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I'm going to try and make this not sound like a rant even though that's what it really is. . . Kitikaze and Harugumo the newest addition to the Japanese destroyer split branch, I was curious as to just how strong these things are so when I was certain that my team was going to lose I brawled a Kitikaze no torps just guns I was in my Worcester with a 19 point commander and IFHE and I closed to within 1.8 kms of the Kitikaze I was on full HP so was he, and managed to get off about 4 salvo's and in that time he got away almost 10 salvo's I have 12 x 152mm guns with a 4.6 second reload, he has 8 x 100mm guns with a reload of roughly 2.4 second with upgrades and commander skills accounted for, now when you'd expect the light cruiser to win in a gun duel with a destroyer because at the end of the day a cruiser's purpose is to hunt destroyers the destroyer Kitikaze wiped me off the face of the planet. . . How is it fair that these ships have the ability to not only win a gunfight with the very thing that was designed and built to destroy them, but also have the range and DPM to be able to sink battleships of the same tier just using their guns? And if it doesn't wish to do that it can instead go silent and hunt you just like a regular destroyer would . . . Now I do claim very often that these ships are broken and need to be nerfed because literally nothing in the game other than themselves have the DPM required to deal with the threat they pose and anything that is not another Kitikaze or Harugumo that tries to get close will fall victim to the 32mm of penetration with 100mm guns. . . The Yamato for comparison has the biggest guns in the game 460mm it requires these guns to be able to not just penetrate the 32mm bow armor of some heavy cruisers and the majority of battleships at the same tier but also overmatch the citadel athwartship armor however ships like the Iowa class only have 406mm guns which cannot penetrate 32mm of bow armor, instead they can only penetrate 25mm bow armor so in a sense you are telling me that with IFHE a 100mm gun has the same penetration ability of a gun that is 360mm bigger than it. . . And it has this ability topped off with a rapid base rate of fire of 3.0 seconds which can be enhanced with commander skills and upgrades, now call me an optimist but personally I think that's overpowered and either the rate of fire needs to be nerfed to maybe 4.6 seconds just like the Worcester, or the penetration value with IFHE for these 100mm guns needs to be nerfed because although I do feel a bit of sympathy for the DD's in the past not being able to really do anything without IFHE I feel like giving them a base penetration of 25mm without IFHE is giving them a bit too much power, because now even with a tier X battleship like my Yamato I cannot avoid these destroyers scoring full penetration damage on my 32mm bow plating when I am bow on to them. And that brings me to another issue, these ships have a base fire chance of 5% not all that much but when you consider that these ships can fire a base of 20 salvo's per minute, that fire chance becomes 100% for 1 minute worth of bombardment and so even if they do not set a fire within 20 seconds or even 30 seconds, they will still have a 100% chance of setting a fire within 1 minute. And if I understand anything about this game that theoretically means these destroyers have a guaranteed chance of setting a fire if they can keep their guns on target for 1 minute, and by then the 32mm of penetration with IFHE will have probably killed the target and if it hasn't fires in this game burn the entire ship, not just the area where the fire is present I.E on the deck or around the superstructure which according to the How it Works video's are capable of being damage saturated without killing the ship making me think that these areas of the ship are separate areas of HP. So why is it that fires deal damage to the entire ship because from what I know a ship can theoretically be controlled from the inside even if the super structure is lost. And it's these things that I have listed that are making me angry that these ships were released even when CC's and supertesters were saying they're somewhat overpowered! Flamu was even witnessed as saying to his audience during a live stream "What do I know I only tested the crap out of these ships" which is making me wonder does Wargaming actually listen to their testers? Because if they're saying that I'm thinking more the opposite but I don't know you can decide for yourself.
Avenge_December_7 posted a topic in Japanese DestroyersSo I've decided to actually poke my head out into high tier PvP with Missouri (after a 40-day hiatus followed by mostly recovery in co-op, operations, and mid-tier randoms divisions) by trying out arms race for the first time. While I lost all three matches (sometimes due to my own fault, sometimes not), in all three matches there was one common feature: the presence of a Kitikaze or a Harugumo. Is it just me, or are these things like Khabarovsks on steroids? To me, it seems that they fire far faster (and usually set more fires because of this), carry better torpedoes, and kite well enough that trying to fight them at the edge of their range (11 km and beyond if they have AFT) with a BB or a cruiser without railgun arcs is like trying to chase a kiting Conqueror: you'll only end up burning down. And from some accounts I've heard and seen, even catching them at close range with a cruiser is a risky proposition if they're not completely caught unaware. How can other destroyers counter them? Apart from perhaps Khabarovsk at long range, pretty much nothing can out-DPM them, and it has quite the hefty health pool to boot. Is there any sort of definite strategy for cruisers to take them down? They seem to be the most effective class at countering them with radar and good DPM, but I've also seen cases where the aforementioned IJN dd's have taken down cruisers with ease. Is fleeing the only option for BBs should they come under fire from one of these destroyers that's smoked up? They usually don't have the accuracy or DPM to effectively attack these things from over 10 km and are most susceptible to being burned down. I mean, I'd rather rush a Worcester that's camped behind an island than one of these things kiting in open water. Pretty much the only class I can think of that can reliably counter them is carriers, but basing a ship's balance solely on the fact that a CV can nuke it is some pretty terrible logic. Am I missing some weakness of these IJN gunboat dd's that can be exploited to counter them, either in the tactical sense (individual engagements) or strategic sense (capping, spotting, etc.)? PS: Please note that I am not complaining about them being broken—I am merely hoping to find out some of their weaknesses so that I may not be as helpless next time I face one in any ship class.
Wargaming keeps saying that they dislike passive gameplay. But they are ONLY saying it. They haven't done ANYTHING in game to encourage people to get in and brawl. All recent game changes encourage camping. More radar, extended radar, higher rate of fire on anti-dd ship (that includes harugamo and kitikaze), hydro on everything so that torpedos are so unlikely it hit anything that aiming doesn't even matter, soft new american cruisers (more radar and island camping because they can be deleted). It's not even like dd's can just wait back and go into camp after baiting out a radar...because there are 3 radars on the other team so a dd player has nothing do to unless the bb's on his team get really aggressive about killing radar cruisers. I've been saying for years that decent players will just adapt and that's still true. But after 3,500 games for me, I am losing the desire to adapt because the game is built to encourage camping and discourage team play by rewarding almost exclusively damage. Wargaming, if you really want to discourage passive game play, take away non-line of sight spotting. I don't mind radar penetrating a smoke screen. But if there's an island between the radar ship and any other ship, those other ships should remain undetected--no exceptions. Even the 2km proximity spotting needs to operate only if there is no island in the way and the ships have line of sight. If a bb comes around a corner and doesn't see a dd's waiting there with 10 battle fishes ready to delete him, that's his team's problem for not getting another dd or plane out there to spot before he moves in. Another way to put it...someone has to risk their hp to spot--no line of sight is no risk and that's why nobody takes any risk and we get static game play. Please line of sight ALL spotting except radar/hydro penetration of smoke screens.