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Well the forums are really fired up over the new CV game play, I am a CV player but have yet to play the new mode, however i played 4 games last night 3 in AA Battleships and 1 in a Cruiser and they were not fun. I know there are a lot of teething problems but unless WG fix this and fast I foresee serious drops in player numbers. I would like to share my thoughts on the new mode and the ships I played with in those 4 games. Game 1 The Prinz Eitel Friedrich : Game mode Standard I was in this ship on Strait ( possible the worst map in game ) with a Texas 1 CV, 1 Cruiser and 1 Destroyer facing the enemy flag. We chose to stay on this side as opposed to moving to defend our flag which is the often case on this map, big mistake this time. Defending our flag were 2 CV's 2 BB's a CA and a DD Now The PEF was designed BY WG as a AA Battleship and I believe they boasted this in there promotion of this ship and maybe 72 hours ago i my have been able to destroy any air attacks that fell against me however not in this battle I did not shoot 1 plane down despite constant strikes against me. Through gunfire and systematic air strikes the enemy destroyed the entire force well you might say that's what suppose to happen and that is true however our ships defending our cap abandoned our flag with 2 CV's defending it because of the constant CV sniping, this is beyond belief. We lost in a landslide, The PEF is suppose to be a 1941 upgrade of a 1914 designed ship boasting modern AA, with this new mode this ship is now incapable of defending itself against constant air attack, for a 1941 refit ship its now sadly lacking it is no longer viable as a AA battleship the only thing it had going for it. WG needs to ad DFAA and or Fighters or give it a torpedo suite. Game 2 The kII: game mode domination Ironic just went to front page of website to a ad for The KII on sale with the quote in the description " This ship is equipped with an impressive AA armament to counter aircraft carriers by effectively fending off their air strikes. " Well game 2 didn't start well constant air strikes against me and other ships which my AA and indeed my Fighters failed to blunt resulting in a steady damage climb to my ship, once again KII is touted as a AA BB, by games end i managed to shoot down 1 plane total, meanwhile the enemy capped 3 caps while our fleet chose to try to just survive, at one stage i asked why our lite forces we not trying to cap someone replied that the idea now was to sink the enemy CV's nothing else matters. I watched ship after ship try to fight there way to the other side only to be sunk, i also witnessed a DD sail by 2 enemy controlled caps and ignore them in a attempt to attack ships then when he did finally cap he got sunk. Hydro is now redundant as DD's cannot hide in smoke or even get close to enemy ships as they are hunted down and destroyed by constant CV attacks, teams are unwilling to push for fear of repeated CV attacks when CV's are not sniping each other to death. Caps and flags no longer matter sinking CV's and your own ships survival are all the counts now, KII's AA suite is also now redundant as are its fighters that cannot inflict enough damage to destroy enemy planes. Game 3 The Texas game mode : domination As most people here know The Texas is not " THE HAND OF GOD ' unless a friendly was scratching your paintwork or you were leading the charge and some inexperienced CV player attacked you head on then your fleet was safe. Texas AA suite was designed for personal protection and its here where she was formidable. Game 3 Starts with 70% of our fleet heading to C cap while myself and 1 DD and a PEF go to challenge A cap and couple of ships go to B, the B ships are challenge so they run to C our CV's at C try to snipe there CV's, meanwhile our DD at a bugs out because its to hot and gets sunk at B trying to run to C leaving me and PEF isolated because no one at C wants to move ( passive play at its finest ). Our once powerful AA is now irrelevant as myself and the PEF are systematically attacked by wave after wave of aircraft , 3 days ago my Texas would have shredded both CV's entire air groups alone, not in this game. I shot down 1 plane for entire match fortunately while the enemy was destroying us our CV's kept up the sniping game and we one but it was still close because our BB's at C were reluctant move. Redundant AA suites, passive game play, caps that now irrelevant and CV sniping. Game 4 Admiral Graf Spee game mode : domination This was the best game for shooting down planes though my ship had hydro on and not a DFAA module combined with my fighters I destroyed 8 planes 8 and yet my 3 AA battleships combined could only kill 2 this is not good. We lost this game though it was close however there was some interesting things i would like to point out from this game. once again our team was reluctant to cap for the most part when we tried we were focused by enemy CV's, passive game play by both sides while the CV's sniped, DD's again were hunted down by CV's all but the best DD players will suffer this fate. The few brave ships that tried anything were once again focused because of passive play on the part of others. By almost games end the enemy had 3 CV's left to our 2 CV's and a Nurnberg, incredible our cruiser got to gun range of 2 of there CV's but didn't last long but 1 thing struck me as i watched his ship getting bombed to oblivion was the fact that there were fighters escorting him with his ships name on them, they failed to be of much assistance. I thought it strange at first until i checked the ships hulls this player out of desperation had swapped out his C hull for the B hull and lose a full 14 points of AA protection for fighters which failed to help in the end. Hydro is now a waste as its not needed on ships to track DD's as they can not survive the new CV game play anymore . I'm a CV fan and this is but a few ships I have played so far including 3 AA Battleships which now seem to be redundant, I am certain there are and will be many horror tales by other players to come. I don't want CV's to go so WG must fix this fast the ANTI CV group are baying for blood and this new game play and its faults will give them the ammunition they need. 2 years ago people complained about CV sniping so to fix it WG put in DFAA modules on CV's to deter it then they removed manual drop and strafing from low tier CV's now with this new game play we are right back where we started CV sniping again.
CSSBT posted a topic in General Game DiscussionHello everyone, recently I produced a YouTube video featuring replays of the USS Montana at tier 10. If you are bored and can use a distraction today, feel free to check it out. But rather than a typical ship review video, I've kind of noticed that the footage in the video showcases various issues and things that can be improved with game play at tier 10. Among the things I noticed (and suggestions for improvement): #1 Most maps features a Littoral environment with close by shorelines, islands, shallow water, and straits. I think although ships did fight in environments that fall into this category in history, it did not happen nearly as frequently as it has in game. Arguably it's probably not a good idea to sail capital ships in such confined waters in real life due to various asymmetrical threats that they cannot sufficiently defend against. Mines, attacks from much smaller units like torpedo boats that thrive in the environment, shore batteries, air attacks, arguably even sabotage largely renders heavy ships vulnerable in a littoral environment. For example, in the Battle of Surigao strait, the IJN Fuso and Yamashiro fought a futile suicidal action in such confined and unsuitable environment. Meanwhile, the attack on Pearl Harbor, the British raid on Taranto, and the Italian raid of Alexandria were extreme examples of what happened to capital ships when they can't maneuver while attacked. Obviously the game cannot be completely realistic or faithful to history, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to look into this and come up with maps that features different types of environment. #2 The roles caps play in game aren't always good nor are they always conducive of good game play action. I think winning a fight in terms of damages, kills, and spots while losing because the enemy has more points is not an ideal situation. When there are more than two caps (i.e. WOT style set up) in game, the presence of the caps alone often promotes passive game play. It takes away the focus of the fight from engaging and annihilating the enemy. Rather camo, capping, spotting, and area denial become important. I think it is rare to have a situation in the history of modern naval warfare where it was key to control or contain a small patch of the ocean like a cap on WOWS. Sure if there's an amphibious or combined arms operation at play, it could happen. But then that's not a factor in WOWS. When a team's stealthier ships are not up to par or incidentally get taken out early, the team will watch victory slipping away due to having a major disadvantage to contest the caps. At this point, the team with the points lead often farm damage and/or hide and milk the caps, while the losing team becomes either passive or reckless: either way it often ends badly. What if we try to set up games that has no caps at all? Not even 2? This will bring the focus of the fight back onto engaging the enemy. The points count could be determined by the number and types of surviving ships, like the way historians look at the tonnage sunk and human casualty after the Battle of Jutland? What if as an alternative to having caps, the game offer an option for damaged ships to withdraw by offering them a chance to limp away to a designated part of the map's edge? I think this is also a game play mechanic faithful to history as the withdrawing of damaged ships often have strategic implications. For example, the USS Enterprise was seriously damaged in the Pacific multiple times but its survival proven crucial. Meanwhile the survival and withdraw of the German High Sea's fleet's capital ships after the Battle of Jutland was key to the strategic situation then. I think it would be good to make people fight eagerly and then withdraw. It's a better situation than the passiveness or recklessness found in game now. #3 Some maps by design forces a team to split up into multiple sub fleets to contest different areas of the map. This seems like a forced gamble, and it often was in history. Sometimes a smaller or weaker subfleet's demise in the hands of a stronger opponent often snowballs quickly and makes the team's success elsewhere irrelevant. Some maps also kind of isolate the subfleets by the design of their geography so that once the team has been split, it's hard to once again combined forces for cooperative play: distance is too far for effective engagement or timely relocation and line of sight is blocked... This often means doing your part isn't enough for a win just cause the team kind of went the wrong way or ran into the wrong enemies. #4 Ships, battleships in particular tend to not move much but rather try to function as bow tanking artillery barges. I would say that usually the Yamatos are probably the worse offenders of this. In a sense I don't blame them cause they have the guns that can go through bow plating, their citadels are exposed on the side, they aren't particularly fast, nor do their turrets turn quickly enough for shooting while turning. But ultimately this situation is kind of odd and not fun. It penalizes ships that don't have most of its firepower concentrated in the front and devolves games into a strange naval version of trench warfare where ships try to hide while bow on behind islands and mountains and take pot shots at each other like soldiers in neighboring trenches tossing grenades over the top. Although nobody likes to eat citadels, I still think this situation is not good for the game. #5 Destroyers' playerbase seems to have the highest skill floor and ceiling in game at tier 10. As a BB player, it seems that sometimes the cap situation is already a done deal due to the DDs even before I get to engage anyone. A good DD player can take out a not so good DD player extremely quickly. How good your DD is often puts a hard limit on how the rest of your team will fare. If the friendly DDs die early or are less skilled, the BBs often suffer tremendously due to not being able to anticipate enemy intention or have sufficient situational awareness. #6 I in particular dislike having torpedo boat style Japanese DDs (Shimakaze line) on either teams. As enemies they often come in divisions and can torp spam and/or snipe in ways that's almost impossible to counter in a BB. Ever been targeted by 45 torps at once? I have. It was not pretty. As allies, the Japanese DDs often do not counter enemy DDs. They might spot and cap. But when they run into the enemy DDs they will often run away while dumping their torps which aren't always good for attacking DDs. I've noticed that many of them almost never fire their guns. An enemy's on 500hp at 6km? They fire torps but their guns stay silent. They are also often so obsessed and tunnel-visioned that they will try to saturate an area where friendly BBs are engaged in a brawl with the enemy with torps. I've lost count how many times I've been torpedoed by friendly DDs while brawling. (my video shows this happening 3 times...) #7 Ironically, at tier 10 cruisers seem to play very differently versus at mid tiers, especially from a BB player's perspective. Maybe due to their vulnerabilities to big guns, they'll often play 2nd line at most. This often means they aren't close enough to the action to counter DDs or close enough to the BBs to provide AA. So much so that DDs and BBs often fight their own fight without help. The cruiser at tier 10 seem to focus on farming damage and opportunistic moves, on a good day they usually chime in and engage enemies that are already being engaged, distracted, or has overextended. But them as a defensive screen and support against enemies BBs can't see or maneuver against, often don't exist... Just some of my observations thus far. I'm obviously a fan of the game and I want it to improve and fulfill its potential. Feel free to discuss share your thoughts on the points I brought up and how things could be improved.
Well, after hearing @Lert and others talk about the Bogatyr, I went back and bought her tonight...I think I free XPed her the first time...dumb rookie move. Anyway, the first game in her was very strange...look at the map: Yep, no caps...I tried, told the team what I was doing and got over run. Both teams NEVER caped. Not a one. I don't think I've ever seen that.. at least at the lower tiers. P.S. Bogie is a monster...
As much as destroyers are vital to capping and the overall success of a team, after a string of matches today in which a series of early-game destroyer deaths led to defeat despite the team very nearly managing to pull a turnaround (and indeed might very well have succeeded were it not for the early destroyer deaths), I feel compelled to say the following: A cap is rarely worth dying for. An early cap is NEVER worth dying for. The power of destroyers increases as the game goes on: the number of radar ships decreases the teams become more and more spread out, thus making it more difficult for support ships to screen for torpedoes or enemy destroyers most likely, some of the enemy destroyers will have died as well, making it even more difficult for the enemy to detect you carriers may run low on planes or be busy with other tasks (and thus forget to spot and/or attack you) Either way, it's much better to stay alive and grab the caps later in the match than to grab one early, die, and then have said cap be taken right back by the enemy. Example 1: playing Essex on Land of Fire. Our Benson and Gearing smoke up and cluster up in a handful (perhaps even just a single) puff of smoke in one cap while our Yugumo charged into another cap despite my having spotted (using my fighters) a Des Moines heading for the very same cap earlier. The end result was that between the enemy Taiho's attacks on the clustered destroyers (which still managed to land 2 torpedoes on the Gearing despite the interference of my fighters and a friendly Cleveland) and the enemy radar cruisers who—to their credit, played very well—charged into the caps, all three of the aforementioned destroyers were dead by the 5 minute mark, 2 of them with less than 300 base xp. The only destroyer we had left at this point was a Khabarovsk, hardly a capping destroyer. What made this case particularly bad was that, at around the midpoint of the match, the enemy team, having broken through one of the flanks, started getting careless and overextended badly (quite a few of them ended up chasing me), allowing our team to sink all but three of them. Alas, despite our team's efforts (special mention goes to the Khabarovsk and a Cleveland who saved me when I was being pursed by all four enemy destroyers), the early deaths of the three destroyers was too much. The final result had the enemy team winning on points, with only me left alive on my team (with <100 hp) and a Shimakaze, Musashi, and the enemy Taiho alive on the enemy team (who had basically lost air superiority to me). If even one of the three destroyers that had died early in the game had survived to the mid-game, I'm willing to bet that we could have carried the match, as I still had plenty of planes left to kill the enemy Taiho and Musashi and any one of the three destroyers would have outgunned the Shimakaze. As it stood, the aforementioned Khabarovsk, Cleveland (both of which died, I'm sad to say), and I lost the match having each earned enough base xp to have placed below only the enemy Shimakaze (who was 19 short of 2k base xp) had we won. It's a pity that the team's efforts were wasted by the senseless early deaths of the three destroyers. Example 2: playing Minsk on Haven. As I had the worst concealment of all the enemy destroyers on the map (and, as a Russian destroyer, suck at cap-fights), the team decides that I will act as a spotter and a gunboat in the east while the other three destroyers split up and go cap. While the game starts off fairly poorly with two of our ships—a New Orleans and a Bretagne—dying with less than 400 base xp and a Konig being afk (and would remain so for the entirety of the match, being the second-to-last player to die, after me and before our Warspite), our team does manage to steadily push back one of the enemy flanks while holding firm in the other, as well as killing two enemy ships. The three destroyers also manage to drive out a couple of the enemy destroyers and get a cap by the 4 minute mark. Then, disaster struck. At around the 6 minute mark, despite having seen two cruisers heading towards another cap, the three destroyers move towards that very same cap together, probably hoping to kill the lone Gaede that was guarding it (and also probably thinking they didn't need any support, which I honestly can understand: smoke and torp the cruisers, gun down the Gaede). When the cruisers turn to engage our destroyers and dodge the torpedo salvoes, one of the destroyers attempts to flee and get summarily taken out while the other two panic-smoke together. They do sink the Gaede, but the Gaede retaliates for 2 flesh wounds, 2 devastating strikes, and and a double strike. Suddenly the game turns from a 9v10 to a 7v9, with myself being the only destroyer left alive, and our team rapidly falls apart from that point onwards. The holding effort on one side now disintegrates due to the disappearance of the torpedo threat—allowing the previously hesitant enemy battleships to quickly push forward and crush the holding force—while our team's advance on the other flank dissolves as the enemy's 3 remaining enemy destroyers, with the support of their re-inspired battleships, cut our team's battleships and cruisers to shreds. I do my best to stem the tide, killing the enemy Warspite, New York (these two from full health to zero with torpedoes), and Akatsuki (who gave a hard fight thanks to my turret's slow rotation speed), capping, and even taking citadel shots at inattentive enemy cruisers, but it was ultimately only a matter of time until our team was wiped out. The game ends having lasted a grand total of 11 minutes. The final score has our team being fairly neck-in-neck with most of the enemy team base xp-wise, accounting for the victory bonus (except for the afk Konig and the two ships that died early), with me (first place on my team) having done 107k damage (86k with torpedoes) and about 1.2k base xp on a loss (the top enemy player, the Warspite that I nuked and the one that killed me, got about 1.4 base xp). The enemy Gaede, while having IMO been the one that turned the fight around for his team, only gained 1k base xp for 5th place on his team (too bad blocking enemy caps doesn't give any xp, because otherwise he'd probably be on top). Indeed, had those three destroyers not made the mistake of rushing in too early and without support (they had actually been playing fairly well up to that point), it is quite likely, IMO, that our team might have been able to overcome the initial setbacks and push on to victory. The enemy team certainly did well rallying and ultimately beating us (especially the Gaede), but it definitely would've been a much harder fight for them had the three destroyers not attempted to rush the Gaede when he had cruiser support. TL; DR: