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AKA, How Secondaries Actually Work, and Why They Should be Changed: Episode 4 Episode 1 / Episode 2 / Episode 3 Good day ladies and gentlemen! With the news of Soviet submarines receiving... mixed responses, I decided to give everyone something else they love to talk about - aircraft carriers! Ok, so maybe CVs aren't the most popular class in the game, but I hope you'll agree that this topic is going to be worthwhile. Let's talk CV secondaries. Many of you probably remember when the developers standardized cruiser and battleship secondary battery firing ranges by nation and tier: German and French battleships and cruisers got longer range, while every other nation's ships got slightly shorter ranges. Overall, the non-German and non-French ships did receive a buff to range. I believe that this was a good change - it makes it much easier to remember the secondary firing ranges of the common secondary-built battleships. However, if you read my last post (Episode 3) you'll know that I personally think that the range on all battleships and cruisers should be standardized, amongst other changes, but I won't get into that. If you want to check that out, I have provided the link above. So what about every other class' secondaries? Well, there are a grand total of five (5) destroyers with secondaries. There's the Tier II Japanese Umikaze, Tier VII Commonwealth Huron and Haida (both tribal class destroyers with the same secondary turret), Tier VIII Commonwealth Orkan, and USSR Tier VIII Kiev. Their ranges are 2km, 4km, 4km, and 5km, respectively. So, yeah, not much to talk about there. So far, both Tier VI and VIII feature submarines with secondaries, although there just aren't many subs in the game to make discussing them worthwhile. Yet. That just leaves aircraft carriers. Eight separate nations now have aircraft carriers, with five full tech trees (Japan, USA, Germany, UK, and USSR). Many players know that German aircraft carriers come with very accurate secondary guns, and when built for them can put up a fierce resistance against lightly-armored opponents caught within their reach. The ever-popular Graf Zeppelin boasts the most accurate secondary battery in the game, and can deal immense amounts of damage in the right scenario. But what about every other CV? Well, there just isn't anything consistent, except for one thing. Tiers IV, VI, VIII, and X of each nation have no standard range - they're all over the map - except for super-CVs. Yes, that's right, every super-CV released (and to be released) thus far has an impressive 7.3km base range. This might seem meaningless right now, but by the end of this post you'll understand why super-CVs receiving "special attention" is so ridiculous. Let's start with some basic stats: the current ranges of CV secondary batteries. Tier Germany U.K. U.S.A. Japan USSR France Italy IV 4.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 4 VI 5 4 4.5 4 5 5.6 VIII 6.625 4.5 4.5 4.5 6.6 6.625 X 6.85 5 5 5 7.3 XI 7.3 7.3 7.3 Outliers Graf Zeppelin 6.25 Hornet 6.6 There are so many things that irk me about these numbers. First of all, zero consistency. Second, Graf Zeppelin has worse range than some of the other Tier VIII CVs?! Hornet gets 6.6km base range versus Lexington's paltry 4.5 km (literally 2.1 km = 46.7% more range). Third, what's with the 6.6km versus 6.625km secondary ranges? This makes no sense... there is absolutely no value in an extra 25m range. Fourth, what possible reason could there be for the perfectly balanced Nakhimov having the best secondary battery range at Tier X at 7.3km? Oh yeah, it has the Russian 130mm secondary dispersion (see Episode 3 for details), which is better than the standard dispersion that everything that isn't German gets. So yeah, best range and second-best accuracy at Tier X is on a Russian aircraft carrier. Why am I not surprised? Now, let's look at the super-CV situation. Notice how the UK, USA, and WIP Japanese super CVs all have 7.3km range. That's 2.3km better than their Tier X predecessors in every single case. I hate to be cynical, but I can't help but feel like this is clear evidence that WG knows that 5km secondaries is trash in high-tier games, which is why Nakhimov also has best-in-class range. This 7.3km range is not just some random number drawn out of a hat. WG have deliberately chosen this number so that there is the smallest gap possible between a ships minimum detection radius and it's maximum secondary battery firing range. Taking the concealment module (-10% detection radius) and the Hidden Menace skill (-15% detection radius) and using all secondary range skills and upgrades means that ALL three super-CVs and Nakhimov can achieve an 11km firing range and have 850 meters or less distance between their minimum surface detection radius and maximum secondary battery range. To be clear, I'm not complaining about super-CVs having decent secondary battery range - I'm complaining about the abysmal ranges of the UK, USA, and Japanese CVs from Tier IV to X. The secondary skills in the captain skill tree only exist to appease German CV players. When was the last time anyone saw a secondary-spec Implacable? Trust me, I was crazy enough to try it, and it's beyond awful. So what's the point of my rant? Well, I'd like to see some sort of standardization of CV secondary ranges across all tiers. This presents some balance issues, but nothing game-breaking. I propose that all nations' CVs use the following base ranges: Tier Range (km) IV 4.5 VI 5.6 VIII 6.6 X 6.85 XI 7.3 This means a nerf of a whole 25 meters to the likes of Aquila and A. Parseval. Oh, the humanity! This also presents an issue with Audacious. She has access to a legendary module that provides a -15% detection bonus, and stacks with the concealment upgrade (-10% detection) and Hidden Menace (-15%) for a total of 9.31km. Boosting her secondary battery range from 5.0km to 6.85km would allow her to have stealth secondaries. Whilst I would love to see that in action, it's probably best for the game that this idea dies in a cold, dark place. Still, imagine being able to kite a cruiser while keeping it spotted the entire time with your planes, peppering it with HE shells! In Audacious' case, I think that this could be easily fixed with a simple nerf to secondary range built into the legendary upgrade. -12.5% would suffice, but -15% would probably just be easier, and still gives a full stealth Audacious a gap of 0.25km between detection radius and maximized secondary range. Easy. The only other area where my proposed "standardized" ranges cause issues is with Ryujo and Shokaku. Japanese aircraft carriers characteristically have excellent stealth for their size, and so buffing their secondary ranges would result in both of the aforementioned ships being able to run stealth secondary builds. This could be fixed by increasing their surface detection radii slightly, which shouldn't affect their battle performance significantly. Add 0.4km to Ryujo's surface detection radius and 1.05km to Shokaku's, and voila, problem solved! Don't worry, both ships are still plenty stealthy: 10 and 13.1km base, respectively (versus their current 9.6km and 12.01km). "But wait," you say, "doesn't that mean Nakhimov will be nerfed?" Yes, yes it does. Isn't it great? I would like to follow up this post with a quick note that I don't think buffing CV secondary ranges is all that is required to make running them on non-German CVs plausible. As I mentioned in my previous post, I think that the Standard secondary dispersion formula needs to be buffed so that they can actually hit something. Otherwise, it's just fireworks and a waste of skill points. I also want to point out that I do not think this is a game-breaking, must-address-immediately issue. This can wait a year, for all I care - it's not hurting anyone right now, but I would like to see changes come to secondaries at some point in the future. I don't want to have secondaries be an "automatic click-and-win" button (there's no skill or fun in that), but in their current iteration everything that isn't German or an American premium secondary BB could really use some love to increase ship build diversity. WG, please consider the suggestions I've made above and the discussion to follow!!! Well, that's all for now. Thanks for reading, and I hope you at least found this discussion amusing, if nothing else. If you like what you see in this post, please consider checking my previous post about secondaries and the upcoming dockyard ship Admiral Schroder in my previous two posts (links below). Take care folks! Episode 1 - Why Admiral Schroder is Doomed to Fail as a Secondary Brawler Episode 2 - Manual Secondary Skill for BBs - Misleading Info Episode 3 - Let's Make Secondary Gun Battery Builds Great

I've been combing through data-mine resources for my Agincourt review, specifically looking at secondary accuracy (secondaries are an important feature on Agincourt). While doing so, I started cataloguing and doing the math for secondary horizontal dispersion. It was pretty eye opening. To date, I've found seven distinct dispersion types. This is by no means an exhaustive list but it should provide players with an idea of how "good" their secondary guns are on any given ship in the game. See below for an explanation on each category. Standard FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 57 ] + 30 } Includes most secondaries in the game barring the ones listed below. Soviet 130mm BL109A FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 49 ] + 30 } The secondaries on the tier X Soviet battleships and cruisers have slightly reduced dispersion. This includes Moskva, Petropavlovsk, Stalingrad, Kremlin and Slava German Battleships FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 45 ] + 30 } German battleships received a buff with the commander skill rework. It includes the following ships: German tech tree battleships at tier VII+ The premiums Prinz Eitel Friedrich, Scharnhorst, Scharnhorst B, Tirpitz, Tirpitz B, Odin and Pommern Accurate FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 33 ] + 30 } Long associated with Massachusetts, this dispersion type has existed for a while and is present on a long list of ships. German tech tree aircraft carriers. The premium & reward ships: Oklahoma, Massachusetts, Massachusetts B, Georgia, Ohio, Agincourt and Max Immelmann The casemate mounts (only!) of Iron Duke, Warspite, Mutsu, Nagato, Ashitaka, Hyuga, Amagi, Kii, Ignis Purgatio and Ragnarok Exceptions There are a handful of exceptions out there. In increasing order of accuracy they are: FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 27 ] + 30 } - Wichita's and Florida's 127mm/38 Mod 30 mounts specifically, not any of the others. FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 12 ] + 30 } - Pensacola FORMULA: { [ (Range in km) x 8.4 ] + 48 } - Graf Zeppelin & Arkansas Beta. Note this is the same horizontal dispersion calculation for "battlecruiser" main battery guns, like Graf Spee, Thunderer and Georgia. Depending on how much of a keener I'm being, I may add to this list as I find more. If there's a specific ship you think should be on here, give me a shout. I'll take a look.

Can I get your opinion on a Graf captain build ? I so far on my 11pt captain have:Air Supremacy, Improved Engines, both secondary mods (Cause graf zeppelin), and Survivability expert. Graf mostly relies on her plane speed, namely her fast torpedo bombers, so would proximity fuse make sense as my next skill ? Dive bombers aren’t a main damage dealer, so bomb upgrades aren’t a focus, and my planes normally fly out of aa with only orange to red damage on one plane so armor isn’t a major problem, would getting demo expert make sense, or just proximity fuse ?

it is no secret that GZ is in a poor state with the new rocket plane reticule Gz has a second attack group that is unreliable after so much fiddling with GZ i say, WG needs to look at it again, it is the worse performing CV at tier 8, the main issue is dive bomber are highly unreliable, the reticule and rng allows for far too many drop where 90% of the ship is in the reticule and somehow the 2 bomb just sideway off to the small part of water in it for its trouble the DB damage have been highly cut down from 7000 to 5400 with a marginal improvement in aim speed, which doesn't mather since the RNG dont care if you dont win the drop lottery TB are the only reliable damage and they are not that great either, they are fine just, they cant just pick up the slack from DB with the new rocket plane reticule, they are acting more like the dive bomber on the reliable departement. i dont know what can be done to help this cv without making it Enterprise 2.0, it needs to be more reliable and at least on part with the competition

One thing I like about the new tech tree German CV's is that their dive bombers fly at high altitude. As soon as they launch, they go near-vertical to achieve that altitude, and I really like the view of looking down at the battlefield from such height. Sometimes, even the battleships look like tiny destroyers, and I get a sensation that I'm really soaring high, lol. Of course, Graf Zeppelin's dive bombers aren't like that, because GZ is an older ship, preceding the new tech tree ships. So I was wondering if it would be okay to suggest an update to GZ, so that her dive bombers fly at such high altitude too. Just saying. And while at it maybe even change her dive bombers' aiming reticle, from the useless (lel) perfect circle, to a more elliptical shape of her tech tree counterpart. I think this would also make her dive bombers a little more useful than they're now, TBH. Plus, maybe even make the stuka sirens a little louder, for all German CV's? LUL. Thank you for your time, lal.

Since version 0.9.4.0 I noticed that the Ta 152 C-1 of GRAF ZEPPELIN are all armed with rocket launchers when in port: In a match GRAF ZEPPELIN of course still has her Ta 152 C-1 armed with a torpedo or a bomb: The GRAF ZEPPELIN Ta 152 C-1 being equipped with rocket launchers in port is probably a mistake due to the Ta 152 C-1 also being used on the upcoming Tier 10 German Carrier, but hopefully it might also mean something more. So the question to be raised is: will GRAF ZEPPELIN finally get a better alternative to the current Ta 152 C-1 that is armed with a bomb in the shape of a Ta 152 C-1 that is armed with AP rockets in the near future? It would be "nice" to finally have an improvement over the current quite underwhelming, to use an understatement, Ta 152 C-1 armed with a bomb. To have an alternative and improvement for this bomb armed Ta 152 would bring German Carriers in line with USA Carriers that also have a choice between the 29 cm rockets and the 12.7 cm rockets for their Carrier Aircraft. Is there anyone that has any information about this? Most likely the rocket launchers that are currently mounted on the Ta 152 C-1 of GRAF ZEPPELIN when in port is just a result of sloppy work by the WOWS Development team and more likely than not the GRAF ZEPPELIN will remain stuck with the current underpowered bomb armed Ta 152 C-1, since WOWS Management has proven that any suggestion to improve anything in this area will be fully ignored. Still it would be nice if this is not just a "mistake" made by the WOWS Development team but instead a sneak preview of an upcoming - long overdue - improvement for the bomb armed Ta 152 C-1 of GRAF ZEPPELIN.

1503 Secondary Hits, 244,775 Damage caused by Secondaries, all from an """Aircraft Carrier""".

I am running from a Kleber and he is burning me good. I get the fires out and I see a CV off in the distance. I use all my horn to warn him of my position and direction. I am heading south. I look back at the Kleber to see how close he is and then back forward. I see the CV in front of me. I tried to turn, but the CV rams me. Great I thought, I am going to be pink now. However, I die, the CV is alright with no damage from the ram bump, and the enemy Kleber, gets the sinking along with the Whether and Arsonist medals. The Graf Zeppelin is fine. Neither of us are pink from team damage. It was as if the ram never happened. I find this amusing. Can we get the Tripitz buff with the Graf Zeppelin armor?

I have to say, the first time I've had fun in a long time in WoWs was with the Graf Zeppelin. The DPM of the secondaries is comical. I want to try it without secondary spec and slip in between two ships. Did 80k in total to the Georgia.

After the current Puerto Rico outrage and the Naval Training Center outcry of a few months ago, many people are accusing Wargaming of being exceptionally greedy and trying to kill their Golden Goose, but I'm not so sure that is really what is going on. It is often said that the simplest answer is often the right one, but I don't think simple greed is the simplest answer, because that conclusion requires looking at a very narrow window of negative events. Now I have expressed this hypothesis before, usually in private Discords or chats, but I don't believe I have ever done a large forum post on it. I want to clarify, what I am going to suggest is a bit insulting and could be a serious wound to someone's pride internally, but I want to clarify that I am not talking about anyone in the North America office, as this problem originates from above them, and they are left stuck with damage control from the fallout, and I for one greatly appreciate the difficulty of what they continuously have to deal with. I am in no way asking any of you paid employees to comment on this, as I seriously doubt you can, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of you haven't noticed what I am about to call attention to. Despite being computer programmers or fairly successful business people, it seems like the top decision people in final game decisions seem to be very bad at math, and in fact nearly every major problem this game has had could be attributed to a failure to double check mathematical numbers and functionally considering them applied to a live game situation before the general gaming public discovered them. Allow me to take a look at some examples of this I personally know about, and many of which I was here for: 1) Kamikaze- This event happened before I began playing the game, but many people have described it as an early panic cash grab, hence why many people are bringing it up now. Mathematically, the number of Pearls was not enough to even come close to satisfy the player base, so after c=some community outrage, they increased the number. This example could be either possibility of a cash grab, or the planners not taking the number of players seeking the ship into full correct context in their event planning. 2) Graf Zeppelin- This ship was offered pre-order which was a mistake because it put them on a design deadline for a ship from a type they did not have enough experience designing premiums for. As a consequence, the first version of the ship was grossly underpowered, causing an emergency redesign after it had gone live that was then overpowered, which it remained until the rework. The main reason this wasn't a cash grab is because once it was redesigned and had clearly become overpowered, they were very reluctant to re-issue it, despite the money they could have made selling it. 3) Duke of York- The original version of this ship could yet make a return to the game slightly redesigned as the Prince of Wales, but it needed help. It was a battleship without a heal, and that means a very awkward play style that would be very difficult for players to handle. Ultimately, the design was changed before release, since it had seen enough press from the CCs so that a large amount of the market was acutely aware of the problems it was going to have. Despite this, it theoretically could be redesigned to appear in the future as a functional ship. The root of it's difficulties came from a lack of consideration of what it would take to make it playable. The math didn't work. 4) Eagles vs Sharks- This event came during the release of the US Cruiser split. The problem was the Sharks blew out the Eagles from day one on, making it an easy call what team to be on for more containers, and making the event fairly boring as a consequence. There was supposed to be a mechanic to give the losing team from the previous day extra help in winning, but it wasn't enough to make it even close. Literally the only reason to be an Eagle was if you preferred the Eagles permanent camo for Worcester over the Shark camo. The later Honor and Glory event for the Russian battleships would fix this event style, giving enough benefits to the previous losing team to encourage enough people to switch teams to keep it competitive. Really, there was no money for WG to release this event in it's dysfunctional state, so this was definitely a case of bad applied math. 5) CV Rework- Ah, the first major controversy of 2019. Not going to get into the intricacies of this one, except to say that while there was money to be made for WG, it couldn't have been enough to warrant calling it a cash grab relative to other events. The math problems came in so many ways like AA, torpedo damage, hit ratios, etc. that I don't even know where to begin. They said they needed the live server to be guinea pigs due to low PTS server numbers, but wow were there a lot of things to exploit early. 6 & 7) Naval Training Center and Puerto Rico- These are both so fresh in everyone's minds I don't really need to get into details, except to say that both events could be described in the context of being a cash grab and a case of WG failing to consider the real life math. Looking back on all of this, I offer for consideration that maybe the problem isn't just greed, but possibly the company has an issue at the top that they aren't using a discerning eye to consider the applied math before they do these things. I ask, are these mistakes something the company could fix by slightly changing their process and adding someone with practical experience in this field to proof check these events first?

I have all the tier 8 premium CVs besides the Graf Zeppelin, and I have found that each is fun and interesting in its own way. I considered buying GZ, but it just doesn't look worth it, not as strong as the others. The dive bombers look abysmal, missing both bombs even on well lined up drops and even if they hit it's usually a ricochet or shatter, or only one single citadel. Compare this to Enterprise and Saipan, and even Kaga, which can frequently land 10k+ drops with their bombs. You'd think either the rockets or torpedoes would make up for this, but GZ torpedoes seem to do the lowest damage at the tier besides Implacable, and the rockets seem rather inaccurate. Is the GZ a good ship or just significantly weaker than the other tier 8 CVs and in need of buffs?

Before the rework the Graf zeppelin was about the ap dive bombers squadrons. After the rework the it was all about the insane speed until the Destroyer community's feedback made all the speeds worse . So then with absolutely nothing left the kept nerfing the torpedo bombers twice and the rockets globally, they restored the torp bombers back to almost normal. Now what does she have to show for when the random player with a paycheck wants to buy her if the even look at her ? NOTHING Maybe if wg is feeling good they'll give us back something like the god like speed or the old bomber dives ,anyways just my thoughts of get frowned on for playing it and not being able to do anything

@Sub_Octavian is there a chance we just call it good and “un-buff” the AP bombs? We appreciate the effort to compensate Graf after the speed changes but it’s not working out. I don’t know if a buff has ever been asked to be reverted but the new bomb mechanics seem worse than they were before. The bombs bounce, overpen or completely miss the target most of the time. Coupled with the speed boost “standardization” this CV feels worse in 8.4 overall. Thanks.

As it stands, it just....feels pathetic playing it, I honestly feel better in my Furious or Hoshou. Looking at stats and in game performance, it doesn't seem to work at all, and I'm fairly okay with my other CVs. I love CVs after all. And like all other classes, they should get buffed WHEN APPROPRIATE.

So I got the Graf Zeppelin from a container earlier today and I've taken it out for a spin a few times. It's not as good as the Enterprise, but I enjoy it regardless. That, however, is beside the point. Something I've noticed about the Zeppelin's dive bombers is that when you start an attack run, you can hear the infamous 'Jericho Trumpet' siren blaring as they dive. The thing is, though, I always figured that the only plane to ever have that device installed was the Ju 87 Stuka, and the dive bombers on the Zeppelin are Ta-152s, a plane that was originally designed as a high-altitude interceptor and as such didn't dive-bomb anything during its actual service period. Because of this, I now ask those of you who know more about history and WG's methods this question: Is there any historical precedent for German dive bombers outside of the Ju 87 being equipped with the Jericho Trumpet? Or is WG pulling a Waffentrager E-100 and making this up entirely? Thank you in advance to whomever responds. Sincerely, 1Sherman.

Granted, I also opened it alongside two event containers I got from beating missions, but I'm not complaining. Cue the hammer of the gods!!!!!!!

Soy el unico de aqui que al ver un mensaje asi: se imagina cosas asi? xD Mi orgullo como animador no me dejaba tranquilo.. me decia "Debes hacerlo!!" asi que.. Quizas les haga una linda animacion despues xd....

my graf zeppelin will come before the new directive starting wednesday...right? WG will not "postpone" her again right? after a hundred years,we will finally be able to buy her RIGHT?

Buenas.... A pesar de que lo veo poco, en algunas partidas logro ver el mitico cv aleman Graf Zeppelin, se que en el pasado tuvo sus problemas y fue retirado de la tienda premium y que ha estado en proceso de rework constante. Mi consulta es con la nueva actualización ¿pondran el Graf Zeppelin? Y de no ser asi ¿alguien tiene noticias sobre los avances o de cuando volvera? Gracias.

2000 battles in a Graf Zeppelin Something many players will think quite disgusting, some will hate me for this. Both are quite reasonable reactions. But I have explored every conceivable strategy in every conceivable random battle setup, with every one of the 2 pre revision loadout combinations and all post revision 6 different loadout combinations with every imaginable captain skill setup that can possibly work (i.e win battles) and many that can't. No other warship in World of Warships comes close to the diversity of gameplay potential as the Graf. It is this cornucopia of endless variations on ways to sink enemy ships, and to win battles, that has made, 2000 battles possible. To @Femennenly WG's resident Air Ace, @Pigeon_of_War WOWS NA producer, and @Gneisenau013 whose topics I have probably mentioned the Zeppelin far too often (everyday?) this is worth remembering, because how many premium warships, on average, are ever played more than a couple of score times by their owners? What happens after 20, 40 or 100 battles? They get bored. I have never had this issue with Graf, or at least, I will admit, not until I hit the home straight and final score of battles for the zweitausend. I accept the CV 2019 rework, I deserve no less than the CV rework, (I still detest the CV rework.) But Graf Zeppelin, has been so much fun, for me. I will miss it. For those that ask, no kittens or puppies were injured during my gameplay. But a lot of players, were very (sometimes rightly) annoyed with me! 95% of my Graf Zeppelin battles, were played solo. My most employed loadout, has been 121AP (1 fighter squadron, 2 normal torpedo squadrons, 1 AP dive bomb squadron). 300/2000 battles were fought with 203HE/AP pre March 2018 revision. But all 6 (8 counting pre March 2018 revision) loadouts are viable. My favourite game strategy has become to launch a blitz strike attack as soon as the battle starts, relying on luck to present me with an ill defended or slow to act target. Because of the nature of random battles and team psychology, this is unsurprisingly, effective for deciding battle outcomes. shoutout to fellow zeppeliners, there are only about 200 of us on the NA server, but still too many to list here, I know you must share similar feelings about this very exclusive bote. https://na.wows-numbers.com/ship/3762272048,Graf-Zeppelin/

this has to be on of the few times rushing B works.

"GZ is more or less fine stats-wise, but it will still unfortunately going to be controversial. We're to blame here, both for general state of CVs in the game and for letting GZ-gate to happen in the first place. Now we're doing the best that can be done in current circumstances , but CV rework should erase such problems conceptually." "well I doubt we will rush her sales now, but cannot promise anything here. I'm not in charge of prem shop." So GZ will remain toxic (good/bad news, depends on which side of the fence you are on) GZ is unlikely to return to the Premium shop for a long time.

Graf Zeppelin lacks a 6th upgrade slot, which means its fighters can neither benefit from a 5% speed boost module (Flight Control 2) nor a 15% attack aircraft hp boost (Air Groups 3) nor even a boost to secondary battery reload times (Secondary Battery Modification 3) Rather than complain about the fighters being down tiered, or 2 weak, testers hoping to improve the GZ fighters would do better to argue for this extra 6th upgrade slot, to ensure GZ is treated as an equal to the Enterprise. Currently, there is an objective need for an essential buff, for this ship. I look forward to enthusiastic support from the community on this matter. Nutty.

The following is in no way intended as either criticism or praise, as objective or polemical. Some people may feel offended, others may laugh and think, what an idiot! 100 random pvp battles in the Graf Zeppelin (premium shop version limited edition which was sold for a brief moment at the end of August 2017). First of all, I have enjoyed these 100 battles (well most of them), probably more than any other warship of WOWS, and this despite everything. Perhaps because of the challenge, or perhaps because I felt I was doing well. (For comparison, look to the right of the image to see results with Saipan and Lexington). personal and subjective conclusions after these battles : 'August 2017' GZ has a fluid sense of play, with a manageable tempo of sorties and strikes. Fighters are weak, but sensible usage, avoiding dogfighting, preferring to save them for scouting and strafing opportunities, means they are often sufficient HE divebombers are versatile, capable of dealing out pain in regular waves AP divebombers are not useable in pvp, to be avoided Having little experience with IJN CVs and their heavy reliance on torpedoes, I don't miss them (cue : outrage, "How dare he? Call the cops, a pervert, he doesn't like torpedoes!"). Average damage per game is low in comparison to its peers (Lexington, Shokaku and Enterprise), but this is compensated by its tactical adaptability, and ability to maintain a quite fast strike rotation (take off, attack, return and rearm) Kills with the secondaries are rare, but when they happen they are quite epic and supremely enjoyable, I have on record, sunk 2 destroyers, a cruiser and 2 battleships with the secondaries alone. WG should offer existing owners the right to permanently own a collectors edition Graf Zeppelin, 'August 2017' version alongside the future in development new 'improved' version if there are major changes Anyone who spends so much time playing this CV, and spends so much time on forum talking about it, is probably a masochist. When replaced by the future reworked edition, the 'August 2017' Graf Zeppelin will be missed by few, but those who do will miss it dearly/ please keep replies to this thread on topic, avoid polemic and keep it good natured.