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Found 10 results

  1. So I'm sure most, if not everyone, saw that Wargaming was looking to make some changes to IFHE, HE and plating. This has been an issue for a long time - BB's, HE, and IFHE. So this one is going to be part history lesson, part explainer, and part "how can we fix it". There's a lot of text, basically a wall, you have been warned. I: HE vs BB's back in the day - When the game first launched and sometime after - there was no IFHE, just HE. The point of HE was really for thin skinned targets like DD's, maybe some cruisers, and setting a BB on fire. Though at low tiers some HE could pen more than the BB superstructure. And while there was frustration at low tiers with fires being set, high tier had a very different problem - inconsistency of fires and how outmatched anything but a 203 mm cruiser was against a BB other than another BB, and even then 203's had some issues. Pen on a 5 inch gun HE round is 21.1 mm, 152 is 25.3. This meant bow on, high tier BB's and some cruisers were heavily immune to damage - AP would richochet or shatter, HE unless you caught the superstructure would shatter, and you had to hope on fires. Part of why fire damage was so high. This created an issue in that BB's and some heavy cruisers were likely a bit tougher than they should be to take down because fires were so horribly inconsistent for damage. So something had to be done to redress this right? II: IFHE and the rise of 152 mm cruisers - Damage was inconsistent, so the solution to Wargaming seemed simple - make it more consistent. Thus was IFHE born. And while it has seen tweaks to fire chance, early on it overly punished DD's that took it, and barely punished cruisers by comparison. DD's or any ship with 127 mm guns gained the ability to punch through 27 mm of armour - basically anything but the layer that covered tier 8+ BB's. 152-155mm guns however - they reached the magic number to pen 32 mm armour - what covers the bulk of BB's. Combined with the fire chances they maintained, especially with DE and flags - it was a perfect storm. DD's while potentially strong in low tiers now still lacked punch and had limits on what they penned, what had kept 203 mm cruisers in check, save the likes of Des, was Rof - but the light cruisers had the perfect combination of Alpha, Rate of Fire, and penetration to become monsters eating ships alive. Ships putting out 108 rounds a minute that were straight pass/fail, usually pass, vs most of a ships protection with 726 damage per hit. even if 3 of 12 is all that penetrated, that's 19,602 damage in 1 minute without setting a fire. Any better accuracy, or more Rate of Fire, and numbers really start to add up. Add in the arcs some have that allow them to fire from behind an island 100% safe, it now swung the other way. BB's, meant to be tanks and soak damage, were now ripped to shreds especially if more than one focused on them. Knowing the worst offenders had short range caused BB's to start playing further back, and helped start the "camp meta" of BB's terrified to go forward because even if a DD couldn't get them, they may have 2-3k or more stripped salvo after salvo that they couldn't return fire against and couldn't get away from fast enough. DD's, Cruisers, and now even CV's have had fire duration and damage lowered - BB's have not. Which leads us to - III: The Problem - The problem is really simple, math and timing. Now, most defenders would by now be saying "But Ghost, fires are 100% repairable". Yes well - what does that mean. What this actually means is that - if you have the means to repair all the fire damage you took - you can in fact repair it all. And that's part of the rub - there's a good chance you don't, and heres where the math comes in, as well as timing and other mechanics. With no modifiers at all - 1 fire on a BB does 18% hp damage, as well as large cruisers - a normal repair party (not UK style zombie heal) repairs 14% HP. Now - lets take another WG idea which is to just make premium consumables the default, and assume that it will keep the same CD and number of charges. On an NC as an example that's 4 charges, that last 28 seconds on an 80 second cooldown. 4 fires will do 72% hp damage if allowed to burn, or forced to, whereas the repair parties will only make up 56% of the hp - even with a 5th, you don't quite make it up. Now remember that the repair party takes time, and doesn't start to reset till after it's finished. So that's 28 seconds up, 80 down, 28, 80, 28, 80, 28. To use all 4 on that NC would take almost 6 minutes of taking 0 damage to get back all you can with no issues, a lot when your average match is likely 10-15 minutes. "Buuuut Ghost - there are things to change fire damage and all" - true. There are of course signal flags that reduce burn time and increase amount repaired, these two alone make it closer to 1 fire = 1 repair. But that still takes time and there is a key issue - you have to have those flags. 1 requires that you take 120% HP damage from 4 ships and survive, the other lose 40% HP to fires and survive the battle. Especially for a new player easier said then done. Only other way to get them is as rewards from directives, missions, etc or crates. Well, then you have modernization's - everyone can get them, right? DCSM 2 - the one that reduces fire time, is the 4th slot. Only tier 6 and higher ships have that option if they have a million credits to spend. So a tier 3-5 BB doesn't have that option, with tier 5 being a tier that can be shredded by 127 mm IFHE rounds, let alone 152 mm. Which then leaves skills which sure over time a player can build up to take a 3 point skill to reduce the fire time. If the player knows to get that and sacrifice in other areas that could be just as useful, well, by the time they hit tier 5 they will have only achieved in all likelihood 27-30k of the 37k xp they need to hit 6 points. So newbie in New York is likely going to have a bad day I start raining fire on him with my 14 point Cleveland captain put in my Atlanta. "Your forgetting DCP" - this, once again, comes down to timing. That firerate I pulled numbers for earlier is the current Cleveland. It has a base fire chance of 12%, knocked down to 9% by IFHE. And while I get it's part of the weird equation WG has for fire chance, lets assume that when that's factored in, the average for starting a fire is 6% or 6/100 hits starts a fire. Cleveland fires 108 shots in 60 seconds - Premium DCP coolsdown in 80 seconds. Even holding out till 2-3 fires are started odds are 3-4 get left to burn - up to 72% of the ships HP. And it'll take 6 minutes to repair that damage. And that's the potential of 1 ship let alone 2-3. a nightmare scenario of 100% accuracy yes, but cruisers can be quite accurate. But then comes the part everyone forgets about - the penetration damage. It's not just the fire damage, but the fact that if we round up that figure from above to 20000 - most repair parties only repair half of that. Lets say these numbers are against a New Mexico. The damage is 20k plus 2 fires that had to burn at max for whatever reason. That's 39,080/53,200 gone in 60 seconds. Repair party can repair all but 10k of that technically speaking. However at the unmodified 14% - it would take all 4 repairs to fix both the damage from both fires AND the damage from the penetrations. And that still means 6 minutes untouched to get back to 80% health. Good luck in a BB that slow. And 25% of rounds penning a target causing 2 fires that burn out all the way - not exactly outlandish numbers to achieve. The nearly automatic penetrations are as deadly, if not more so, then the fires. IV: Wargaming's last suggested solution - So, before IFHE the issue is the inconsistency of fires being started in higher tiers where HE can't pen, and post IFHE the issue is that the penetrations alone are as deadly as the fires due to volume, let alone if they do start fires with no actual way to lessen the damage by angling or any other means. So - what does Wargaing's solution posted up on July 3rd look like? Tier 5 and below BB's a 152 mm gun still punches trough unaided, Tier 6 and 7 ships with 152 mm guns can pen tier 6 and 7 BB's/8-10 cruisers with IFHE, but cannot pen tier 8+ BB's at all, while tier 8+ 152 mm ships still punch through same tier BB's. Basically - little to no change on penetration other than Tier 8-10 BB's being immune to lower tier CL. Which brings us back to both the past and current issue with IFHE and HE vs BB's. The new IFHE would cut fire chance 50%. That means while tier 8-10 CL are fine just because they can autopen BB's still are fine - but tier 6 and 7 cruisers that take it to deal with the same tier BB's and higher tier cruisers are screwed against BB's they can see pretty often. So, obviously they can not take it, and keep the fire chance, but basically then anything not a same tier CA on the list is immune and are 100% relying on fires and superstructure hits. No real change in one tier range, the other stays broken or goes back to the way it used to be broken. Not to mention potential ramifications on DD's that use it or a ship like Atlanta. Best case scenario here you maybe fix things at high tier while causing issues in lower tiers, worst case, something on par with the wreck that was the launch, and mostly still is, the CV rework. V: How else to address the problem? - So - IFHE as it is is kind of a problem. Removing it to the old way, also a problem. The proposed changes a month ago - the potential to at the same time change too much and not enough at the same time. So - what can be done to fix it? The funny thing here is for a good while, and to some degree still do, go after Wargaming on CV changes because instead of nerfing an issue directly, like the fact Hak's torp alpha is too high, they nerf around it like changing the way the planes aim, or removing the 4x plane option. This time they go to nerf it directly - when the best option is actually changing things around it. I can't say for certain any one of these alone would be the solution, likely, it would be a combination of things, but all would go a ways to help it. Reduce fire damage of BB's - DD's, CA/L and BB's once all had 18% fire damage, and CV 24%. CV's are down to 2%, almost immediately after IFHE was added cruisers and DD's were dropped to 9%, yet BB's remained 18% - even as cruisers and DD's started getting heals, the one loose justification for the difference. And I'm not even saying nerf them that much - maybe just bring it that BB's and large cruisers are in the same range as Graf Spee. This would allow IFHE to stay unchanged, while reducing the damage just a bit from the fires started - they keep the consistency to pen targets and BB's regain some durability due to less fire damage. Changes to DCP - Having played Gascogne, I do believe lowering the base premium (or possibly if they do the 1 consumable thing just base) cooldown to 40 seconds could go a good way toward helping, maybe lower Gas and Mass's to say 30 seconds to keep the uniqueness? Tweaks to Repair Party - There are multiple teaks that can be done here. Faster cooldown like Gas and Mass, change the pen damage repair percent, repair percent in general, how fast it repairs the damage or some combination of those. Reducing/removing the modifiers - putting aside that I've long felt the "different tiers have more slots" bit should have faded away long ago, it would in general be easier to balance if we don't have to worry about if someone has a no bonuses yo repair party or reduction in fire damage, or all of them. If we use the example from the first suggestion here BB's and 'super cruisers' burn for 13.5% health, DD's and normal cruisers 9%, CV's for 2% - no more, no less per fire. We could always leave one thing, but aside from easier to know and balance around the damage dealt/taken by fires this would open up in combination with possibly the other changes here the option of new Mods and a new skill and more ability to have some choice and variety not pretty much defaulting to DCMS 2 in slot 4 or likely taking BoS just to fight fires. Changing how fire works - maybe fires need to be a little more like detonations. By that I mean once the HP of the magazine hits 0, it starts rolling for a detonation. Perhaps to make fires more consistent, and reduce the need for it, would be if as sections take damage, the fire resistance is reduced making it easier to set that part of the ship on fire at least. Possibly others I forgot or haven't thought of yet. Other than maybe number 5 (it would likely see either the IFHE change Wargming proposed or it'd removal) these would allow the 30% buff to stay, allowing the consistency to stay, if we don't just change the formula overall so that it's not needed, while leaving the ability to set fires intact but cut down somewhat on the ability of mainly 152 mm guns to simply overwhelm all forms of damage control and bring some durability back to BB's if the RNG damage is a bit lower. I think a bit more reasonable and equitable for all parties.
  2. Hi I just want everyone's opinion about the current state of HE spamming and fire. IMO, HE right now is way too powerful, especially those with the capability to penetrate 32mm of armor. Not only they can do super high alpha salvo (Cleveland, Worcester and many more can consistently do 5k dmg per salvo), they can also cause fires. Personally, I would like to see a change to IFHE: Keep the penetration buff but reduce the chance of setting fire by 80% (just putting a number on it). Also, instead of the fires doing direct dmg to the HP pool, they should have dmg saturation like all other types of dmg. A ship would be separated into 4 pieces for fire dmg, and after a certain amount of fire dmg, you won't take dmg anymore to that part of the ship from fire. These are only my opinions and I would like to know what you guys think about this "problem" .
  3. Commandant_Cousteau

    Let's talk about Dallas

    I got a Dallas 2 days ago after grinding a 10 points skill captain on the Omaha. I'm still getting used to the shell arc of the ship but there's something I'm missing. I'm posting screenshots of my last 4 games. I'm firing HE shells obviously, except when I get a broadsiding cruiser in my sight. So, in those 4 games, I landed 397 HE shells for a whooping 106K damage. That's 267 damage per shell on average and it's quite consistent between games. Now, the question is: is that normal? I took concealment expert as my 4 points skill, the reasoning being CE will help survivability and a floating ship should deal more damage than a sunk one. The obvious answer would be IFHE, but it that all there is? Is my aiming really off? Am I shooting the wrong targets? Another big differentiating factor between games is the fire damage. The range is astounding: 1725 to 34660, for 2 to 9 fires. Actual fire success goes from 2.4% to 8.3% My captain has demolition expert and I'm using the India X-Ray flag. Is RNGeesus to blame or can I make a difference?
  4. wdarkk

    IFHE is SO Good

    So on the test server I tried out the new Inertial Fuse for High Explosive shell skill. What it does is decreases the fire chance of your HE shells by 3 in exchange for 30% more penetration. The Budyonny, Shchors, and Chapayev all have 152mm HE shells. An HE shell has penetration equal to 1/6 its diameter (with some exceptions that aren't Russian cruisers and will be ignored). 1/6 of 152 is 25.3333etc. Multiplying that by 130%, we get 32.9333etc. That's higher than the 32mm that covers the extremities of most ships. This means that when you face a North Carolina, or for that matter a Yamato, you can get HE pens on the exterior plating.
  5. I just realized today I finished the KGV grind and I have had some thoughts on her as a whole. First off she is soft, fast firing CLs were just striping HP off of me, I thought the USN Standards were bad at times, but for whatever reason the Colorado seems to be able to shrug this off while the KGV just bleeds to death by a thousand cuts. Oh and I found NCs, Alabamas and Massachusetts guns and reliably citadel me outside of 12km, their derpy slow shells seem to find my citadel regardless of angle. I've come to fear them, but when I'm in my own NC it makes me feel good. Second thing, I've never been focused fired as much as I do in this ship, players hate this ship. Playing this and going to other ships, I feel like I'm being ignored in the other ships. Its really frustrating but I've been able to kite enemies away because they want me dead Third, her AP in punishing to everything! I prefer it against cruisers and destroyers especially because they are less likely to overpen. That said when BBs give me a broadside under 12km I aim a little high and watch the glorious 10-20k HP hits, sure it isn't a citadel but I've never had a BB take some much consistent damage when firing into the upper works of another ship, mostly thanks to her "trash" AP. I ran AP 60-75% of the time, HE isn't bad but isn't nearly as good at hurting the enemy Fourth, Her AA is trash, OMG is it trash. The Nagato has more usable AA than this ship. Wouldn't you know, I take the Lyon out and no CV, I take my AA spec Colorado out, No CV, Scharhorst and still no CV. Then we get the KGV, I swear I never seen as many CV battles at T7 as I have with this ship, strangely though I think most CV captains think this ship has good AA because they will bypass me, most at least. I've had some matches where I was harassed constantly because they knew I couldn't stop them Fifth, this was a good ship for honing my BBs skills. I used to use all AP all the time, now I switch up my shells more often (still mostly AP). I'm more aware of targets of opportunity because he AP is so devastating in the right situations. I've also gotten better at kiting, playing my rudder and throttle to maximize enemy misses while dragging them from the battlefield The Monarch feels like a nice upgrade already even though I've only put in 1 battle so far, her stock range is bad but her excellent concealment negates that. Her guns feel more punchy but she still feels just has soft skinned though. I didn't think I was going to enjoy the KGV because HE spam but if you only HE spam you leave so much on the table, I had fun because she was a challenging ship when you try to play her strengths, its just a shame she has some a low skill floor
  6. Seriously WG needs to nerf chance of fire. Leave it on Dive Bombers but all other ships it needs to be reduced. When you have better results in a lone BB battle with no one else firing at either ship and HE spam dominates AP user, something is wrong. In this case I was chasing another BB and he was showing much more broadside than me and most shots for both were misses or non damage hits but his HE won easily over my AP due to his 5 fires set over maybe 3 minutes of one on one battle. We prob hit each other close to the same number of times but he set 5 fires on me after I had hit him with a few good AP volleys and had clear advantage in hit points. HE damage is fine, especially when a ship is angled like you're supposed to do but it is so frustrating getting burned to death in almost every battle I play at low levels up to tier 8, I have nothing higher. Multiple fires should be the exception, a fun bonus; not the rule. This is even more true when you take into account that cruisers and destroyers have WAY better accuracy at all ranges than battleships. Yes the potential for damage is higher but lets be honest, it's not really that often that battleships do significant damage when you take into account their horrible accuracy, RNG and smaller ships maneuvering. If you don't want to reduce chance of fire, than give BB the same accuracy cruisers get at the same distances. I'm not talking about max range accuracy. So many times I've shot at smaller ships moving in a straight line within 10km and they hit me with most of their shots while my BB hits with maybe 10 percent a lot of the time. Yes there is RNG and proper aim and I do miss often because I aimed bad or shot when they already started a turn or something but I'm referencing when they don't move and shots fall short or go long from fairly short ranges. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel a battle against a battleship vs a lone cruiser at shorter ranges should be kinda scary for cruisers. A battle where the better skilled player wins, not just who spams more HE because so many fires are guaranteed that you can run and maneuver like mad to not get hit and just occasionally fire HE and let your multiple fires burn em down while they continue to flee. I'm trying to like this game and I like battleship play but unless you have a game where RNG is your friend, you are at a huge disadvantage in any one on one battles with smaller ships. Nerf chance of fire or increase BB accuracy a little bit in mid to short ranges. Max range should be harder to hit, I have no complaints with that.
  7. Seriously WG needs to nerf chance of fire. Leave it on Dive Bombers but all other ships it needs to be reduced. When you have better results in a lone BB battle with no one else firing at either ship and HE spam dominates AP user, something is wrong. In this case I was chasing another BB and he was showing much more broadside than me and most shots for both were misses or non damage hits but his HE won easily over my AP due to his 5 fires set over maybe 3 minutes of one on one battle. We prob hit each other close to the same number of times but he set 5 fires on me after I had hit him with a few good AP volleys and had clear advantage in hit points. HE damage is fine, especially when a ship is angled like you're supposed to do but it is so frustrating getting burned to death in almost every battle I play at low levels up to tier 8, I have nothing higher. Multiple fires should be the exception, a fun bonus; not the rule. This is even more true when you take into account that cruisers and destroyers have WAY better accuracy at all ranges than battleships. Yes the potential for damage is higher but lets be honest, it's not really that often that battleships do significant damage when you take into account their horrible accuracy, RNG and smaller ships maneuvering. If you don't want to reduce chance of fire, than give BB the same accuracy cruisers get at the same distances. I'm not talking about max range accuracy. So many times I've shot at smaller ships moving in a straight line within 10km and they hit me with most of their shots while my BB hits with maybe 10 percent a lot of the time. Yes there is RNG and proper aim and I do miss often because I aimed bad or shot when they already started a turn or something but I'm referencing when they don't move and shots fall short or go long from fairly short ranges. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel a battle against a battleship vs a lone cruiser at shorter ranges should be kinda scary for cruisers. A battle where the better skilled player wins, not just who spams more HE because so many fires are guaranteed that you can run and maneuver like mad to not get hit and just occasionally fire HE and let your multiple fires burn em down while they continue to flee. I'm trying to like this game and I like battleship play but unless you have a game where RNG is your friend, you are at a huge disadvantage in any one on one battles with smaller ships. Nerf chance of fire or increase BB accuracy a little bit in mid to short ranges. Max range should be harder to hit, I have no complaints with that.
  8. why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? seriously he for black swan, cause that leads into the rest of the line how? so much for tier 1 ranked! Game Balance Changes For British Tier I cruiser Black Swan, the guns’ reload time has been increased from 3 to 4 seconds. AP shells have been replaced by HE shells: Initial shell velocity — 811 m/s; maximum damage — 750; chances of causing fire — 6%. Since the cruiser’s shells have typical British ricochet angles and a high firing rate, she has gained the reputation of being the best duel ship of her Tier. The changes are designed to reduce her effectiveness, making her less attractive for experienced players, but maintaining comfort for beginners.
  9. Shenanigans_Abound

    HE SPAMMING RUINING BB PLAY

    Is it just me or has the new round of cruisers from the split made BB play more unbearable? People have been complaint for months and months about Battleships that sit in the way back and snipe. Yet what other option is there? I fear this issue is only going to become more profound once the spilt is completed with 7.7. All you ever see now is cruisers, camped out behind islands (where they can’t be shot) and spamming people constantly with fire. Something needs to desperately be done about this soon or the game is eventually going to become world of cruisers because no one will want to play DD with all the cruisers around with radar, no one will want to play BB Because of the fire issue, no one will play CV because of the AA from all the cruisers. Either the fire chance needs to be reduced or the amount of damage done by the fire needs to be drastically reduced. Let’s just ignore the fact for a minute that no modern (ww1- current) warship has ever been destroyed by fire. Really messed up yes, but never destroyed. But honestly, let’s not kid ourselves here. 250 HP per second per fire is a little excessive. And I know what you’ll say, don’t use you’re repair party for one fire, yeah... I know that. I only use it for 2 or more and that’s only if I’m below %50 percent health. Quick example is last night while play, a kutzov fires a salvo, sets 2 fires, okay I’m low on health (20 percent or so) so use the repair. As soon as the RP enters cool down he fires another salvo instantly sets 2 fires again. British BB don’t even set that many fires and they carry a 45-50 percent chance vs the standard cruiser 8-12 percent. When I can take my Cleveland out (trust me when I say I absolutely suck at using cruisers) and can do 95k damage something is wrong but the hilariouty of that is I set 12 fires in the maybe 12 minutes I was alive off of roughly 115-120 hits. So again, it might be time to consider that the fire damage and or chance is in desperate need of a nerf or warships risks losing all dedicated BB players.
  10. DemarticusStone

    British Battleship HE

    I know I'm going to catch flak for this, but at this point, I really don't care. British Battleships absolutely, 100% need to have their HE fire chance nerfed to the dirt, they promote a type of gameplay that ruins the game all together, anyone, and I mean ANYONE could do good in a British Battleship, spamming High Explosive. This video is more than enough proof that they NEED to be nerfed.
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