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  1. I have been playing this line for some time now. I was having some fun, but then at tier 7 everything is just really bad. I'm constantly uptiered, have to fight Yugumos and Fletchers, and I'm constantly spotted. My torps are sh*t and everyone sees them super early. Frankly, I'm not willing to be doing this crap for 2 more tiers before getting Shimakaze, which also seems shafted at its tier. So should I just quit a d grind something else? And if so, what should I start grinding? I'm thinking about continuing the IJN cruiser line (have furutaka) or the Russian cruiser line (have svietlana).
  2. I spied a Kiev with my Cleveland just now, led the customary 10 on the dynamic scale, and let go a salvo. No result. I didn't see where the shots landed as I was targeting some planes at the time. I returned my view to the Kiev and aimed again, the shots fell behind. I went to 15 on the scale, the shots fell behind. I then tried 20... and got blown up by a BB that had targeted me while I was messing around trying to figure out the lead on the stupid Kiev. Man but those Russian DDs are fast!
  3. Had a pretty lucky game in Shinonome. Yamamoto's special self repair gave the ship just enough HP to get the 6th kill.
  4. Introduction: Kagero is a strong destroyer stuck in an unfortunate match making bracket. The ship's main strength is the combination of its top of the line camouflage and situational but exceptional torpedoes. The author wishes this article to be of help for other players that are having difficulties with this particular destroyer. The article will explore the reasons behind the drastic below average performance of the ship on average and offer some of the author's personal experience to tackle the problems. Ship Characteristics Key Notes: Please visit Wargaming's wiki site for more details, this section covers some ship characteristics that are not listed in the wiki. Camo - 5.4 km with Concealment Expert (CE) and Concealment System Modification 1. Torpedoes - Both stock and upgraded torpedoes have a maximum range of 10 km, the upgraded torpedoes have a velocity of 67 knots while the stock is 62. The configuration of the torpedoes are mid ship and thus the firing angle is severely limited. Reload speed is almost two minutes together with only 8 torpedoes per salvo is very punishing if Kagero misses a torpedo salvo. With the captain's skill Torpedo Acceleration, the top configuration Kagero can have "the poor man's F3", 72 knots torpedoes at 8 km range. The limitation of the firing angle means that engaging enemy ships with torpedoes requires the DD to turn almost full broadside. It is recommended to pre empt turning the ship in order to orient it for a full torpedo salvo. The limited firing angle also means that at close range (sub 3.5 km), engaging fast enemy ships is difficult if not impossible due to inadequate lead on the firing solution. The 2 x 4 configuration of the tubes, when firing with tight spread, it is easy to land all torpedoes against a single enemy ship - enough damage to sink a Großer Kurfürst in a single salvo. The tube's configuration also allows a over lapping double spread from both tubes to tightly cover an area, virtually living no room for an enemy destroyer hiding in smoke to dodge the salvo. Guns - Great shell velocity but limited damage output due to reload time. Extremely limited range as well as battleship like turret traverse. Two out of three turrets are in the aft of the ship and due to the configuration firing angle to use all three turrets are limited. Limits to fire all turrets fore. Limits to fire all turrets aft. As the pictures above demonstrated keeping all three guns firing requires the Kagero to turn perpendicular to the target. The slow traverse speed also means engaging fast enemy ships with all three turrets close range is difficult. Sub 3 km range, a fast moving enemy target can out run turret's turning speed even if Kagero attempts to turn the entire ship to compensate. This together with the limited torpedo firing angles means in theory a fast moving destroyer can fire on the Kagero at extreme close range without suffering any retaliation. Ship Size - though the ship is narrow but the length of the ship is very long. This together with the turret firing angle limitations make the Kagero vulnerable to torpedoes firing into her smoke cloud. Highly recommend Kagero to orientate such that limited area of the ship are facing potential torpedo attacks. Handling - Rudder shift is exceptional, the ship can easily using the turn rate to dodge a torpedo traveling at 60 knots at max detection range. Quick turns also makes it very likely to dodge CV cross drops as well as dense torpedo soups, if Kagero's original orientation is favorable. The ship bleeds speed quickly when turning, a U - turn can reduce the ship's speed to 25 knots. The ship can go reverse to a max of 12.5 knots. Kagero's acceleration from standing is poor together with bleeding speed while turning makes the ship vulnerable when sitting in smoke or poking corners. Overall handling also makes dodging successive dive bomber squads difficult. The ship's top speed is low compare to other DDs in the match making bracket. It is recommended to use engine boost as a way to escape enemy DDs that are nearing your camo value's limits. Engine boost together or without Propulsion Modification 2 can also greatly help Kagero's corner poking abilities. Captain Skill Recommendations: Kagero is a torpedo boat, gun characteristics are too horrible to shoe horning it into a gunboat. Recommended Captain Skills: Preventive Maintenance 1 Point Reduces the risk of ship modules becoming incapacitated -30% to the risk of incapacitation of modules Torpedo Acceleration 2 Points Increase the speed of torpedoes launched from both ships and aircraft by reducing torpedo range +5 knots to torpedo speed -20% to torpedo range Last Stand 2 Points When the engine or steering gears are incapacitated, they continue to operate but with a penalty Torpedo Armament Expertise 3 Points Reduces reload time of torpedo tubes and servicing time of torpedo bombers -10% to reload time of torpedo tubes -20% to reload time of torpedo bombers Superintendent 3 Points Increases capacity of consumables +1 additional charge to all consumables mounted on a ship Radio Location 4 Points Shows the direction to the nearest enemy ship. The enemy player will be alerted that a bearing was taken on their ship. This skill will not work if a player is playing with an aircraft carrier. Concealment Expert 4 Points Reduces ship detectabilty range -10% to detectability of destroyers -12% to detectability of cruisers -14% to detectability of battleships -16% to detectability of aircraft carriers Radio Location is used to dodge enemy DDs, due to the camo value at the high match making bracket, even though Kagero may spot an enemy DDs first it may not have enough time to turn away from it (low speed, bleeds speed when turning, also fast enemy DDs). So it is important to pre orientate or slow down the ship to anticipate a potential encounter with enemy DD. The skill also allows the Kagero to charge smoke and lay down a salvo to kill an invisible enemy DD hiding in the smoke. Superintendent is questionable. The skill can be substitute with Vigilance due to the current meta of DDs liking to spread their torps into smokes. Survivability Expert is also a good alternative due to Kagero's comparatively low HP, only 15600. Play Style: Mentality - Be patient. Exceptional camo value might lure the player to be overly aggressive thus exposing the ship to dangers that are preventable. Be aggressive, patience does not mean cowardice. Combining a good map sense, the Kagero can be an exceptional scout for the team and can easily employed in Smoke + Spot combos. Execution - As all main line IJN destroyers, the Kagero is a torpedo boat with self defense canons. Other DDs (except IJN DDs) in the same match making tier will have at least 25% more damage per minute output than the Kagero. Kagero's rate of fire of 8.5 rounds per min in 2 x 3 configuration also means missing even a single shot can be very punishing. Together with almost none existent turret turning speed means a gun duel with enemy DDs is highly not recommended. Guns should be used in situations where the Kagero is in a situation that cannot be spotted (in a smoke or behind cover) or to finish off enemy DDs (when they can be killed in 2 or 3 salvos). DO NOT hope the enemy DD's some how incompetent and tries to "out shoot" it. At this match making tier, even an enemy may not have overall good game sense, by sheer numbers of games played they will not miss their shots. Practice to use her greatest strength, 5.4 km camo and 73 knots torpedoes in tight spreads. Highly recommend to enlarge the minimap and install mods that allows the display of ship names on the minimap. Keep track of every ship on the enemy team, if some enemy DDs have not been spotted be extra careful and together with RDF try to judge if the unspotted enemy DD may cross path with you during a torpedo attack run. Try to find holes in the enemy battle line and approach as close as possible without being detected and unleash a full salvo to your intended target. The goal is to kill a ship outright, not to main it but to sink it in one salvo. This is not difficult considering your torpedoes will be traveling at 73 knots in a very tight spread. In order for a successful torpedo attack to occur, the Kagero captain should keep track of the following factors: 1. Enemy DD location - any DD other than another Kagero will destroy you. Kagero cannot out run any other DD due to her 35 knots top speed. During a torpedo run the Kagero also has to turn almost full broadside thus drastically bleeds speed and making her a huge target. Also keep in mind Kagero cannot out gun any other DDs in the same match making bracket either. Thus, if spotted by an enemy DD in sub 7 km range, Kagero's pretty much doomed or at best escape severely crippled. 2. Knows which ships have Radar (list below). Due to the match making bracket, encountering radar is virtually guaranteed. If the enemy turns on their radar during your torpedo run, Kagero will be destroyed. Knowing which ships have radar is not enough. Kagero has to keep track of the cool downs as well. One way to trick the enemy to waste their radar is to skirt the edge of the radar limits and pop smoke, but don't stay in the smoke. Once detected by radar icon appears, run out of radar range, count the activation time, then go for a torpedo attack when radar's off. ALL radars have at least 120 seconds cool down. If an enemy cohesively pushes a point or flank with radar capable ships, just get out that entire area. It's impossible for Kagero to do anything against rotating radar activation and a giant ball of angry cruisers. Keep that list open while playing for quick reference. 3. Air planes, including float planes. Be extra vigilant when enemy has CVs. A competent CV player can make Kagero useless. Not only a high tier CV's dive bombers can kill the Kagero in a single sortie. A hovering squad of planes will also perma spot Kagero. Kagero's AA capacity is virtually zero against high tier CVs, just keep the AA off at all time. A tier 9 - 10's torpedo squadron (singular) is enough to kill the Kagero outright due to the tight spread and the damage. Highly recommend, when a game with CV present, not to even go near the objectives or key choke areas until enemy CV's planes have been spotted. Float planes are another bane in Kagero's existence. Due to the sheer area float plane covers and their persistence after launch ship's death. A single float plane can deny an entire area for Kagero to set up any attacks. Zombie float planes - the ones persistent after launching ship's sunk - are the most annoying. If a cruiser launches their floats near an objective before death, just leave the area the plane will be in the air for several minutes. Be aware, Kagero may not spot planes if it is hugging obstacles. But planes can still spot the Kagero even behind a mountain. To minimize dive bomber damage, turn your camera looking at the dive bomber squad approaching, before the bombs are release the squad (around 1.5 km out) will do a shuffle in the air, turn the ship immediate at the first hint of the shuffle. CV player would not be able to change orders pass that point and bombs will be released and hopefully missing the Kagero. To dodge torpedo squads... just don't go near them at all. 4. Sonars. Sonars cannot be checked like radars because due to the range when Kagero knows sonar's on it's already too late. Just don't let sonar capable ship get close. List of sonar capable ships below: Keep the list open for reference when playing. In top tier MM, there will often be charges led by Grosser Kurfurst. When that happens, sling torpes into the midst of enemy push ball and just run the other direction. Being a ninja is difficult, the list of things that directly counters the Kagero is long. But with some patience and daring, Kagero can and will find holes in the enemy defenses with its 5.4 km camo and do great damages. Keep in mind, general DD ambushing tactics as well as general torpedo firing guidelines apply. Torpedo firing guide lines such as a) fire a salvo perpendicular to the target and b) do not make your torpedoes chase a target is particularly important. Not only Kagero's torp reload is long and torp numbers limited, the limited range of the torps also makes chasing a target futile. Additional Thoughts: Kagero with its exceptional camo is a great addition to any three men tier 8 division. Kagero can be the spotter and disruptor while the other two in the division deal damage behind smoke or cover. Kagero's vulnerabilities against DD hunters/gunboats can also be supplemented by division together with its own DD gunboats. It is also possible to replace Smoke Generator with Torpedo Reload Booster. A skilled player can potentially stay outside detection in perpetuity and would have no need of hiding in smoke but uses the extra salvoes of torpedoes to deal decisive damage. Due to the extremely low win rate and average damage done. Kagero is a great WTR rating farmer. A masochistic player may want to play the ship to only maximizing damage done to farm unicum level ratings. The author performed (solo)... adequately in the ship - the rating would put the performing in the top 10 NA. But the author is often too aggressive as well as easily enraged, many games were lost due to unable to view the situation calmly. Let that be a caveat to other Kagero captains. Best case scenario for Kagero replay (170651 damage, Kraken, etc.) Hopefully, your experience in the Kagero is not chasing the mirage of victories but be the mirage that punishes the enemy with unseen and undodgeable torpedo salvos. ps: Yugumo, not looking forward to it at all. Just too many things that limits torpedo boats. Planes perma spot torps, radars, much faster enemy DDs............................................
  5. I'm deciding to go down the German DD line and I was just looking for general tips on how to play them... I'm Getting two crowds, either telling me to stop now because they're bad as all hell and the time would be better wasted trying to file a complaint to Wargaming Customer service...or people telling me they're awesome in versatility, and to play them like a stealthy CL with better than average torpedos and poor firing concealment. I just need some outside opinions...Thanks in advance!
  6. DD vs DD fight is extremely unrewarding. Not only it exposes both DDs to enemy concentrated fires, the winner usually coming out of the engagement severely wounded or even near death. There really should be some way to give DDs more confidence and encourage them to engage other DDs.
  7. Radar? I haven't read any news or anything really, this thread is based on a few model observations in-game. Now since the T9-10 DDs will probably be better Fletchers & Gearings (ok I'm half joking, I wouldn't be surprised if they were though ), there's a few things that stick out. Radar dishes of high tier USN radar capable ships: Radar incapable high tier USN ships: Upcoming high tier Pan Asian DDs: I don't know about you but those look like huge friggin radar dishes. T8 & below doesn't have that dish, so it's probably a high tier gimmick, like Russian DD heals. Of course this thread is a bunch of speculation so take it with a ocean of salt, just don't be surprised if they do get radar.
  8. So I've had Shimakaze forever, have Akizuki Shiratsuyu and Harekaze. Really liking the ghost-like Harekaze with TRB so much I'm thinking about buying Yugumo. I've never had the Yugumo... What's the word on this ship? It seems like a legit T9 torp boat. I just dumped Udaloi so I'd like a T9 DD. Is it worth it or will I just wish I took out Shima?
  9. So i reached tier 6 Fubuki which used to be tier 8 i think, anyway how to play her? I cant get in close like i did with Mutsuki, what do I do any suggestions?
  10. Hi guys! So, I was thinking this morning, and I realized that there are people even on this forum that don't realize that Tashkent actually existed. So, I figured I would dispel that notion and give a picture post at the same time! So without further introduction, the Soviet destroyer leader, Tashkent, the largest destroyer of her time. Pics found through google images. I start with an image of her under construction...I think. The haze and quality of the picture makes it difficult to tell. I will assume construction. She was a large destroyer, coming to only 2' shorter than the smallest dreadnought battleship (España) at 458' long, a width of 45', and a draft of 12'. Tashkent completed, and running sea trials sans armament. Her armament consisted of 6 x 5.1 inch B-13 guns in 3 dual B-2LM turrets; 2 x 3 inch M1938 AA guns in 1 dual mount; 6 x 37mm M1939 70K AA guns in 3 dual mounts; 6 x 12.7mm DShK 1938 AA machine guns; and 9 x 21 inch torpedo tubes in 3 triple centerline mounts. Tashkent at anchor, sans armament. She was delivered without her armament and reached a top speed of 43 knots on trials. Tashkent at anchor with preliminary armament. She was initially armed with three single 5.1 inch guns until her main guns were delivered in 1941. A forward view of Tashkent with her single 5.1" guns. Tashkent fully complete, from the starboard bow. She was painted a cobalt blue color and was nicknamed the "blue cruiser" by Russian sailors. A starboard beam view of completed Tashkent. Tashkent at port, with a submarine alongside. She served with the Black Sea Fleet and fought during the Siege of Sevastopol making 40 supply trips through the German Blockade. Tashkent underway, with guns A and B trained starboard and port respectively; the second pic features a wave crashing over her bow. A view from on top of the bridge tower, looking over the main fire control director, and the A and B turrets; a wave has just crashed over her bow. A view from above the bridge, in front of the fire control director, looking over the forward guns at a Gnevny-class destroyer. Tashkent offloading wounded soldiers at Novorossiysk. Tashkent sunk at port, following dive bomber attack. On June 28, 1942, she was bombed by Junkers Ju 87 Stukas and managed to reach Novorossiysk but foundered in the port on 2 July 1942. Tashkent sunk in Novorossiysk, her turrets have been salvaged for use on the destroyer, Ognevoi. Tashkent raised and undergoing scrapping. In his memoirs VN Eroshenko stated that: "The leader (Tashkent) steamed 27,000 miles, escorted without loss of 17 transports, carried 19,300 people, 2,538 tons of ammunition, food and other goods into Sevastopol. Held 100 live main caliber bombardments silenced 6 batteries and damaged one airfield. Shot down and damaged 13 enemy aircraft. Sank a torpedo boat." That is all folks I hope you enjoyed! Any suggestions of the next picture series are gladly appreciated. But, until then, as always: Fair winds and following seas captains!
  11. Which DD line would you suggest a noob-to-dds begins with? I'm leaning towards IJN because of their torps and concealment, and speed. They're intriguing to me in large part because I've been playing BBs 90% since I started up with WOWS just over a year ago and am a little fatigued of how slow they can be, in every way, not just knots - slow turrets, reload etc. Watching some DDs on youtube and, of course, being tormented by them while in BBs is leading me to think they might be fun. They'll certainly be a new and different experience in the game, and that alone is cool, and reason enough to dig into the class more. Any suggestions? What's good for a DD noob? Defintely leaning towards IJN, but might also start up USN line simultaneously. How about the Soviet line, German, . . . British? Oh, what's that? There aren't British DDs in the game?! NO?! Wait, what? There aren't even any British BBs? Now you're yanking my chain . . .
  12. I found myself playing my Anshan quite a bit during the past season of ranked, and it is a ship that I had only a few games in previously (I got it from a Christmas Box). During that time, I noticed that my shells always seemed to go lower than I was anticipating when aiming, especially when shooting dds at close to mid range. For example, a DD was angled coming toward me, so i aimed just below him, and my shots derped into the water. I then brought my aim up and aimed as though he was sailing broadside on to me, even though he was coming toward me, and my shells landed right on the mark. Has anyone else noticed this?
  13. Hello Everyone, I will make this short and sweet, new smoke firing penalty being tested for 0.6.9 . This is a WIP / Testing / Speculation . Please understand that by no means will this make it live. Here are the details. Source New Mechanic: Smoke-firing Penalty !! WARNING: We speculate that this new mechanic will work as follows. However, unveiling the actual effect requires further investigation. Now, smoke-firing will not be as pleasant as it used to be. Ships fire inside (or around) smoke screen will accelerate the dissipation of smoke. For example: Gearing's 1-click firing will reduce 0.24 (0.12×2) sec. lifetime of all smoke cloud in a radius of 630 meters. Larger caliber guns have better effect on smoke dissipating. The biggest 460mm has the basic smoke-dissipation penalty of 5.91 seconds. That is, each 1-click shot will cause 17.73 sec of smoke dissipation and one salvo will almost blow away an entire smoke screen! Opinion: This is not a good change, I hope it does not make it past testing. Discuss!
  14. So, Kelorn posted a very good commander skills guide yesterday, but he mentioned he didn't address DD skills due to not being as strong in DDs as he is in other ships. So I said I'd write a capt skills guide for DDs since I'm a DD main. Here it is. Intro and bona fides: I am above average in destroyer play (1117 WTR, 57% win rate over last 90 days), but certainly not unicum. I certainly advise players to look at multiple sources for advice besides this guide, as there are differing opinions as to optimal captain skills and I dislike the mentality many have of 'this is the one twue way to play DDs', but my captain builds do work well for my playstyle. I tend to play very aggressively in DDs, but I also prioritize winning over dealing damage and getting kills. For example, if I need to flex across the map to defend something or to cap when we need a cap, I do that even if it means lower personal damage, because I play for the win. On DDs that are pure damage-dealers like Khabarovsk, I may play more of a DPM-oriented style, but on boats that are good at cap control like USN DDs, I focus more on capping. And even in Khab I probably try to cap more than I should since so many DDs won't, but I digress. These builds are primarily optimized for maximizing chances to win matches while playing solo in random battles. The first build listed for each ship is intended to be a 'balanced' build that optimizes the strengths of that particular ship while providing the versatility to do other basic DD tasks (spotting, capping, cap control, and hunting/killing) as well as possible for that ship. Some ships have alternate builds listed that may work better if running in a division or in Ranked/Clan battles; these builds are usually a better build to optimize the ship's strengths if you have trusted teammates along to help in other tasks. The first build listed for each ship is what I am personally running on that ship except where I've noted that I am trying to decide between the listed builds. The two most discussed new skills and how I incorporate them: IF/HE: I use IF/HE on some boats but not others, as IF/HE is only a benefit if it allows the ship to penetrate armor it can't penetrate without the skill. Shiratsuyu, Akizuki, Clemson, Lenin, and Farragut all benefit from IF/HE as the ships they face often have armor that can be penetrated with IF/HE but not without, which makes it worth the 3% decrease in fire chance. Some DDs don't benefit, or they don't benefit enough to make it worth using 4 capt skill points and/or a 3% reduction in fire chance. See the following for more information about IF/HE, I used this information extensively in developing my captain builds and am indebted to the original posters for their work in these guides. Flametz's IF/HE guide Killjoy1941's IF/HE guide RPF/Radiolocation: I don't use this skill. Why? I have close to 5000 games in DDs. So I have very strong instincts for where DDs will go in a match, and I have very strong minimap awareness and know how long it takes for a DD to get from the point it was last spotted to other places on map. RPF has a high opportunity cost (4 points) and on every one of my ships, I'd have to give up other skills I really want to get RPF. Yes, it can be useful late-game. Yes, it can help you hunt other DDs, or know where the nearest unspotted ship is to avoid getting spotted yourself. However, not using RPF forces you to hone your instincts and gives you more available points for other skills. There are players that swear by using RPF. But I don't, and my builds reflect that. I recommend doing without. Even without having RPF, you get an icon on your screen when someone is locating your direction via RPF; I've had several kills now where I was able to use RPF against a player by determining where they were using the timing of me getting that icon. If I look at where other friendlies are when the icon pops up, I can often figure out where the ship using RPF is even if I haven't spotted them yet. RPF is a crutch, and for someone that hasn't played as much DD as I have, maybe a useful one for them, but I am a better player than I would have been otherwise because I learned how to anticipate where ships would be without using it. My DD builds. Notes: Each build's skills are listed in the order in which you should get them. If build is for less than 19 points, that means I really don't see a 'best' way to use the point left over. All builds assume that you are using the Concealment Upgrade Mod if DD is tier 8+. Shiratsuyu (this build is also good for Hatsuharu, and works well for Shinonome/Kamikaze) Primary (I use this one) - 'GunboatPOI' build : Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Advanced Firing Training, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, Alternate - 'TorpedoPOI' build: PM, LS, DE, CE, AFT, Torpedo Armament Expert, Adrenaline Rush Discussion: Given that I run premium torpedo reload booster, I choose to optimize my guns instead of my torps, especially since TAE is now a 3-point skill. Shiratsuyu can comfortably invisifire even without AFT, but she has good shell arcs and can land shots consistently even out to the edge of her AFT-extended range. IF/HE allows her to do direct penetration damage to 25mm plating, which means many sections of cruisers as well as the bow and stern of same-tier and lower BBs. The alternate build forgos IF/HE, but has a better fire chance because of it. You get faster torp reloads in between uses of torp reload booster (which may mean not needing to run the premium version) and can pick up an extra 2-point skill (I recommend adrenaline rush since I play aggressively and usually take damage throughout the game.) Akizuki (as Akizuki is very different from other IJN boats, this is a specialized build) Primary (I use this one) - Wreck Face build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, Advanced Firing Training. Discussion: Since I already had a 19-pt capt ready for Akizuki and at least two of the three 4-pt skills are must-haves to get the most out of her, I struggled with the order in which to equip skills if you don't have a 14-point captain at least. Basically, don't even bother playing Akizuki without *at least* a 14-point captain ready to go for her, as she's almost unplayable without IF/HE and either AFT or CE. Without IF/HE, she can't pen same-tier or higher DDs with HE shells.With IF/HE she's a fearsome DD hunter. DE offsets the lost fire chance from IF/HE. She has a workable invisifire window without CE or AFT (assuming you're running concealment upgrade mod.) AFT allows you to fire at ships 12+ km out, but CE increases your concealment so you can invisifire from closer-in. CE also improves her ability to control caps and be more versatile and survivable; it also helps keep her from being surprised by other DDs spotting her first and using their speed advantage to run her down and/or keep her spotted. With how low her speed is and because cap control is so important in randoms, I think CE is marginally more important than AFT. AFT is still important, because it gives her an even larger invisifire window and allows Akizuki to stay back where she's less likely to get run down, because she is the slowest DD by far in her tier range. Alternatively, if you give up AFT, you can get BFT and have two points left over for Adrenaline Rush. While I would not use the BFT+AR in place of AFT if you play mostly solo, it could be workable if you play in divisions a lot since you can rely on your divmates to cover you if you do get rushed by a faster ship. Clemson (Clemson is unique in the USN line and so this is a specialized build, all higher-tier USN DDs have terrible shell arcs and do not need AFT): Primary (I use this one) - Seal Club Extraordinaire build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Advanced Firing Training, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, Concealment Expert Alternate - Maximum DPM build: PM, LS, DE, AFT, IF/HE, Basic Firing Training, Adrenaline Rush. Discussion: I never ran CE on my Clemson until 0.6.0, as it precluded my ability to run DE and AFT and I play my Clemson like a Russian DD, merrily flying across the map spraying fire like a madman. However, I've tried CE now that I can do AFT+DE+CE and the extra .6km stealth does help a lot with capping early-game. I had a hard carry in Clemson this morning where the extra stealth kept me alive...we were down by 3 ships, and came back to win, but I would have been killed several times without the extra stealth window as I was able to keep from getting cornered and/or complete capping without getting seen. While Clemson is still first and foremost a gunboat and I don't worry about being spotted most of the time, it's a nice bit of versatility, and gives her a usable invisifire window. Clemson has very good shell arcs and so benefits from AFT. Starting with B-hull Nicholas, USN guns suffer from terrible ballistics and so I do not recommend AFT for other USN DDs. IF/HE allows you to penetrate the bow and stern of BBs. DE offsets the lowered fire chance of IF/HE. The alternate 'Maximum DPS' build listed boosts your gun ROF and increases both gun and torp ROF as you take damage, but you give up most of your invisifire window and lose a bit of versatility. I've tried both builds and I stay alive longer and do more damage with the primary build I listed and am able to secure caps better, which as I've mentioned is a big advantage in randoms as you often can't get capping help from other ships (especially in low tiers such as Clemson plays in) Farragut (this build is just as good for B-hull Nicholas or Mahan) Primary (I use this one) - Swiss Army Knife build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, AR, Survivability Expert (can alternate Basic Fire Training instead) Discussion: Farragut is the most underrated ship in the game, IMO. She is the best cap control boat relative to her tier in the game. She has an advantage in a knife fight versus almost any ship she sees; she's at least close to even against even Benson and Mahan. The only ship I really struggle to beat in a knife fight is Akizuki. Her torps are very good; you can't *quite* stealthtorp but you can come close, especially at ships that are coming toward you or angling toward you since there's only a .3km difference in torp range versus concealment range. She's fast, maneuverable, and tough. IF/HE is a big help for Farragut in penetrating BB bow and stern plating of T5-7 BBs as well as significant portions of still will not be able to penetrate t8 BBs except for the superstructure, but there's a lot of ships you'll penetrate more often than you did before if you use IF/HE. I use SE as the extra hp helps when knife-fighting, especially against a Mahan, Sims, or Benson. BFT is also a strong choice, they're neck and neck. Depends on your playstyle. I would definitely use SE in place of BFT with a Mahan or a Benson as the benefit from SE increases as one climbs tiers. Fletcher (also valid for Benson) Primary (I use this one) - Fletcher Gonna Fletch build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Survivability Expert, Basic Firing Training, Adrenaline Rush (alternatively, drop AR and you can get another 3-point skill like superintendent or torpedo armament expert) Discussion: Fletcher is the pinnacle of the USN line ( I prefer it even to Gearing), and the build I use is similar to my Farragut build. The main difference is IF/HE is of *very* limited benefit compared to Farragut, since they have the same guns but Fletcher sees mostly t8+ BBs, with thicker armor plating that resists penetration even with IF/HE equipped. I decided that for Fletcher, the higher fire chance without IF/HE outweighed the cruisers that Fletcher could penetrate with IF/HE but not without it. Also, Fletch has very good AA and gets more benefit from SE at tier 9, so dropping IF/HE allows one to get SE and BFT, and if you drop adrenaline rush you can even get TAE or Super. Since Fletcher is a very good stealthtorp boat, TAE is more attractive on her than most USN boats. Z-23 (150mm guns) Primary (I use this one) - Schadenfreude for Days build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, Adrenaline Rush, Survivability Expert. Discussion: I am not currently playing any other German DDs besides this, so can only discuss the 150mm Z-23. Not a fan of the DDs leading up to the Z-23 but the Z-23 with 150mm guns is a keeper; I've fallen in love with this boat. Once I get the tier 9 Z-46 and test some builds, I will edit this post to include a recommended build for 128mm gun-equipped German boats. While the 150mm guns have good ballistics, AFT (and BFT) have no effect on them, the only DD guns to not be affected by these skills. Then again, the 128mm guns on other German DDs don't have the shell arcs needed to make AFT an optimal choice anyway. The 150mm guns do have a much better fire chance than the 128s, so I chose to buff that fire chance with DE. IF/HE allows them to penetrate the bow and stern of enemy BBs up to t10 (except for Grosser Kurfurst bow) and large portions of most cruisers. These are gunboats and will take damage, so Adrenaline Rush helps boost the slow ROF of the 150mm guns as you take damage. Leningrad (assuming you have a dedicated captain for her) Primary - Glorious Soviet Stronk Victory build: PM, EM, Last Stand, DE, CE, AFT, Basic Firing Training Alternate (high risk) - In Soviet Russia, DD Penetrates You build: Priority Target, Expert Marksman, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert, Advanced Firing Training, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive Alternate - Speedy Sniper Build: PT, EM, LS, DE, AFT, IF/HE, BFT Discussion: Leningrad is a bit of an odd duck amongst Russian DDs in that she is a decent stealthtorp/cap control boat with CE, so I chose to keep CE as a 'must-have' skill on her for randoms. If I was divisioning more or playing her in competitive play, I'd probably use the sniper build as it accentuates her strengths, but for solo randoms I like the flexibility CE gives me for capping. The first build is a high-risk build; Leningrad has terrible turret traverse and badly needs EM to keep guns on target as she maneuvers, so you have to give up Last Stand in order to have CE, AFT, and IF/HE. With IF/HE, she can pen much of the plating of t7 BBs, although she still can't pen t8+ BBs anywhere but the superstructure so it's a trade-off. The second build gives up IF/HE. This lowers your penetration damage as you can't pen as many ships in as many places, but that does increase your fire chance and you're able to keep Last Stand and pick up BFT. I would only recommend using the first build (without LS) if you're running premium damage control and premium smoke, as if you do lose your engines, you're going to need to either fix them quick or hide quick. I may come back and edit this; I'm going to test the high-risk build for another ten-twenty matches in Leningrad and see how badly my survivability is hampered by skipping Last Stand. I will edit this if I change my mind about the viability of the high-risk build. but so far it's working for me. Edit: The DD Penetrates You build is EXTREMELY high-risk and I have bumped it to an alternate build. When it works, it works beautifully, but even with the 40-second cooldown with premium DC, it really hurts survivability for aggressive gunboating (and Leningrad begs for aggressive gunboating.) Khabarovsk Primary (I will probably use this one for randoms) - Stronk and Versatile Build: Priority Target, Last Stand, Demolition Expert, Advanced Firing Training, Concealment Expert, Survivability Expert, Adrenaline Rush Alternate (my probable setup if/when there are t10 clan battles) - Speed-Tanking Sniper Build: PT, LS, DE, AFT, Inertia Fuse/High Explosive, SE, AR Alternate - Smoke+Shoot Flamethrower Build: PT, LS, DE, AFT, BFT, SE, Superintendent. Discussion: Ah, Khabarovsk. In a perfect world, I'd say screw CE. I didn't use CE on Khab before 0.6.0 as I couldn't run AFT+DE otherwise. But the recent range nerf to Khab, and CE becoming a 4-point skill as opposed to 5 points, makes CE a more intriguing pick for Khab. On the one hand, Khab's biggest potential contribution is as a pure DPM dealer, speeding along at 40+ knots spraying fire merrily at all comers, using its speed and maneuverability to dodge fire and laugh at everything shooting at her (except for Zao and Moskva, because their railguns can actually hit Khab from long range.) On the other hand, the t10 meta means that sometimes other DDs don't do their job, and I find myself trying to cap in my Khab even though she's way too visible to do it well. And with the range nerf a few months ago, I do take a lot more hits than I used to and I do sometimes need to stop firing and get concealment back so I can pop up elsewhere and start spreading HE love again. I think the second or third build is stronger for division play or clan battles as it allows Khab to be used to its greatest strengths. The second build gives Khab IF/HE, which allows her to pen t8 and t9 cruisers, plus Des Moines and Minotaur, anywhere but the armor belt and penetrate Moskva, Zao, and Hindenberg through their bow and stern plating. The third build forgoes IF/HE, which of course increases fire chance, and uses those points for BFT (higher ROF) and Superintendent (extra smoke and extra speed boost). The first listed build is interesting for the current super-campy, people-afraid-to-push t10 meta as it sacrifices IF/HE for CE. While Khab has terrible concealment even with CE, this gives the Khab a bit more ability to push up without getting spotted and focused, and at least a limited ability to cap, especially mid or late game. I hate to waste 4 points on CE when ideally Khab would always be focused on maximizing DPM and speed-tanking, but given that sometimes one has to use Khab in suboptimal ways to compensate for other DDs that won't play to win, this helps make her a bit more versatile.
  15. whats a good stealth dd (if there is any)?
  16. The title says it all, the stuff is on the WG Asia facebook. What do you guys think they'll do to differentiate the copy cat ships from their respective nations? For example the Tx from the Gearing, TIX from Fletcher, and TVIII from Benson.
  17. ÁRBOL PAN-ASIÁTICO DESTRUCTORES Buenas gente, como andan? WG ha anunciado el futuro árbol panasiatico que sera uno de los próximos lanzamientos (seguramente después de los BBs ingleses). Para la empresa el mercado asiático es muy importante y esta es una forma de seducir a sus clientes. Sin embargo históricamente las marinas asiaticas (con la desmesurada excepción de Japon) no tuvieron mucho desarrollo. En este barco va a haber barcos de China, Taiwan (también llamada China oficialmente), Indonesia y Korea. Zuizas se sume alguno de Tailandia en el futuro. Los barcos que vieron servicio en estos paìses fueron todos de origen foraneo. Algunos comprados durante la guerra, otros cedidos como reparación después y mucho comprados durante la guerra fria de sobrantes de USA o Rusia. Este post va a decirles que barco eran antes de ser "orientalisados" e introducirlos a sus características. TIER 1: Cheng An Clase MIKURA (Japón). Un Destructor de escolta armado con 3 cañones de 120mm. Parecido al Hashidate, apenas 17 nudos Fue entregado a China como compensación de Japón por invadirlos. Cuando Taiwan quedo separado se llevo este y otros barcos. TIER 2: LONG JIANG Diseño no construido. Fue encargado a Alemania en 1913 pero nunca construido. Los alemanes tomaron el diseño y fue la base de sus V-25 Tier 3: PHRA RUANG Clase "R" de Thronicrof. Origen Inglaterra. Muy buenos destructores de fines de la primera guerra mundial. Es bastante "livianito". Cañones: 3 de 120mm torpedos: 2 x 2 Velocidad: 36 nudos TIER 4: SHEN YANG Clase: MINEKAZE (Japòn) Este fue el Namikaze un destructor de la clase minekaze que fue modificado para llevar torpedos Kaiten. Dejandole un solo cañòn. sin embargo en el juego retiene màs cañones asi que realmente como van a presentar a este barco. TIER 5: JIAN WEI Diseño no construido: Proyecto T.306 (Inglaterra) Uno de los pocos barcos originales. Este un diseño de Inglaterra para China que al final no construyeron. Cañones: 5 Torpedos: 2 x 3 Tier 6: FU SHUN Clase: GNEVNY (Unión Sovietica) Bueno de esta clase tenemos Gnevny, Gremmysky, Anshan....y ahora Fu shun. Desconozco que le pondrán para que sea especial. Tier 7: GADJAH MADAH Clase: "N" (Inglaterra) La clase N britanica fue para ROYAL NAVY un retorno a los Destructores mas torpederos que cañoneros tras los enormes "Tribal". Este en particular es el "Nonpareil" que fue cedido a Holanda en 1942 y que esta cedió a Indonesia en 1950. Cañones: 3 x 2 de 120mm Torpedos: 2 x 4 Velocidad: 36 nudos Tier 8: HSIEN YANG Clase: GLEAVES (USA) Este fue el Maconmb, de la clase Gleaves, que es una variación del Benson. Tras la guerra fue desactivado, pero luego transferido a Japón cuando estos crearon su nueva Marina. Japón se lo vendió a Taiwan posteriormente. Los Gleaves de la ultima camada tenían menos armamento pero mas AA. Cañones : 4 de 127mm Torpedos: 1 x 5 Velocidad: 35 nudos Tiene bastante AA pero no se si es suficiente para tier 8. Veremos como lo pone WG en el juego. TIER 9: CHUNG MU Clase: FLETCHER (Usa) Un fletcher. No hay ningún misterio acá. Vendido por USa a Korea del Sur Tier 10: HSIAN YANG Clase: ALLEN SUMMER (USA) La clase Allen Summer esta entre el Fletcher y el Gearing. Siendo mas que nada un Gearing màs chico. Este fue vendido por USA a Taiwan Cañones: 6 de 120mm Torpedos: 2 x 5 Velocidad: 34 nudos Bueno estos son los barcos que vienen del Sudeste asiático. Van a ser variados y seguramente WG le pondrá algo para que se diferencien màs de su contrapartes occidentales (torpedos profundos!) pero al ver la clase a la que pertenecen ya se dan una idea de como van a ser. Otra cosa mas, la mayor parte de la información viene de La parte técnica viene de Navypedia.
  18. Those of us who play lots of DDs knew that the removal of OWSF was gonna completely screw up DD balance. Wanting to have some data, I took some screenshots of the Solo 2-week stats for all ships in the game the day before 6.3 dropped. Having this thing called "A job" and "other stuff I would rather do than compare statistics" I never got around to making a detailed comparison. AraAragami asked me if I still had the screenshots. (Of course I do, I still have MP3s I downloaded in 1999 at school and transported home on floppy disk.) I figure just post them here and let people make their own comparisons. So here is the screenshot with every ship as sorted by Tier.
  19. Was there a sale at the DD store that I missed? If so, we BB drivers didn't get the memo.
  20. Was going to post this in the smoke changes post, but it has kind of become derailed and too long at this point. Warning this might be long by the time I am done writing it. I posted this in that thread. Going to chime in here on this topic. For one I am not a fan of this change to smoke. I consider myself to be an average player, but am noting a trend here with this game, and balancing. It is ever so slowly heading towards the shape WoT is in. Changes that should be happening are taking too long like CVs, as well silly blanket changes like this possibly in the works rather then applying them on ship by ship bases. What needs to happen is new content needs to be put on hold for a few patches, and work on some kind of global re balance of what is in the game right now. I see WG as good game developer, but very poor at balancing their games. I came to WoWs due to WoT seemly going the wrong direction, this game has warning signs it might go that way as well. To me the weird attempts at times to balance WoT, WoWs, is due to feeling like they are trying to satisfy the poorer players (no offense), and the top community members (no offense) too much, rather then trying to find a middle ground that works for everyone. Thanks for reading. Continuing my train of thought on global re balance idea. CV Balance I personally see CVs as the main issue in this game, I don't want them gone just to be clear but fixed. As fixing them allows for many other things to be fixed/balanced. Right CVs have/cause four main issues. 1. Balance between the USN/IJN CVs. 2. Lack of them being play is unbalancing everything. 3. WG balancing and changing things without fixing this class first. 4. Overpopulation of BBs. The CV Fix(How I would do it) First I think the ships are fine the way they are. Next get rid of AS setup, and stock flight decks for all CVs. Give nice balanced flight decks to both sides. Heres where it gets crazy, remove all fighters from game, and replace them with flights of scout planes. These Scout planes can not engage each other or strafe, but as bonus have high HP thus are harder to shoot down. Also DF to carriers sooner Carrier sniping is lame. This allows DBs(USN), TBs(IJN) to become the national flavors. NOTE: I also think that overall alpha strikes should be reduced due to manual drop remaining. Over all the idea here is for the CVs to become team players rather then having to worry about the other CV as much. This would make them more enjoyable to the overall population, as well as simpler to play. With the end goal of CVs of applying DoT, and vision control to their team. AA balance This also a trouble spot. But I think this the easier fix. First I think regardless of nation BB AA needs to be reduced across the board. Crusier AA needs to go up on Non USN ships. I see these ships as what should have the best in AA. Reduce Air spotting distance for DD. Makes it harder for CV to find you due to Radar already being enough to deal with. Heres the big one to help CVs a little have a delay on AA firing at planes (2 seconds for BB, 1.5 for everything else) so planes don't get melted for wandering into edge of AA range. Counter this by clicking Manualy for them to fire at edge of AA circle. Makes it fair for everyone. On DDs Balance Make it so CVs DB, and TB CAN NOT spot torps anymore, allow spotting planes etc. to spot them still. I wont go on any longer, as this is already a lot. I know there are other issues as well (radar, smoke, flooding). Those I believe can be looked after other items are fixed. I think just by sorting out CVs and AA will go a long ways to fixing the game. Thanks for reading this as well, sorry it was so long. Wanted to write this for a while.
  21. Well, lads, we've finally done it! Destroyer is now dead last in BOTH High and Low tiers in XP earnings (among other things)! It's taken a lot of nerfing, complaints, and fighting to get to this point but we are finally there... DEAD LAST WOOOOOOO! High risk with the least reward. That sounds like a recipe for a great time. Just add in lowest: -Battles (for surface combat ships without a hard cap) -Ship Kills -Planes Killed -Survival -Damage Caused - K/D Ratio -Win Rate % *** *The DD WR% is 3rd of 4 in High Tiers, and 4th of 4 in Low Tiers. What I don't get is why people aren't running out and playing the class in droves, when it's clearly so advantageous to play. It's just so not like human kind to take the path of most resistance. At what point do we think that maybe it's time to take a look at overall balance, reward structure, and combat efficiency. Just looking at fairly generic stats indicates there is an issue. Page the data is gleaned from:
  22. Lots of heat flying around the forums at the moment seemingly some discord between various 'mains'. So kind of interested to see how divided the community is, what the uptake of various classes is. It's pretty easy to see for yourself on sites such as Personally I play cruisers the most at 38%, followed by 33% destroyers and 30% battleships. I could be considered a cruiser main though I don't think so. There is a difference at high tier for me where I have 2x T10 Cruisers, 2x T10 Destroyers but only T9 Battleships. So, are you a main? Are there actually clusters of die-hard battleship or destroyer aficionados out there? N.b. I don't consider 'maining' a class to be a bad or good thing.
  23. No, I didn't like this ship before the IJN DD overhaul and liked it less afterward. However, they start showing up around Rank 8-7. Why? Concealment 5.8km. 300m less than everything else & 800m less than Farragut. Torps 10km. Same torps as Fubuki, only 2 sets though instead of 3. Potential damage 16,267. That's big. AA please don't laugh. I was the only DD in 2 battles this afternoon with CVs. B-Hull Farragut AA rating 26 vs. Hatsuhara 37. Both with AA in 2nd slot & flags. First battle my CV was so bad that I shot down 8 planes with Hatsu. My CV shot down zero (0). So I pulled my RPF-equipped 19-point captain from another ship and put the Hatsu to work. The guns are awful - don't use them unless you have no other choice. Try to get closer for torps so you can make 2 spreads count. And use that concealment to flush out red DDs and win battles!