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Found 116 results

  1. Impitoyable_5929_x

    The number of DDs in a match

    At first, I am open to criticizing opinions. Does anyone think there should be a restriction of DD numbers in a single match (such as that of CV)? I've recently gone through so many games that end very fast or are totally irreversible just because of the rapid evaporation of DDs at the beginning, where most other ships can't have that much fun and that many credits they may have. It seems that the more the difference in DDs' performance in the game, the more likely it is to end in 10 minutes, while short and sleepy games should not be the essence of WOWS. Landslide victories aren't interesting at all. As cruisers (of all types) are still relatively rare due to Dead Eye's influence, causing DDs to emerge, however, it's inevitable DDs decide the direction of the whole game, similar to CV's role. Since the number of CVs are restricted, IMHO there is thus supposed to be some restrictions on DDs as well (e.g., ≤ 3 DDs in T8+ matches of dominance; ≤ 2 DDs in standard T8+ matches).
  2. FairWindsFollowingSeas

    ZF-6: A Solid Dockyard DD

    Tier 9 Premium German Destroyer ZF-6 TL;DR: It's a solid destroyer definitely worth adding to your port, I wouldn't recommend whaling it. The cheapest way to get it is by purchasing a starter pack then grinding through the missions. Pros: - German HE shells have great penetration (32mm). - The AP shells have high alpha (2,950) and have improved ricochet angles. - Access to Main Battery Reload Booster consumable, which cuts your reload in half for 15 seconds (4 charges base). - Torpedoes have high alpha damage (18,400), and travel fast (75 knots). - Access to Defensive AA Fire consumable (3 charges base). - Competitive concealment (5.8 km surface & 2.6 km air detection with full concealment build). Cons: - 17,000 hit points at Tier 9 is significantly lower than the other German destroyers, average compared to destroyers of different nations. - German HE shells have anemic alpha (1,450). - Turret traverse is sluggish (18 seconds for 180 degrees). - Torpedoes only go 8 kilometers, limiting opportunities to fire from stealth. - AA defense is lackluster, even with Defensive AA Fire consumable active. - Standard German smokes don't last very long & only have 3 charges base. - 35 knots top speed is average. Overall, I really enjoy bringing this ship into battle, and if you are a destroyer player, you will find this DD to be rewarding to play. ZF-6 gives up hydro for the ability to slot Main Battery Reload Booster & Defensive AA Fire consumables. The full-build 5.8 km concealment is comfortable & workable, but not best in class. 17,000 hit points (20,150 with Survivability Expert) is average. The 5 x 128mm guns have sluggish rotation speed but a 4 second reload base (3.3 seconds with both MB&AAS captain skill & MBM3 ship module), and with the reload booster active that gets cut in half for 15 seconds. The torpedoes share the same stats as Le Fantasque/Mogador/Kleber's fish, and using them on the ZF-6 reminds me of playing F3 Yugumo/Shimakaze; carefully lining up strikes on capital ships. The French destroyers are extremely fast & can easily pull off yolo torps, whereas this German DD is not nearly as fast (35 knots). The Defensive AA Fire consumable is nice to have, but in all honesty, it doesn't do too much. You have to hope the squadron hits flak (3 bursts) because the continuous AA DPS isn't too great. The standard German smoke screens dissipate quickly (73 seconds) and only have 3 charges base; but if you've played the German tech-tree destroyers you are probably familiar with them. The engine boost is standard non-French +8%. Considering this ship has Main Battery Reload, I went with a gun-focused build. Here is my current module build on this ship: - Main Armaments Mod 1 - Engine Boost Mod 1 (if you don't have that Engine Room Protection works just as well) - Torp Tubes Mod 1 (brings the torpedo speed up to 79 knots) - Propulsion Mod 1 - Concealment Systems Mod 1 - Main Battery Mod 3 And my captain: Gunther Lütjens works best on this destroyer, with his in-game talents & improved Preventative Maintenance and Grease the Gears, however I am using my old Reinhard von Jütland commander with the improved Consumables Specialist skill (and hasn't had a home ship since the captain rework). The improved Consumable Specialist cuts Main Battery Reload & Defensive AA Fire consumables reload down by 12.5%. My last 3 points I will probably put into Superintendent, for the additional smoke/reload booster/defensive AA. I do use the torpedoes often, however they reload in 90 seconds base & I don't think the 9 second decrease in torpedo reload speed is worth the 3 points. I wrote this review of ZF-6 because I haven't seen many people reviewing it. All in all it is a solid destroyer and definitely worth adding to your port, although I wouldn't recommend whaling it unless you really need the coal/steel. - Fair winds and following seas!
  3. Isso foi e é um ABSURDO!fui localizado nos primeiros 40s de jogo! e destruido Pelo Minessota aos 55 anos do inicio da partida. Que acreditem,nao tinha porta avioes! se isso nao e algum tipo de HACK,nao sei o que e!? ja é a segunda vez que acontece comigo,e olha so,eu estava de DD,isso mesmo! minha deteccao e de 6,5 km..bem invisivel....e adivinha so: eu nem vi o que me acertou e fui destruido sem ter oportunidade de jogar. contatei o suporte e eles vieram com um papo de visiblidade e taxa de ocultacao e blablabla..o que nem tem logica,pois ,o mesmo nao acontece comigo nunca! quero so ver quais serao as explicacoes para isso que vcs colocaram aqui. e estarei postando aqui esses tipos de absurdos,inclusive os tiros atravessarem montanhas,que parece que voltou a acontecer como era na verso 5 do jogo.
  4. Currently there are 3 ~ 4.5 Italian DDs in the game. ( depending on how pedantic one is ) Tier 3 Pan EU - Romulus / Spica class Tier 6 Italian - Leone / Leone class ( more of a "light cruiser" ) Tier 9 Italian - Paolo Emilio / Capitani Romani class ( is a light cruiser, technically ) Tier 9 Soviet* - Tashkent ( Italian in mostly all but armament ) Tier 6 Soviet** - Gnevny / Project 7 ( built by USSR with Italian assistance) So here comes the speculative part: Tier 2 ~ 4 , armed with 76 mm, 100 mm or 102 mm guns and 450mm torpedoes Tier 4 ~ 7 armed with 120 mm guns and 533 mm torpedoes Tier 7 ~ 10 armed with 135 mm and 533 mm torpedoes Updated List: Tier 2 Rosolino Pilo / Generali class ( "full speed smoke" + "standard speed boost" +8% up to tier 5 ) Tier 3 Curatone class Tier 4 Sella class Tier 5 Sauro / Turbine class ( Euro think of the memes and "torpedo beats"... ) Tier 6 Freccia / Folgore class ( starting tier 6, will need +30% engine boost for ~60 sec. and "full speed smoke" ) Tier 7 Maestrale / Oriani / Soldati class ( will have to be Soldati "2nd batch"/ 5 gun armed ones ) Tier 8 Comendate Medaglie d'Oro class ( 2nd batch of 5 gun armed ships or "fictional" torpedo armament or both ) Tier 9 Impetuoso class with "fictional armament" or d'Oro derived design ( fictional in a sense of DP 135mm guns ) Tier 10 Impetuoso class with "fictional armament" or d'Oro derived design ( fictional in a sense of DP 135mm guns ) Original Tier List Disclaimer: All of the information above is pure speculation, based on publicly available information and is NOT a "financial advice". Please read this "with a giant grain freighter load of salt".
  5. warheart1992

    Z-31 first impressions

    So, I got this week my hands on Z-31 and decided to run it through it's paces to see whether all the hate by many was warranted. Here's a very small sample, 10 battles. It's nowhere near a completely objective indicator on whether the ship is bad but I believe it would be a decent basis for some first impressions. The stats: Note the 71% accuracy on main battery and 2% on torpedoes. The Commander (10 points): First of all let's get the matchmaking I got out of the way. 4 tier IX battles, 3 tier VII, 3 tier VIII. Not particularly good, but you gotta learn to make do. The good: sizable HP. a part of the midsection is 25mm, shattering some DD HE, though this is a double edged knife when it comes to CA AP. Built in IFHE means you can penetrate with HE any ship on your MM bracket. improved ricochet angles are always welcome in AP. the accuracy is impressive. If you have Katori or Yubari with the special Upgrade it comes pretty close. You can pretty much pick which section of a ship you want to hit. The bad: Relatively bad reload time on main battery. Relatively bad reload time on torpedoes Torpedoes do mediocre damage. Ship is somewhat clumsy and slow. Okayish concealment, nothing too good but not unworkable. The oh so very ugly: Horrendous HE. Horrendous torpedo speed. Horrendous smoke duration. ONLY DAMAGE CONTROL AND SMOKE. NO ENGINE BOOST FOR YOU. What AA? So, is the ship a good one? Hell no. Is it bad? Damn right. Is it part of an effort to get you to spend some FXP to get the next, hopefully better tier? Most likely. Is it warranted all the hate it gets from absolutely everyone, including former and current CCs? Nope. The ship is bad but workable. The AP can help pad your damage numbers when you get some broadsides or nice juicy BB superstructures. You are horribly outmatched by pretty much any DD, but the silver lining is if you know how to play with AP and angles you can get penetrations which hurt and can dissuade them from pursuing you. Other than that you are free meat. The torpedoes exist just to launch in the hopes of getting any random hit. But the worst issue with the ship is how to get the most out of it you sacrifice your role as a DD to a large extent. The greatest danger to a DD is most of the time another DD, and Z-31 simply can't do anything to influence decisively these encounters. Other ships sacrifice their role as DDs too, like the French or Soviet open water gunboats. But they can still play support to a friendly DD and help secure caps or lock down flanks. The problem I see is that I am a relatively good DD player and had to put quite a bit of effort to get Z-31 to work respectably. Z-31 and am afraid the line in general in the hands of the average player will simply feel like a horrible joke played by WG. Possible improvements: Though obviously I doubt the ship will be touched as it looks like a gatekeeper along with G.J Maerker for the decent tier IX and X ones, aside from an obvious buff to reload time, maybe they could get a choice between the long range slow torpedoes, and fast with lower range that they had initially. At least that could give a tool in close encounters with DDs or allow you to drop them at a smokescreen and hope of actually hitting something. Thanks for reading, and hey, maybe give Z-31 another shot with a different mindset, it might make the experience less bad. Tl;dr What Wargaming did was add the niche gameplay equivalent of something like Neustrashimy or Friesland on a tech tree line. The concept is pretty alien to most and it takes experience to get some results out of it.
  6. Adding a visual to @vikingno2 thread here... Here I present a double CV match (REPLAY) in where I am playing DD... Everything was great, exciting, and everyone is having fun like before the current (0.8.0 patch) CV... At the beginning of the 8 min mark (Yes I am giving you timestamps but not much details)... The match just changes to the WOWS version of WOWP... From that case on... We were treated to the exact reason CVs are just adding to the relationship strain with the other surface ship... The replay... 20210504_221327_PJSD025-True-Kamikaze_41_Conquest.wowsreplay If I were to put my narrative on the situation... From the 8th min on down, it was worse then seeing two BBs looking like old grandpas throwing stones at each other's yard... This descriptor, best describes the narrative I live ATM compared to the start of the match, up to the 8 min mark. It complete halted every feel good emotion everyone felt... Oh I forgot the cherry on top... CV driver "entitlement." expressed by near the end of the game in chat... After I reviewed the replay, I have to disagree with you final analysis... Enjoy WG's creation boys... The concept is getting expanded to other surface ships... I still ask myself the basic human question allowed in the forums in my behalf.... WHY? Full Disclosure; I am not against the inclusion of CVs... I do believe they belong in the game in some way shape or form.. I disagree with the current manifestation, monstrosity creation of the CV class in the game currently... It is causing a rift in the relationship with other vessels in a given match.
  7. Nightlock_

    Best Torp Botes

    Hey Guys, I'm a relatively new DD player and i like being a torpedo boat, so naturally i tried IJN, im up to the Isokaze, and its great, I love it. I really like the line but i hear from every single person that the IJN dds are shiz after the nerfs to torp stealth and the guns, and tell me that ijn dds in general are crap, They say that shima is worst T10 dd in the game, and now i dont know if i really want to play through the IJN line anymore. I honestly dont care about guns, (i don't know how to use them without being nuked ;) because i dont use them that often, so what would you guys say?. Also how effective is the akizuki line at knife fighting and how is the manuevrability and concealment on them??
  8. The Netherlands is getting it's own tech tree! I have to start all over again coming up with an alternative line split for Pan-European destroyers! For those readers out there who remember my last attempt to create a 2nd branch of Destroyers for Europe, recall that my purpose was to get Dutch destroyers shoehorned into a cohesive line without resorting to using overtly fake ships or the Holland-class. It wasn't my best work IMO, but I do believe it was cohesive with the information I had at the time. Now though, things have changed. Not only will The Netherlands be a real boy Tech Tree, but I now have more information on possible replacements for those gaps, including a precious tier X candidate! Big h/t to @Kingpin61 whose own work on the Pan European lines is highly anticipated by yours truly! First thing's first though, a little preface. As I had mentioned in the other thread, the main reason I used the Dutch as a starting point was because they would have similarities in capability to the Swedish DDs we already have in game. While still be unique enough to warrant a distinctive playstyle change. I had also mentioned that outside of Sweden, there wasn't really any other nation that could create a full (or nearly) full line of ships in a similar manner. Well... that too has changed. Enter; Spain. Now, tobefaaaaaair... Spain in theory! might, and I do stress might have enough designs and real ships to warrant becoming it's own nation in WoWs someday as well. Spain is the only other Major/Minor navy to have any significant amounts of ships of all relevant classes but at least insofar as I can see, there are still gaps that need to and can be filled, so off to Europe they go. So, the important question to you is "whell TW, what changed from last time"? Let's find out! So immediately, we have a problem: Do we start at tier II or do we branch off from the Swedish line somewhere? Whelp, I'm going to leave that up to you dear reader! The following are 3 2 different candidates for tier II destroyer. They are: (Spain) Alsedo-class (Greece) Aetos-class Really the only thing that has changed here is me dropping the Triglav-class torpedo boats from Yugoslavia (ex. Italian). If you want more background information on the ships, check out the old post. Now then, tier III presents an... interesting possibility. One the one hand we have my original suggestion of the Norwegian Gyller, one of the excellent Sleipner-class torpedo boats seen here: The other option could be the Spanish (again ex. Italian) destroyer Huesca: This ship was an old "esploratori" DL type DD from WWI that was basically gifted to the Nationalists during the Civil War. Despite their age and poor condition, the Spanish, for lack of anything better got the most out of them. Armament would consist of 5x1 4" guns and 2x2 18" torpedoes which is a modest step up from the previous tier, despite being a much larger ship. What makes this an intriguing alternative is the fact that it has the potential to skew into a 3rd line of European DDs! One based on Italian and French designs that would incorporate a fair bit of small nations. However, given the distinctively British nature of the designs we're working with, it isn't the most natural choice. Tier IV would continue in a similar manner to the previous lineup: (Norway) Ålesund-class Again, a departure from the British derived designs that will come later, but should still make for a perfectly cromulent option. Tier V comes with a few different-but-not-really options here. Two Spanish, one Portuguese! You can take your pick of the Almirante Antequera-class, a derivative of the excellent Churucca-class: The similar, and anachronistic Álava-class: Or the Portuguese Douro-class: The main difference between these ships primarily comes down to displacement and torpedo tubes carried (either 2 sets of 3 or 4 depending on the class). The Churucca's based on the Scott-class DL of WWI vintage were considered one of, if not the best destroyer in the world at the time, whereas the Douro's were based on a similar but slightly newer Ambuscade design. Otherwise both had 4x1 4.7" QF guns, in the traditional A-B-X-Y positions, some AA, some DCR and DCTs mounted and capable of 36kts. That being said, both the Álava and Douro do have some, rather unique histories that could count against their inclusion into the Pan European line altogether. With Álava, it simply comes down to the fact that she was built in the 1950s! Especially when you consider that she was already a repeat of the Almirante Antequera-class, would make her redundant. Douro is a bit more interesting. The first 2 ships of the class being built for Portugal got sold to Colombia and entered service as the Antioquia-class, so these ships could instead end up in the LATAM dd line, again making it's European counterpart theoretically redundant. Tier VI would naturally follow as the original Churucca-class: The only real difference here is the 5th 4.7" guns mounted amidships. Not the most exciting ship, and truthfully it's a ship that also falls into the redundant trap as the Argentine Navy also used the ship as the Cervantes-class and likely would make an appearance in the LATAM dd line. This means we'll need to find an alternative just in case. And wouldn't you know it! I just happen to have one! (Greece) Vasilefs Georgios I-class These ships were basically just G-class destroyers built for Greece... but fitted for German 12.7cm guns and AAA. Two ships were completed, with the lead ship actually being attacked, scuttled, raised and repaired, sent back out under a German flag and then sunk in 1943! This is a really interesting DD and one that dovetails well with the fact that the Spanish also use German AA guns on their older British derived warships. And since the G-class is already well established in the game, this is almost a no-brainer to add to our line. Almost. Because, if we were interested in keeping with our Spanish ships at tier VI, might I interest you in this instead: What you are looking at is a drawing of Project 113. A design from the mid 1930's for a very high speed torpedo destroyer. Capable of 38kts and armed with 2x2 now 4.7" guns and 2x5(!) TTs. Now, it should be known that these may or may not be DP main guns, and her estimated displacement was only around 1600 tonnes. But even so, I could easily see this ship climb higher on torpedo strength alone and/or with some kind of refit. Bearing that in mind, I'd prefer the real Greek ship to the paper Spanish one but this ship could work up at tier VII. Speaking of which... (Poland) Grom/ Huragan-class Yup, this again. Only now I don't really have the N-class ship to fall back on. That being said, there is still one optional LL DD that I can theoretically call upon: (Yugoslavia) Kotor-class These were Ex- W-class ships handed over to the Yugoslavs in the mid 1950s. The main armament was still just 4x1 4.7" guns but in high(er) angle mounts, so theoretically it could shoot at aircraft? It also gets 2x4 torpedoes and the usual western AAA compliment. Not a bad ship in and of itself, but when you start to compare it to the Proj. 113 above, suddenly moving that up a tier starts to make much more sense. And that's still 3 guns less than Grom! However tier VII shapes up, mercifully tiers VIII-X are relatively straightforward! And are all paper(ish). Starting with tier VIII: Welcome readers, to Project 115. A large, gunboat DD that is essentially the inverse of what 113 was. Here, instead of getting 4 guns and 10 torpedoes, you get double the guns and half the torpedoes! Top speed was supposed to be 37 kts and around 2600 tonnes of displacement. These should be the exact same mountings as on 113, just more. Truth be told, having the 113 in the lineup, even as an alternate is difficult to see when confronted with Spain's high tier ships. They are going to be large, gunboat-y types with more limited torpedo armament, so even if 113 was in somewhere it'd be a massive shift in playstyle which is why I'd be reluctant to put it in in place of other ships, especially other existing ones. As for tier IX: Good ol' Project 155. I.E: what the Oquendo-class was originally supposed to be... except not quite. The drawing you see above is her from the 1940's with 8x2 10.5cm guns of German design. Later these were changed to a new 4.7" gun in a fully enclosed, fully DP mounting developed in Spain. Still 8x2 and still the odd torpedo arrangement you see above. I also had this in my original submission and it is still the only non Fletcher option for European destroyers thus far. And finally, we get to the end with: This rather attractive looking design is Project 148A. (Yes there was a just 148 version, I'll get to that). This ship was based on the hull design of the Mogador-class, which sounds strange until you realize that copying designs from the French during the war was a rather 'in vogue' thing to do in Spain. After all, the Oquendo's hull is based on the Le Hardi-class. Anyway, the ship is armed with the same automatic, DP twin mounts as the Oquendos but she does get more torpedoes (4x2, two on either side of the beam). By contrast the original earlier design (the 148) had the older mounts of the 115, and 2x4 TTs on the centerline (maybe?). It's also unclear if that ship was based on Mogador or not, but it's this ship that we have design schematics and blueprints for so that's what we're using. Overall, Spain has a pretty solid line up of ships and with a little help from some friends, a perfectly cromulent alternative line up for the European tree. Interestingly enough, this may not even be the whole story! As I mentioned, the long, drawn out development cycle of the Oquendo-class lends itself to premiumification, as does (in my opinion) the Proj. 113 as a fun torpedo answer to the Swedish side of the tree! Then there's the Italians, with whom we know quite a bit about their plans for large capital ships and cruisers but have yet to find any information pertaining to whether or not Italian derived DDs were ever on the table. I'd sure love to find out though! As always, comments and suggestions are welcome! Now, about those Dutch destroyers...
  9. 4 months ago 2 ships which were the first steel ships went up for coal as announced 6 months before that (Nuet and Flint). Flint got nerfed to the ground in the captain reboot so they might as well as put it up for credits but that is besides the question. What happened to the T9 DD Black? I spent the better part of 2020 saving up coal for these ships and only 2 of them were delivered. Did I miss an official statement about the Black somewhere?
  10. Cossack is a stealthy British gunship destroyer armed with eight 120mm/45 naval rifles and a single bank of four, high-tier torpedoes. She is defined by her good concealment values and awkward firing arcs. Cossack also has access to the Engine Boost consumable while maintaining improved British acceleration and energy preservation. Game play wise, Cossack is very similar to Lightning with an overlap in consumables and commander skill choices. Wargaming has set her price tag at 9,600 doubloons. This is the second Tribal-class destroyer introduced into World of Warships following the release of HMCS Haida earlier this year. She is less remarkable than her sister-ship but that's largely owing to the unforgiving environment in which she plays. Cossack contends with being up-tiered more often than her Canadian counterpart and higher tiered matches are far more radar intensive. Moreover, at tier VII Haida has a defined role -- she's a lolibote-molester. This role is generally lacking among the other tin-cans at tier VII which makes Haida stand out. Cossack doesn't share this same kind of defined specialty. She's more of a generalist scout or gunship -- roles that are replicated by other destroyers at her tier. Thus, Cossack is a workhorse, one gunship among many. She gets the job done in a tough environment which is worth noting, though she is not deserving of any acclaim in this regard. PROS Good DPM performance on her guns and excellent chance at starting fires. Powerful torpedoes for a gunship which may launched individually. Improved engine performance with increased acceleration and energy preservation in a turn while also having access to the Engine Boost consumable. Ridiculous rate of turn, throwing herself about at almost 9.0º/s! Good concealment with a surface detection as low as 5.48km. Access to a long-lasting British Hydroacoustic Search consumable. CONS Poor fire angles on all weapons. Terrible gun ballistics -- worse than American 127mm/38s. Limited to a single torpedo launcher. Her anti-aircraft firepower is effectively non-existent. Poor quality Smoke Generator consumable with short emission time and duration. Overview Skill Floor: Simple / Casual / Challenging / Difficult Skill Ceiling: Low / Moderate / High / Extreme Cossack is not a forgiving ship to play. For a novice player, she has many strikes against her. She struggles to do damage, hamstrung with restrictive fire sectors on all of her weapons and poor performing guns. A deep skill build is necessary to allow her to do direct damage with her artillery against larger opponents and the range of targets she can engage is limited. Having a single torpedo launcher does her no favours either. She is at her best at what amounts to point-blank ranges. At high tiers this is a range where you will get killed in short order for making a mistake. Cossack has the speed, stealth and agility enough to make her attractive to a veteran but her engagement range, optimized for short-distances and limited attack power are a severe mark against her carry potential. Still, she has a diverse toolkit that will earn her some devoted supporters. – One of, if not the worst at its tier. This is a pronounced weakness. – Middle of the pack at its tier. Not terrible, but not terribly good either. – Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer. – No other ship at its tier does this as well as this ship. Cossack's damage output and durability are best described as average. While she does have her strong points, a combination of drawbacks with her guns keeps Cossac from outperforming her peers. Her low hit point total similarly holds her back. She gets a rating in both categories. Her anti aircraft firepower is virtually non-existent and she earns a evaluation as a result. It's arguably worse than the IJN torpedo boats which is saying something. Where Cossack stands apart truly is her agility and stealth. She takes primacy from Lightning in terms of flexibility and speed. It's a closer contest for Vision Control, but she wins out against Loyang. She's the in both categories among tier VIII destroyers. Options Cossack's options are almost all standard for a British destroyer. Cossack like (new) British destroyers cannot make use of the Propulsion Modification 2 upgrade as she already has an improved version built in. Consumables Cossack's Damage Control Party is standard for a destroyer. It has unlimited charges, a 60s/40s reset timer and a 5s active period. Cossack uses a British destroyer Smoke Generator. This has 5 charges base and a 90s/70s reset timer (it's not just you, that number is stupid-weird). It emits smoke for 10s and each cloud lasts for 40s. Unlike other (new) British destroyers, Cossack has access to Engine Boost. This is a standard destroyer-version of the consumable providing an 8% speed increase with 2 charges base, an 180s/120s reset timer and a 120s active period. Cossack uses a British destroyer Hydroacoustic Search. This has 2 charges base, a 180s/120s reset timer and a 180s active period. It detects torpedoes and ships at a range of 3.00km. Upgrades Cossack should equip Magazine Modification 1 into its first upgrade slot. If you like to live dangerously, then Main Armaments Modification 1 is fine. In your second slot, the special upgrade, Hydroacoustic Search Modification 1 is optimal. If you do not have access to it, then the next upgrade you should reach for is the special upgrade Engine Boost Modification 1. If you're lacking that, then default to Propulsion Modification 1. Aiming System Modification 1 is optimal for slot 3. The only reasonable choice in your fourth slot is Steering Gears Modification 2. Similarly, the only reasonable choice in your fifth slot is Concealment Modification 1. Camouflage Cossack comes with Type 10 Camouflage. For 2,000 doubloons you may purchase Royal Navy - Cossack as a cosmetic swap. Both camouflages provide: 50% bonus experience gains 10% reduction to maintenance costs 3% reduction in surface detection 4% reduction in enemy accuracy. Cossack comes with Type 10 Camouflage in mottled grey. I personally think she looks prettier in Royal Navy - Cossack in green, black and grey, but that's only for players with deep pockets. Firepower Main Battery: Eight 120mm/45 guns in 4x2 turrets in an A-B-X-Y superfiring configuration. Torpedoes: Four torpedo tubes in a 1×4 launcher mounted amidships. The 120mm/45s that Cossack uses for her main batteries have a lot of problems at tier VIII. While perfectly serviceable at tier VII with ships like Jervis and Gadjah Mada, against the upgraded opposition faced at higher tiers they're nowhere near as competitive on a per-gun basis. This is largely owing to penetration issues due to gun caliber but there are other things to remark. They have a modest rate of fire, damage per shell and poor ballistics. The mountings on HMS Cossack are poorly situated with limited fire arcs and a lackluster traverse rate. Their only real strength is a high fire chance per shell. Her saving grace is that she has a lot of guns -- quantity has quality all of its own. However, the competition is fierce at tier VIII and even armed with eight rifles Cossack struggles finding the edge she needs. Destroyer AP shells are highly circumstantial in their utility. Most simply do not have the penetration or damage output to make them worth chancing the risk of a bounce using except in specific circumstances. Still, when a broadside is offered, switching to AP provides a much improved damage increase -- especially if your target is already burning from fires set. HMS Cossack's poor penetration values limit the range at which she can make these exchanges successfully, with her ability to citadel enemy cruisers falling off at 4km and her ability to reliably penetrate the extremities of battleships dropping off between 9km and 11km.1 Cossack's HE damage potential looks impressive, though it's important to cross reference it with her penetration values. The chart on the right shows the armour value the respective guns can best while the extremity armour on the bottom lists the prevalence of different armour types for the bow and stern. The number in brackets is the (current as of 0.7.9) number of ships with these armour values. There is a long list of targets she is incapable of damaging directly which will necessitate her making the attempt with AP shells instead. The arcs of fire on A and Y turret are terrible, contrasting the excellent arcs on B and X. On top of this, B-turret may rotate 360º which facilitates keeping it engaged even while Cossack manoeuvres. It's thus very easy to keep six guns on target most of the time but especially difficult to keep all eight firing. Bringing all eight guns to bear makes her an easy and predictable target due to the limited fields of fire on her foremost and rearmost turrets. Sacrificing a turret makes Cossack's gunnery no better than a tier VII destroyer. Cossack doesn't have the DPM advantage to be able to best contemporary gunship destroyers. The race is very close. Once you factor in the hit point totals and detection consumables, the margins get even smaller. Against anything higher tier, Cossack comes out the worse for it. This said, Cossack does have the muscle to bully anything smaller than herself short of HMCS Haida. She can play the role of a destroyer hunter provided she can ensure the detection, hit point and DPM advantage, but she has nowhere near the primacy in these categories at her tier. Against larger vessels, Cossack's guns are a mixed bag. Her ability to deal direct damage is compromised with her poor penetration values but she's an excellent fire starter. Note that this is largely owing to volume and accuracy of fire -- Cossack must be cycling all eight of her guns onto a target and landing with most of her hits to be a credible threat this way. Where Cossack truly excels is her potential to set fires. This is especially true of she eschews the use of IFHE in her commander skill build and elects to just focus on Demolition Expert instead. While this is unlikely to ever give a hale and healthy cruiser pause, it is very effective against battleships. Note, in practice these values are approximately halved when striking ships and represent only the raw fire starting potential. Thus, against a Montana, Cossack with a DE build could expect to set about 4 to 5 fires per minute. Be warned, though, the efficiency of focusing on fires leaves a lot to RNG. Cossack's performance will not be consistent. The final issue facing Cossack's gunnery is one of range and detection. She has adequate reach but she suffers from horrible ballistics. British 120mm/45 guns have worse shell arcs than American 127mm/38s. Cossack has similar gunnery challenges to Loyang, Hsienyang, Kidd and Benson without their fast rate of fire to facilitate aim correction. Cossack is greatly endangered by the prevalence of Surveillance Radar within her matchmaking tier where her short engagement range is more likely to bring her within reach of this consumable. Furthermore, her Smoke Generator does not allow for long bouts of gunnery within the safety of concealment. Cossack must contend with much of her gunnery being done while she is vulnerable to return fire if she cannot make use of island cover. Thus, Cossack must be opportunistic. Whatever ability she has to bully other destroyers falls away as she faces same or higher tiered opponents. Her guns can terrorize lower tiered vessels, including battleships but they lack the caliber needed when facing higher tiers. Throw in the usual challenges of radar in this matchmaking spread and a pattern emerges: The power and flexibility of Cossack's guns varies considerably upon the hand which she's dealt by Matchmaking. Cossack's torpedo launchers have much better rearward arcs than forward. Like her guns, Cossack is going to have to give up her full broadside to be able to fire her torpedoes at a target. Cossack's torpedoes are decent individually, but she has too few of them and bad firing arcs to boot. Cossack has HMS Daring's torpedoes but at tier VIII instead of tier X, which looks nice on paper but that single launcher holds her back. The saving grace of Cossack's torpedo armament is her ability to fire them one at a time. While getting good accuracy with single-launch torpedoes is locked behind a skill wall, once mastered it helps greatly with making up for the lack tubes. For a gunship, Cossack has better individual torpedoes than those found on the Soviet, American or German destroyers. However, like with her guns, she places a distant second to Akizuki, lacking both striking power and being unable to keep up with her damage output Furthermore, Cossack's individually more powerful torpedoes in no way makes up for having only one launcher. Like Cossack's guns, her torpedoes perform much better when she's top tier than bottom. Their 10km range is fairly standard (and an improvement on the 8km on Lightning's), however as Surveillance Radar becomes more and more prominent in higher tiers, this reach just doesn't provide the same level of safety. Ideally, a player should be able to combine Cossack's torpedoes with her excellent fire setting to stack damage over time effects on a given target. In practice, this is much easier said than done. Their limited arcs makes finding opportunities to use them difficult, especially in a pinch. When the stars align (or skill prevails), Cossack can doom an enemy vessel in short order by overtaxing their Damage Control Party between fires and floods and score herself an easy kill. However, these will be rare events rather than commonplace. As discussed, use of Cossack's gunnery and torpedoes are both steeped in challenges. One of the drawbacks of British torpedoes is their large detection range. While not quite on the same level as Japanese destroyer torpedoes, this does limit their effectiveness. Summary: The potency of her guns varies considerably based on the tier of the target she faces. Her gunnery performance is inconsistent. Her torpedoes are individually excellent but they're difficult to use, locked behind a higher skill wall. Cossack must present a lot of broadside to cycle her weapons which can make her unfortunately predictable. Evaluation: What it would have needed to be : Cossack never quite gets her act together to seriously contest the Japanese gunships for their primacy at this tier. Yeah, I'm as shocked as you are that Japan now dominates the destroyer firepower meta at tier VIII. I always thought it would have been the Soviets, but here we are. Defense Hit Points: 15,200hp Min Bow & Deck Armour: 19mm The Lolibote with a redundant name sure looks OP when you lay out the maximum effective hit point total of the tier VIII destroyers like this. However, making perfect use of all four charges of her Repair Party happens so seldom. Still, she's way tougher than Cossack. Cossack has nothing going for her in this category. She has a downright middling hit point total and no fun quirks to her armour profile. This is a destroyer where you will have to manage any gunfire trades carefully to preserve your health. Her DPM advantage is not so high that she can afford to simply slug away at an enemy lolibote and hope to come out the better. The Survivability Expert skill, which ups her to an even 18,000hp should be considered mandatory lest she fall behind the staying power of other gunships. Veterans who are familiar with the play style of Loyang and Benson will no doubt be able to relate to the need to properly spend their hit points when making gunship attacks. The difference between Cossack and these American-based gunships is her worse Smoke Generator performance which limits her ability to make escapes when things go pear shaped. Cause they will. Evaluation: What it would have needed to be : Cossack is in the bottom half of the vast tier VIII destroyer population. It's going to take a lot to move her up in rank -- namely another 5,000 hit points or a Repair Party consumable. Agility Top Speed: 36.0 knots Port Turning Radius: 610m Rudder Shift: 3.6s Maximum Turn Rate: 8.9º/s There's a lot to cover here. Let's hope I can put it in some semblance of good order without melting the brains of my readers. Your take away should be this: Cossack is far more agile than her in-port stats might otherwise indicate. She comes about quickly. She accelerates fast. She doesn't lose speed in a turn. Stay with me here, this graph isn't as scary as it looks. In purple, we have the sustained 4/4 speed of the tier VIII destroyers with their rudder hard over. This is how fast these destroyers can move while wiggling, dodging and coming about. In green is their nominal maximum speed -- for Cossack and Lightning, that's 36 knots. In blue, we have their engine boost speed. What makes Cossack so remarkable is that her maximum speed and turning speed pretty much overlap AND she access to an Engine Boost. This makes her a much harder target to hit, akin to a fast Soviet destroyer in terms of her forward momentum but with the added bonus that she can change her heading much more quickly. Cossack doesn't have the straight-line speed of some of her contemporaries. However, she's functionally faster than many of them. Like destroyers from the Royal Navy tech tree, Cossack preserves almost all of her speed while under manoeuvres. Most destroyers bleed off between 15% and 18% of their top speed while wiggling and dodging. Cossack loses less than 2%. In addition, Cossack comes about almost as nimbly as USS Sims -- one of the most agile mid-tier destroyers in the game, and at a higher sustained speed. For enemies trying to pick her off at range, Cossack presents the dual challenge of a ridiculously high top speed with an nimble target, giving the best traits of both American and Soviet lolibotes in a single package. It doesn't stop there. From a dead stop, Cossack accelerates as much as 25% faster than a similar destroyer equipped with Propulsion Modification 2. From a dead stop, Cossack is quick to get moving again, helping her avoid sudden threats like incoming torpedoes or being lit by Surveillance Radar. Cossack gets the best of both worlds when it comes to upgrades; she enjoys better acceleration than she would have receive with Propulsion Modification 2 and she gets the improved rudder shift time of Steering Gears Modification 2. Unlike other Royal Navy destroyers, Cossack gets all of this without sacrificing access to Engine Boost. Combined with a Sierra Mike signal, she can get her speed up to 40.8kts for these brief spells while keeping all of the aforementioned bonuses to her handling. While ships like Kiev and the upcoming Le Terrible can outpace her in a straight line, Cossack wins out in overall handling and flexibility in combat situations. She trivializes dodging incoming fire and dancing torpedo beats. Paper stats won't tell the whole story. If you looked at a combination of Cossack's top speed, turning radius and rudder shift time, she'd look deceptively mediocre. The engine power of the Royal Navy destroyers and their energy preservation means that they perform on an entirely different level from the other lolibotes, making Cossack far more nimble than her stats otherwise indicate. Her Engine Boost consumable adds even more flexibility than even Lightning can boast, making Cossack the most agile destroyer at her tier.[/caption] Summary Boosted acceleration. Little to no loss of speed in a turn. Cossack can rocket-butt with Engine Boost unlike other British DDs. Evaluation: What would have to happen to DOWNGRADE to : Loss of her Engine Boost consumable would be enough. This is a closely contested category at tier VIII with Lightning being hot on Cossack's heels with better rate of turn and a smaller turning radius. Anti-Aircraft Defense AA Battery Calibers: 40mm / 12.7mm AA Umbrella Ranges: 2.5km / 1.2km AA DPS per Aura: 12.9 / 4.2 Hahaha, no. Cossack has no large caliber AA guns to speak of. Even cursory HE damage is likely to strip her of all of her remaining defensive weapons. Enemy aircraft carriers should feel completely safe in having their planes loiter over Cossack and friendly carriers should abstain from dragging enemy aircraft near Cossack. She'll be of no help. ... except I did. Evaluation: What it would have needed to be : Cossack only barely ekes out the worst AA rating at tier VIII. Asashio is only marginally better with less DPS but more range. In theory, it wouldn't take much to nudge Cossack up the ladder, but don't ever assume this would make her evaluation passable here. Refrigerator Base Surface Detection Range: 6.97km Air Detection Range: 3.90km Minimum Surface Detection Range: 5.48km Detection Range when Firing from Smoke: 2.48km Main Battery Firing Range: 11.89km Detection Consumables: Smoke Generator / Hydroacoustic Search There's a whole lot of weirdness crammed into Cossack's refrigerator. She is currently the rated tier VIII destroyer in terms of stealth and detection, however this is a title she doesn't claim easily. There are three elements which define her concealment: her surface detection range, her Hydroacoustic Search and her Smoke Generator. Surface Detection Spotting distance delta (in meters) between HMS Cossack and the destroyers within her matchmaking spread when fully upgraded for concealment. This chart is restricted only to those destroyers within +/- 500m spread of Cossack's optimized stealth rating. Note that a distance of at least 200m is necessary to have a plausible chance of a reactionary advantage over an opponent and more is preferable. There are few destroyers that can challenge her concealment rating. Cossack is one of the stealthiest destroyers not only at her tier but also within her matchmaking spread. Only the Kagero-class sisters (Kagero, Asashio, Harekaze) have an improved stealth rating as low as 5.374km to Cossack's 5.476km. In open water with every other match-up, Cossack will detect enemies before she herself is seen. Generally speaking, when Cossack is top tier, she will dominate scouting. It's only when she faces tier IX opponents that things get harried, with detection ranges being close enough that Cossack is likely to trip over an enemy destroyer without enough time to react. Surveillance Radar, always the bane of destroyers (and gunship destroyers especially), is a very real and especially prevalent threat to Cossack's well being. When she's bottom tier, Cossack faces several ships with radar that meet or outstrip their surface detection range. There is very little counterplay she can exercise against ships armed with this consumable short of having advanced knowledge of their approximate location. Keep a wary eye on team rosters and behave accordingly. Hydroacoustic Search HMS Cossack comes with a Royal Navy Destroyer safety blanket -- her Hydroacoustic Search. In the radar-heavy environment in which she plays, this lacks the offensive utility found on HMCS Haida and it's largely reserved for simply sniffing out torpedoes. Still, it is possible for Cossack to unmask ships hiding within smoke screens while using her consumable, however she needs to get even closer than her Canadian counterpart to do it. This tactic is largely inadvisable given Cossack's difficulties in getting away once detected but it can be pulled off in a pinch, especially in late game scenarios where an enemy destroyer lacks support. Exploit that three minute duration -- she can outlast the longer ranged (and easier to use) consumables found on Loyang and German destroyers. Outside of these very specific instances, Cossack's Hydroacoustic Search is better used defensively -- giving her the time necessary to avoid incoming torpedo strikes. In most games, this will largely be its purpose. Vigilance is a helpful skill in this regard for team play purposes if you can afford it. Still, this consumable provides a degree of flexibility to the ship that expert players can exploit and to underestimate or dismiss it would be a mistake. Cossack belongs up on the front lines, projecting vision forward for her team and sniffing out early torpedo threats. Smoke Generator There's a big ol' "but" looming over Cossack's superior vision control. She may have great surface detection. She may have a very handy detection consumable that keeps her safe from torpedoes and can be used offensively in a pinch. Butt, her Smoke Generator stinks. Shackled to the same terrible smoke consumable as the British destroyers in the tech tree, Cossack is held back by its low emission and duration times. She doesn't make many smoke clouds for one. What smoke she does make doesn't last nearly long enough to be comfortable, undermining both Cossack's survivability and her ability to deal damage. When used offensively, Cossack can only park in smoke for 40 seconds at a time. With American battleships boasting up to 20s worth of immunity with their Damage Control Party, Cossack isn't going to seriously contest her opponent's ability to put out fires. This necessitates other tactics to get the most out of the potential damage output of her guns. Borrowing the smoke from another ship is one way such as in a division. She can also take a page from American cruiser and destroyer game play and use island cover to lob her shells at enemies that cannot see her but her lack of reach makes this difficult. Finally she can simply elect to fire from open water and risk trading her hit points. I would hardly call this ideal given her low hit point total. Defensively, her smoke is also found wanting. At top speed in a straight line, Cossack drops all of three (count 'em) smoke clouds. If you install the special upgrade, Smoke Generator Modification 1 you get one more puff. That's it -- hardly worth the coal investment. Cossack's consumable is not so much a smoke screen as a squid's ink-squirt. If Cossack has been firing her guns, she may not being able to create enough smoke to block line of sight to multiple opponents (which will make you wonder why you even bothered). Fortunately, if you cut your speed the moment you activate her consumable, Cossack will come to a stop inside the last cloud. Don't wait on the throttle though -- you need to be decelerating the moment you begin laying down your rings. At least Cossack's smoke reset timer isn't punitive. The delay between dissipating and the availability of her next charge can be as little as 20 seconds with the correct commander and signal combination. With up to seven charges available, Cossack simply needs to hold her fire for brief intervals before setting up for another round of shooting. Patience and careful planning can almost make up for all of her consumable's shortcomings. Closely Contested Cossack is an excellent scout. Few destroyers at tier VIII can sit as comfortably on the front lines, broadcasting back enemy positions for their team as Cossack can. In addition, her forward position helps protect her allies from long range torpedo salvos which become quite commonplace within her matchmaking. This isn't a safe place to be, however, and Cossack lacks reliable smoke from her toolkit to give her a sense of security. Cossack may be one of the stealthiest ships at her tier and one of the best destroyers for controlling vision for her team. However, this is very little room for error. Summary Great open water concealment. Hydroacoustic Search combined with her great acceleration and handling makes enemy torpedoes launched at range a non-threat. Her smoke smells like butts. At least she gets a lot of quick-reloading charges. Evaluation: What would have to happen to DOWNGRADE to : Top spot among the tier VIII destroyers is heavily contested. The Japanese torpedo ships have the best raw concealment values. Loyang has arguably the best combination of detection consumables though her surface detection is too big to take the crown. Cossack wins out on primacy despite the flaw of her Smoke Generator, but not without contention. Keeping Oskar from becoming a Sam Skills rated by their utility in descending order from purple, to blue, to green, to red. For the colourblind, they're also rated by hearts. Cossack's initial skill choices are fairly standard for a gunship. Start with Priority Target. Next take Last Stand at tier 2. Survivability Expert is optimal at tier 3. And finish off your 10th point with Concealment Expert. Basic Fire Training should be a must on anyone's list after that and Adrenaline Rush is also optimal. From there, spend your last four points as you will. Final Evaluation I'm not one to blame matchmaking. However, Cossack's fortunes are more firmly tied to matchmaking than many other ships I've played in recent memory. I think it's largely owing to how Cossack performs when she up-tiers. To be absolutely clear, Cossack is a beast when she's the top of the pile. There are very few opponents she cannot engage comfortably and it's only those vessels at her own tier which give her pause. However, Cossack doesn't feel anywhere near as comfortable when she has to go up against tier IX and X opponents. This isn't a problem unique to Cossack, but it is more pronounced in her case. Her guns have a very limited menu of appetizing targets when she faces same or higher tiered opponents. It's not that she can't deal damage when bottom tier, it's simply more of a challenge than for other destroyers. She reminds me very much of most tier V battleships, where they can feel like real powerhouses in those rare times that matchmaking favours them and victims otherwise. Your mileage in Cossack will vary based upon not only where your placed on the Matchmaking roster but what's on the enemy team. So long as she's facing enemy destroyers and cruisers with soft squishy bits she can pelt with her pew pews, you're going to have a great time regardless of her tier. If you suddenly find yourself facing down tier VIII+ American and German heavy cruisers, a heavy battleship lineup or Japanese ducky-destroyers, life's going to be a lot more difficult. Fortunately, Cossack still has a role when she can't be the big dog. When she's no longer able to deal direct damage easily, she excels at simply putting eyes on targets and pressuring cap circles. It's difficult to dislodge an RNDD that has setup shop around a given cap short of using concerted air power or a constant barrage of radiation from Surveillance Radar to drive them back. Cossack won't come out of said matches with much to show for it other than a win if everything goes right, unfortunately. I do like Cossack, but she doesn't inspire the same kind of awe her sister ship, Haida did for me. There's a lot to enjoy with this ship. Few feels as comfortable as she does when top tier and even in those uptiered matches, she can serve you well provided you meet the right opponents. However, in those games where there's nothing but hard targets, the pickings get mighty slim. I dunno why, but I'm a fan of Cossack's alternative camouflage. I wish it didn't cost 2,000 doubloons to make my ship look pretty, but oh well. Would I Recommend? Cossack was originally made available through the Royal Navy event which ran in the last quarter of 2018. Wargaming assigned her a cost of 50 Guineas with players able to earn up to 48 Guineas over three patches. It's not you -- the math doesn't add up. The assumption is that players will have to pay for the difference with a Guinea setting you back around $1 USD. Otherwise, players may acquire her for the equivalent cost of 9,600 doubloons + the price of a port slot. PVE Battles How well does the ship maintain profitability in Co-Op modes and how does she fare against bots? No. Cossack does alright in Operation Dynamo, but her contribution is very one-sided with being largely limited to engaging the torpedo boats. Her AA power is virtually non-existent. Co-Op isn't kind to gunship destroyers, particularly those with only modest hit point pools and limited torpedo options. Random Battle Grinding: This includes training captains, collecting free experience, earning credits and collecting signal flags from achievements. Yes with a butt. Cossack doesn't play much differently than the other Royal Navy destroyers and her skill choices overlap nicely (especially with captains for Icarus, Jervis, Jutland and Daring). The only issue is that earnings get a might bit slim of matchmaking doesn't love you. For Competitive Gaming: Competitive Gaming includes Ranked Battles and other skill-based tournaments. This also includes stat-padding. No. There are better choices, namely Loyang and Akizuki. For Collectors: If you enjoy ship history or possessing rare ships, this section is for you. Yes. Now you too can own a memento of the ship that predicated the early invasion of Norway! Slap on a Hotel Yankee signal, board some enemies and cause an international incident! For Fun Factor: Bottom line: Is the ship fun to play? Yes. While I'd rather play Haida, that's my own Canadian bias speaking. Cossack is a fun ship though be warned, she is a tier VIII destroyer. That comes with all of the hangups that tier VIII destroyers face. What's the Final Verdict? How would the ship rate on an Angry YouTuber scale of Garbage - Meh - Gud - Overpowered? GARBAGE- The boat is unbalanced, not fun to play and weak. The ship desperately needs some buffs or some quality of life changes. Mehbote - An average ship. Has strengths and weaknesses. Doesn't need buffs to be viable however she's not going to be considered optimal. Gudbote - A powerful ship, often one of the best ships at a given role within its tier. Usually considered optimal for a given task. OVERPOWERED - The boat is unbalanced and powerful. Typically she's either horrible to play against or she redefines the meta entirely In Closing Is it over? I think it's over! Cossack (and Haida) have been on books since January of 2018 -- that's over nine months of work that has gone into reviewing her and her sister ship with too many different versions between them. As you can imagine, there was a lot of information to keep track of with her performance changing so regularly. While I'm happy the two ships aren't terrible, I'm very (very) glad to be able to stop worrying about Cossack for a while. I want to thank my readers and fans who helped keep me sane over these months and an especially well deserved thanks to my Patrons on Patreon who helped keep me fed. I won't have to dig her out again until there's another tier VIII destroyer to review for a comparative study. But that won't happen for another ... Aww, sh-- ...!  Appendix (1) Penetration data courtesy of Proships.ru (https://www.proships.ru) and World of Warships AP Calculator (https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/).
  11. EDIT: 3/28/21 - Played 10 game since 10.2 and wanted to share my reworked Captain build. The Kidd is still incredibly playable, even when uptiered and when top tier, is still one of my favorite destroyers in the game. Having T9 speed and guns at T8 will always make you at least somewhat competitive if you play smart, and out rightly OP in many scenarios when you're the top tier. EDIT: 7/6/20 - Been a minute! Up to 227 games. The Kidd is still competitive, but like all DDs, suffers heavily based on MM, and like most T8s, also suffers heavily when put with T10s. EDIT: 1/20/19 - Up to 172 games now. Current stats: (Also, Happy New Year!) EDIT: 9/18/18 - Up to 144 games now. Current stats: EDIT: 7/5/18 - Up to 123 games now. Current stats: So, pretty much everything to follow still stands, but I've switched up my build pretty significantly, so I wanted to outline that here. I took advantage of the discounted respec a couple weeks ago to change things up. Modules, consumables and flags remain the same. I think it's probably the best of both worlds where you maintain a 6km AA range, you still have defensive AA, but you have far more survivability with SE and Vigilance, and maintain DPS with BFT. I've been very much enjoying this build, though the current radar meta has made getting good consistent damage numbers a bit more difficult. But the Kidd is still extremely fun and a very dangerous adversary when played correctly. Thanks for reading and post any questions you have and I'm happy to answer! Good hunting, Pirates. Just wanted to share my thoughts on this ship in case anyone was on the fence about buying her while she's still available. I currently have 371 games in the Fletcher and 245 games in the Gearing with both over 1400 in WTR. Just to give you some perspective on where I'm coming from in how I view the Kidd. Tl;DR - If you love T8 and up USN DDs, then get this ship. Just do it. She's awesome. All of these 25 games were played Solo, in Random Battles, and at all different times of day on the NA server. I picked 25 games because within these games were a fair mix of outcomes. I had insane super-unicum games, and I had that game where I ate a unlucky Fletcher torp 2 minutes in and and got one-shotted having done zero damage, and all types inbetween. So there's a balance there. I'm no great player, just good, so I think my results are achievable for the above average USN DD player. Here are my stats according to Warships Today Moving on: Here's how I've had my Captain and ship set up for all 25 games, with one exception; I ran AFT instead of Manual AA for the first several games, but other than that no changes were made. This is essentially the build that Flamu runs, but with Manual AA in place of Advanced Fire Training. Ship modules. Probably no surprises here. You could swap rudder shift for acceleration. I go back and forth on it. The Kidd seems to accelerate pretty slowly and I've wished for it on more than one occasion. EDIT (11-22-17): I've since swapped rudder for acceleration and there is a massive difference. I highly recommend making the switch if you currently have rudder shift currently. Flags. Unless you're trying to grind credits or XP/Captain XP, you really don't need much help on the economic side of things. Even in so-so games you clear 100k credits. Many, many more in good games. I don't want to rehash what LWM, Flamu, Notser and everyone else has done. If you want pros and cons, just head over to the wiki for the ship and its all right there. These are just my thoughts. - First off, this ship is just fun. If you enjoy the Fletcher, you'll feel instantly comfortable and right at home. - The big knock against the Kidd is the torps, and yeah they're not great and I'm still learning how to use them. The best advice I can give someone just picking up the Kidd is treat them defensively. You're gonna spend a lot of time in smoke and everyone knows you only have 5 fish for defense. Save them for when you really need them, and can guarantee successful strikes. There has been at least 5 times where my torps were on cooldown, because I had fired them on a traditional type of target, only to need them a minute later because a BB was YOLOing into my smoke. On each and every one of these occasions, the torps would have 100% made the difference between me living and dying, as well as getting a kill and helping my team win. I -It's a tough habit to break. But save the damn torps. You'll be glad you did. -Now, for the Heal. The heal on this ship is a game-changer. It will absolutely ruin you on other DDs because of the staying power that it gives you. We all know that DDs become more dangerous the longer you get into games and the Kidd is no exception. It allows you to survive late into games and make a huge difference. Out of 25 games, I've survived 15 of them. And at least 5 of those where I died were 100% my fault for misplaying the ship and being far too aggressive. In each and every game the heal absolutely changes the landscape of your performance. It allows you to swap damage with DDs, heal, and come right back into the fight to finish them off. It's such an advantage that playing without it on other DDs just sucks. Like I said, the Kidd is ruining me. -Now obviously the heal can't save you from everything. If you take a torp, or the ridiculous BB AP salvos that plague DDs right now, yeah you're screwed. You can heal back some, but massive alpha strikes still ruin your day, just not quite as bad. You should still have a robust fear of RN Cruiser AP, and any ship with a radar. -The AA is awesome when you get to use it. Most games its useful for just blapping scout planes, which it does pretty much instantly as soon as you pop Def AA. Very nice. As for CVs, it works as advertised. I've yet to face a Midway, but I've gone up against I think every other CV from T7 up and it works extremely well. MAA + BFT + Def AA is just disgusting. You can wipe multiple squadrons before they can drop on you. I've seen several CV players just avoid me completely, which in a DD is saying something. But hey, if you watch three of your strike groups evaporate while flying over a smoke cloud, I'd probably avoid it too. Alright now for the stuff that kinda sucks. -You have very little ability to hard carry games, unless it becomes a race to cap, or if the remaining enemies are DDs not named Khab, Gearing, Udaloi and Grozovoi. That's really been the tough part of the ship for me. You rely on your guns to do damage, and if you don't have anyone to spot for you, it becomes very frustrating trying to stop those stubborn BB pushes, and god help you if they have radar Cruisers in support. When you have support, this ship shines. You can harass with your guns, drop awesome US smoke, and you have your torps in case someone feels froggy. -The guns are still what they are. They have rainbow arcs and very little fire chance. If you're not good at USN DD gunnery, you will struggle mightily to do high amounts of damage in this ship. Even I have games where it seems like my shells are allergic to steel and go everywhere except where I want them to. -This ship almost requires a dedicated Captain. I mean, sure I can use this build in my Fletcher, but it's not ideal. Ideally you'd want things like Survivability Expert and Torpedo Reload instead. It's not a bad thing really, but to bring out the best of what this ship has to offer, you may need to divert slightly from the optimum build in your other USN DDs. But if you do run those Captains in the Kidd, she's still very, very good and a great trainer. In Summary: No regrets buying this ship at all. She's a ton of fun and if you die in her, its probably all your fault for playing the way I do and being way too aggressive and being overwhelmed by torps, radar, and YOLO rushing BBs. It's T8 so the Matchmaker you get is not great. I didn't keep track, but I'm willing to bet at least half my games were multiple T10 ships. I can remember clearly 3 games where I was top tier. And on that note, it bears mentioning. If you get top tier? Good grief this ship is ridiculous. Seeing a spread on the other side of Farraguts, Mahans, Fubukis makes my hands tingle. Go hunting and enjoy your rewards. It's a solid moneymaker. Not Missouri good, obviously, but I'd say on average I clear 200k per game running all premium consumables, and no credit flags. Thanks for reading! If you have any specific questions, just post them and I'll answer!
  12. Sooo, just came out of this battle. I believe people will notice something is missing . With that fresh example, this brings up the biggest impact the skill rework had, aka the disruption of the class ecosystem. It isn't just Deadeye; it plays its role in attracting BB players as if it will suddenly make them godlike snipers. It's that cruisers aside from a few lighthouse build exceptions got the short end of the stick and it shows while the other surface classes profited quite a bit. Why bother playing a CA/CL? To be target practice, or to stick to a specific playstyle that's just farming damage without any other impact? What's the point to punish myself in a cruiser when I can mimick a CL in a Kleber with 16.3km range, that goes 55 kts and has no citadel? Damage isn't everything, and in the case of cruisers their consumables can have real, meaningful impact on a battle without even firing a shot. Without them around there are no real hard counters to things like vision control of the DDs, nor DPM that can melt a fragile class. And when there are loads of BBs and almost no cruisers around DD populations surge. At that point the greatest enemy of a DD becomes an enemy DD, something which relies heavily on personal skill, something which the average DD player is lacking. Meanwhile aside from that original announcement there is still no info on the specifics of skill tweaks. But hey, at least I got my pound of flesh from the enemy BBs/DDs so everything is fine, there's absolutely no need for changes nor is the situation slowly turning toxic.
  13. meat2

    Cruiser role.

    There are many topics on the forum that cover cruisers, ATF, battleships hiding, cruiser roles, torpedoes spam, cruisers hiding,aircraft carriers, and teamwork. But the topic of the role of cruisers is one major idea that kind of covers and unites them together. If a forum reader reads through the threads on any of the topics listed above he/she will notice something; in many of these topics a player speaking from the point of view of battleship players will tell the cruiser players that cruisers are a "support" class. So, this question is primary for battleship players, what do you mean by "support"? How do you actually define "support role"? Also take in consideration the play-ability of your definition, enjoyment that cruiser player would have playing by your ideas, and also the take into consideration current game mechanics. P.S. If you are a player that primary plays other classes, or want to speak from the point of view of destroyers, cruisers, or aircraft carriers feel free to speak your own mind on the role of cruisers and the meaning of the idea of "support." Be civil everyone and thank you.
  14. Before anyone dismisses this as the usual DMG saturation... I provided the replay... You been advised (in other words, I am excluding DMG saturation in this case)... I'll keep it short without leaving out any value details... I am in a Kami in a tier 7 match, towards the end of the match... I torp a BB... I die... Boring so far I know... That is the summery of the battle... The details are as follows... Launch a full Kami salvo at the tier 7 BB (the new green Luigi Pasta BBs)... They all land.... He is still alive... How is that possible ??? I've watch the replay like 5 times already and the torps were spread out to not trigger DMG saturation.. Kami torps hit like a Russian horse... Sink any BB in its tier range usually, within 5 shots... This left me baffled, so I look at the Replay... In any other tier 7 BB, its a DEV strike... My theory ??? Power creep... Force by the "population and popularity" statistic variable explanation, from the RU Summit of 2019. How would you make BB popular with this variable ???A plausable explination would be By taking away the fear of the common threats they will face... Making torps DMG hit like pillow fists rather then an explosive ordnance. This is detrimental to the current DD (especially torp DDs). It reduces them to "PT Boats" then actual Destroyers... Here is the evidence collected... I even went to the training room to test my theory (or my frustration depending on your POV)on tier 7 BBs. Test subject of my theory... The Match in question. Time stamp on the replay The 7 min to 6:20 mark of the match. 20210312_215242_PJSD025-True-Kamikaze_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay (No longer works due to the patch change). BTW The next patch is ready for advance DL RIGHT NOW! GL and HF
  15. With Mysore being released and Vampire 2 just around the corner, it's not that much of a stretch (and some wishful thinking on my part) that we may get a commonwealth line soon. Since destroyers were the most numerous of ships used by commonwealth nations that are considered "warships" in wows, then we'll probably get a destroyer line first. What I wanted to do here was throw my own hat into the ring and share some of my own ideas on a commonwealth tech tree. I modelled the main line off of haida's playstyle, but changed a few things and added new flavors to them as to hopefully make them stand apart from haida and vampire. In terms of the torpedo focused split, I decided to combine elements from paolo, monaghan (of all things), and rolling smoke brawling. Now the biggest problem that I hear and see, and one that most proposals try to address is the question of "how will these not just be copy paste RN destroyers?" That's absolutely a fair criticism, but one I hope to address here. Now without further ado: Characteristics of the main line: Italian style SAP: this is the big deviation I have from other proposals. Unlike other destroyers, commonwealth DDs will be unique in the form of SAP shells akin to those of Paolo Emilio and other Italian ships. Now obviously they won't be exactly like those of Paolo, but this will reinforce their high alpha strike potential. The bigger question will be if it's right to cut out HE or AP. Mediocre DPM: while the guns will hit very hard with SAP, the overall damage per minute is worse than their British counterparts. Don't even think of getting into a gunfight with a Japanese gunship unless you can kill them in the first two salvos. Lack of torpedo power: while the torpedoes at higher tiers hit harder, the amount of fish put into the water at a time is lackluster at best. And while the lower tier destroyers put a decent amount of fish in the water, the alpha is anemic and speed is poor. These are not torpedo boats you are looking for No RN DD characteristics: aside from being royal navy designs and hulls, the main line of commonwealth destroyers won't have access to british acceleration, maneuverability, or a repair party. The only thing sticking with these ships that the Brits have is the unique long duration, short range hydro. Improved british hydroacoustic and rolling smoke: the unique smoke screen is a must, but the hydro however will have a similar action time as the british, but with a little bit of increased range (4km max) Burst surveillance radar (t8+, choice between it or hydro) another deviation here. With the option to swap this for hydroacoustic search starting at tier 8, this radar will have up to 7 charges, a maximum range of 10km, and a cooldown time of 30 seconds. Now you might think this radar is completely absurd, but the one huge drawback is the duration time of 5 seconds. The more astute among you may realise that this is exactly the same amount of time that radar has as a "grace period" before ships spotted by it render for all other teammates. This means that unless friendlies are amazing with circle minimap blindfire, the only one able to shoot that enemy will be you. Thus, this radar isn't more of an offensive tool, but one for information gathering. It isn't as wasteful to be as trigger happy with it, but it's a tradeoff between it and the hydro. Engagement control: commonwealth destroyers should live and die much harder than other destroyers based on their ability to control engagements. This is a fundamental to almost all destroyers, but especially these as they don't have the flat DPM to outright win gunfights with a lot of their contemporaries. They must rely on their consumables and positioning to win engagements with other destroyers. Anti sub kings: if and when subs do come into the game, commonwealth destroyers should be the cream of the crop when it comes to hunting submarines. Many commonwealth nations (with Canada especially) specialized into anti submarine warfare duties. Australian ships repelled japanese submarines on the homefront, and Canadian escorts regularly sunk submarines and protected convoys during the battle of the Atlantic. Since subs are still work in progress, it's still up in the air how countering them will completely work (e.g: sub detection, depth charge damage, hydro effectiveness). Despite this, when they are released, it seems only natural that commonwealth destroyer should be some of, if not the best at countering this underwater threat. Main line (gunboats): Tier 1: Stormont Armament: 2x2 102mm guns Speed: 20.5 knots Consumables: Damage control Tier 2: Patriot Armament: 3x1 102mm guns, 2x2 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 35 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke Tier 3: Waterhen Armament: 4x1 102mm guns, 2x3 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 34 knots Consumables: Damage control, creeping smoke Tier 4: Saguenay Armament: 4x1 120mm guns, 2x4 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 31 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke Tier 5: Stuart Armament: 5x1 120mm guns, 2x3 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 34 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke Tier 6: Rajput Armament: 4x1 120mm guns, 2x4 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 36 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke, Hydroacoustic search Tier 7: Algonquin Armament: 4x1 120mm guns, 2x4 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 32 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke, Hydroacoustic search Tier 8 (where the line splits): Athabascan Armament: 3x2 120mm guns, 1x4 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 36 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke, Hydroacoustic search/Burst radar Tier 9: Nizam Armament: 3x2 120mm guns, 1x5 torpedo tubes Speed: 36 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke, Hydroacoustic search/Burst radar Tier 10: Vendetta Armament: 3x2 113mm guns, 1x5 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 32 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke, Hydroacoustic search/Burst radar Alternate torpedo line: But I'm not done yet! here's where I wanted to have a little fun. I decided to try my hand in a little idea I had for a torpedo focused split starting at tier 8. Now this is more of a fun bit of theorycrafting rather than a feasible split in my mind, but I still wanted to have some fun with the idea. the biggest difference from the gunboat line is, obviously, torpedoes over guns. This split will trade off gunpower (nerfing gun reload and DPM into the ground) for the ability to put more torpedoes into the water at once. Another big theme with this split would be access to a variety of consumable options. For example, the ability to swap creeping smoke for torpedo reload booster, hydro for DFAA, or even speed boost which is something that hasn't been seen on the main line. Tier 8: Jaan Van Riebeeck Armament: 4x1 120mm guns, 2x4 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 36 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke/Torpedo reload booster, Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA Tier 9: Anzac Armament: 2x2 113mm guns, 2x5 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 31 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke/Torpedo reload booster, Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA/Speed boost Tier 10: Voyager Armament: 3x2 113mm guns, 2x5 533mm torpedo tubes Speed: 33 knots Consumables: Damage control, Creeping smoke/Torpedo reload booster, Hydroacoustic search/Defensive AA/Speed boost Now I felt like the biggest challenge with this proposal was finding good ships for the mid tiers. The one I'm most unhappy about is Algonquin at tier 7 with only 4 guns and 8 torpedoes. The difficult part was finding ships that would display proper line progression. What I mean by this is, for example, placing Athabascan at tier 8 with it's shift to harder hitting guns, but only a single torpedo tube launcher. If I was then to put one of the Australian battle class destroyers at tier 9, the issue would be the loss of a turret and double the torpedo tubes of the previous ship in the line just wouldn't fit. That's why I decided to put an N class destroyer in that place instead. Even though it may be a bit underpowered, the single quintuple torpedo launcher and 3x2 gun layout fits with her place in the line. Other than this, I feel quite happy with this proposal as a whole. If you have a better idea for a part of this line or just want to give some feedback, that would be awesome.
  16. Totenliste

    Possible Italian DD line

    We really need to get some Italian DDs out there to fight the French Destroyers Note: I tried to avoid using another country's unmodified destroyer in this line up. [T2] Curtatone Class DD 1923 https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_curtatone.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtatone-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: · 953 t (standard) ·1214 t (full load) Length: 84.72 m (277 ft 11 in) Beam: 8 m (26 ft 3 in) Draught: 2.46 m (8 ft 1 in) Propulsion: ·2 shaft Zoelly steam turbines ·4 Thornycroft type boilers ·22,000 hp (16,400 kW) Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph) Range: 1,800 nmi (3,300 km) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) Complement: 117 Armament: ·4 × 102 mm guns (2 × 2) ·2 × 76 mm AA guns (2 × 2) ·6 × 13.2 mm machine guns ·6 × 450 mm (18 in) torpedo tubes (2 × 3) ·16 mines [T3] Quinto Sella Class DD 1929 Refit https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_sella.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sella-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: ·1140 t (standard) ·1,457 t (full load) Length: 84.9 m (278 ft 7 in) Beam: 8.6 m (28 ft 3 in) Draught: 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) Installed power: ·3 Thornycroft boilers ·36,000 shp (27,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 33 knots (61 km/h; 38 mph) Range: 3,600 nmi (6,700 km; 4,100 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph) Complement: 152 Armament: ·2 × twin 120 mm (4.7 in) guns ·2 × single 40 mm (1.6 in) AA guns ·2 × single 13.2 mm (0.52 in) machine guns ·2 × twin 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·32 mines [T4] Turbine Class DD 1927 https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_turbine.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: ·1,220 t (standard) ·1,670 t (full load) Length: 93.2 m (305 ft 9 in) Beam: 9.2 m (30 ft 2 in) Draught: 3 m (9 ft 10 in) Installed power: ·3 Thornycroft boilers ·40,000 shp (30,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 33 knots (61 km/h; 38 mph) Range: 3,200 nmi (5,900 km; 3,700 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph) Complement: 179 Armament: ·2 × twin 120 mm (4.7 in) guns ·2 × single 40 mm (1.6 in) AA guns ·4 × twin 13.2 mm (0.52 in) machine guns ·2 × triple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·52 mines [T5] Soldati Class DD 1941-1942 Version (also known as Camicia Nera Class) https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_soldati.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldati-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: · 1,830 t (standard) · 2,460 t (full load) Length: ·106.7 m (350 ft 1 in) (o/a) ·101.6 m (333 ft 4 in) (pp) Beam: 10.15 m (33 ft 4 in) Draught: 3.15–4.3 m (10 ft 4 in–14 ft 1 in) Installed power: ·3 Yarrow boilers ·48,000 shp (36,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 33 - 35 knots Range: 2,200 nmi at 20 knots Complement: Electronics: 206 Sonar Armament: ·(2 × 2 + 1 x 1) 120 mm (4.7 in) guns ·(4 × 2) 20 mm AA guns ·2 × triple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·2 × depth charge throwers ·48 mines [T6] Navigatori Class DD 1939-1940 Refit Version (Class built in answer to French Jaguar and Guépard classes) https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_navigatori.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigatori-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: ·2,125 t (standard) ·2,888 t (full load) Length: 109.3 m Beam: 11.2 m Draught: 4.2 m Installed power: ·4 water-tube boilers ·50,000 hp Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 33 – 35 knots Range: 3,800 nmi (7,000 km; 4,400 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph) Complement: 222–225 (wartime) Armament: ·3 × twin 120 mm (4.7 in) guns ·2 × single 40 mm (1.6 in) AA guns ·8 × twin 13.2 mm (0.52 in) machine guns ·6 × 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes (2 x 3) ·86–104 mines ·2 DCT [T7] Comandanti Medaglie d'Oro Class DD 1942 (Group 1) https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_comandanti.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comandanti_Medaglie_d'Oro-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: · 2,067 t (standard) · 2,900 t (full load) Length: 120.7 m (396 ft) (o/a) Beam: 12.3 m (40 ft 4 in) Draught: 3.6 m (11 ft 10 in) Installed power: ·3 three-drum boilers ·60,000 shp (45,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 35 - 38 knots Range: 3,300 nmi (6,100 km; 3,800 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) Complement: 272 Sensors and processing systems: EC-3 ter Gufo search radar Armament: ·4 × single 135 mm (5.3 in) guns ·12 × single 37 mm (1.5 in) AA guns ·2 × triple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·52 mines ·2 depth charge throwers, 64 depth charges [T8] Spalato Class DD 1943 (Italian Armament and Machinery in French based Fantasque hull) https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_spalato.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_destroyer_Split Type: Large destroyer Displacement: · 2,040 t (Standard) · 2,500 t (full load) Length: ·120 m (393 ft 8 in) (o/a) ·114.8 m (376 ft 8 in) (p/p) Beam: 11.3 m (37 ft 1 in) Draft: 3.48 m (11 ft 5 in) Installed power: ·55,000 shp (41,000 kW) ·3 × Yarrow boilers Propulsion: 2 × shafts; 2 × geared steam turbines Speed: Crew: 36 - 38 knots 214 Armament: Electronics: ·5 × single 135 mm (5.3 in) guns ·10 × single 37 mm (1.5 in) AA guns ·4 × twin 20 mm AA guns ·2 x triple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·40 mines ·2 depth charge throwers ·2 DCR Sonar, Radar Note this is the completed version that Italy was unable to complete as shortly after getting it launched they scuttled it. As completed by Yugoslavia 1958. Here is a project done by Tzoli called DD Design 1939 I have a feeling this captured hull might have been something similar. Just swap out the quad racks for triples. Also check out Tzoli's other ship projects that never were, they are exceptional. https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Italian-Destroyer-Design-1939-779653886 [T9] Commandante Botti Class DD (Variant twin mount version of Comandanti Medaglie d'Oro 2nd Group) https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_comandanti.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comandanti_Medaglie_d'Oro-class_destroyer Type: Destroyer Displacement: · 2,067 t (standard) · 2,900 t (full load) Length: 120.7 m (396 ft) (o/a) Beam: 12.3 m (40 ft 4 in) Draught: 3.6 m (11 ft 10 in) Installed power: ·3 three-drum boilers ·60,000 shp (45,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 36 - 38 knots Range: 3,300 nmi (6,100 km; 3,800 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) Complement: 272 Sensors and processing systems: Radar Armament: ·4 × double 135 mm (5.3 in) guns ·12 × single 37 mm (1.5 in) AA guns ·2 × triple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·52 mines ·2 depth charge throwers, 64 depth charges [T10] Capitani Romani Class DD/CL 1943 (Built in response to French Fantasque and Mogador classes) [Slightly modified Paolo Emilio] https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_cr_regolo.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitani_Romani-class_cruiser Type: Destroyer/Light cruiser Displacement: ·3,987 t (standard) ·5,600 t (full load) Length: 142.2 m Beam: 14.4 m Draught: 6.4 m Installed power: ·4 water-tube boilers ·110,000 shp (82,000 kW) Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines Speed: 43 knots Range: 4,350 nmi (8,060 km; 5,010 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph) Complement: 494 Sensors and processing systems: Sonar, Radar Armament: ·4 × twin 135 mm (5.3 in) DP guns ·6 × single 65 mm AA guns ·4 × sextuple 20 mm (0.8 in) AA guns ·2 × quadruple 533 mm (21 in) torpedo tubes ·114-136 × mines ·2 DCR (24) ·2 DCT Armour: ·Turrets: 6–20 mm (0.24–0.79 in) ·Conning tower: 15 mm (0.59 in) Having had the T VI-IX (especially the IX having Emilio there is difficult) done already doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Notes: Curtatone: brought a number of innovations, concerning armament structure and arrangement. Curtatone class ships became the first Italian destroyers with all armament placed at center line. For the first time in Europe 102mm guns were installed in twin mounts. Besides that, these ships received triple TTs instead of twin. Soldati: Most successful and numerous class of Italian destroyers. Navigatori: Ordered in 1926 as the answer to the new French Jaguar and Guépard classes. New features of "Navigatori" type became machinery arrangement in echelon, that theoretically raised battle immunity. Transition to new 120mm/50 guns became another important innovation on account of the higher firing rate of the new guns "Navigatori" with three twin mounts not only did not yield, but also exceeded previous Leone class DDs with their four twin mounts of the old model. Comandanti Medaglie d'Oro: In one of the design stages 135mm guns took places both in single and twin mounts (my Commandante Botti Class), but in an ultimate variant the preference had been decided to go with four single mounts. Obviously my Commandante Botti Class at T9 can be tinkered to fit in at this level using twin mounts. Capitani Romani: Light cruisers of the Capitani Romani class became the answer to the new French Fantasque and Mogador classes. The ships should have, eight 135mm guns in four turrets, six of the newest 65mm AA guns and 2 quadruple TTs. The latter had original "two-level" construction (two tubes in the level and two in the upper). Because of unavailability of 65mm AA guns it was necessary to replace them with the habitual twin 37mm MGs. Now with the Paolo Emilio having 20-mm L65 Breda machine guns in sextuple mounts it forces my version to have them too. My T10 version has the following differences: Modified as designed add back the intended 65mm guns swapping out the 37mm, change out double 20mm for sextuple 20mm, and add radar/sonar option also slightly larger (difference with Paolo Emilio slightly better AA and radar/sonar option vs + 1 additional 1 x 4 TorpTube). Overall most Italian destroyers are known for instability problems at high speeds especially since they did time trials unloaded for intimidation factor of speed over the French. Most ships using their stable speed compare well to their French counterparts as well as in armament. Special Gimmick: Exhaust smoke generator as seen on Paolo Emilio. Other items up to design team of course.
  17. I understand Fen Yang's tweaks from her sister IJN destroyer Akizuki in regards to gunnery performance. However, Fen Yang's torpedoes currently fill a niche role that ventures into Asashio's territory. For those who don't know what I am referring to, Fen Yang currently has a deepwater variant of Akizuki's upgraded torpedoes, the Type93 mod. 2's, that have longer range (12km instead of 10km), slightly longer reload, and lowered detectability (0.8km instead of 1.7km); but the inability to damage destroyers & cruisers. Fen Yang's torpedoes can only hit battleships and aircraft carriers, similar to Asashio. Fen Yang's torpedoes are in direct conflict with the other Pan-Asian deepwater torps, which possess the ability to hit cruisers. I have a proposed change regarding Fen Yang's torpedoes. Give Fen Yang a deepwater variant of the stock Akizuki torpedoes, the Type92 mod. 1, with the ability to hit cruisers as well as battleships & aircraft carriers. The torpedo alpha would be reduced from the current 20,967 damage down to 17,233, the speed & reload would be reduced slightly, and the range reduced to 10km. Considering that Fen Yang only has one quad torpedo launcher, I don't think this change in torpedo armament would make Fen Yang overpowered in any way. The torpedo stats would be a slight nerf, however the ability for Fen Yang's torpedoes to damage cruisers would bring this destroyer back in line with the various other Pan-Asian destroyer torpedoes, while allowing Asashio to do what she does best: hunting battleships & CVs.
  18. Since there's no dev blog link up yet, here are the preliminary stats for all the proposed new line of German DDs. All subject to change and WiP obviously. No stats as of yet for Z-31, also included ZF-2 https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/112 Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary. Announced adjustments and features may change multiple times during testing. The final information will be published on our game's website. German destroyers In the upcoming supertest session, researchable Tier VII-X German destoyers will be added to the game: Z-31, Gustav Julius Maerker, Felix Schultz, and Elbing. German destroyer Gustav Julius Maerker, tier VIII Hit points – 25,000. Plating - 19 mm. Main battery - 5x1 150 mm. Firing range - 11.9 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 2,200. Chance to cause fire – 12%. HE initial velocity - 835 m/s. Maximum AP shell damage - 3,700. AP initial velocity - 835 m/s. Reload time - 6.5 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 57 m. Sigma – 2.00. Torpedo tubes - 2x2 533 mm, 1x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 65 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km. AA defense: 4x2 37.0 mm, 8x4 20.0 mm. AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 144, hit probability - 95 %, action zone 0.1-2.0 km; AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 98, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-3.5 km; Maximum speed - 36.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 760 m. Rudder shift time – 5.5 s. Surface detectability – 8.2 km. Air detectability – 4.4 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 3.5 km. Available consumables: Slot 1 - Damage Control Party Slot 2 - Hydroacoustic Search (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.0 km; Ship detection range 4.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3) Slot 3 - Defensive AA fire German destroyer Felix Schultz, tier IX Hit points – 24,200. Plating - 19 mm. Main battery - 3x2 150 mm. Firing range - 12.0 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 1,700. Chance to cause fire – 8%. HE initial velocity - 960 m/s. Maximum AP shell damage - 3,900. AP initial velocity - 960 m/s. Reload time - 7.5 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 57 m. Sigma – 2.00. Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 65 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km. AA defense: 6x4 30.0 mm. 3x2 150.0 mm. 1x2 55.0 mm. AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 196, hit probability - 95 %, action zone 0.1-3.0 km; AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 46, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-4.0 km; AA defense long-range: continuous damage per second - 46, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-6.9 km; Number of explosions in a salvo - 2, damage within an explosion - 1,680, action zone 3.5 - 6.9 km. Maximum speed - 37.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 800 m. Rudder shift time – 5.3 s. Surface detectability – 8.3 km. Air detectability – 4.3 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 3.5 km. Available consumables: Slot 1 - Damage Control Party Slot 2 - Hydroacoustic Search (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.5 km; Ship detection range 5.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3) Slot 3 - Defensive AA fire German destroyer Elbing, tier X German destroyer Elbing, tier X Hit points – 30,900. Plating - 19 mm. Main battery - 3x2 150 mm. Firing range - 12.3 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 1,700. Chance to cause fire – 8%. HE initial velocity - 960 m/s. Maximum AP shell damage - 4,100. AP initial velocity - 960 m/s. Reload time - 7.5 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 58 m. Sigma – 2.00. Torpedo tubes - 2x5 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13700. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 65 kt. Reload time - 85 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km. AA defense: 10x4 30.0 mm. 3x2 150.0 mm. 2x2 55.0 mm. AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 305, hit probability - 95 %, action zone 0.1-3.0 km; AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 88, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-4.0 km; AA defense long-range: continuous damage per second - 46, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-6.9 km; Number of explosions in a salvo - 2, damage within an explosion - 1,750, action zone 3.5 - 6.9 km. Maximum speed - 36.2 kt. Turning circle radius - 890 m. Rudder shift time – 6.3 s. Surface detectability – 8.5 km. Air detectability – 5.1 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 3.6 km. Available consumables: Slot 1 - Damage Control Party Slot 2 - Hydroacoustic Search (Duration time 120 s; Torpedo detection range 4.0 km; Ship detection range 6.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3) Slot 3 - Defensive AA fire All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers but with best available modules. The stats are subject to change during the testing. German destroyer ZF-2, Tier VIII: German destroyer ZF-2, tier VIII Hit points – 16,700. Plating - 19 mm. Main battery - 1x2 128 mm, 3x1 128 mm. Firing range - 11.9 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 1,450. Chance to cause fire – 6%. HE initial velocity - 880 m/s. Maximum AP shell damage - 2,950. AP initial velocity - 880 m/s. Reload time - 6.5 s. 180 degree turn time - 18.0 s. Maximum dispersion - 104 m. Sigma – 2.00. Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 8.0 km. Speed - 64 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time – 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km. AA defense: 1x2 128.0 mm. 3x1 128.0 mm. 2x2 30.0 mm. 2x4 30.0 mm. 2x1 55.0 mm. AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 116, hit probability - 95 %, action zone 0.1-3.0 km; AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 70, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-4.0 km; AA defense long-range: continuous damage per second - 53, hit probability - 100 %, action zone 0.1-6.0 km; Number of explosions in a salvo - 3, damage within an explosion - 1470, action zone 3.5 - 6.0 km. Maximum speed - 35.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 670 m. Rudder shift time – 3.9 s. Surface detectability – 7.4 km. Air detectability – 3.2 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 2.8 km. Available consumables: Slot 1 - Damage Control Party Slot 2 - Main Battery Reload Booster (Duration time 15 s; Main battery recharge time -50%; Reload time 100 s; Charges 4) Slot 3 - Hydroacoustic Search (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.5 km; Ship detection range 5.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3) Sincerely with the stats we got this line looks underwhelming to say the least. A slow line of DDs with a focus on hunting down broadside CLs seems overspecialized and an easy xp pinata. DPM is underwhelming to say the least and very curious on what the "great armor for class" represents. If these formed the lower tier basis of a German CL line I could see them somewhat working, but not like this. ZF-2 deserves separate mention as the model appears to be different from genuine blueprints. Dunno what to make of it, or of the whole concept.
  19. The Kléber This is a ship that, when it came out, was pretty broken, as evidenced by the wolfpacks we saw in Clan Battles and KOTS. Then, its concealment was nerfed in 9.0, and many people forgot about it, shoved out of the spotlight, never to return... I know, pretty melodramatic. Anyway, on to the review. Quick Disclaimer: I am only a 54% WR player on NA, so take this all with a huge grain of salt. I do have a 59% WR in Kléber over about ~700 games, but this is meant to be more informative. There will be tips, especially with the captain build at the end, but since there are players like Gaishu with 80%+ WRs don't take this advice over much of anyone else's. Credit: Since I am lazy, I will being used WoWs FT for many of the images, so credit goes to them. Skill Floor: Very Challenging. -DDs in general are a difficult class to play, and playing a smokeless DD with poor torp range with no opportunities to inflect harm-free damage, this is doubly so. Skill Floor: High/Very High -Kleber's unique toolkit has the potential to be devestating in the right hands. CVs however can be a major limiting factor. Sections: -Main Battery -Torpedoes -Defense/Hull Mechanics -Concealment -Agility -AA (ha....just no) -Consumables -Upgrades/Captain Skills -Conclusion Main Battery: Kleber sports 8 139 mm barrels, the highest T10 DD caliber in the game, at least until the German DD split is released. These guns are key to Kléber's playstyle, and as such, a detailed look is required. First, let's take a look at the firing angles of Kléber: As you can see, Kleber has excellent firing arcs. In fact, it has the best gun firing arcs out of all T10 DDs. As LWM has often said, 30 degrees or less constitute excellent arcs. As such, Kleber's unified 24 degree arcs are best in class. This comes in handy in many situtions. For example, when kiting (a very strong position for Kleber, as I will discuss later), Kleber can maintain very heavy angling to a target. While this isn't as important in a DD, who don't have armor to angle shells against for the most part, it can be used to reduce overall damage taken. It also allows Kleber to have a very aggresive angle of attack, particularly when pushing and threatening DDs. Use these to your advantage. Let's look at some general stats for her gunnery: 8 139 mm guns 4x2 turrets 13.6 km range 18 sec turn time 7 sec reload. 2000 HE alpha 10% fire chance 2700 AP alpha Standard ricochet angles (45-60) 23 mm threshold (standard 0.025 fuse) That's quite a lot of data! Here are some DPM numbers: 137,143 HE DPM (stock) 164,046 HE DPM (MBM3 + nerfed BFT) 185,143 AP DPM (stock) 221,463 AP DPM (MBM3 + nerfed BFT) As you can see, Kleber's stock HE DPM is quite pitiful. It has comparable DPM to a stock Shima or a stock Z-52. Not exactly impressive. Main Battery Reload Booster enhances this when needed, of course, and Shimas probably won't build for guns, but still. You won't want to fight any serious gunboats without your reload booster to back you up, so be careful. However, these guns do have some advantages to compensate. For one, the pure alpha is quite impressive. Kleber as both the highest HE and AP alpha strike of any T10 DD, with only Khaba and Marceau coming close. 3-4k HE salvoes against DDs aren't at all uncommon, and 5k AP pen salvoes to chunky BBs (I'm looking at you Vermont) are definitely a factor. It also means that you can push up to finish off a low-health gunboat even with your reload booster, relying on alpha strike to clutch the engagement. Just make sure to land these shells. The second advantage these 139's have is their reach. For starters, these guns have the best stock range of all DDs in the game, at 13.6 KM. This allows Kleber to project her influence a good distance. A component of that is Kleber's ballistics. Here's a chart of 5 T10 DDs: Gearing, Daring, Shima, Kleber, and Khaba (Kleber is in pink): Kleber's ballistics are, again, best in class for a T10 DD, with only Khaba being the tiniest bit faster at close ranges. This allows Kleber to not only harass BBs at extreme ranges, but also nail escaping DDs. With some good aim and a little luck, you can anil dds for 2k HE salvoes even at 9+ km. In fact, using your agility, you can outfight certain gunboats at around 10km, juking their shells but nailing them. In one game (which I sadly don't have recorded), I outfought two Harugumos at around 10-11 km. I had full health, but no reload booster, and they both had like 20k HP. However, I juked most of their shells, and whittled them down. This certainly isn't the norm, but do be aware you can take gunfights without reload booster in certain situtions. That's why it can often be good to hang outside a cap circle, not to contest and get detected, but to nail some DDs that your friendly DD is trying to kill. The final part of Kleber's guns is their outstanding AP penetration. As see on the graph, Kleber has better pen than all DDs at T10, and it's not even particularly close. Khaba, again, is the closest, but even he has roughly 50 mm less pen at most ranges, around only 3/4 of Kleber's pen. The pen is so good, it even rivals many light cruisers. For example: Once you get within about 12 km, Worcester's pen becomes greater, with Mino beating Kleber pen at about 9 km. However, as you can glean from these charts, Kleber's AP penetration is excellent, even outstanding for a destroyer. Combined with your generally shorter engagement ranges than those light cruisers, you can easily citadel many light and superlight cruisers. Most angling will defeat the pen, except at close ranges, but perfect broadsides are very vulnerable. You can citadel Minotaurs at 11-12 km, with their thin armor. Smolensks and Colberts are even worse: those can be citadelled at 13 km with flat broadside. Worcesters are a good amount trickier (and more dangerous), but around 7-8 km will probably be good enough. Closer with Des Moines, as it has 152 mm citadel unlike Worcester's 127 mm, but around 5 km. Here is a general list of cruisers and their ease to citadel: Extremely Easy: -Colbert -Smolensk -Austin (Probably, but it is WIP) Fairly Easy: -Minotaur Average: -Zao (Mostly because of the weird shape) -Worcester -DM Hard -Hindenburg (Actually works better at 10-11 km because of the turtleback, but still difficult) -Nevsky (Layered Armor) -Henri (Spaced Armor) -Moskva (Thick armor, but good results at 3-4 km ranges) Very Hard: -Stalingrad (Thick armor, but easy at very close ranges) -Petro (Thick armor + low freeboard) -Goliath (Thick and spaced, but possible at close ranges) As you can see, a little less than half the T10 cruisers can be citadeled at our above 8 km. Since your detection is 7.8 km when fully rigged, this means that you can get the jump on certain cruisers and citadel them. Another good tactic is to charge smoke cruisers (Smolensk/Mino), detect them, and then kill them. Just be careful because your smoke detect when firing is pretty high at 4.15 km. For the rest, you can't charge them in the open. If they are low hp (like 15k or less) you can aim for the upper belts and then reload boost, but that is less reliable. For some of those, like island campers (DMs and Moskvas) a viable tactic is charge around the island, get their broadside, and citadel, though in that case, torps are probably a better option. As far as Petros go, just don't. Like, don't even try. Their freeboard and thickness make them very difficult to cit. Henri and Goliath however, with their large freeboards are good targets for raw pen damage. Mostly, this comes down to experience. Angling, positioning, and cruiser belt armor knowledge are all key to pulling off a successful ambush on a cruiser. For starting Kleber players, Minos are good because of their general extreme vulnerability to citadels. Just be careful of the super-heal. That about sums up Kleber guns. I will go into more detail in Consumables when I talk about the Main Battery Reload Boost, but keep in mind, good use of your guns (since you are first and foremost a gunboat) is key to doing well in this ship. Torpedoes: Kleber's torpedoes are very interesting, in that they look bad on paper, but are quite useful in reality. Again, let's start with the firing arcs: Like the torpedoes, Kleber has god-tier firing arcs on her torpedoes. This is a great advantage when both yoloing (as you don't have to angle much to use your torps) and kiting (as you can easily dump both sets behind you). Next, let's get some general stats: 4 x 3 550 mm torpedoes 8 km range 18,400 alpha 77 reload time 75 kts of speed 1.8 detection 9.2 sec reaction time Kind of a data dump, but as you can see you can see these torps have 3 main characteristics: 1. They hit hard. 18400 alpha, while not challenging the likes of Japanese torpedoes, handily beats Halland torps, Daring torps, and Grozovoi torps. So, overall, pretty respectable alpha for a T10 warhead. 2. They are speedy. While nothing like Halland's 86 kts missiles, they are close to second otherwise, only beaten by Shima's F3s and Smaland's torps. This is also very useful in a yolo situation, since more speed = less time for the target to react, since they will be spotted anyways. 3. They have crappy range. Seriously, they are easily worst in the tier, with the exception of Khaba, who has even worse ones at 6 km. This is the range you would expect to see on a T6 or 7 DD, not a T10 one. This range is very deceptive, however. While you can only barely stealth torp, you can extend your window of stealth by up to 2 km in certain situations. How? Well, torpedoes have a significent travel time, with Kleber's torps taking almost exactly 40 seconds to complete their 8 km run time. During this time, any enemy that is pushing up torwards you will cover some ground. It's hard to get consistent numbers, since the enemy's angle of attack and speed will vary, but a good estimate is this: An enemy pushing torwards you at a 45 degree angle for sharper will probably cover about 2 km before your torps run out. That means if an enemy (say a Montana) is at 10 km and pushing sharply towards you, and you launch torps at him, they will make it there. This takes some judgement, but again, experience is key. This is probably the best way to make use of the torps; harassing kiting enemies. If you get a flood and they damage con, you can reload boost and set them on fire. The second piece to the torps is the DPM. Not many people realize this, but Kleber has top-tier torp DPM. In fact, it has better stock torp DPM than any other DD at T10 DD, until they build for it. Here is a quick ranking of the top 5 stock torp DPM at T10 (and I threw in Benham cause why not.) 1. Kleber: 172,051 2. Benham: 171,670 3. Shimakaze (12 km): 139,805 4. Gearing (10.5 km): 110,871 5. Khabarovsk (kek): 92,125 Pretty crazy, right? Kleber has the highest theoretical torp DPM of any T10 DD, even beating Benham (though only by a fraction). What does this mean? Well, if you can use those tricks I talked about earlier, you can dump a crazy amount of torps back at the pushing enemy forces. Of course, many of these other ships will build for torps, so you will get beaten, but it is cool to think about. In summary: Kleber's torps serve two solid purposes: They are excellent for yolo situations with strong alpha-per side and excellent arcs, and are also suitable for kiting, with their top-tier reload and, again, good arcs. Just be wary of the range: many a time I set up the perfect torp salvo on an enemy BB, only for him to slightly angle out, and the torps to run out right in front of them. You just have to get used to it, it is part of the Kleber experience. Defense/Hull Mechanics: HP: 21,900 Kleber is certainly one of the most interesting T10 DD hulls. While it has no special armor (so I won't both showing a graphic), it does have some nice features. For one, the health is very competitive. It is beaten only by the Khaba (only by 600 hp) and the Harugumo, as of now, and is of course tied with the Marceau. DDs with less HP but heals, like Grozovoi, Daring, and Halland, do have higher theoretical health, but as I will show, this has less of an impact than you might think. The French DD line in this game has a special satuaration gimmick. Essentially, it means two things: one, the ship saturates much faster than other DDs, and two, its center hull component can (and will) saturate, unlike other DDs, who normally can only saturate their nose and stern. It's difficult to get hard numbers on this, since saturation is depend on where the damage is taken and in what amount, and that varies from game to game. Best summarized, this mechanic allows the Kleber to saturate much quicker, and, since full saturation results in half damage in HE pens, means it can tank a significant more amount of DD fire than you would think. To put it another way, Kleber's fully upgraded health of 25,400 (without Auboyneau) is, in practice, more equivalent to around 30-32k health. This isn't stricly true, as saturation doesn't increase your health and instead decreases damage, but it is a good approximation. This means that you can take gunfights with other DDs at a good amount lower health than other DDs would dare. This is especially useful in the late stages of the game, when you might have to chase down other DDs, and you can count on taking less damage overall. Because of your already high health pool, you are in practicality probably the tankiest T10 DD, with the obvious exception of Khaba (since it has a heal and 50 mm plating). Use this to your advantage, and be aware that saturation shows up as black marks and patterns on your ship's hull in game, eventually making that whole section blackened, so try to keep track of that as the match progresses. A final note: because you have no heal, and no smoke, health management is key to winning games. If you lose too much health at the end, you probably won't be able to yolo that key battleship or cruiser, so try not to lose too much health at the beginning. Having 18k+ health in the last 10 minutes (when it looks like it will be a close match) is a good marker to work torwards. Concealment: Stock Surface Conceal (with camo): 9.58 km Stock Air Conceal (with camo): 5.38 km Upgraded Surface Conceal (with camo): 7.76 km Upgraded Air Conceal (with camo): 4.36 km Kleber's concealment is horrible. The surface concealment is the worst of all T10 DDs, except for Khaba. Additionally, the air conceal is also the worst among all T10 dds, bar none, so carriers are a huge threat (as I discuss in AA). Interestingly, the upgraded conceal, 7.76, is just about the range where you can reliably citadel most light cruisers. Accordingly, you must manage this conceal well. I wouldn't recomment compromising your conceal in any way, like Fearless Brawler, sinceconceal gives you a tiny range within which your torps have your range but you are not detected. Personally, I wouldn't want to take that opportunity away, but it is personal choice. I won't go on too much, just to add that this large conceal precludes you from taking caps too early. Unless you know for sure their is no DD nearby, I would stay out of caps until the mid-late game, when hopefully the cruisers have been thinned out. This is definitely Kleber's weakest point, so managing your conceal is also key to a good game. Agility Base Speed: 44 kts +Speed Flag: 46.2 kts Turning Radius: 740 m Rudder Shift: 4.8 sec On the flip side, Kleber's agility is another strong point. While the turning circle is a little on the large side, and the rudder shift isn't great, those are more than compensated by the outstanding 44 kts speed. Additionally, Kleber has the 20% French engine boost, meaning with the flag and your boost active, you can break 55 kts. Except for Yolo Emilio, you are the fastest ship in the game, and functionally the fastest because your boost also lasts for an excellent 3 minutes, compared to the standard 2 minute boost. This also means that you can juke shells quite effectively. You can also outrun CV torps (except some German and Japanese ones upgraded). This speed is one of your greatest strengths. Another bonus is that you can run down dds very effectively. A good choice of prey for a Kleber player is a Halland. With only 6 km detect, quite slow speed, and no smoke, Halland is very vulnerable to a good Kleber player. If you catch a Halland, they can't run and can't hide, as the saying goes. Other slow DDs, like Gearings, are also vulnerable. Another strength is for yoloes. You can come racing around the corner of an island in the blink of an eye, and with your fantastic yolo torps, this turns Kleber into a god-tier yolo machine. This speed can get you in trouble though, with your high conceal, so be careful AA: Just no. Kleber has the horrible distinction of being the only T10 DD of having a worse AA range than air conceal, at a pitiful 3.8 km range. You also have 0 flak puffs. Your dps (210 stock) isn't that bad, but overall, your AA is trash. Combined with your crappy air conceal and lack of smoke, your are exceedingly vulnerable to CVs of all types. As much as I hate to say it, staying back and grouping up for the first few minutes when a CV is in the game is not a bad idea. While you would like to scout, trust me from experience, CVs will focus you relentlessly. This your critical downside. Be always aware of it Consumables: Damage Con: (5 s active period, 40 sec cooldown). Standard damage con. Nothing special Main Battery Reload Booster: (15 sec active period, 100 sec cooldown) - 4 charges. This is a key part of Kleber's ambush style. This doubles your dpm for the 15 second active period. In makes both your HE and APM DPM top of the bunch, with your HE DPM reaching over 270k stock, and close to 330k fully upgraded. This allows you to either shred a DD or brutalize a broadside cruiser. Strategic use of this consumable is key, but don't always be hasty to use it. While I very rarely run out in a match, the cooldown is limiting. For example, if you pop it right when a DD is spotted, and then it goes dark a second later, you just wasted it. A good tip is keep track of who is spotting who. If the DD is spotted by a radar, you probably should go ahead and use your consumable. If, however, they just used smoke, I would hold off. Just be aware, a wasted consumable means over 1 1/2 minutes till your next consumable is ready. Engine Boost: (180 sec active period, 90 sec reload time) - 3 charges. This is also key. A 20% boost in speed is huge, and it also provides a sizable boost in acceleration/deceleration. This can be quite useful for speed-juking. Because of the long-duration of this consumable, it can be used much more freely. However, I would want at least one of these consumables left for the end game when needed, as it is important for those all-too-fun yolos. Upgrades/Captain Skills: I'm going to start with the upgrades, which for me are pretty straightforward: Slot 1: MAM1: Pretty obvious, you want to protect your all important guns and torps. The magazine mod is an option, but you can always run Juliet Charlies instead. Slot 2: EBM1: You want to boost that speed boost duration. This makes it go from 180 secs to 234 secs, a not huge but useful increase. If you don't have the special upgrade, Engine Room Protection is the default choice. Slot 3: MBM2: Kleber's turrets are quite slow, at 18 sec for 180. Your dispersion is already pretty good (it's a DD), so I probably wouldn't take Aiming Systems. The torp tubes mod is nice for the extra speed, but having the fast turning turrets is useful. Slot 4: PM1: Your rudder shift is already pretty good, so their isn't much reason to take that. The accel, however, it useful for speed juking, a quite effective tactic combined with your Engine Boost. Slot 5: CSM1: Pretty obvious. Still a very strong upgrade, not really any other good options. Slot 6: MBM3: Your guns are your strong point, you want to make them batter. While range is an option, as I discuss in Captain Skills, I generally don't upgrade range on Kleber. Finally, its time for captain skills. This is my current build, minus Gun Feeder (Expert Loader), as my captain is currently only 20 points: First 10 points: -Grease the Gears: None of the other 1 points skills are as good, and that extra turret traverse is quite nice. -Last Stand: Always will be a key skill, never a bad choice on DDs. -Survivability Expert: More HP is always nice, especially on a DD like Kleber where HP conservation is so key. -Concealment Expert: A very powerful skill. Even on gunboats like Kleber, concealment and the spacing opportunities it provides are always useful. Next 8 points: -Adreneline Rush: More reload is always better. Since you will often be on lower health near the end of the match, you can get some super filthy DPM at the end of the match. With a full gun build and at 80% health, you have the same burst DPM as a Worcester when reload booster is active. Like I said, super filthy in the right situation. -Main Battery and AA Specialist: Basically a nerfed BFT. Even with the nerf, more reload for no penalty at all is useful on Kleber. The 10% AA boost is also nice to have on a ship with so bad AA already. -Priorty Target: Even with the point increase, this skill is still very useful. When you are on a flank and farming BBs, it is useful to know who is aiming at you, as it can give you an idea if a DD is nearby. Final 3 points (These are more flexible, I think these skills are less useful and more interchangable): -Gun Feeder: With your slow reload, if a cruiser pops up broadside, I find it pretty useful. More useful than you would think for a DD. -Consumables Specialist: Just reduces your Reload Booster cooldown from 100 to 90 seconds. While minor, because of how dependent Kleber is on the Reload Booster for killing DDs and Cruisers, this skill is somewhat useful -Preventative Maintnence: While 30% is minor, DD modules are very vulnerable, so this is actually a nice skill to have. Other Options Here are some 4 point skills that I think are decent but I personally don't take: Main Battery and AA Expert: Just AFT. While definitely viable for long-range spammy builds, I honestly find 13.6 km to be more than enough most of the time. Again, certainly viable, but not as useful. Radio Location: RPF. I tried this before, and while I think it is viable, it is less useful. This is honestly better on torp DDs, where you need to be aware of gunboats. Kleber can 1v1 pretty much any DD if played well, so I don't use it. Just personal opinion of course. Fearless Brawler: 10% reload, like i've said, is nice. More DPM is always great. However, it is 4 points, and you also lose 5% conceal, driving your conceal to be above 8 km. Like I said before, there is nice synergy between the 7.8 conceal and the 8 km torps/citadel potential on light cruisers. Conclusion: Well, I hope this 59% WR Kleber review/guide was helpful. I don't really post much on the forums, so this is my first major post of any length. I'd love some feedback, so any you have is helpful. P.S. While the standard the permacamo for 5k doubloons is nice, the French Navy one they added a year or so ago is pretty snazzy. Good luck captains, and make the Kléber proud!
  20. Shannon_Lindsey

    Benham and Black

    Is there any chance of either the Black or the Benham becoming regularly available again? The wonderful thing about US tech tree DDs is that they can effectively be built into Gun boats, torpedo boats, of AA boats. The premiums tend to be more specialized. That said, I hope to be able to keep a variety of US DDs available depending on division and/or clan need in the future. I will not be running AA boats on odd tiers for obvious reasons. The thing is, since Fletcher can go either gun or torpedo, I would like to set it up to compliment if either of the tier 9 premiums become available again since Benham is a great torpedo boat, and Black is a really good gun boat. Any thoughts?
  21. Hi all, Destroyers were always a fun ship type to play. So how about considering a new Tier 10 Premium destroyer for the US navy? Idea - I had this idea since starting from 10.0.2, USS Somers will become unavailable to obtain from the Armory for an undefined period of time. Although it will be replaced by the USS Austin, there will be no Tier 10 Premium Destroyers for US Navy. You might think that we don't even need a Tier 10 Premium destroyer for the US Navy, but in World of Warships, starting from Tier 5 (US), every tier has a premium destroyer: T5 Hill, T6 Monaghan, T7 Sims/ Sim B, T8 Kidd, T9 Benham and Black, and no T10 premium destroyer after 10.0.2 :( USS Allen M. Sumner DD-692. Ship Length - 376 feet Beam - 40 feet Draft - 15 feet Speed - 34 knots Hit Points - between 18,000 - 20,000 Armaments Main guns - Three 130mm double-barrelled guns Rate of Fire - 20 shots/minutes Reload time - 3 seconds Firing Range - between 12 - 13km Maximum HE Shell Damage - 2,200 Maximum AP Shell Damage - 2,600 AA Defence Twelfth 40mm Bofors Average damage per second - between 90 - 130 Firing Range - between 3 - 4km Eleven 20mm Oerlikon Average damage per second - between 45 - 65 Firing Range - between 2 - 3km Torpedoes Two quintuple(5) Torpedo launchers Torpedo Warhead - 533mm Rate of Fire - between 0.85 - 0.66 shots/ minutes Reload Time - between 70 - 90 seconds Firing Range - 16.5km Torpedo Speed - 66 knots Maximum Damage - 20,000 Possible Consumables Damage Control Party Smoke Generator/Hydroacoustic Search Engine Boost/ Enhanced AA Defence
  22. In those German dds where you have a choice, which gun caliber do you chose, the 128 or the 150 mm? The 150 mm are real thumper guns that can punish broadside cruisers with AP, but their ROF is a disadvantage in a close-quarters fight with other dds. I've chosen the 128's in the past as a default but now I'm questioning my choice. Are the different calibers better in different battle modes (Random vs Ranked, vs Scenario, etc.)?
  23. PapaOoooPowPow

    Bots Auto-Detect/Follow

    DD Bots Auto-track. I've suspected this for some time but didn't care much because Co-Op is pretty easy however... I just had a Co-Op (Torp-Dam Mission Grind) match with my Shinonome/19pt.Yamamoto on Bees to Honey (saved the game and watched it again to make sure). As I spawned opposite to the enemy LeFantastique Bot, I chose disgression over valour and went wide (AA Off) to spot for the team and hit their BB+CV. Even though I was NOT DETECTED OR TARGETED (no Surface or Planes or AIM [Priority Target]) even once, the LeFantastique beelined for me, changed course twice, followed me around an island, caught-up to me and THEN spotted/attacked me just before I was to torp their BB! This was ridiculous. I get that Bots are meant to be challenging, but players use Co-OP to train/test/try (especially new players) and this AUTO-TRACKING is counterproductive as smart play (staying undetected to avoid ships that will kill you) is NOT rewarded... Wargaming should change this... I saved the match of course.
  24. SedatedApe

    I Hate DDs

    Keep seeing so many discussions about CV hate. Fair is fair....lets have one for those that hate DDs and how they have unlimited torps, how some are invisible until the are 8 feet away, and how they don't have muzzle flash while gunning from smoke. Here's the discussion many of you have been waiting for!!! Let the games begin...
  25. CaptainZade_NA

    Did I Do Good Here?

    I was a bit uncomfortable while playing it because I already felt pressure the time the game started. I let my teammates know that I'm new to playing DD play, and that I'm mostly used to cruisers and battleships, I did my best to spot for the team but they really didn't seem to take advantage of it. But at least I sunk their Vauquelin, Farragut, and Skane. I'm hopeful about DDs for now