but im at around 15 battles now and most of those I had to be carried cause the ship doesn't perform well. Around 60k per battle, for comparison my North Carolina gets me around 92k a match and has 88% wins. Thank you for the read and have a great day!!!
  2. The following is a review of Roma, a ship kindly provided to me by Wargaming. As far as I am aware, this is the release version of the vessel and these stats are current as of January 12th, 2018. However, things may change before release. GARBAGE - The boat is unbalanced, not fun to play and weak. The ship desperately needs some buffs or some quality of life changes. Mehbote - An average ship. Has strengths and weaknesses. Doesn't need buffs to be viable however she's not going to be considered optimal. Gudbote - A powerful ship, often one of the best ships at a given role within its tier. Usually considered optimal for a given task. OVERPOWERED - The boat is unbalanced and powerful. Typically she's either horrible to play against or she redefines the meta entirely. Quick Summary: A fast, sneaky battleship with excellent gun handling on its nine 381mm rifles. Cost: Undisclosed at the time of publishing. Patch & Date Written: Patch 0.6.15.1 to January 1st through 12th, 2018. PROs Has an extended belt which reaches halfway up the prow. Excellent gun handling with fast turret traverse. Phenomenal muzzle velocity and energy retention, giving her fast shell flight times over distance. Great AP penetration power over range. Good concealment with a 14.9km surface detection range which can be reduced down to 11.2km. CONs Citadel sits well above the waterline. Short ranged for a tier VIII battleship at 18.1km. Her guns misbehave, with poor dispersion values, overmatch problems and overpenetration after overpenetration. Awful HE performance with low alpha strike, poor fire chance and mediocre module damage. Anti-aircraft firepower is short ranged with only modest DPS. Large turning radius, mediocre ship rotation rate. Overview Skill Floor: Simple / Casual / Challenging / Difficult Skill Ceiling: Low / Moderate / High / Extreme The ease of her game play is facilitated by her excellent gun handling and good concealment values which will make her more forgiving to novice players. However, her raised citadel and gun accuracy will cause them problems. The combination of high concealment, speed and firepower will be of interest to Veterans and the power of these traits must not be overlooked. Roma's citadel and her smaller-caliber AP shells will hold her back from being a true monster, though. Roma is not a complicated battleship to play. She has no gimmicks to espouse. The summation of her various traits is as follows, with a more thorough breakdown found below in the larger sections. GARBAGE - One of, if not the worst at its tier. This is a pronounced weakness. MEH - Middle of the pack at its tier. Not terrible, but not terribly good either.GUD - Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer.BEST - No other ship at its tier does this as well as this ship. Roma is no up-scaled Giulio Cesare. Her guns are average and she has mediocre durability and agility. She has no gimmicks to speak of. The only thing she does well is hide and her AA power is hot garbage With all of these disparate traits, she probably doesn't look very appealing. So how the heck did I reach a "Gudbote" conclusion? Well, let's look into that... Options Like the Japanese premium battleships Kii and Ashitaka, Roma is receiving a special camouflage designed by Makoto Kobayashi. This is not just a skin, but a full on geometry change for the ship, including the infamous "beer can" where her rangefinders would be. It will likely be available through the larger bundle packages when you buy the ship through the online store. Consumables: Roma's Damage Control Party is standard for a non-American / Japanese battleship with a 15s active period and a 120s / 80s reset timer depending on which version you purchase. Her Repair Party is also standard, healing back 14% of her maximum health over 28s. Finally, her Spotter Aircraft is normal. You can swap this out for a Float Plane Fighter which provides 57 DPS and boasts 1,590hp. She has higher DPS than Japanese or American float plane fighters and more hit points than Japanese, American or British fighters. Premium Camouflage: There are two available: The default, Standard Type 10 camouflage provides 50% bonus experience gains, a 10% reduction to maintenance costs, 3% reduction in surface detection and 4% reduction in enemy accuracy. The Makoto Kobayashi - Roma camouflage provides 100% bonus experience gains, -50% to the post-battle service costs, +20% bonus credit earning, 3% reduction in surface detection and 4% reduction in enemy accuracy. When I first saw this alternative camouflage scheme, I thought it looked ridiculous. However it has really grown on me. The amount of small detail is spectacular. Plus, it looks like Roma is wearing a hat. I like it when not-people things wear hats. Ergo, I like this camo. Module Upgrades: Five slots, standard battleship options. In your first slot, take Main Armaments Modification 1. Next, take Damage Control Modification 1. In your third slot, Aiming Systems Modification 1 is optimal. It's not worth trying to upgrade her AA Guns or Secondaries. Damage Control Modification 2 is optimal for her fourth slot. You may be tempted to take Steering Gears Modification 2 but this will not significantly improve her agility . Finally, take Concealment Modification 1 in your final slot. This will reduce her surface detection down to 13.04km with camouflage before Commander Skills or 11.22km with camouflage and Concealment Expert Firepower Primary Battery: Nine 381mm rifles in three turrets in an A-B-Y superfiring configuration. Secondary Battery: Twelve 152mm rifles in four turrets, Twelve dual-purpose 90mm rifles in single turrets. Roma's main battery guns will deceive you. You're going to imagine them as being far more effective than they truly are. The deceptive veil she'll cast over your eyes has three layers; namely gun handling, shell flight time and penetration. They will cloud your vision and make you less aware of two flaws -- one minor but one pronounced -- the latter of which has the potential to greatly sour your enjoyment of this ship, no matter how comfortable her earlier lies may have felt. Beautiful Lie #1: Gun Handling The first beauty-mark you'll note is Roma's turret traverse rate and she may win you over with just this aspect. Her gun handling is simply gorgeous with her turrets rotating at 6º per second (a mere 30 seconds for 180º). This is 50% faster than the 4º per second rotation of ships like Kii, North Carolina and Monarch and a whole degree per second faster than Bismarck and Tirpitz. Thanks to this, laying her guns on target is a breeze and there's no chance of her aim slipping off target even while under heavy manoeuvres. In brawls, Roma can easily track enemies even on close approaches. Her forward fire angles are similarly wonderful. They almost hit the highly sought after (but so seldom realized) 30º-off-the-bow benchmark which defines truly excellent fire arcs. Her X-turret can engage enemies 31º off her forward centerline, allowing Roma to take very aggressive bow-on attack angles and necessitating only the slightest touches of a rudder to unload all nine guns. In short, Roma's gun handling is fun. You will never feel like you're fighting with this ship to bring your weapons to bear. Beautiful Lie #2: Shell Flight Time Roma has one of the fastest muzzle velocities of any tier VIII battleship, making gunnery a delight. What's more, her shells preserve this energy beautifully over distance which in turn leads to lower shell flight times. She can put a shell out to 10km in less than five seconds and one out to 15km in less then eight. This is something which Bismarck, Amagi, Monarch and North Carolina cannot boast. In the time it takes North Carolina to throw a shell out to 17km, Roma can bullseye a target at 20km. Her short lead times greatly cuts into the reaction time enemy ships have to evade your shells, even at range. Beautiful Lie #3: Penetration The high velocity of Roma's shells translates to great kinetic energy. It's the preservation of said energy over distance which makes Roma's penetration values so frightening. She doesn't have the same raw penetration power at point blank ranges of the Japanese 410mm shells. However, at ranges greater than 10km, Roma takes primacy, outstripping every other battleship with her energy retention. She has comparable and better penetration at 20km than Bismarck and Monarch (respectively) have at 15km. Roma is thus a threat at all ranges, capable of stacking damage even against thick hided battleships within reach of her weapons. These three traits will deceive you into thinking she's well set up to land damaging hits against enemy vessels. Her guns can snap onto a target quickly. Her muzzle velocity makes leading said targets easy, allowing you to catch targets before they're able to dodge or angle. Her penetration power all but guarantees that any hits you land will be damaging ones. That's all well and fine in theory, but in practice, problems arise. Roma boasts good fire arcs forward thanks to the excellent sweep of her X-turret. Her rearward arcs are terrible, forcing you to expose far too much of your broadside. Anytime you fire to your rear, you risk taking catastrophic damage. Harsh Truths No one can take away the awesomeness that is Roma's turret traverse rate and shell flight time. Let me be clear: few battleships have as smooth and comfortable a rotation and short lead times of their main battery as this Italian beauty. However, not everything about her guns lends to good performance. Roma's fire angles are the first let down. It's true, her forward fire angles are wonderful. However, rearward, it's a completely different story. Firing from A or B turret while on the retreat will get you sunk in a hurry. This isn't a problem unique to Roma, but few battleships can be punished as readily as Roma when they over angle due to her high water citadel (more on that later). I've found it preferable to use (and abuse) Roma's concealment if forced to retreat. At close range, her high muzzle velocity can also be a detriment. With the standard 0.033s fuse timer, Roma's shells risk blowing clean through more lightly armoured cruisers, especially at short ranges. To test this, I used a Reference-Omaha™ and found that Roma must be at least 13.3km out in order to land citadel hits on a target showing her flat broadside, provided the shells didn't strike water first. North Carolina can manage the same at 5.0km, owing to her lower muzzle velocity and steeper angle of her shell fall. This is a problem that extends beyond Reference-Omaha™ and it can be infuriating to catch a cruiser broadside with perfectly aimed (and dispersing) AP shells only to watch them all over penetrate a Chapayev or Edinburgh. Being unable to overmatch the bows of select cruisers just exacerbates matters. This leads me to stare down the problems Roma has with AP penetration with her 381mm rifles. She cannot overmatch the 27mm extremities found on many heavy cruisers at tier VIII+. It's surprising how much of an issue this causes. A properly angled American or Japanese heavy cruiser can simply bounce her AP shells for days with the appropriate stance. When combined with the fuse problems mentioned above, Roma must juggle different optimal fire ranges when engaging different targets. To penetrate small, lightly armoured vessels like Nurnberg-class, French or Royal Navy light cruisers you need distance. You may have to wait until the target angles slightly before sending your shells off. For tier VIII+ heavy cruisers, you need to catch them broadside or risk seeing your volleys bounce ineffectively. Roma's dispersion with Aiming Systems Modification 1 installed. 180 shells fired, salvo by salvo at 15km, locked onto a stationary Fuso. One of Roma's more pronounced gunnery weaknesses is her poor dispersion. This isn't so much a trait of her 1.8 sigma, but more of her long vertical dispersion axis which you can see here causing tremendous levels of overshooting and undershooting the target by a whole ship length to either side. This is approximately 50% larger than comparable area of battleship Alabama and Massachusetts which cannot mount any dispersion modification. The Big Fail: Dispersion and HE. Roma's most telling flaw with her guns is her dispersion. The Italian battleships of the Regia Marina use German dispersion patterns. In this regard, Roma's gunnery is most akin to Bismarck with one extra gun barrel and 4 seconds longer on her reload. The high velocity of her guns causes many shots to land long or short. Couple this with the wider base horizontal dispersion than any other battleship group in the game, and Roma's German dispersion leads to a lot of wonky shell groupings. It's not like Roma can simply reach for HE and solve her penetration issues either. Roma's HE shells deal a low amount of damage at 5,100 maximum per shell. That's 1,683 per penetrating hit and 852 damage per saturated penetrating hit. These values do not compare well to the 1,200 damage done by one of Roma's over penetrating AP shells. Her fire chance is abysmal at a mere 24%. She doesn't even have an especially large module-damage radius. For all this lackluster performance, she doesn't even get to enjoy the German bonus HE penetration. You largely want to avoid having to resort to these shells unless circumstance deem it necessary. Relying on Roma's HE shells too often will see her damage potential plummet. In summary Roma's gunnery is inconsistent -- more so than many other battleships. While it is easy to bring her guns on target with her fast traverse and anticipate their manoeuvres with her high muzzle velocity, Roma is unreliable at landing solid, damaging hits. This is very frustrating for a ship where the gunnery otherwise feels very comfortable. Her dispersion forces you suffer the whims of RNG. Even when you line up the perfect shot, over penetrations and ricochets will abound and her HE shells are downright anemic. Roma has two secondary gun types and neither is effective. They lack range, with a 5.0km base reach. In addition, one mount does not fire fast enough and the other is too small in caliber. The most dramatic of the pair are her 152mm rifles, mounted in triple gun turrets, two per side flanking B and X turret respectively. They are incredibly slow firing with a horrendous 12.0 second reload and they use AP ammunition. The best thing that could be said about this particular mount is that the muzzle blast is enormous and your opponents may mistake it for you firing your main battery guns in a brawl and expose their sides, thinking themselves safe to fire back. Roma's 90mm guns fire much more quickly with a 4.0s reload. Though they fire HE, their fire chance isn't particularly good. What's more, their small gun caliber makes them ineffective at dealing direct damage enemy ships. Even most destroyers in her matchmaking spread can boast enough armour to foil the penetration value of her HE shells. Short of peppering superstructures, these guns aren't going to do much in the way of direct damage themselves. Taking Inertial Fuse for HE Shells will increase her penetration enough to allow her to directly damage destroyers and some light cruisers with these guns, but that's a heavy investment for questionable gains. In general, it is not worth sinking upgrades, consumables or skills into Roma's secondaries. Conclusions It's hard to call any of Roma's weapon systems "good". Roma's 381mm guns do not enjoy the rate of fire bonus found on Monarch, Tirpitz and Bismarck. Maybe if she had that phenomenal rate of fire or some accuracy tweak, I could shower them with praise with good conscience. However, with a piss-poor HE shell and forgettable secondaries, Roma is reliant upon her main battery AP shells to carry the day. Fortunately, they're sufficient to the task. And maybe that's the best way to define Roma's AP gunnery: It's comfortable and it's sufficient. She won't win any prizes but she'll hold her own. Summary: Roma's gunnery feels so comfortable. Her gunnery performance is spotty. They seem to do really well against battleships (up until they angle) but against cruisers, it's a lot more inconsistent depending on angle, ship type and range. Her secondaries aren't worth specializing into. Evaluation: MEH What it would have needed to be GUD: Roma's dispersion can be very unkind. A buff to her sigma value would alleviate this. An alternative solution would be shaving a second or two off her reload time. With so many misunderstandings about the reload time of the Littorio-class, I suppose we should be glad that Wargaming kept it to a mere 30 seconds. Manoeuvrability Top Speed: 30.0 knotsTurning Radius: 810mRudder Shift: 15.6s Maximum Turn Rate: 4.2º/s Tier 8 Battleship speed, turning radius and rate of turn. Roma doesn't excel in any one area nor does she have any glaring weaknesses. Roma is on the good-side of average for manoevrability for a tier VIII battleship. Her top speed is okay but there are faster ships. Her rate of turn is alright, but she's not exactly agile like the South Dakota-class sisters. Her turning circle isn't terrible, though its certainly not great. Overall, her handling is best compared to Bismarck -- a ship that isn't lacking overall in comparable agility but not a ship anyone would dare say has "good" manoeuvrability. The reason Roma feels so agile is probably due to her gun traverse. At 6º per second, it's rare that you ever need to use your rudder to accelerate bringing your guns to bear onto a new target. It's impossible for this ship to out turn her turrets, so there's little strain on her handling to keep her weapons singing. The best trait about her here is her top speed. 30 knots, while unremarkable at high tiers, is the benchmark I want to see. Anything less is an obvious flaw. Roma has the flexibility to go where she's needed and she's fast enough to make pursuit and escape possible when required. This also allows her to make better use of her concealment to better position herself. Most important of all, Roma's manoeuvrability is sufficient to protect her vulnerable citadel while still maintaining a steady rate of fire with all nine of her guns. Evaluation: MEH What it would have needed to be GUD: Roma already sits on the cusp of being 'GUD', she would just need a little help. An extra knot of speed, getting her turning radius below 800m or increasing her rotation rate by another two tenths of a degree per second would each tip her over the edge to something quite remarkable. Fortunately, you can pull this off yourself with the use of a Sierra Mike signal. Rate of Turn There are several factors which affect how quickly a ship comes about. The most significant are the ship's forward momentum and the size of her turning radius. As a ship slows down, their turning radius changes, but not always for the better. To make things more complicated, different ships also preserve speed better in a turn. When it comes to changing your heading, maintain speed whenever possible. If you want a tighter turning circle, slow down to 3/4 engine power -- but be aware that your ship will not manoeuvre as quickly. Steering Gears Modification 2 reduces Roma's rudder shift time from 15.6s down to 12.5s. However, this does not appreciably affect her turning values. This upgrade can be seen as more of a placebo than a practical bonus. When attempting to measure the gains made, some of the results fell within the margin of error of my own reaction time -- meaning that a good night's sleep or a cup of tea had more effect on the timed rate of turn than whether or not Roma had this module installed. With torpedo and shell reaction times often being less than 8 to 10 seconds, having this module installed will not help you. You would be better served by having a cup of coffee. Thus, I strongly recommend installing Damage Control Modification 2 in your fourth upgrade slot instead. None of the values found on Roma were far from what was expected. Her measured turning radius was slightly higher than that found in port and she bled the usual 25% maximum speed with her rudder hard over. 360º Rotation Rate (Ship Maximums): 1/4 speed (7.3 knots): 1.0º/s rotation, ~1099m turning radius 1/2 speed (13.8 knots): 2.5º/s rotation, ~851m turning radius 3/4 speed (18.6 knots): 3.6º/s rotation, ~800m turning radius 4/4 speed (22.4 knots): 4.2º/s rotation, ~829m turning radius 90º Rotation Rate (Stock): 1/4 speed: 1.0º/s rotation for 90.7s 1/2 speed: 2.3º/s rotation for 39.0s 3/4 speed: 3.2º/s rotation for 28.5s 4/4 speed: 3.6/s rotation for 25.0s 90º Rotation Rate (Steering Gears Modification 2) 1/4 speed: 1.0/s rotation for 90.6s 1/2 speed: 2.4º/s rotation for 38.4s 3/4 speed: 3.3º/s rotation for 27.4s 4/4 speed: 3.7º/s rotation for 24.2s Roma sits upon the cusp of greatness where her agility is concerned, but she falls short. You're not likely to notice though -- you'll be too enamored with how well her turrets traverse. DurabilityHit Points: 65,400 Maximum Citadel Protection: 375mm + 40mm Min Bow & Deck Armour: 32mmTorpedo Damage Reduction: 38% Let's start with the bad news: Roma wears a really short skirt. While I appreciate that she wants to show off her lines, her citadel is left exposed over the water's surface by a not-insignificant margin. The exact height of her citadel is easy to see: it's directly behind her 375mm armoured belt. Veterans of the American battleship line that played the ships before the citadels were lowered in early 2017 will remember well what this entails. Roma can and will suddenly explode in a horrendous space-kablooie when she's caught broadside. There's nothing you can do about it but [edited]. There's another piece of not-so-great news. Her A-Turret barbette also seems to be part of the citadel, comprising a rounded 210mm bulge to her transverse bulkhead. This gives shells that might have skipped over a flat surface another bite at the apple if they catch this rounded surface. It's just another little quibble to sour Roma's armour protection. Alright, with that out of the way, let's talk about the good stuff: Her main deck is 45mm thick. This is proof against 152mm HE spam. Hooray! She has a 130mm extended forward armoured belt. When she angles, can foil even 460mm shells. Rejoice! Her upper hull is 70mm thick. This is proof against HE from 420mm or smaller unless it's British BB or German BB & CA thrown. This will also provide you with some very comfortable bounces when you angle just right. Her torpedo damage reduction is pretty darned good, so to speak. At tier VIII, torpedo defenses are either amazaballs (Amagi, South Dakota sisters) or they suck moose balls (everyone else). Roma's in the good half of the dichotomy. Her deck armour profile is a bit of a mixed blessing when it comes to armour piercing bombs, however. In testing, American AP bombs just didn't seem to be able to stack damage quickly. Without heals, it took over 20 bomb hits to sink her from American planes. Graf Zeppelin's (admittedly still in testing) bombs weren't automatic world-enders, but she could reliably sink Roma with two squadrons. On the whole, if it weren't for Roma's citadel situation, she'd have a great armour profile. As it is, it's only okay. Roma face tanks like a boss, particularly at medium ranges (between 8km and 14km) but when things go wrong, she comes apart in a hurry. Roma's armour, including details of her citadel. Evaluation: MEH What it would have needed to be GUD: Lower her bloody citadel. Anti-Aircraft Defense AA Battery Calibers: 90mm / 37mm / 20mmAA Umbrella Ranges: 4.0km / 3.5km / 2.0kmAA DPS per Aura: 114 / 128.4 / 54.4 The graph on the left shows the raw AA values per aura range of the AA mounts of tier 8 Battleships. The graph on the right applies a formula {AA DPS x ( Range - 1.0km )} to calculate the overall effectiveness of the ship's AA power. This weights longer ranged weapons as being much more valuable as planes will linger within their effect longer. Weapons with less than a 2km range are only really effective if the enemy aircraft carrier parks planes on top of you. If there's one good thing you could say about Roma's anti-aircraft firepower, it would be that it's at least better than that found on Tirpitz. Roma's AA rating sits squarely in between the German premium and Amagi, and this isn't a good place to be. Worse, it's not like Roma's anti-aircraft guns are a straight up improvement over the performance of the German premium -- she just has more of them. Roma's large caliber, 90mm guns are hands down inferior to the 105s that Tirpitz uses. They have 500m less range and they do less DPS over all, which makes the effective AA defense worse were it not for Roma's 37mm autocannons and Tirpitz's near lack of medium caliber guns. It takes a rather heavy investment to get Roma's anti-aircraft firepower anywhere near effective in terms of range, and it's downright impossible to make it effective in terms of damage done. With Advanced Fire Training and AA Guns Modification 2, you can increase the reach fo her 90mm guns from 4.0km up to 5.76km but they'll never have the punch to make anything but a stock tier VI aircraft carrier balk. Taking a Float Plane Fighter can add a very helpful disruption effect to an incoming wave which can save your ship, but it's so short lived and difficult to rely upon. Roma doesn't have the agility to easily dodge air dropped torpedoes, nor does she have the armour profile to spare her the nightmare of being one-shot by German AP dive bombers. Roma, when isolated from allies, is easy prey for an enemy aircraft carrier and she must be played with this weakness in mind. Evaluation: GARBAGE What it would have needed to be MEH: Roma really needs more range. The 4.0km reach of her large caliber, dual purpose guns does her no favours. Alternatively, it would take a huge DPS boost to make her AA power competitive which is a much more significant change. None of Roma's AA mounts are especially durable. Even her dual purpose AA guns can only boast 800hp with her 37mm and 20mm guns having only 200. A few HE hits will strip her of most of her AA power. Vision Control Base Surface Detection Range: 14.94km Air Detection Range: 13.35km Minimum Surface Detection Range: 11.22km Detection Range when Firing from Smoke: 13.68km Main Battery Firing Range: 18.12km Detection Consumables: Spotter Aircraft / Float Plane Fighter Short of the famous and historical HMS Monarch, Roma is the stealthiest battleship within her matchmaking spread. What's perhaps more frightening is that she's stealthier than almost half the cruisers she faces, even when they're rigged for full concealment. Tier VI and VII cruisers are especially vulnerable with 11 out of 24 ships unable to hide from Roma and another 7 unable to hide if they don't have a full concealment build. When top tier, especially against inexperienced commanders, Roma becomes truly a monster. Without spotting aircraft or a destroyer screen, she can move about the battlefield at will, confident she can outfight anything that detects her. Let me stress this: Without aircraft or destroyers, Roma is quite capable of being the stealthiest ship on the playing field. Unlike the famous and historical HMS Monarch, Roma has the speed to better exploit this concealment. And it's here, with this combination of speed and concealment where Roma becomes a truly frightening vessel. Novice players take note: these are traits that expert players exploit to win matches. The longer a match goes on, the more powerful this advantage of speed and stealth becomes. It gives Roma time to heal, to flank, to secure objectives or escape. She can dictate engagement distances, abuse cover and surprise enemies. This is the game changer for this ship. This is what glosses over all of her other mediocre ratings and propels her towards excellence. Now this all said, this is a very difficult advantage to exploit properly and it can be outright negated by aircraft (especially given Roma's poor AA rating) and destroyers. Proper use of her aircraft consumable (with the skills to support it) will help her control vision and make lurking around islands less dangerous. But, it's knowing when to keep her guns singing and when it's best to hold your fire that really defines Roma's use and abuse of her concealment. Evaluation: GUD What it would have needed to be BEST : Monarch has a smaller surface detection range and similar consumable options. The alternative to making her sneakier than Monarch would have been to provide her with some detection consumable like Hydroacoustic Search or Surveillance Radar which is bloody unlikely. I think we can all be happy that Roma's concealment is as amazing as it is. Nursing the Twins For Roma, a survivability build is best after grabbing your concealment skills. Start with Priority Target unless you've seen the oracle and you already know the future. Then you can go for skills like Direction Center for Catapult Aircraft instead for your first choice. Next up, we want Adrenaline Rush to increase her sluggish rate of fire. After that, you have your choice of Basics of Survivability or Superintendent depending on how much you hate fire damage. Finally, grab Concealment Expert to level up Roma to her final form. For your next 9pts, I strongly recommend Fire Prevention, whichever tier 3 skill you skipped and your choice of Expert Marksman (cause why not?), Jack of All Trades or High Alert. Now get out there and murder your brother. Tier for tier, Giulio Cesare is the better of the two Italian Battleships. However, the Makoto Kobayashi: Roma camouflage combined with Roma's higher tier will make her the better potential earner. Final Evaluation Mouse's Summary: Concealment and comfort define this ship. I stress that Roma's high water citadel will be a deal breaker for some. As cool as Roma's secondaries and AA batteries look, they're pretty darned useless. Roma's scorecard looks a little better than my first evaluation once you peel back the layers and take a closer look. Her great concealment might functionally be the best within her Matchmaking spread thanks to her speed. Similarly, her agility is also reasonably good, just not quite enough to make her remarkable. This synergy between speed, gun handling and concealment has all the hallmarks of a competitive ship. Her gunnery and durability are the let downs, though. Her weapons are inconsistent -- prone to bouts of greatness and then some frustrating droughts of non-performance until you figure out her penetration. Knowing what ships you can and cannot handle at which ranges mitigates some of this lack, but only just. Contrarily, her secondaries, like her AA guns are garbage no matter what you do.. Then there's that citadel of hers -- that fly in the ointment that will preclude her from ever being the darling of the competitive scene. In Randoms, with proper positioning, it's not really a big deal, but when it lets you down, it lets you down hard. Roma is so much fun to drive it's hard to dismiss her out of hand, even despite these setbacks. My own experiences in Roma were decidedly mixed. It took me a while to figure her out. Once I accepted I was throwing around what amounted to a squishy, nine-gun Bismarck with no secondaries, things got a little better. To say my performance in her was inconsistent would be an understatement. The number of losses I suffered during the latter half of play testing wasn't fun, however this was broken up by some ridiculously high performing games. Boiled down, Roma is a medium-range brawler. Her gun accuracy and armour profile both excel if she can hold this range -- just on the cusp of her detection radius, and hammer the enemy over and over and over again. Ideally you want to sneak to a vantage where your opponents can't help but give up their side to either you or their allies. If they choose to face you, tank them and do the best you can to hurt them back -- it's not going to be easy with those 381mm guns. If they choose to face your allies, tear them a new one until they smarten up and fall back. The final question is if this is a role that's asked for in the current meta. She's not a brawler like Bismarck or Tirpitz, a DPM juggernaut like Amagi, and she doesn't werf the flammen like the famous, historical battleship Monarch. Roma encroaches upon the flanking meta espoused by the American battleships. She's certainly faster than North Carolina or the South Dakota sisters. She's also more stealthy. However, she lacks the AA power to afford her autonomy when enemy aircraft carriers are in play. -- not that they're out there that often. It's still difficult to call just based on that. Things change when you look at her tiering. Top tier, she's an absolute monster. She would easily hold my pick for one of the best battleships for clubbing lower tiered vessels and this in of itself should say something. That comfort and control pays dividends and her armour maximizes in these encounters where shell penetration may not be enough to seriously threaten Roma's raised citadel. She uptiers alright against tier IX ships, but like all tier VIIIs, she really struggles in tier X matches. If I could guarantee she would never see tier X games, I could slap an "OVERPOWERED" label on her and be done with it, but no such luck. As it is, I'm inclined to say Roma has earned her laurels. Would I Recommend? Some caveats must be exercised here. The Italian Regia Marina is solely comprised of premium ships at the moment. Between the battleships Roma and Giulio Cesare there are also the light cruisers Duca d'Aosta and the upcoming Duca degli Abruzzi. If you had to choose one and only one, Giulio Cesare is still the front runner performance wise, even at tier V. Roma does not displace her. PVE Battles How well does the ship maintain profitability in Co-Op modes and how does she fare against bots? We have no tier VIII scenarios (yet), but Roma's a decent ship to take against bots. Her AP shells struggle a little against cruisers at the point blank ranges which so often result. Her running costs are 35,438 credits including the 10% discount provided by her camouflage (this drops to 19,688 credits with Makoto Kobayashi: Roma camo) while you can make around 100k on a decent win. Skip those premium consumables. Random Battle Grinding:This includes training captains, collecting free experience, earning credits and collecting signal flags from achievements. She's a tier VIII premium, so economy wise, she'll do you just fine. The increased earnings will also make her a wonderful trainer. Note if you have the Makoto Kobayashi: Roma camouflage, her earning dividends just got that much better. For Competitive Gaming:Competitive Gaming includes Ranked Battles and other skill-based tournaments. This also includes stat-padding. I have to give her a firm pass here. Between her high water citadel, 381mm teething issues and poor AA power, she's not ideal. For Collectors:If you enjoy ship history or possessing rare ships, this section is for you. What are you, new? It's not only the first Littorio-class battleships it's Roma. Even as a port queen, she's gorgeous to look at. For Fun Factor: Bottom line: Is the ship fun to play? Hells to the yeah. Roma doesn't always behave, but when she does... In Closing That about wraps it up for Roma -- arguably the most anticipated premium of 2017. Hey, stop looking at your calendar! She's here and she's not terrible; that's a win. I keep a list of premium ships that I enjoy playing; that I reach for whenever I just want to play World of Warships and unplug my brain from all of this analytical nonsense. These are ships that I play simply for the love of the game. I think it's high praise when a new premium ousts one of the old guard and muscles in on this list. Roma isn't there yet -- we're fighting, truth be told. She's got a long ways to go if she thinks she can earn her keep. I'm very happy with the balanced state of Roma. I'm very happy to have this review done. The next review coming up will be Musashi, the tier IX Japanese battleship that's causing all kinds of controversy. Roma and Musashi both came off of the content-embargo on the same date, but I had no warning about the latter. You can expect this next review in about a week's time with an undue level of snark laced throughout. A very special thank you to Lert for his continued editing efforts and to my patrons on Patreon. With as much time and energy I devote to these reviews, I cannot afford to do it alone anymore. Your continued support means the world to me and allows me to keep my head down and working hard with less worry. Thank you for reading and for all of your feedback, criticism and fun gifs too! My current ten favourite ships. Top Row: Fujin, Atlanta, De Grasse, Prinz Eugen, Atago. Bottom Row: Scharnhorst, Nelson, Harekaze, König Albert, Warspite. Will Roma or Musashi earn a spot? Tune in next week! iChase put together a wonderful little history piece for those who want more Roma in your Roma review!
  3. Seems like that would be useful for Roma or if I’m to be honest any of the continental battleships.
  4. Her guns are quite good, I must say. The dispersion isn't great, but she'll wreck targets if given the chance with that high shell velocity. I even got a citadel against an angled Kronshtadt because of that. I'll probably never like her as much as I did the NC, but she seems decent enough.
  5. survivingscout

    Roma Balance Discussion

    Does anyone else feel that the Roma is lacking? I have most of (if not all) the available t8 battleships at the moment. (Massachusetts, Roma, Kii, Alabama, Tirpitz, and Gascogne) The Roma in particular feels extremely inaccurate. The shotgun feeling is even worse than the germans, with no hydro or worthwhile secondaries to account for. The Roma has a great 227m maximum dispersion with the aiming systems mod 1 installed, and yet, every shot is like rolling the dice. On top of this, Roma's shells have a very high chance to overpen, even on broadside battleships like Amagis. Either one of these issues would keep Roma from being overpowered as a gun platform, but together, they make the ship unpleasant to play due to the high inconsistency of the guns. Every other t8 battleship feels more accurate, even the Tirpitz with its German dispersion. Can we please try to improve the Roma's main battery accuracy to make it competitive with other t8 premium battleships? Leaving the high chance to overpen as a national flavor would be a fair compromise in my opinion. Link to a few of many posts on Reddit on this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/90lxws/roma_needs_a_rework https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/7ryag6/roma_is_a_frustrating_experience https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/8wxvm2/massachusetts_vs_roma_main_battery_guns
  6. TheDgamesD

    The Roma Problem

    This is a forum post to go in-depth about every single issue I have found with the Roma as it stands currently in-game, be it either historical discrepancies, or just all around major flaws with her in her current state, that absolutely require some attention on Wargaming's end. Let's get the easiest thing out of the way first: Her camouflage. As it currently stands in-game it's obvious they based her in-game permanent camouflage on her historical one, and good on them for almost getting it right... Almost. You see they practically nailed it on it's head when it comes to her camouflage and I'm happy to say that the only thing they screwed up.. was her primary turrets. You see, in-game Roma's turrets all have the same design camouflage-wise, when historically this was not the case. In-game all her turrets mimick that of her historical Foremost turret, when it really should have each turrets individual "dazzle" design. For me it wouldn't be as much of an issue if the design's of the turrets camouflage historically weren't so drastically/noticeably different: what I'm saying is for wargaming to fix and correct this error on Roma. Now we move from the Aesthetics into the area of gameplay-vs-history. In-game Roma has by far the worst dispersion/accuracy of every battleship at her tier km for km. As it might not seem that bad at a glance when compared to her counterparts: For example here are two of the most inaccurate tech-tree battleships at tier VIII; Richelieu with a Max Firing Range of 25.27 km. and a Maximum Dispersion of 313 m. and 1.8 Sigma, and Bismarck with a Maximum Firing Range of 21.21 km. and a Maximum Dispersion of 273 m and a Sigma of 1.8, And Roma has a Maximum Firing Range of 18.12 km. and a Maximum Dispersion of 243 m. and a Sigma of 1.8. Although there may be no immediate issue with these numbers keep in mind Maximum dispersion is dispersion at the very extreme/limit of your firing range, and doesn't give us a clear comparison on a Km-by-Km scale. To do so I have to apply some easy math, which results in: Roma has a 13.4105960265m/km dispersion ratio Bismarck has a 12.8712871287m/km dispersion ratio Richelieu has a 12.3862287297m/km dispersion ratio North Carolina has a 11.6509028375m/km dispersion ratio Amagi has a 11.4185110664m/km dispersion ratio Now with this information, we can not only more easily and clearly see the actual difference in dispersion between ships, but in a way it can be easily measured and compared on equal terms. being able to multiply the ratio by any given distance to comparatively see how their max dispersions would compare. And with this in mind its clear to see Roma has the worst dispersion at her tier Roma's maximum range makes no sense, given the historical context that her guns (the Cannone da 381/50 Ansaldo M1934 ) had the longest range of any rifles ever mounted on a battleship, the 884.8 kg AP rounds able to reach 42.8 km at the maximum elevation of +36º.This out-ranged the 46cm/45 Type 94 of the Yamato-class by almost 800 meters, and the 16"/50 Mk.7 of the Iowa-class by over 4000 meters. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_381/50_Ansaldo_M1934) And as such giving the battleship that actually held the record for having the longest ranged guns on a battleship the shortest range in her tier, is not only insulting, but a slap in the face of her legacy and title, and makes absolutely zero sense. Of course, I'm not asking them to make it her historical 42.8km range, but something more reflective of her title instead of her nonsensical range as it stands currently in-game. This wouldn't be so bad if they didn't give you the drawback of bad dispersion because of "the high velocity", which the Littorio Class' case wouldn't really make sense historically because it actually wasn't the high velocity of the guns that were the cause of the class sometimes suffering from bad accuracy, rather it was figured out during postwar trials of remaining ammunition for Littorio and Vittorio Veneto's Cannone da 381/50 Ansaldo M1934 guns, they checked for compliance with design specifications on mass, dimensions, and assembly and through these inspections it was found an overwhelming majority failed inspection in some form or another. As such the glaring disparity of the gun's performance during Vittorio Veneto suffered from wildly misplaced groups during her Guado encounter on the 28th March 1941, and at 24,000 yards only scored one near miss against RN cruisers, during 25 minutes of firing, when compared to Littorio's Involvement during the first battle of Sirte Gulf, in which using only one of her primary turrets, starting from a range of 35,000 yards (Source; Robert O. Dulin & William H. Garzke: Battleships Axis and Neutral Battleships of WWII, page 397) Littorio using her fire control director system was able to determine the destroyers range and speed, train the main battery on target, and deliver accurate salvos against the British Destroyers causing splinter damage to them, and it wasn't just a lucky opening shot like with Bismarck vs Hood, As it was repeated on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th salvos fired whilst being over 35,000 yards away, delivering so much accurate fire at the british destroyers, who were, mind you, traveling at over 30knts, with a shell travel time to target of aprx 65 seconds. Forcing the British to withdraw. In her current state, the properties of her gun's are that of an infuriating paradoxical situation, I.E. She has very high velocity that would make her great for reaching out and hitting targets at 20km quickly, and having more than enough penetration to hurt them at that range effectively due to the relatively low arcs of the shells when compared to her counterparts, and the very high penetration values thanks again to her high velocity. Yet don't be fooled as you can't ever make proper use of that high velocity due to her atrocious dispersion ratio, sigma nerfed from 1.9 in testing to 1.8 (WG please buff it back to 1.9, It would make her almost tolerable to play.), and the shortest maximum firing range at her tier, Which don't be fooled, the spotter plane wont fix, as if you barely manage to land 2/9 hits at 15km good luck hitting anything at 20-23km. So ok, you just gotta get in close and use her as a brawler then right? WRONG. Her penetration values are so ludicrously high that at close range/sub-10km you'll constantly either overpen every cruiser you look at (besides RN.. most of the time) due to the shell entering in with such high velocity it just punches straight through the ships hull, sure you'll do much better against more armored enemy battleships but even then, I've had matches where at distances of less than 10km, firing at a fully broadside Grosser Kurfurst, and had every single shell miss, just falling everywhere around the giant battleship except where I aimed. That's without the fact your like a Yamato in that you can't get close to your targets like a brawler since your side armor is so vulnerable to getting citadeled, not just at close range, but any range, which shouldn't be the case as the almost dual-turtleback internal splinter plates are completely removed, and all of the other staggered armor placements, that was designed to lessen the shells penetration as it penetrated a layer to the next (aka Decapping plates) are just mashed together into two values; the belt armor, and citadel armor, which ruins the entire point of her simplistically-elaborate armor layout. Which absolutely needs to be corrected asap. Sure you can stay bow-in and it lessens the pain of her armor, as her bow is quite well-angled, and has increased armor on the bow "cheeks" (referencing the same location as Yamato's weakpoint that allows other Yamato's to citadel them when angled) which I won't deny is nice, but far from enough to make up for everything else. Sure she has very fast turning turrets unlike that of Yamato whom I've been comparing Roma to, and Although it makes her comfortable to change targets quickly at close range, you shouldn't ever be making use of it that way because of her atrocious side armor in-game. Which has left her feeling as though she has a mashup of drastically opposing playstyles, yet inheriting all the negative sides of both, and those same negatives prevent her from properly performing any of those playstyles without feeling so heavily crippled, and as if your constantly being punished: You have high-velocity shells, but not the range to go with it, (not to mention insultingly short range for you know, mounting the guns that held the record for the longest ranged guns ever mounted on a battleship.) You have short maximum range, which forces you to get close to your enemies and usually being forced to resort to brawling, but you don't have your historical double-turtleback/Staggered armor scheme to be able to withstand some hits like other brawling battleships like Bismarck and Tirpitz. Instead, if anything gets your side that isn't a destroyer you can practically kiss half your health goodbye, if not all of it since your citadel is so easy to hit. Since you have 381mm guns you can't overmatch some/most heavy cruisers bows like that of Des Moines, or any other 27mm+ armored bow ship, unlike most of your counterparts, yet you don't get the Improved reload time like that of Bismarck or Tirpitz to compensate for having smaller caliber guns (Richelieu makes sense as she has all 8 of her guns situated in two turrets in her bow). While you may jump to conclude this is due to her having triple turrets, that doesn't make sense, as Roma had a very elaborate and efficient loading system, that even American naval staff after the war regarded as more advanced than the loading system used aboard the Iowa class. I'm not asking for her to have Bismarck/Tirpitz's 26 second reload but more like Dunkerque and Monarch's 28 second reload. Roma's Loading system (I apologize as the audio is in Italian but the visual 3D breakdown of her entire system is more than enough to comprehend whats going on.) Also, I find the fact she carries High Explosive rounds for her main battery in-game quite puzzling, as she never once carried nor used any historically, nor did any ship that used the Cannone da 381/50 Ansaldo M1934 ever carry or use any HE. While and although an HE shell was developed and tested it was thought that the Nose Fuse was too sensitive, and as such was never used. Rather they carried two separate types of Armor Piercing: AP rounds called "Palla" or "Proiettile Perforante", and Semi-AP rounds called "Granata Perforante". What I'd like, and doubt I'd see, is the removal of HE from Roma and it being replaced with a second AP shot similar to that of the British Light Cruisers. Details on the shells themselves (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_381/50_Ansaldo_M1934): "AP: The primary armor-piercing round, in Italian these rounds were known as "Palla" (literally; "ball") or "Proiettile Perforante" (Piercing Shot"). They were heavy for their caliber at 884.8 kg (1,951 lb), with a small bursting charge of only 10.16 kg TNT (1.15%). The shells were made of nickel-chrome steel, with a steel cap and a Silumin ballistic cap. The total length was 170 cm (67 in), or 4.46 calibers. SAP: A semi armor-piercing round named "Granata Perforante" ("Piercing Shell") designed for use against lightly armored targets such as cruisers and destroyers. They were lighter than the AP shells with a greater bursting charge (3.57%) and had a significantly lesser penetrative ability. During the war, they showed an unfortunate tendency to fuse later than they had been set to, which lead to over-penetrations of their targets. HE: High explosive shells, these weighed only 774 kilograms (1,710 lb). Although designed and tested for these guns, they were never actually used aboard any of the ships that mounted these guns. The nose fuse was thought to be too sensitive." "The 381 mm guns had a maximum elevation of 35 degrees, which allowed them to engage targets out to 42,260 m (138,650 ft). The guns fired a 885 kg (1,951 lb) armor-piercing (AP) shell at a muzzle velocity of 870 meters per second (2,900 ft/s). However, this was reduced to 850 m/s (2,800 ft/s) in order to reduce dispersion and increase barrel service life. The 824.3 kg (1,817 lb) semi-armor piercing shells formed the secondary ammunition of the 381mm/50, which had a 29.51 kg (65.1 lb) bursting charge. Although high explosive shells weighing 774 kg (1,706 lb) were developed for the 381 mm guns, they never saw service on the Littorio-class. Their ammunition load was 495 AP shells and 171 SAP shells, with 4,320 propellant charges (666 rounds total, or 74 rounds per gun split 55 AP & 19 SAP)" Seriously after playing 192 battles as of writing this, (check for yourself here: https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1006533382,TheDgamesD/) I can no longer ignore these glaring issues, Wargaming needs to address them, and severely fix this ship. I don't want to trade her in, I don't want a refund. I want a ship worthy of the title Roma, for her to actually be good, and unreliant on such temperamental and infuriating luck constantly.
  7. Hi, i've notice that on che middle of broadside of Roma there are 2 guns on each side that is not counted nor in the AA nor in secondary guns, so i'm corius about why they are not counted (they are not relevant i know but… you know, everything helps in Roma), TY all for the answers
  8. Hello all, Just a short post for this topic. I honestly hadn't ever stopped to look, which is kinda embarrassing given I had a whole long thread about Roma's inaccuracies when Roma came out, but I guess I never thought to look. In-game, Roma's aft transverse bulkhead is 210mm (8.27"). Armor Viewer in-game: Armor Viewer via GM3D.com: So, why does this matter? Well, this is 70mm too thin; as the aft transverse bulkhead of the Littorio-class, including Roma, was actually 280mm thick (11.0"). In-game, against a gun like Scharnhorst's 11.1" guns, for example, that extends the range of penetration by almost 10 km! So, it's not exactly a minor difference. Of course, nothing I say in regards to this matters without proof, so here's some from the most definitive book on the class: From: The Littorio Class: Italy's Last and Largest Battleships, Erminio Bagnasco. Page 58. I believe this is also in agreement with Conway's, as well as Garzke & Duilin, although I don't have access to them myself, so if anyone would like to confirm that from those books it would be welcome. The text from the page itself: @Pigeon_of_War @Radar_X @Sub_Octavian
  9. I see there are special missions for ranked battles on the Massachusetts, Roma, Kidd, and Prinz Eugen. However, being all T8 ships I'm wondering if you can take full advantage of these missions once you move to T10 ranked. Can anyone who have purchased one of these packages chime in on if the mission can be completed outside of T8 ranked (such as in any game mode)? Thanks!
  10. Companeros y Campaneras! What are the odds of the Roma going on sale before the sale ends on the 27th? I haven't really followed the sale closely. Based on the specials to date is it likely that Roma will be offered at a sale price?
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