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WanderingGhost posted a topic in Player Feature and Gameplay SuggestionsYes, here I go yet again. I'm against the reduced tech tree's, and hate the cookie cutter nature of everything has rockets, torps and bombs and tossing history out the window. I'll likely get a bunch of "Gameplay>History" - I don't care, I get the concept when we HAVE to throw it out. You can have history AND gameplay, and be fine. Just as you can have gameplay over history, and wreck the whole thing. Much like with my thing on having Kaga tier 6/7 - I don't have ordnance damage for the rework, otherwise, I'd include what it should generally be set to given I prefer we go the road larger groups, which gives more accuracy, but lower alpha damage. And I'm under no delusions here that even IF they listen to me - that this goes live in a week, and that they delay 8.0 till this would be ready. But I'm sure they can make the ordnance changes, or at least some basic ones, and then as they finish add further touches in armaments, integrate odd tiers a bit later, etc. But the tier hopping is bad for player learning, were losing some important CV's, and I flat out do not approve of the ideas they've kicked around of CV's being put as alternate branches to drop smoke, fight fires and cap with floatplanes. Anyway, enough of my complaints - here's my suggestions Tier 4 All nations, barring one that maybe did things out of order due to timing and all, start with simply TB's and DB's These were the first types developed, they are the real backbone of CV strike power, and keeps things simple. As to specifics - USN - 3 TB's, all 3 attack in a single strike, spacing similar to current Saipan, maybe a tad closer. 6x DB's, attacking 3 at a time, armed with 500 pound HE bombs. IJN - 4 TB's, attacking in 2 pairs. 4 DB's, armed with 250 kg bombs, HE type but increased pen to simulate more of a Semi-armour piercing bomb, attacking in 2 pairs. Tier 5 These are going to be a simple upgrade to include rocket planes into the mix now. Think of it as an "advanced training tier". You now have the control of a 3rd type added in, and face slightly tougher opposition, as well as start seeing deviations in lines. USN - Independence made tier 5 (Bogue set aside to be a free xp/easy earned sub hunter after subs are added to the game, or some other tweaks). 4x FM-2's added, attacking in 2 pairs with rockets along with the previous aircraft from tier 4, but upgraded planes. IJN - Zuiho set aside for now, Ryujo moved to this tier at a later date (if evens only at launch, needs to fill the spot at 6). Adds 4x A6M2's armed with 2x 60 kg standard HE bombs. These would have a more circular drop pattern vs the DB's drop reticule, being closer to USN rockets in function - start fires, disable AA, etc, however trading accuracy for a bit more bang, where as the DB's with their higher pen/lower fire chance are a bit more raw damage. Tier 6 Otherwise known as - "My first big boy/girl carrier". This is when we will start to see the fleet type carriers. You get more planes, that are better than your previous in the case of USN (IJN will basically be using the tier 6 planes at tier 5), and face even heavier AA - this is the tier you start showing what you know and fully applying what you learned in the previous two...hopefully. And now you start to see that even higher tier gameplay. USN - Ranger here, as in rework currently. increased fighters to 8 planes per group (2 groups, 4 planes) an additional TB in the strike (1 group, 4 planes) and DB's to 8 as well (2 groups, 4 planes) IJN - Carrier Soryu takes this slot (eventually), equipped with the same as the previous but now 6 fighters, still armed with the 60 kg bombs in 3 groups of 2, 8 TB's (2 groups, 4 planes, same pattern as current IJN strikes) and 9 DB's (3 groups of 3) Tier 7 Decisions decisions, this will be the first tier that offers some options. USN - This tier will belong to Yorktown on the USN side. Slight increase in planes, 10 fighters (2x5) yet another TB (1x5), and 12 DB's (3x4). However, as opposed to just be saddled with the 500 pound HE bomb, you will now have an option for a 1000 pound HE bomb - trading a bit of accuracy for more punch. IJN - Hiryu keeps it's place to square off against Yorktown. 9 fighters (3x3) 9 TB's (3x3) 12 DB's (3x4). The A6M5's this gets no longer carry 2x 60 kg bombs, but a single 250 kg HE bomb as opposed o the SAP of the DB's. As opposed to previous tiers TB's get an armament choice - They can opt to have a torpedo that has lower speed, but a shorter resurface and a bit more damage and if possible, able to operate in shallower water than USN's. Tier 8 More decisions and the point you really see higher tier gameplay more often as the planes get better and we have some more increases. USN - 12 fighters (3x4), 6 TB's (1x6), 15 DB's (3x5) . The F4U's will be packing 2 more HVAR's than previous tiers for a total of 8 per plane. TB's are, well, still TB's but now you have the standard 6 of current USN CV's in your attack. DB's meanwhile have 2-3 choices now. Did Wargaming just release a line DD's everyone is playing? pack on the 500 pound bombs for lower damage, but better accuracy to sink that DD before he sinks you. A new line of heavy cruisers - make'em hurt with a 1000 pounds of HE that takes out their AA AND their HP. Has the day finally come that the grand Stalinium BB's have been unleashed? Show them the power of 1000 pounds of armour piercing freedom can do. Maybe even in a smaller, more convenient 500 pound form for those pesky light/medium cruisers that are just armoured enough 500 pound HE isn't enough, but not so much 1000 pound AP goes straight through for minimum damage, but too small and agile for 1000 pound HE to be effective. IJN - 12 fighters (3x4), 12 TB's (3x4), 12 DB's (3x4) - The N1K's now are packing 2x 250 kg bombs. TB's well, now you have 3 runs with current IJN pattern, and your previous torpedo options. Also, you can run the D4Y's with either the same 250 kg SAP bombs, or 1 500 kg SAP bomb - less coverage, tad more accuracy. Tier 9 But wait - THERES MORE USN - 15 fighters (3x5), 6 TB's (2x3), 18 DB's (3x6). We see the return of proper tier 9 planes to this ship. The F4U-4 is back home, and now in place of HVAR's - she has the options of bigger, badder Tiny Tim's. While her TB numbers are not increased, the AD-1/2 moving here carrying 2 torpedoes like on the Saipan makes up for it. Though, maybe a straighter line that's a tad more spaced out. As to DB's, all previous option on the table, and you have more. IJN - 12 fighters (3x4), 12 TB's (3x4), 16 DB (4x4). Not much changing here - fighters are newer, but same options, TB's are newer, but same options. DB's however now come in 250 kg for less damage but more bombs, 500 kg for likely best for those that want fewer bombs, but a bigger boom, and 800 kg for those that want a VERY big boom. Tier 10 The tier where everything has it's it's largest numbers, the American's unleash the big fire (no, not the A-bomb for those that get the reference) and the IJN insists you have a drink of water. USN - 18 fighters (3x6), 6 TB's (3x2), 18 DB's (3x6). 3 Groups of 6... something's carrying HVAR's or Tiny Tim's. Personally instead of the F8F's return, I'd actually like to see the F9F Panther or F2H Banshee at tier 10 - faster than the F4U's (maybe not max speed cause attack run), or if they are faster, give them less HP. Maybe even have it an alternative - a faster plane so it's a tad harder to aim, but can get through AA faster but when AA like flak hits - it hurts more cause weaker aircraft. It has plus and minuses. The TB's are now the AM Maulers - carrying 3 a piece dropping in pairs. And then there's the DB's. 500 pounds can still be an option, 1000 pound HE still there as well as AP, but now we have a new option if you find there's not enough boom in your life - 2000 pound HE bombs. You might get a lucky shot that'll hurt a DD, more likely just some disables from the blast or minimal damage, some of the regular cruisers, you might score a hit, 2 if your lucky. BB's, CV's, maybe the super cruisers - ooohhh they are likely to feel that one seeing as they are nice, big targets. IJN - 16 fighters (4x4), 16 TB's (4x4), 16 DB's (4x4). At this point - it's a fake ship, with fake planes in most, if not all cases. So, this is where I say "okay, screw it" - IJN's fighters get an option to mount whatever rockets Wargaming wants to give them as an alternative to bombs. TB's get a third option now - Deepwater torpedoes with that increased flood chance, but only hits CA/L, BB, and CV's at most (dubious of making them like Asashio's). And DB's have their previous options. Ideally, having all tiers, aside from allowing us to not screw around with the premiums, would help better ease players in to higher tiers, as opposed to jumping from 4-6-8-10 because the gameplay you see at these gaps is VERY different. As you go up, you get a new type when you learn the basics with 2, and as you go up you get acclimated to having more and more planes and strikes. More importantly, options add's variety, which the rework desperately needs and at more than basically tier 10. Once you get past training/beginner tiers you start getting ways to customize the ship more to whatever challenge you need, whatever ship line was just introduced, or whatever you wanna toy with that match. And hopefully, this would also help make these two lines feel more unique from each other. USN focuses more on rockets and DB's than on torpedoes. And even though it catches up in number dropped - it takes an approach overall more along the lines of putting all it's eggs in one basket. Short of the jet fighters with rockets, slower, more durable, but fewer attacks and more in a group to lose, even though it has 2 more torps than IJN at tier 10, having 3 on 1 plane means losing one plane is 16.6 percent of your striking power. IJN, on the other hand, focuses a bit more on Torpedoes and bombs, a bit harder hitting in that sense, but opting still for "our planes will blot out the sun", using smaller groups of more agile and faster planes, attacking more times. I see their bombs generally being a bit less accurate than USN's, meaning they aren't quite as good at going after a DD. But, the TB focus in numbers, DB's with better penetrating HE - excel at hunting BB an maybe weaker AA cruisers. Where as a more "standard" USN loadout would be likely better at going after Cruisers and DD's than Battleships. But USN has options that can let it trade some of that to hunt a BB or any one type better, and IJN too can more heavily focus on a type. And even without going away from historically used things there are still further options that can be explored in alternate lines, premiums, or just adding more options. Other than where noted - I'm limiting what I have here to 1 bomb. Some of the IJN and pretty much all USN can carry more than 1 which an add differences or options. Maybe instead of torps in a second USN branch we make use of the heavy lift ability and while they lack torps have 2-4k pounds of bombs to drop. The USN fighters all had bomb carrying ability. Straight HE could be added to IJN as an option on DB's while a second line focuses more on bombs than torps. Maybe different in that instead of DB's like a bomb heavy USN would be using level bombing in the likes of the B5N. AP for IJN I'd rather save as unique to Kaga (used in the attack on Pearl) for options but, if need be, as an option not the default and used on level bombers till maybe high tier, could be a thing. Like I said, I know there's no way you can do all this in a week. Not sure where you guys are on Yorktown which I thought I saw in the proposed split but can at least be reverse engineered from E to save time, not sure just how different Soryu and Hiryu are if you could modify a Hiryu model to be close enough to Soryu to save time, with a proper ground up model maybe later. But the basic ordnance and number changes should be doable in that time frame I think as most, if not all the resources are already in game. And nerfing ordnance damage - what I've seen of round 2 and 3 seems like it needs a nerf as is, definitely needs one under my idea as I generally have more planes attacking than current testing. I'd give you the numbers, but I don't have current ordnance damage in the rework to figure it out. Worst case scenario my numbers for RTS should be just as viable as a starting point seeing as were still talking fairly high volume. I'm never going to love the rework. Much as I typically hate RTS stuff this is the one time and game I actually enjoy it. I'd like it better if we just removed strafing or nerfed it right and my long list of other changes and really made more a battle of wits than battle of the alt key, but c'est la vie. But not removing effectively half my tech tree ships, not throwing history completely out the window, not removing tiers to mess with them and add goofy as hell things like fire fighting equipment and add them back in at different even tiers, giving us more options across tiers, and giving the ships some actual difference and personality in what they use and how they attack - it goes a long ways toward helping me at least tolerate it. When it comes to premiums - I already said my bit on Kaga in a separate thread. Saipan I won't lose sleep over moving up in tiers, Not sure what you guys want to do and are doing with E, but I may have an idea or two (as I recall she was the first CV rated for night/poor weather operations) and well, GZ I have no ideas what you want to do. You want to keep her 1938 planes, fine, still don't think she should be tier 8 but I have ideas. Want to move more towards her 40's updated planes, that's fine too, still got ideas. Still would have been better to make her part of the tree and just put some Fw-190's on her since tree's are more what if upgrades anyway.