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  1. I've seen many proposals for a Pan-EU super-cruiser line, but I've never actually seen a proposal for a Pan-EU CL line that actually convinced me, so I've decided to fix that problem myself. These cruisers will be very squishy, but have great firepower and range for their tier, as well as heals starting early on. On The Topic of Gimmicks: You know, I kind of want this to be just a line that plays it straight: no wacky gimmicks like a reload booster or anything. But seeing as WarGaming has gotten crazier and crazier with their gimmicks lately, I don't think we can have that. The first gimmick that comes to mind is Radar starting from Tier VIII, where the line loses the torpedoes, which I guess fits in with the line, but the game is already so [edited]oversaturated with radar that really I don't think it would be a good idea. But then what else could be added to make the ship line stand out? Give it the Austin treatment? Maybe. But I still want WarGaming to consider just adding a line with no particular gimmick every once in a while, and I think this line is a good candidate for that. Line Overview: Tier II: SMS Novara (1913) Tier III: Spanish cruiser Navarra (1923) Tier IV: HNLMS De Ruyter Tier V: Spanish Cruiser Miguel de Cervantes Tier VI: Greek Cruiser Elli II PREMIUM: Spanish Cruiser Mendez Nunes Tier VII: HSwMS Tre Kronor Tier VIII: Dutch Cruiser De Zeven Provincien Tier IX: Plan F Tier X: Dutch Cruiser Eendracht (Modernized)Tier II: SMS Novara Entered Service: 1915 Survivability: HP: 17900 Armor: Belt: 60 mm. Deck: 20 mm. Turrets: 40 mm faces; 8 mm sides. Conning Tower: 50 mm. Nose: 6 mm. The Novara is decently tanky for a Tier II cruiser. Now, I’m not sure if she has the same armored deck slopes that make other same-tier cruisers so hard to citadel, but if she doesn’t, it will bring her survivability down a bit. Maneuverability: Speed: 27 knots. Rudder shift: 5.4 s. Turning Circle: 450 m. Again, about average maneuverability for a Tier II cruiser. Let’s move on. Concealment: By Sea: 8.5 km Main Armament: 9 x 1 Škoda 10 cm K10 Rate of Fire: 10 shots/min. Reload: 6 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 22.5 seconds. Base Firing Range: 9.5 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 1400 Fire Chance: 6% HE Shell Penetration: 16 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 1700 Shell Velocity: 880 m/s. The guns on Novara are the smallest in her tier, but fire the fastest, setting the player up for the higher tier Cruisers in terms of ROF. Anti-Air: 1 × 7 cm (2.8 in) AA gun 1 × 47 mm (1.9 in) SFK L/44 gun I don’t think a Tier II cruiser should ever be seeing CVs, but since fail-divs exist, the AA here should provide for a nice light show for the CV player to enjoy before dropping the ship. Consumables: Standard DCP That’s it. What? Did you expect DFAA? Tier III: Spanish cruiser Navarra (1936) Survivability: Hull A: 20200 Hull B: 21800 Again, about average for a Tier III cruiser. Armor: Belt: 76 mm. Upper Belt: 13 mm. Deck: 16 mm. Citadel Deck: 76 mm. Turrets: nope. Conning Tower: 152 mm. Nose: 6 mm. This is actually a pretty good armor scheme for a T3 CL. The cruiser basically has an icebreaker; the armor belt stretching all the way to the bow. A 6-inch conning tower seems pretty overkill for crew protection, but whatever. Maneuverability: Speed: 25 knots. Rudder shift: 4.4 s. Turning Circle: 410 m. Don’t get me wrong, 25 knots is on the slower side of most cruisers at this tier, but the good turning circle, rudder shift, and the small size of maps at the Tier II-IV range make it not as big of a deal. It’s also faster than Katori, for whatever that’s worth. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 11.4 km. Detectability by Air: 6.37 km. The phallic-looking superstructure doesn’t do the Navarra very many favors in terms of concealment. It looks funny though. Main Armament: 6 x 1 152 mm/50 Vickers Mk W Rate of Fire: 6 shots/min. Reload: 10 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 30 seconds. Base Firing Range: 13.9 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 2100 Fire Chance: 8% HE Shell Penetration: 25 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3000 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. Secondary Armament: 4 x 1 88 mm/42 SK C/30 Rate of Fire: 15 shots/min. Reload: 4.0 s. Maximum HE Shell Damage: 1000 Fire Chance: 4% Range: 3.2 km. Shell Velocity: 950 m/s. What Navarra gives up in concealment it gains in firing range: the rangefinder is situated at the very top of the tall superstructure, putting the Navarra’s gun range at the very top of all Tier III cruisers. Anti-Air: 4 x 1 88 mm/42 SK C/30 4 x 1 - 20 mm/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini M1939 Base DPS: 45/27 Range: 4.6/2.0 km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 1 Damage By Shell Explosions: 1050 At least it has range? Consumables: Standard DCP Tier IV: HNLMS De Ruyter Entered Service: 1936 Survivability: Hull A: 21,600 Hull B: 24,400 Armor: Belt: 50 mm. Upper Belt: 16 mm. Deck: 20 mm. Citadel Deck: 30 mm. Bulkheads: 30 mm. Turrets: 100 mm Faces, 30 mm Sides. Conning Tower: 30 mm. Nose: 13 mm. The De Ruyter is an incredibly squishy cruiser, which means she fits right in among the other Tier IV Cruisers. It is surprisingly enough a straight downgrade from the Tier III though. Maneuverability: Speed: 32 knots. Rudder shift: 6.7 s. Turning Circle: 580 m. A huge upgrade from the Tier III in terms of speed. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 13.1 km. Detectability by Air: 5.3 km. Just like the ship before, her tall main mast and towers really don’t do her much good in terms of concealment. Main Armament: 3 x 2 150 mm/50 (5.9") Wilton-Fijenoord MK9 1 x 1 150 mm/50 Wilton-Fijenoord MK10 Rate of Fire: 6 shots/min. Reload: 10 s. 180 Degree Turn Time: 22.5 s. Base Firing Range: 15.4 km. Maximum HE Shell Damage: 2100 Fire Chance: 9% HE Shell Penetration: 25 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3000 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. One big advantage the De Ruyter has over most of its Tier IV contemporaries is the relatively normal armament layout with superfiring turrets; allowing her to bring all of her guns to bear on a target. Just like the Navarra, the De Ruyter gives up concealment for range: 15.4 km; the highest in its tier, a recurring theme within this line. Anti-Air: 5 x 2 Bofors 40 mm/60 4 x 2 12.7 mm/90 Browning Base DPS: 112/39 Range: 3.5/1.5 km. Hit Probability: 90% Less range and no flak, but higher raw DPS. A good tradeoff. I think. Consumables: Standard DCP 4 x Fighters 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3 km. Detection of Ships: 4 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. The addition of Fighter aircraft will provide for extra protection from CVs. Tier V: Spanish Cruiser Miguel de Cervantes Entered Service: 1930 Note: Miguel de Cervantes wasn’t the lead ship of her class, but I chose to represent her class in the line because of her more conventional turret layout and her torpedo tube count which is more in line with the tech tree. Survivability: Hull A: 24900 Hull B: 28,000 Armor: Exactly the same as the Emerald’s. Maneuverability: Speed: 33 knots. Rudder shift: 7.6 s. Turning Circle: 720 m. Again, almost the exact same as Emerald’s, although Emerald has the improved acceleration dynamics. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 11.6 km. Detectability by Air: 4.8 km. Main Armament: 4 x 2 152 mm/50 Vickers Mk 2 Rate of Fire: 7 shots/min. Reload: 8.5 s. 180 Degree Turn Time: 22.5 s. Base Firing Range: 15.3 km. Maximum HE Shell Damage: 2100 Fire Chance: 9% HE Shell Penetration: 25 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3200 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. Not only does she have more barrels than Emerald, she can also bring all of them to bear to fire because of her conventionally arranged superfiring turrets. She does, however, fire slightly slower than the Emerald. Torpedo Armament: 2 x 3 533 mm TT. Reload: 80 s. Maximum Damage: 11967 Speed: 59 knots Range: 6.0 km. I can’t actually find any info on what torpedoes the Spanish used for these ships, so I just took them from Emerald. Anti-Air: 8 x 2 - 37/83 SK C/30 5 x 4 - 20 mm/65 C/38 Base DPS: 49/112 Range: 3.5/2.0 km. Hit Probability: 90% The AA mounts on the Miguel are more numerous, and the short range aura is much more potent, but the German 37 mm gun is just such a poor AA mount that even though it has 6 more barrels the mid-range DPS drops by more than half. Consumables: Standard DCP 4 x Fighters 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3 km. Detection of Ships: 4 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. 3 x Repair Party Action Time: 28 s. HP per Second: +0.5% Reload Time: 80 s. Similar to the RN Cruisers, the Pan-EU cruisers will get a heal starting from Tier V. Tier VI: Greek Cruiser Elli II Survivability: Hull A: 25600 HP Hull B: 29500 HP. Armor: Functionally the same as the Duca D’Aosta. Look, it’s a Duca with a heal and a hydro. The torps will only be 8 km, and the reload will be 8 seconds instead of 7.5, so this ship doesn't powercreep Duca out of existence. Lets move on. Tier VII: HSwMS Tre Kronor Entered Service: 1947 Survivability: Hull A: 26800 Hull B: 30700 Artificially massaged by a few thousand for balance’s sake. Armor: Belt: 70 mm. Upper Belt: 16 mm. Deck: 25 mm. Citadel Deck: 30 mm. Bulkheads: 30 mm. Turrets: 127 mm Faces, 50 mm Sides. Conning Tower: 25 mm. Nose: 16 mm. Tre Kronor’s armor is functionally the same as Smolensk’s armor while having around the same width (16m). You can see where that’s going. The Tre Kronor can basically sail flat broadside to any high-tier, high-pen BB, like the French (or Musashi), and receive only minimal overpen damage. Maneuverability: Speed: 33 knots. Rudder shift: 7.2 s. Turning Circle: 660 m. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 11.8 km. Detectability by Air: 8.53 km. Main Armament: 2 x 2, 1 x 3 Bofors 152 mm/53 Kanon m/42 Rate of Fire: 15 shots/min. Reload: 4 s. 180 Degree Turn Time: 21.9 s. Base Firing Range: 16.7 km. Maximum HE Shell Damage: 2200 Fire Chance: 11% HE Shell Penetration: 25 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3100 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. While Tre Kronor only has 7 guns, a pretty underwhelming number at a Tier where most CLs receive 12 - 15 barrels, she makes up for that with her insane reload of just 4 seconds, giving her almost unparalleled DPM at her tier, beaten only by Helena Torpedo Armament: 2 x 3 533 mm TT Reload: 70 s. Maximum Damage: 10700 Speed: 76 knots Range: 10 km. Swedish ship, Swedish meme torpedoes. You know how this works. Their extremely fast speed and reload, plus their long range gives her torpedoes much more utility than other cruisers at her tier, but the low alpha strike and tube count makes the Tre Kronor an extremely poor brawler. Also, this is the last ship in the line with torps, so enjoy them here while you can. Anti-Air: Here's where we run into some problems. Pre-refit, the Tre Kronor had an already impressive array of over 20 40 mm Bofors in 10 twin mounts, which by itself would have given her one of the most impressive AA suites at her tier. But post refit Tre Kronor has an AA suite of eleven single mount Bofors 40 mm L/70 and four single mount Bofors 57 mm. Without even taking the 57 mm guns into account, the 40 mm mounts would generate a mid-range aura of 517 DPS. That is more DPS than what the Minotaur generates. THIS IS WITHOUT TAKING THE 57 mm GUNS INTO ACCOUNT. Oh yeah, and the 6 inch guns were DP. Since it causes me actual physical pain to nerf ship performance from historical levels, I will leave the DPS values where they are now, but please know: these values will never make it into the game as is. This goes for every ship proposed in this line from here on out. Also, the superstructures on each hull will be different. Hull A: 2 x 2, 1 x 3 Bofors 152 mm/53 Kanon m/42 10 x 2 40 mm Bofors L/60 7 x 1 20 mm/66 Oerlikon M36 Base DPS: 92.2/198.33/53.2 Range: 6.9/3.5/2.0 km. Hit Probability: 90% Hull B: 2 x 2, 1 x 3 Bofors 152 mm/53 Kanon m/42 11 x 1 40 mm Bofors L/70 4 x 1 Bofors 57 mm/60 Bofors M50 Base DPS: 92.2/681 Range: 6.9/4.0 km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 5 Damage by Shell Explosions: 1870 At least it doesn’t have a short-range aura. Consumables: Standard DCP 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3 km. Detection of Ships: 4 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. 3 x Repair Party Action Time: 28 s. HP Per Second: + 0.5% Reload Time: 80 s. Well, at least it doesn’t have a fighter. Now THAT would have made the AA capabilities too OP /s. Tier VIII: Dutch Cruiser De Zeven Provincien Entered Service: 1953 This is pretty much just a copy-paste of my posts on reddit and this forum, with a few tweaks. Also, you convinced me @Lert, it's a Tier VIII ship. Happy? Survivability: Hull A: 28900 HP Hull B: 32700 HP Armor: Belt: 50-76mm Upper Belt: 25 mm. Citadel Deck: 20mm Deck: 30mm Turrets: 125 or 100mm faces, 50 mm sides. Conning Tower: 125mm. Nose Plating: 25mm First of all, you could probably get away with running the AA survival upgrade on this cruiser. The turrets are basically indestructible. I don’t think any other light cruiser has better turret armor. Secondly, while the 75mm belt might seem terrible at first glance, it's actually not as bad as it seems. Why? Well, consider that the De Zeven Provinciën’s beam is 17.25m, similar to Smolensk’s hull (17.25 vs 16 m. beam), and the belt armor is only at most 5 mm thicker than the Smolensk. What this means is that the De Zeven Provinciën can simply show flat broadside to most BBs and some cruisers at medium to close range and force overpens. That being said though, the ship still doesn't have that much HP, so it is still best for the player to avoid getting shot in general, whether that be through island humping or through skillful use of rudder. This cruiser is also prone to overmatch, due to the poor vertical protection, and poor firing arcs forward. The 25mm plating will bounce super-cruiser shells if angled, but most BBs will punch straight through. The belt armor implies that the cruiser has a stepped citadel, like the RN Cls, but the actual blueprints say that it's nearly at the waterline, so who really knows? Maneuverability: Speed: 34 knots. Rudder shift: 6.7 s. Turning Circle: 690 m. It’s ok. Turning circle and rudder shift times are actually quite good. The DZP was designed for only 32 knots, but since she managed 34 knots in her speed trials, we'll go with that number, for balance's sake. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 13.7 km. Detectability by Air: 8.52 km. This ship may be smaller than most cruisers in the game, but this ship’s superstructure is the definition of a 5head- it's massive, and the antennas and radar equipment tower high above the ship. With the concealment upgrade, CE, and a camo, the concealment drops to 10.8 km, while the concealment by air drops to 6.9 km. Main Armament: 4 x 2 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 Rate of Fire: 15 shots/min. Reload: 4 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 21.9 seconds. Base Firing Range: 17.1 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 2200 Fire Chance: 11% HE Shell Penetration: 30 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3100 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. The Bofors 152 mm were fully automatic, giving the DZP exactly 264,00 HE DPM, the highest in her tier (20k more than Cleveland, the current highest.). The gun had dual ammunition hoists which supplied AA (HE) and AP shells at different rates (15 vs. 10 RPM). This actually isn’t reflected in-game, but is a nice bit of trivia. The good range on the DZP can be owed to the advanced and modern fire control systems on it, and the height of the rangefinders, making up for the poor concealment. The Bofors 152mm/53 fires an HE shell with a similar weight to USN HE shells (101 vs 104 Lbs), but with a faster shell velocity (812 vs 900 m/s). This means most players will find that they can land shells relatively comfortably out to 17 km with this ship, but the firing arcs will likely still allow the player to fire over islands. The AP shells also are fired at 900 m/s, but are lighter than AP shells fired by most of the other cruisers, meaning they would a lot of their speed at range. The firing angles to the front are fine, but are worse when kiting. The playstyle of the De Zeven Provinciën would most likely be of a mid-to-long range HE spammer because of its weak armor but great firepower, and lack of torpedoes; using it's great rudder shift and turning circle to bait and dodge shells. Anti-Air: 4 x 2 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 4 x 2 Bofors 57mm/60 M50 8 x 1 Bofors 40mm L/70 Base DPS: 106/628 Range: 6.9/4.0km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 5 Damage by Shell Explosions: 1870 152mm guns are DP, capable of elevating to 60 degrees, and were radar-guided. With the new +20% AA DPs skill that you can take on cruisers, the DZP can potentially reach over 700 mid-range AA DPS. The 57 mm guns also bump the mid-range AA to 4.0 km, like on the Halland. Carrier players will quickly learn to stay away from the DZP. Consumables: Standard DCP 3 x Repair Party Action Time: 28 s. HP Per Second: + 0.66% Reload Time: 80 s. Starting from the Tier VIII, all ships will get the improved heal found on Colbert and Austin. 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3.5 km. Detection of Ships: 5 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. Tier IX: Plan F (Kijkduin) https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzoeken/archief/4.MST/invnr/3333/file/NL-HaNA_4.MST_3333 Here unfortunately, we start going into paper ships with a bit of fantasy added. The plans for this ship were real, but the amount of information on it are very limited Survivability: The amount the ship would’ve displaced is not mentioned in the plans, but we can speculate on it a bit: It would’ve had almost the exact same dimensions as the DZP, but with a different armament. So we can expect just a few-hundred ton difference between the two ships. Hull A: 32800 HP Hull B: 35700 HP Armor: Again, no armor is listed in the plan, but we can assume it’s the same as the DZP’s armor scheme. Maneuverability: Speed: 33 knots. Rudder shift: 6.9 s. Turning Circle: 680 m. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 13.9 km. Detectability by Air: 8.52 km. Main Armament: 3 x 3 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 Rate of Fire: 15 shots/min. Reload: 4 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 21.9 seconds. Base Firing Range: 17.5 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 2200 Fire Chance: 11% HE Shell Penetration: 30 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3100 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. You would think that one extra barrel won’t contribute much to the DPM, but with this rate of fire, it absolutely does. With 9 barrels firing away at 15 rounds per minute, the Kijkduin has a HE DPM of 292,000, completely unparalleled at the tier. Anti-Air: The AA suite is one of the only things listed on the plans. It calls for 14 x 40 mm Bofors mounts, most likely in twin mounts, and 8 x 12.7 mm machine guns. This would be a considerable downgrade from the previous Tier, but this is a mid-40’s proposal, so had it been built the Dutch would likely have completely replaced this suite by the 50s. For now, I will just fill it in with the DZP’s suite, but if anyone more well versed in Dutch shipbuilding practices could suggest something better, I would love to hear it. 3 x 3 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 4 x 2 Bofors 57mm/60 M50 8 x 1 Bofors 40mm L/70 Base DPS: 112.2/628 Range: 6.9/4.0km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 6 Damage by Shell Explosions: 1870 Consumables: Standard DCP 4 x Repair Party Action Time: 28 s. HP Per Second: + 0.66% Reload Time: 80 s. An extra charge. 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3.5 km. Detection of Ships: 5 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. Tier X: Dutch Cruiser Eendracht The original proposal for the Endrachts would have made for a good Tier VI, but I think a heavily modernized version of it can make for a great Tier X. I know the DZPs were literally modernized Eendrachts, but whatever. We can think of this ship as just an alternate DZP, if that makes you feel any better about it. Survivability: HP: 39200 The Eendrachts as proposed actually displaced less than the DZPs ended up displacing due to the large amount of modern radars, FCS, and electronics put on the DZP. BUT, a modernized Eendracht with those same systems probably would have displaced even more because of the extra barrels and thicker belt armor. Armor: Belt: 100 - 75 mm. Upper Belt: 25 mm. Citadel Deck: 25 mm. Deck: 30 mm Turrets: 100mm faces, 50 mm sides. Conning Tower: 100 mm. Nose Plating: 25mm In theory a 100 mm belt should be better than DZP’s 76 mm belt, but in WoWs it isn’t. The extra thickness just means less of a chance for BBs to overpen your citadel, which is kind of a stupid concept, but I guess this is just an arcade game. Maneuverability: Speed: 32 knots. Rudder shift: 6.6 s. Turning Circle: 660 m. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 13.5 km. Detectability by Air: 8.52 km. Main Armament: 2 x 3, 2 x 2 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 Rate of Fire: 15 shots/min. Reload: 4 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 21.9 seconds. Base Firing Range: 17.3 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 2200 Fire Chance: 11% HE Shell Penetration: 30 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 3100 Shell Velocity: 900 m/s. With 10 6-inch barrels, the Eendracht has a HE DPM of exactly 330,000. Though that is 11k less than Worcester's DPM, she makes up for it with better shell arcs. Anti-Air: 2 x 3, 2 x 2 Bofors 152 mm/53 kanon m/42 4 x 2 Bofors 57mm/60 M50 8 x 1 Bofors 40mm L/70 Base DPS: 129.6/628 Range: 6.9/4.0km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 6 Damage by Shell Explosions: 1870 Again, if any history buffs want to give me suggestions on how to make this different to the DZP, I’m all ears. On torpedoes: yes, the original proposal for the Eendrachts did call for 2 x 3 Torpedoes, but a 1950s refit of them would almost certainly have taken them off the ship. Consumables: Standard DCP 4 x Repair Party Action Time: 28 s. HP Per Second: + 0.66% Reload Time: 80 s. 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3.5 km. Detection of Ships: 5 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. Premium(s) Tier VI Spanish Light Cruiser Méndez Núñez Survivability: HP: 21200 The Mendez Nunez is an incredibly squishy cruiser, having the lowest HP pool in its tier. Armor: Belt: 76 mm. Upper Belt: 13 mm. Citadel Deck: 25 mm. Deck: 16 mm Nose Plating: 13 mm. Again, incredibly squishy. What's new? Maneuverability: Speed: 29 knots. Rudder Shift: 6.4 seconds Turning Circle: 550 m. She is very slow for a Tier VI cruiser. She makes up for this with a tight turning circle and a good rudder shift time. Concealment: Detectability by Sea: 10.78 km. Detectability by Air: 6.44 The Mendez Nunez is a very stealthy cruiser, owing to her short superstructure. Main Armament: 8 x 1 120 mm/45 Vickers Mk F Rate of Fire: 20 shots/min. Reload: 3 seconds. 180 Degree Turn Time: 9.0 seconds. Base Firing Range: 13.2 km. Maximum HE shell damage: 1700 Fire Chance: 7% HE Shell Penetration: 20 mm. Maximum AP Shell Damage: 2100 Shell Velocity: 853 m/s. Her broadside DPM (Her turrets were arranged in a similar way as Atlanta's, meaning she could only fire 7 guns to a broadside) is 238,000, the best in tier. However, the HE shell she fired was very light (22 kg), meaning her shell arcs won't be very good. Anti-Air: 8 x 1 120 mm/45 Vickers Mk F 4 x 2 37 mm/83 4 x 4 20 mm/65 C/38 7 x 1 20 mm/70 Base DPS: 138/17/102 Range: 5.8/3.5/2.0 km. Hit Probability: 90% Number of Shell Explosions in a Salvo: 5 Damage by Shell Explosions: 1870 The long-range aura is incredibly potent at Tier VI: throwing up 5 flak bursts a salvo and good DPS alongside that. The mid-range aura consists of the infamous 37 mm cannon, which is just a terrible AA weapon. The short-range aura is pretty good, but very limited in range. Overall, a very good AA suite. Consumables: Standard DCP 4 x DFAA 3 x Hydroacoustic Search Detection of Torpedoes: 3.5 km. Detection of Ships: 4 km. Action Time: 100 s. Reload: 120 s. Recommended Builds for the Line: Incoming Fire Alert: The incredibly squishy nature of this line means that knowing when someone has fired on you is always an incredibly valuable piece of information. Expert AA Marksman: This skill is basically a 25% boost to your AA. And it is a flat buff. AR and SE: AR is just such a great skill to have on any ship. As for SE, I have found that while playing the Colbert with the same improved heal, I never actually used more than the four heals that came with the ship, so the HP pool buff was far more useful. IFHE: So you can pen more than 32 mm. CE: Concealment. AA Gunner: Because I hate planes.
  2. Very interesting. 14 x drones, MCM project management software, neat drone/boat garage/launching system. Nice demonstration video. Very fascinating.
  3. You find me taking a break from my regularly scheduled (yah right!) battlecruiser ranting to discuss something far more complicated and rage inducing among the keyboard warriors here: Pan European DD lines and specially the lack of onderzeebootjagers in it. Or, you know insert whatever other nation besides Sweden and A-H here. I was specifically inspired by a recent Reddit thread concerning a hypothetical Polish line. While the OP's line isn't all that well done, I did get me thinking about the work I shelved on the Pan Euro lines and how the other nations DDs can fit together to create more lines, now that Sweden is off the table. In short the answer is... But! I'm going to try anyway. Because, what the hell else am I going to do? Grind tokens? Anyhoo, lets start by explaining what it is I'm actually trying to achieve. In short, it's a second line or maybe a line split for Pan Europe that will include prominent Dutch designed and operated DDs. Destroyers are the most common and varied surface combatant among the minor European navies that are usable for WoWs. The Netherlands, Sweden, Spain, and A-H/Yugoslavia being among the most prolific when it comes to independent designs. Greece and Turkey, along with Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania and even the likes of Estonia and Bulgaria all have some kind of destroyer that can theoretically contribute, whether acquired from an outside source or built indigenously. The big problem is with so many different and simultaneously similar designs, making cohesive lines of ships out of this is quite difficult. Really the only exception is Sweden, as being a neutral country, could continue development (if not necessarily construction) of destroyers all the way through WWII. Pretty impressive for a country with such a small industrial base, population, and awkward geographic location. They are however, very much considered the exception rather than the rule which, more than any other reason is likely why they were implemented first; they were the most homogeneous line that could be implemented. So where does that leave The Netherlands specifically? Any why them at all? Well, basically it comes down to the fact that they are the next most unique designs of DD in Europe at the time, and have capabilities that are simultaneously similar and different to the Swedish ships, as the Royal Dutch Navy typically looked to Bofors for a lot of their armaments. They also looked to Germany and Britain to armaments as well, making them quite multicultural ships! The other reason is that, really, a lot of us just feel like after Freisland, the Dutch were kinda done dirty by Lesta in taking the easiest road to implement a Pan European techline. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Swedish DDs too and it is the most logical place to start, but the heart (and @Lert) wants what it wants. So lets see if we can rectify that with some theorycrafting! So immediately, we have a problem: Do we start at tier II or do we branch off from the Swedish line somewhere? Whelp, I'm going to leave that up to you dear reader! The following are 3 different candidates for tier II destroyer. They are: (Spain) Alsedo-class (Greece) Aetos-class (Yugoslavia) Triglav-class (ex Ciclone-class) Now the eagle eyed among you will notice that none of these are Dutch. While The Netherlands does have a period appropriate :ahem: Destroyer in the Wolf-class: This ship is far too weak to be seriously considered, especially when compared to every other tier II line DD. By comparison even to the 3 above ships, only Triglav is slower and all 3 have more torpedoes and more/ larger guns that are more in line with their contemporaries. Both Aetos and Alsedo are British designs with British torpedoes and 4" guns while Triglav is an Italian war reparation ship. A torpedo boat with 2 or 3 100mm guns and 4 18" TT. While Alsedo is rather typical in design Aetos is rather unique as it's 4 TTs are all single launch, 2 to a side. Personally, I am partial to one of these ships for reasons I'll explain later but for now you can choose, or not choose if one of these ships works for you. Tier III is also going to be devoid of anything Dutch (I swear they're coming!) Nonetheless, the best tier III candidate does have a lot of features in common with Dutch designs, so this ship could really help to set the tone for the line. Certainly more so that the tier II's! It also comes from a country that also borders the North Sea, which helps. Enter: (Norway) Gyller One of the excellent Sleipner-class torpedo boats built by Norway, Gyller would in a lot of ways actually mirror the capabilities of the Romulus in the Swedish line. She was fitted with 3 100mm Bofors guns and unlike her sisters, had 4 21" TTs rather than just 2. Interestingly enough, she was captured by the Germans during the invasion and was refit with 2x1 105mm guns and German light AA. Meanwhile, her sister Sleipner escaped to Britain and was rearmed with 2x1 4" guns and British light AA! Again, these refits (Take your pick which one you'd prefer) really do make her more of a repeat of Romulus than anything else. So this is also a ship that could be skipped, but I personally wouldn't. Not just because Norway deserves some love too, but also the torpedo characteristics for this line would likely be very different from the Swedish. The flavour of these ships should be more hybrid playstyle but still emphasizing guns and still based around the same 4.7" guns as the Swedes. Again, similar but different. Tiers IV and V are a bit akward (bud), mainly because I'm not completely sure how to balance our first honest to RNGesus Dutch DD: The Admiralen-class. They were built in two series The Van Ghent and Van Galen subclasses and were fairly similar apart from the slightly longer operating range and newer guns on the Van Galens. Famously, these ships were also noted for being able to carry a seaplane as well, though I doubt that would make much sense in the context of WoWs and were eventually removed anyway. Main armament was 4x1 4.7" guns of either Bofors or Wilton-Fijenoord design, and 2x3 21" TT. I can easily see both or (more realistically) a combined version of these ships show up at tier IV or V. Personally, I lean more towards a combined tier V variant. Either way, this can leave a gap at one of these tiers which must be filled. For tier IV at least, our Norwegian friends come to the rescue once again with this: (Norway) Ålesund-class Two of these ships we're just getting laid down when Germany invaded. Despite some intention to try and finish them, it never happened and the ships were largely forgotten. Main armament would have been four 4.7" guns with a twin mount forward and two singles superfiring aft. They again would have only had 2x2 21" TTs like their predecessors. I like this ship at tier IV more than the Admiralen TBH, and both as a direct development of Sleipner and a precursor to Admiralen, it just fits really well! The alternative tier V on the other hand, is really just a preliminary design for the tier VI ship, which sadly I still can't find any drawings of. Speaking of tier VI: (Netherlands) Gerard Callenburgh-class These fascinating ships were the direct follow-ons to the Admiralen. Armed now with five 4.7" guns with twin mounts in the 'A' and 'X' positions and a single mount in the 'Y' position, and 2x4 21" TTs, (and still the floatplane) these were meant to be pretty sold ships by most accounts. Interestingly though, neither of the 2 ships that actually got close to completed got that orginal armament installed. Issac Sweers escaped to Britain and was refit with 3x2 4" guns and British AA and sonar, making her sort of analogous to a Tribal-class. Gerard Callenburgh herself OTOH, was captured by the Germans and pressed into service as ZH1 changing only the AA and, possibly the torpedoes? Individually, both ships could be premiums in their own right and I wouldn't be surprised if the Issac Sweers does in fact become one, but the original design is just fine for this techline. Onto tier VII, where once again we have a choice. Either a non-Dutch ship but used by the Dutch or just a non-Dutch ship. Personally I prefer the latter: (Poland) Grom/ Huragan-class Yup. Błyskawica's sister. Trading torpedoes for guns now in the armaments department, this does make a somewhat awkward transition. Even with a theoretical refit. And speaking of which this also leads us to the Huragan sub-class that were the immediate follow on to Grom. These ships were basically just slightly improved repeats of Grom but not improved in any of the ways that matter to the game. Armament, speed, relative size all about the same. Therefore we can sort of lump these ships together as simply a single class. However, it does beg the question if doing that bumps them up to tier VIII? And what would go in their place? Unfortunately, this is where things kind of get tricky. On the one hand, tier VII is relatively easy with another British N-class DD, essentially Gadjah Mada's sister and half sister to the Polish ORP Piroun (Also an N-class, but fitted out in the same way as Orkan). So not a Dutch ship, other than by virtue of lend-lease. As for tier VIII, the best I've been able to come up with so far is an early DL design from around 1930-31 that was the precursor to the Tromp-class flotilla leaders. Main armament would have been 8x2 4.7" guns now and less armor than what Tromp was built with but still the same weak torpedo armament. So again, far from perfect. But that's nothing compared to what needs to fill tier IX. Here we come to a screeching halt. While many who have theorycrafted this before simply put the Holland-class ships in this spot, the truth is that it's a terrible and redundant option. This ship is basically just a slightly worse Friesland, and still has no torpedoes. I've seen some try to make the argument that, well just fudge it! Slap torps on it and call it a day! No. Just no. Stahp. Holland is not the answer, no matter how much you want it to be. In all the reading and researching I did, I hoped. No, I prayed I'd find some kind of obscure design study, preliminary drawing or... something to suggest an alternative to Holland that was truly Dutch. But no. The decision to forgo torpedoes on surface ships was made before they even started designing the ships. It was always part of their postwar design plans. So we must look elsewhere, but who's left? Who else can fill a tier IX slot? And with what ship? Well, despite the copious amounts of used Fletchers staring me in the face, I found a ship. From a rather unlikely source... As you can see from this little Shipbucket image, this is the Oquendo-class destroyer from Spain. However the variant of Oquendo that I would propose would not be that one, as that image depicts the earliest version of her with German 105mm guns. By 1948, a DP 4.7"/50 gun was developed and used instead. This gun was even produced for the Pizzaro-class patrol boats (really Corvettes) in the late 1940's. The ship was also supposed to be equipped with a sigle quad 21" TT launcher amidships and 2x3 TT launchers, one on each wing for a 7 torp broadside. The Oquendo that did eventually get built years later and was in service by 1960 however, lost most of this and we rebuilt as a pure ASW platform, with fewer guns, and ASW TTs only. This ~1950ish version of the ship though, can work. I imagine the gun performance wouldn't offer ROFs like the Swedish automatic guns but with 8 guns it will still throw a lot of shells around. Now I know that this is an extremely left-field choice for a line that's supposed to be about the Dutch. As you can imagine, going with a Spanish paper ship to flesh out tier IX when one could probably use that ship for a full Spanish line seems counterintuitive. But look, the performance of the ship does gel with the options that came before. And unlike the other Spanish DDs, this one isn't British at its base, it's French and yet so thoroughly different as to make it their own. As you can also imagine, this would mean that my tier II preference from before would also be Spanish, kind of bringing this full circle here. And with that said, the tier X selection of the Utrecht almost seems anticlimactic at this point: Basically, this is a Friesland but both her and Overijssel received 2x4 21" TT in the early 1960s as an experiment. Type of torpedoes are unknown but hey, torps on a Friesland! So there you have it. It ain't pretty, but damnit we got there! And until we can get some Dutch cruisers up in here, the DDs can still represent! I really would like to find more suitable alternatives for some of the non Dutch ships but they just don't seem to be out there. At least, not on the English speaking internet. So if anyone wants to come at me with some obscure drawings or specifications for interwar Dutch destroyer concepts to help fill gaps, by all means!
  4. Jef_Roberts

    Dutch Tromp class cruisers

    I see talk of a "Pan European" tech tree/collection, which would I assume include the Royal Netherlands Navy. I have posted before and I know others have as well that the Dutch have a long maritime history and a fairly large collection of indigenous designs - many of exceedingly high quality or interest and as such ought to be worthy of their own tech tree. I think the two cruisers of the Tromp class are a good case in point. Conceived of as destroyer flotilla leaders but evolving into compact light cruisers in the design and construction process, they emerged as interesting and indeed unique vessels, both of which served with distinction and survived the Second World War. Compact ships with a tight turning radius and powerful armament for their size. Tromp was completed as designed, while her sister was incomplete at the time of the invasion of the Netherlands and was towed to England where she was completed with English armament. Tough, maneuverable gun platforms with destroyer speed and heavy armament. I would love to be able to play this pair of interesting vessels.
  5. Jef_Roberts

    Royal Netherlands Navy

    Okay so now we have an Argentine cruiser to go with our Polish destroyer and a mostly phantom line of Pan-Asian ships, including an Indonesian destroyer that they bought from the Netherlands Navy. Can we get some Dutch warships in World of Warships? A navy with a long and distinguished history, unique and indigenous warships designs, innovations (the Hazemeyer Bofors was a revolutionary anti aircraft weapon when the US was still equipping its ships with Chicago pianos (quad 1.1s) and Britain was mountain 2pdr pom pom mounts). There are virtually complete tech trees for both destroyers and cruisers that would require only minimum padding with paper ships - the same as was done for Germany and Russia - and a substantial tech tree for battleships as well (all paper ships) culminating in the Project 1047 battle cruiser, a gorgeous cruiser killing beast of a ship. Let's at the very least get some Premium ships to honor this fine navy.
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