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I have recently obtained enough coal to purchase either the Forrest Sherman, Tromp, or Alvaro de Bazan and I can't decide which one to get. I like fast gun boat dds, which would be the best to get? (I don't grinding commanders with prems or play competitively)

I haven't been sooper motivated to write lately, especially as I have promised to follow up with my Spanish Cruiser dissertation with a CA branch but alas, that'll have to wait. Because as of today, I got a BIG motivator: Now I'm not going to regail you with the details as many of you have already seen it (after all, if you actually read the forums you probably read the devblog too) but if not, go read it and weep. So having said that, what do I, the idiot who keeps making these theorycraft posts about such a 2nd DD line think of this? In truth: I'm conflicted. On the one hand the tiers V-VIII are... actually not bad. Still copypasta mind you (and I'll explain that in greater detail in a moment) but overall these are real steel ships that were really built and really served, though in Split's case, it wasn't completed to it's original design. But tiers IX and X OTOH, are... sus. Granted these tiers were always going to be a yuuuge challenge even for WeeGee to find suitable, well, anything but not impossible but instead they reverted to using what can only be described as a British Capitani Romani- class style ship that maybe, kinda, could've been built and then possibly sold to Greece guys I totally explain it all in my fanfic novel! Guys?... And then at tier X we have... a Polish Mogador? Because reasons? It should come as no surprise for longtime readers that I was/ am very disappointed in the recent announcement of the PanAm cruiser line as well for the same reason; that these were minimal effort, copypasta lines designed to maximize use of existing assets and minimize lead-in time for development. This Pan European DD line by extension appears to pretty much be the same thing. "But Trophy!" you say, "We've never had an S-class DD or Split for that matter in game or this British flotilla leader.. thing they can't show yet so clearly they put more thought into this than the Pan American line!!!" No, no they didn't. Pretty much everything presented here except for the tier IX is made up of reused assets, which is likely the reason they can show us this content at such an early stage in the first place! I actually have a personal theory about why they're doing this: you see, with the loss of Lesta (and the inevitable brain-drain that had caused as the employees there either didn't leave/ couldn't escape Russia) means that much smaller, more dispersed teams in satellite offices now have to pick up the slack for new content development (we're talking the offices in places like Austin and Prague) and because WeeGee is likely also trying to recoup losses of that capital they need content to entice the playerbase with, and they need it quickly, even while they're trying to get their house in order. The end result is stuff like this: So what then, about European destroyers? What would I do differently? Well lets theorycraft that shall we? The first thing I'm going to do is to simply try and improve the line as is. It is important to remember that the official line is VERY WIP, so my suggestions might not make any sense in the near future, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Also, in order to maintain continuity with the line as is, we'll skip the low tier stuff and start from tier V. Seriously if you want to see my thoughts on low tier ships, go read my Three Part Series and check them out. So we start off at tier V and are presented with Muavenet, a Turkish I-class DD and a very sensible start in all honesty. Keeping in mind that this sub branch is going to be more gun focused, a downtiered I-class with one less TT launcher is a perfectly cromulent place to start. Can we do better though? Possibly, as this line is essentially trying to be the DL line for Europe, something based on Ambuscade or Scott could work, despite doubling the torpedo armament. The Portuguese Douro- class would arguably be the best representative: Next up at tier VI is Norway's time to shine with Stord, and S-Class DD. Nice to finally get some of the WEP destroyers into the game, but I have no doubt this was in fact a reused asset. (Commonwealth/ Dutch DDs anyone?) Regardless, this is again, a perfectly acceptable option to have at tier VI but I think we can find something a bit more interesting. Since this line is looking to have some larger caliber guns than the main "Swedish" line, fitting of their role as DLs we could offer up Yugoslavia's first DL, the Dubrovnik: Armed with 4x1 140mm guns and 2x3 TT of the 21" variety this could be a really good step up, but progression from here to tier VII would be awkard due to the lack of any other ships armed with such guns. Instead we'll try and maintain some of the British flavor and go with one of my favorites, the Vasilefs Georgios I -class: These fascinating ships combined the hull of an H-class DD with German 12.8cm SK C/34 guns, same as on the Z1 and still keeping the same torpedo armament as above with Stord. At tier VII, the sensible, safe bet: Grom. Lead ship of her class and Błyskawicas sister, if you're going for gun power it's the most straightforward option you can have at this tier and honestly not a bad pick overall. But safe is boring, so lets spice things up a bit and throw in the Alp Arslan-class from Turkey: Essentially just a Lightening but with half of it's TTs taken away, it should be a good fit to drop down to tier VII. Alternatively, we could go with something really left field: This is Bulgarian DD Georgi Dimitrov, an Ognevoi-class DD that Bulgaria acquired after WWII and was it's second, and last destroyer ever. Making up in caliber what we lack in barrels, we have the same 2x2 130mm guns that the Soviet tier VIII gets and still the same torpedo count as Grom, 2x3. With this ship, we're still able to maintain that heavier gun progression from tier VI as we make our way up to VIII with: This is Split as she was originally meant to be completed, with 5x1 140mm guns and still 2x3 TTs, it would have been an impressive ship. But after getting passed around during WWII Yugoslavia eventually did complete it but was rebuilt with American guns and equipment turning it into... I guess you could say a worse Velos? By choosing this ship however, WG sort of painted themselves into a corner. There were no ships planned by anyone (believe me when I say I looked, oh boy have I looked) with guns larger than 5", especially after WWII. This means the only option is the alt-reality nonsense ships that they have subsequently come up with. So, is there something better than this? Why, yes yes there is. But to do so we'd have to abandon our large caliber ships. First off we could just have Split in her 1958 form with the 4x1 5"/38s: Unfortunately, this too is going to paint us into a corner later on so instead lets see if we can continue from Grom, and that could potentially present us with two options: The first option is that we simply bump Grom up to tier VIII or it's follow on Huragan series ships which weren't built but were, again just follow on ships with heavier AA and other minor improvements. The other option would be another Norwegian, this time the Cr-class ship Trondheim: At first glance this doesn't look much different than the earlier S-class ships but the key is that in choosing this, we are abandoning large caliber gunboats for small caliber ones. This ship, while only have 1x4 TT launcher does get 4x1 4.5" guns of Daring fame and can now fire at up to 24 rounds per minute! This now changes up to perspective of our high tier ships from big alpha, to dakka dakka. Tiers IX and X would either have to once again be made up, kept as they are currently or abandoned in favor of our dakka botes. However, at least at tier IX we could introduce yet another Fletcher from Turkey or West Germany, making them sidegrades to Velos, with all other stats being the same. So to present a more realistic dakka alternative, here's me just cribbing my own words from a year ago: Tier IX: Błyskawica 50' Here it is, the ultimate evolution of Błyskawica. Refitted with an all new Soviet armament consisting of... either 8 or 4 100mm B-34 guns. This weapon is already in game as secondary armaments to a few Soviet cruisers and aside from a slightly smaller shell (duh) and higher velocity is more or less the same as the 4" guns mentioned above. What isn't clear though is the mounting. One source says that they had 4 guns in singe mounts of standard design of the time. They were improved with full electric drives and loaders and in theory allowed for ROFs that were similar to the aforementioned 4" British mounts (around 20 RPM) again, I'm not 100% clear on the capabilities of these mounts. However, if it did in fact have 8 guns, then it sound like the Poles or Russians or whoever just rebarreled the British MkXIX mounts in which case... 20RPM it is? In addition she was also given much more modern Soviet AA guns, a single quintuple TT launcher, radars and sonars. Seriously, if someone has some images or more definitive information about it's loadout post 1950 I'd be grateful! Nonetheless, I think that this might just be crazy enough to work at tier IX, if given 8 guns. So with that established, what exactly is the tier X? Well as you can see, this line had led me to small caliber guns equipping high tier destroyers, Harugumo style. Unfortunately, the ships that I found that were equipped with such weapons were predominately frigates, which lacked the high speed, torpedo armament and even enough guns and displacement to be effective at tier X, so that was a non-starter. Surely someone had to produce a proper destroyer with 100mm or similar guns in Europe at this time?!?! And as it turned out someone did, from a most unlikely source... West Germany: Tier X: Hamburg-class This ship is downright wacky. I still can't believe it existed. Main guns 4x1 100mm Mle 1953 with a rate of fire of up to 60 rounds per minute! A one second reload. Torpedoes are even wackier. 5 single 21" tubes, 3 in the bow and 2 in the stern wait, wha? Yes, in the bow. Granted they were later sealed up when the ships were converted to DDGs in the 70's but still, this ship is all kinds of insane and I love it. The only problem with this ship, other than whether or not you consider West Germany to be lumped into the main German line or stand as it's own nation is is this too radical? After all we are talking about ships that, while designed and built in the 50's weren't commissioned until the 60's! How advanced is too advanced? Personally, I think it's kind of a moot point at this point because, well, what's the alternative? Sadly, as much as I'd like to believe our words mean something to this company, I know all too well that the best we can do is keep hope alive that we get to see some of our favorite ships show up in one form or another, all the while wondering what fight have been...

The Soviet DDs have short range torpedoes until t8. Now, when they were the only long range gunboat dds in the game that was fine, now we have the Italian, French, and German line split. The Soviet DDs should in my opinion get the option to mount 8km torps from t5 and up. Bonus. The Abruzzi needs help, it is so anemic maybe a reload buff is in order?

This is a line I thought of recently that would have a fairly unique gameplay style and the premise is Tanky torpedo boats. I Know u can say that the EU dds are somewhat tanky due to their heal but they have low health and armament for their tiers and are still fragile like the other torpedo boat line the ijn shima line. Gimmicks/Features: Generally high or average hitpoint pools for the tier with the same hull saturation mechanic as the main line Great concealment for destroyers of this nation Fast long range torpedoes with high damage Emergency Engine Power allows for quick escapes, Alongside Short burst Smoke and a Repair Party for patching up Battle damage Cons: Generally slow ,especially compared to their main line counterparts and outside of the engine boost Not very Maneuverable Slow torpedo reload Low torpedo count compared to same tier counterparts Sluggish Gun reload and traverse due to no main battery reload booster Mostly Bad AA Tier 7: L' Adroit Its basically an improved Borrasque at tier 7 unshoehorned to fit the tier Guns: same properties as Borrasque except for reload which goes down to 4 seconds unlike the 6.6 of Borrasque and range which is the exact same as Vaquelin Torpedoes : Unlike Vauquelin, L'Adroit has the same torpedoes as Le Fantasque with the same increased speed and damage over Vauquelin AA: Identical to Vaquelin HP: Base :11500 Upgraded : 14500 decent for a tier 7 dd Concealment: 6.8km this makes it the second stealthiest dd at the tier sam Maneuverability : same as borrasque Consumables : Short Burst Smoke 6 charges Emergency Engine power 6 charges Tier 8: Le Hardi looks like a 3 turret mogador and this ship is currently ingame in the form of zf6 in another form but it will be brought in the original nation it was intended for service in Guns: these are low angle versions of the guns found on Dunkerque ,Strasbourg , Lyon and Normandie and as such have a 4.5 second reload and the same range as Le Fantasque and have the same damage as the tier before Torpedoes : Le Hardi has the same torpedoes as Le Fantasque with the exception being the range which has gone up to 9km and the reload is longer at 120s AA: 1 twin 37mm 2 twin 13.2mm stock upgraded: 1 twin 37mm 2 twin 13.2mm 2 single 13.2mm 25mm HP: Base :12000 Upgraded : 15100 comparable to Kagero but suffers from low stock health Concealment and maneuverability: 7.4km same as zf6 and handles the same except for going 37 knots Consumables : Short Burst Smoke 6 charges Emergency Engine power 6 charges repair party 2 charges Tier 9: Lansquenet (improved Le Hardi) looks like a 3 turret Kleber and this ship is currently ingame in the form of zf6 in another form but it will be brought in the original nation it was intended for service in and represents the unfinished group of le hardis that zf6 was a part of that were supposed to have dual purpose mounts and two centerline triple torpedo tubes but for increased firepower over the previous tiers the mounts are two quadruples Guns: these are high angle versions of the guns found on Dunkerque ,Strasbourg , Lyon and Normandie and as such have a 4.5 second reload and the same range as Mogador and have the same damage as the tier before Torpedoes : Lansquenet has the same torpedoes as Mogador with the exception being the range which has gone up to 10km AA: 1 twin 37mm 2 twin 13.2mm stock upgraded: 1 twin 37mm 2 twin 13.2mm 2 single 13.2mm 25mm HP: Base : 13400 Upgraded : 16800 comparable to Fletcher but suffers from low stock health Concealment and maneuverability: 7.4km same as zf6 and handles the same except for ruddershift which is 5 seconds Consumables : Short Burst Smoke 6 charges Emergency Engine power 6 charges repair party 3 charges Tier 10: Kersaint one of the t47 class destroyers , kersaint is basically a marceau lite except minus the speed(the lead ship of the t47 class is surcouf and that cannot be used since the sub is more famous than the dd) Guns: same properties as Marceau Torpedoes : Unlike Marceau Kersaint has the same torpedoes as Kleber with the only exception being speed and range as the torpedoes only go 60 knots and travel the farthest at 12km AA: here is where kersaint shines compared to the other French destroyers as she has 4 20mm guns as aa alongside 6 57mm guns in the same mounts that jean bart uses as aa HP: 20200 a bit less than daring Concealment: 7.6km on par with daring Maneuverability : the same as marceau except for the speed which is a paltry 34 knots Consumables : Short Burst Smoke 6 charges Emergency Engine power 6 charges repair party 3 charges Consumable Specs: Repair Party: Identical to British Battleships but has an extremely short action time of 5 seconds and a long reload time of 140 seconds Short Burst Smoke Generator: emission time 15 seconds dispersion time 35 seconds reload time 50 seconds Emergency Engine Power: speed bonus 35% duration 40 secs cooldown 80 secs please leave feedback below pretty please I'm tired of people reading it and then not posting their feedback

I am here to share how I think an italian dd line would go bear in mind the ships wouldnt be as historically accurate with potential torpedo tube increases similar to EU DDs and the Rof on the guns are ahistorical and made up by me . the torpedoes are also the ones from their cruiser counterparts but with range ,damage and speed adjustments Gimmicks High hitpoint pools for their tier HE shells and SAP Standard line Has acess to either exhaust Smoke or Normal smoke Esploratori line Uses emergency engine power instead of engine boost Mostly low detection ranges due to the short lengths of most ships Slow outside of engine boost on most ships and Tier 2: Sella First of the two sella class ships in the tree represents the sella class as completed 1x2 1x1 120mm gun 6 second reload 2x2 533 mm torpedoes Tier 3 :Bettino Ricasoli second of the sella class ships represented represents the modifications done to the sella class same as sella but trades the single mount for another twin mount gun Tier 4 :Sauro gains two triple torpedo tubes instead of twins slight increase in gun Rof to 5.5 seconds Tier 5: Turbine gains more aa,speed and torpedo damage compared to sauro Tier 6 : Folgore gets an increase in gun RoF to 5 seconds and torpedo damage From here it branches off into two distinct lines Similar to German Destroyers. Esploratori Line these destroyers have more guns and higher speed compared to their normal counterparts but suffer from less aa defenses compared to the normal line Tier 7 : Luca Tarigo a Navigatori Class Destroyer that has 3x2 120mm guns gaining an extra turret over folgore RoF slightly increased to 4.8 have the same dpm as Maestrale and Torpedo Damage increased over folgore Tier 8 :Comandante Toscano The first of the Commandanti Medaglie d' Oro Class , She uses 4 5.3 inch guns in single turrets with 6 torpedo launchers 5.3 inch guns have 5 second reload Tier 9 : Comandante Giorgis part of the second group of Commandantis She gains another 5.3 inch gun over Toscano 5.3 inch guns have 5 second reload Tier 10 : Atilio Regolo A Capitani Romani Class esploratori compared to her predecesors she featured increased gun and torpedo armament Similar to paolo emilio but loses a quadruple launcher to have all of them centerline with increased gun Rof to about 7 seconds Standard Line These destroyers can swap between a normal smoke generator and exhaust smoke and have faster firing 120 mm guns Tier 7 : Maestrale RoF on guns goes down to 4.2 seconds same torpedoes as luca tarigo Tier 8 : Oriani Rof goes to 4 seconds and torpedo damage goes up Tier 9 : Artigliere Rof goes to 3.5 seconds and torpedo damage goes up Tier 10 : Carabinere Gains another turret to Artigliere

In the Tech Tree, for 3 of the new German DDs (0.10.3) it indicates - "You can gain early access to this ship by completing a special mission." One would assume that the "German Destroyer Mission 1" is that special mission, though it simply shows a gift container as the final reward. If that is the special mission for getting the early access, they should clarify this rather than make players wonder if that gift is early access for all ships, one ship, or actually something different. I have read through WOWS main pages and googled to find clarification as to what the special mission is/are, or how to access them, but found nothing. One issue with not knowing what you receive by completing "German Destroyer Mission 1" is that one of the sub-missions requires either the new Schultz or new ZF-6. This requires spending at least 1500 doubloons if lucky and even possible, or possibly quite a lot more. - To acquire F. Schultz - Only option is via Random bundles (1500 DBLN each) - Odds should be 1:7 of getting Schultz for each random bundle purchase, but given WG's history with the word "random", it might require buying a couple "random" bundles before having a chance to get it. - To acquire ZF-6 - Must complete the ship in the dockyard. Which cost between 2200 and 8950 DBLN depending on how much you want to accelerate the build. Is there something I am missing? Have they done it this way in the past? Or is the "German Destroyer Mission 1" the special mission they refer to? Early access for the Italian ships seemed a lot simpler. Sorry it took this much to explain, and especially if there is just something I somehow overlooked.

My guess is it has something to do with the fact they don't have citadels? Yes that was a pun, but still a question

I am interested in one of these 3 DDs. Just these 3. Which one do you recommend? Z-46, Östergötland or Jutland?

I'm just getting to the point of trying to think through the new commander skills, and how this might compare to my current DD builds. This is just off the top of my head thinking without really giving the new skills some deep consideration. For those of you that haven't seen the new skills here's the google doc with all the info we currently have. Remember this is all a work in progress, and it hasn't even entered testing yet, so we can expect some tweaks along the way before this goes live. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bgx8ilNzUAp3qMI7Ke_Qtw0359mv1hecZRTjlV5pAKE/htmlview?pru=AAABdG6Ch5M*hyX6M5q-2bLoqDydb2gdrg#gid=0 To get the ball rolling let's look at the standard build 10 point build for pretty much every DD. That would be: -PT or PM -LS -SE -CE With the proposed changes there is more or less nothing different for the first 10 points, with the exception of PT will be changed to "Argus Eyed" and will become a 2 point skill. That means you'll take the new PM (now called "Maintenance Specialist"). Personally, I don't like this as I take PT as my first skill on all ships. Looking at a specific ship line and comparing it to what I currently use. Here's my current USN DD build, a 19 point commander on my Fletcher. This is a fairly common build. -PT -AR, LS -SE, BFT -RL, CE With the new skills I can't make this same build. Here are the problems. First, PT (Argus Eyed) is no longer a one point skill, its a two point skill. Not a big problem if you like PM over PT. However, I like PT, and that makes some real problems recreating this build. I could make the same build, plus PM (Maintenance Specialist), but that would be 22 points, so its not possible (the new limit will be 21 points). What is stupid is that build would only cost 20 points in the current system. Also, the new BFT (Main Battery and AA Specialist) is only -5% to main battery reload instead of the current -10% on BFT. I would have to drop PT (Argus Eyed) and pick up "Consumables Specialist", the same as the current "High Alert" but its only 1 point in the new system instead of the 2 points it is currently. Frankly, I don't like it, as it applies to this build. I think a solution is to make PT (Argus Eyed) a one point skill, and switch the new Consumables Specialist back to 2 points. This post is just to get things started, and to help us think all of this through. I'd like to see what you guys have to say about how this will impact your favorite DD builds. Also, it would be nice to see others do this same discussion for the other ship types in separate topics.

It's the last day of the long 4th of July weekend. All weekend, I have noticed that capital ships and oftens destroyers as well are sitting about 2 squares on the mini map behind the caps. I think this occured in about 8 out of 10 games this weekend. In one game a Vecenzia sailed to towrads the middle of that game with 3 caps in one giant circle. He was told to "get back"! . I noticed later he was complaining that no one was spotting. Ten out of 12 ships were in the outer ring or behind it. My theory is dds have been hammered so much by rocket planes and radar that they are adapting and staying away from caps. However, I also think 80% of all players are now playing for the last 5 minutes. Who can fault them. Their stats are better and 50% of the time that might be able to take one crucial action that they couldn't do if they were did. I've watched Unicum streamers say, I'm looking to kill that guy that gets out of range from his support. Is the new Meta - Only Fools Rush In? I'm I only now noticing this or was this a holiday weekend effect?

I'm confidant this is about the last topic you'd care to hear about or more likely hear more about. I have to believe WOW has lost its way introducing German CV's to a game who hasn't seen an Italian Battleship or Destroyer line. Lines of ships that actually existed in history being pre-empted by a line of exclusively, save one, paper ships simply boggles the mind. Is there an Earth shaking demand for German CV's? Not only are you bringing to life paper ships but you are also endowing them with paper super weapons. Mind you the Germans had a guided missile, of sorts, but it was never launched from a CV. Perhaps that's another little surprise we have to look forward to in the future? To add insult to injury two of the three dominant Navies of WWII are withering on the vine. The USN and IJN are being power creeped into obscurity with only premium ships providing any grace what so ever. The Brits are having issues themselves. I have to assume these are purely business decisions. The NA player numbers is far from huge and I'm sure the number of Italian players is dwarfed by those from Russia. The only reason I'm doing this now is because I failed to include it in the after clan season survey. I felt it didn't really belong there any way.

Gents, What is the best way to get rocket hits on DDs. Conversely, what makes DDs hard to hit with rockets? Hmmm. Maybe I should ask with a different name? Cheers

with the recent update and the future sub update something needs to change for BBs were expected to push and tank but with the current meta were focused way to much we cant react fast enough from the new torps if we dont know the DD is there. so either a limit to DDs or even radar for high tier BBs would be a big help for us if you have nothing constructive to say dont say anything

Hatsuharu and Shyratsuyu, both forgotten by the developers... They are basically downgrades of their torpedo tech tree counterparts. Their stealth torpedo gimmick was removed a long time ago so they have only disadvantages compared to Fubuki and Akatzuki. They both have the same 7.5 second gun reload. Hatsuharu is basically Fubuki but with one less torpedo launcher, fair sine its a gun line right? But they have the same reload and amount of guns. Shyratsuyu has 2x4 torpedo launchers and 5 guns, all have 7.5 sec reload. Akatsuki has 6 guns and 3x3 torpedo launchers. I think it would be fair to give both Hatsuharu and Shyratsuyu a slight reload buff, lowering it to 6.5 or even 6.8 seconds, be it something to keep up with the powercreep of other DDs. Thoughts?

Since I've owned Shimakaze, my go to torpedo option has always been the Type93 mod.3 12km torpedoes. However, the new update has allowed for builds that make every torpedo, including deep water torpedoes, to be seen from 1.8km to 2.25 km. This has made me consider instead running the 20km Type93 torpedoes with Torpedo Acceleration and Torpedo Tubes Modification 1 to create 16km 70 knot torpedoes. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Like them or not, the community is really torn about CVs. I'm on the hate side, but I think i have a legitimate solution on how to keep them in the game, but make them 1) more rewarding 2) Increased danger 3) strategic in way that benefits all classes. This is my gamification of what I learned from watching a youtube video on the Battle of Midway and the struggles the CVs actually faced at the time. 1) Range Currently there is no range restriction. You can get in a squadron and just fly forever until you fire a few times or get shot down. There is no urgency to using the squad and no detriment to going to the wrong location or just flying forever to find that last DD when the rest of your team is dead. Where you fly should matter, and unplanned random discovery flights are unfair to classes that rely on stealth. The ideal distance would be between 14km - 18km depending on the type of plane used / country. This would become a stat that differentiates the carriers. They have stats now, but they all feel about the same. Range +1 km would also be a good captains skill as long as it's a choice between another valuable stat like faster flying or additional plane in a squad in the 4th tier. 2) Invincibility for average intelligence As long as you aren't a complete idiot, staying alive in a CV is really easy for the first 5 minutes minimum, and many matches it's easy to never even feel threatened in an even match. Decisions should have consequences. The range forces the CVs to move forward to deploy a squad (stay with me CV players). The idea that a CV isn't under threat during a battle is not based on anything but a lack of a realistic mechanic that works. 3) Plans instead of Spam CVs don't have 3 fully geared squads ready to go at any given time. Choices are made in advance. It should be at least as time consuming to attach a torpedo to a plane as it is swap between HE and AP. This also increases the value of pre-selecting the right type of plane to suit your current objective. Now, the CVs benefit from DD spotting more than they prevent DDs from being able to spot. Class balance is returning, and DDs are being given a chance to be DDs. Launching ships requires nothing right now and it shouldn't be so boring. When CVs are maneuvering, you aren't launching planes. Ideally, a squad should be taking off into the wind, but I would accept that it has to be moving at a minimum between 12kps and 18kps to give make launching a squad more meaningful. You can't just sit behind the island and spam from your magical deck of 3 ready to launch squads. There should also be time added when an unused ship needs to be stripped down from one use and converted. 4) In real life, explosions aren't an issue you solve with a signal When prepping for a strike, the CV is most vulnerable due to high-explosives being more exposed to shells, fire and shrapnel. This real life danger isn't represented. Shooting a CV feels like shooting a cinder block that operates separate from it's bombardment. CVs should be more susceptible to damage when struck on the deck with a squad being prepped. Maybe you thought having 40 torpedos on the deck that you might use later is save until one gets hit and a chain reaction kills you for littering your deck with explosives. This only works if there is flight setup time, but just adding arbitrary boring time onto the game feels like it would be arbitrary and boring... Call it redundant. Now, you start with a set amount of planes, and you can queue up their equipment set. Best of all, you can make choices. 5) Strategy and consequences Send all 50 at once for a massive attack, but now you have no planes equipped to be a fighter, so you are extra weak if the other CV comes after you. Might want to have 5 dressed out fighters on standby to defend your ship. Might not want to risk everything as you can the attack would be bigger, but not necessarily more ships sunk. That will be the most challenging gameplay balance. What is the incentive to risking more planes? Maybe you need 10 dive bombers and a 10 fighter escort. This is going to really ramp up CV strategy and create a higher skill gap then someone crosstorping using 1 move over and over again to set damage records, without ever being in danger of running out of ships or someone shooting their boat. If you lose a plane, it's gone and there will not be a magic plane building factory in the CV anymore. This might also help with that nightmare scenario when after a tough battle there is a team that has a DD and say a Cruiser both low on health, and the other has a CV that had 100 planes shot down and can now make a few more to kill the Cruiser with a DB and the DD with rockets... make from magic. If the CV stashed a couple away for an emergency, that's great, but he would have to sacrifice more defense or offense throughout if he doesn't utilize all of his planes earlier when they could have tilted the scales. 6) Fighters as spotters Sure, but they run out of gas and have to fly back, which means if you want them up for more than a few seconds, they have to start close to the CV. no more dropping a fighter on A 10 because a ship has terrible detectability by air and can't shoot the fighter down 12km away. This also would ideally remove the dpm types from crapping out a fighter on their way to flying on magic fuel. if you want a fighter, go for it, It will leave from your deck if you have one queued up, and it will probably die, then it's gone forever. Now they matter and aren't just another way to dump on the DDs trying to play. 7) DPM These changes obviously reduce the frequency of attacks, but they allow for bigger and more complex attacks. Fighters on a BB can get their butts kicked by the 10 that came along, but those 10 will probably get shot down. Bigger attack, bigger risk. 8) The dumbest thing The dumbest thing that is effective on this game is loading a plane, taking off, then immediately firing a third of the arms you loaded into the ocean so those planes will be ready faster... I get it. It's a game. But please remove this. This had to be on the list of nonsense you wanted to get out of the game, but ran out of runway to fix. You just sold a bunch of 'ships' for 25k dubloons... for Christmas. Make some runway, we deserve it and the guys that bought the PR paid for it. Best part is it's not a total overhaul. Rather than boost, you have range, you might consider burning range faster in exchange for boost, but the logic is minimal, the CVs gain more character, the DDs get to play the game again and if you suck... (the best part)... we can kill you without having to take ourselves out of the game to do it. 9) The spotter plane Rarely did a fighter plane circle over AA and take it until they died. CVs would send out spotters. They had a big area to cover, usually flew out like bicycle spokes then cut a few degrees and came back. Less likely to be shot down, but less likely to radio back while in fight. Last knows update when the spotters return to the ship.

so I've been playing for four years and took an eight month break to come back and find that CV's have made destroyers completely obsolete. I did my homework and have seen that this has been an issue since the rework just after i stopped playing and has been hot fixed over and over and yet I'm still getting 1 shot by rockets within two minutes of the game starting. if i even look at a flag the wrong way i get 2 fires, broken engine and rudder along with the 3/4ths of my health it hit me for. how is this considered balanced? I know people must get tired of hearing dd players complain but I'm not even a dedicated destroyer player i only have 2 T10 dd's working on my 3rd. i just think there needs to be some compromise, obviously you cant have dds be immune or they go carrier hunting and then that's unbalanced but the game isn't in a healthy spot as it is. this is my first time ever posting a topic, never even commented on one i usually believe in sucking it up and just dealing with it but i really want to know if its just me not being good with dd's and it really isn't that bad, or is this still an issue?

DD wolfpack. 20200106_015124_PJSD012-Shimakaze-1943_15_NE_north.wowsreplay

Hey guys, I'm wondering how you guys think the premium tier 8 dd's stack up in 2019. Mainly interested in the Loyang, Kidd, Cossack or Le Terrible as I already have the Asashio (I love it but I want something a bit more flexible). Could you tell me which one you guys recommend and why? Thx. Ps. I like torps, while it doesn't have to be the main thing of the ship I still want to torp things because it's fun and satisfying.

She is absolutely fab Sure, I added xp boosting camo, flags and so on, but I always do. I have never played through a t8 tech tree ship, as quickly as this, and certainly never, with as much fun. Fantasque is a pure 100% thoroughbred hooligan, on steroids.

So with flak more or less being relagated to long range so carriers can focus on aiming at mid and short range, that seems to leave DDs in a tight spot since you leave AA off until the planes would detect you. And with most DDs, this is less than the range of your flak (assuming you're in a DD that even has long range AA). Am I missing something here?

And people wonder why i just can't always be bothered to put the effort in. They want you to do it there way and right now. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362151742550310914/589914666361159691/20190616_210744_PJSD012-Shimakaze-1943_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

Another member was messaging me about the rework debate recently. In the course of the discussion he mentioned all the buffs DDs had received recently and how nothing will make DD players happy. He listed the BB AP nerf, radar nerf, air detection buff, and so on. I'm not surprised, we hear about these "buffs" all the time. When I told him these weren't actually buffs as DDs didn't get any perceivable increase to their performance, as per the data. He was less than impressed. Let's take a look at the what the numbers are. We'll start with the BB AP nerf that was supposed to be a massive buff to DDs (claims that DDs could now yolo BBs with no consequence). The data I'll be using is form the Maple Syrup stat site, and all data is for the NA server. I'll include a link at the end of this post. For those that don't already know Maple Syrup gathers data from the WoWs API, that is data WG makes publicly available. This data is straight from WG, and its 100% accurate. With that out of the way, let's get back to the BB AP nerf. When this change went live I checked the data and saw no increase in DD survival, or average damage. In fact, the first week the change went live DD stats dropped. That didn't make sense to me. I don't know if DDs just had a particularly bad week or if DDs had a really good week the week before. I decided to go back four weeks before and four weeks after the change to find the averages to remove the normal fluctuation in the data week to week. Now the data made more sense, DDs had received a buff after all, and the data showed it. Four Week Averages For High Tier DDs Before and After BB AP Nerf, High Tier (T7-T10) Survival Rate Damage Before Change 29.38% 36,732 After Change 29.53% 37,339 Difference +0.15 +607 Percentage Increase +0.5% +1.6% As you can see DDs did get a buff, technically speaking. So that's one half of one percent increase in survival, and a little over one and half percent increase in damage. I think it's fair to say DDs didn't actually get any buff at all. Okay, let's look at the data during the rework, not just for DDs, but all ships types. The data is in averages before and after the rework (The before data is an average for two weeks before the rework 1/19-1/26, the after numbers are an average from the start of the rework on to the latest data from Maple Syrup 2/9-4/27, the week the rework dropped had a split of before and after data so it was excluded from the averages). During this period there was the reworked CVs, radar changes, air detection buff and other nerfs to CVs to help DDs. Here are the numbers: Average Damage by Ship Type, High Tier (T7-T10) BB CA/CL CV DD Before Rework 63,554 52,589 67,725 37,731 After Rework 62,819 51,248 65,331 35,709 Change In % -1.16% -2.55% -3.53% -5.36% You can see all ships are averaging less damage. DDs have biggest drop. I wouldn't call it massive, but DDs already had the lowest average damage. Next, survival rates. Average Survival By Ship Type, High Tier (T7-T10) BB CA/CL CV DD Before Rework 34.53% 31.38% 66.78% 29.01% After Rework 33.84% 30.69% 72.90% 27.81% Change in % -2.01% -2.17% +9.17% -4.13% All ships except CVs have a lower survival rate. DDs have the biggest drop again. Place your bets now if you think this is going to be a trend. Average XP BY Ship Type, High Tier (T7-T10) BB CA/CL CV DD Before Rework 1437 1458 1430 1425 After Rework 1491 1502 1760 1424 Change in % +3.76% +3.07% +23.08% -0.01% All ships get an increase in XP, except DDs. Look at that increase for CVs. Average Games Played Per Week By Ship Type, High Tier (T7-T10) BB CA/CL CV DD Before Rework 401,368 363,032 16,942 264,596 After Rework 298,131 310,744 46,842 180,671 Change in % -25.72% -14.40% +176.48% -31.72% As we can see there is a disproportionate change in games played between the increase in CV play and decrease in all other ships, meaning, the decrease isn't only players playing CVs more now, its players playing less games. Now, I'm not making any claims about a drop in population outside the normal fluctuation throughout the year. The point is to show it is DDs that are disproportionately played less than the other surface ships. Its no surprise given the big changes in DD play in the CV heavy meta. The point of all of this isn't make it sound like its the end of the world for DDs, because it not. The point is to show all of the so-called "buffs" were only to prevent DD stats from dropping even farther. I hope this helps everyone to have a better understand of the numbers as move forward in our discussions. Good luck out there. Link to Maple Syrup site: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/index.html For those that like pictures, line charts tracking the data.

Howdy salts, My interest in the game has now waned to the point of perhaps no return. I never have liked cv's in this game from the very beginning, but it was ok because only 10-25% of matches had a cv. Cv's spelled the end of traditional surface warfare in reality and it has done the same to this game for me and more than a few others. At least limit cv's to one a side. One match after the tenth battle in a row with 2 cv's I quit the match out of frustration. Please WG 1 cv per team across all tiers. Not to mention the fact that cv's have changed the game meta entirely to a passive blobfest in most cases. Argh!

Who else is tired of being perma-spotted (despite the air conceal buff), perma-set on fire, perma-flooded, and literally everything else that comes with not being able to punish CV's. I for one have had a solid handful of fun games since the CV update came out, most of which involved games where there weren't Cvs. DDs don't push because they can't. Because of that everyone else doesn't push. BB's that sit at the back have all the AA power (go figure). Games that aren't decisively decided, come down to a few CV players at the end of the match and a few helpless souls that still have some health that wait it out until the enemy CVs die. The game got stale since ranked ended, the one last safe haven for this game away from the monotony.