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Found 42 results

  1. when are they releasing the german battleships an are they going to most likely use
  2. skull_122_steel

    Roma Question

    So with the tease of the Italian Cruisers and the new SAP shell type, Can we please replace the HE shells on the Roma with SAP so you don't over-pen when you hit a cruiser with 2 of your 9 shells. On another note what do you guys think of the SAP shells and Fuel Smoke
  3. admiralsexybeast

    Any New T10 BBs On The Horizon?

    Anybody who plays with me in game knows that I am without question, a BB main. I do play DDs, and CAs too, but I never get anywhere near as much consistent fun and enjoyment out of either of those ship types as I do my BBs. That being said, I currently have every t10 tech tree BB in game. Montana is my favorite and Kremlin isn't too far behind. However, I'm starting to get rather bored with the BBs that I have and I'm starting to get desperate for something new. I'm not really open to spending steel on the Bourgogne, as to me she's just an Alsace at tier 10 with a reload boost and from what I've seen, she has to make use of HE to get damage a lot more often than I really like from a BB," I'm a strong believer that BBs are meant to be shooting AP 99% of the time." The only other tier 10s I've heard of that are somewhere in the works would be the Ohio, Thunderer, and Slava. I think the Ohio is going to be an NTC reward, but unless I'll just be able to use my free xp to research the required amount of tech trees right away and be able to get the ship immediately, I don't consider that "on the horizon" so to speak. Not really sure what the acquisition method will be for the Thunderer? If she is going to be a 457mm conqueror that has good AP, that's something I can get behind. However, I've really not heard anything about her recently. Lastly, the Slava, which was out of these 3, the one I was looking forward to the most, was supposed to be an alternate to the Kremlin. However, she has been in the testing phase a lot longer than average, "at least seemingly." I'm starting to wonder if WG maybe scrapped her all together? Maybe too many sub 50%ers were whining and crying about her having accurate guns," you know, those guys that go full broadside in front of a BB in a CA, get dev struck, and then go on a tirade in chat about how the BB needs its accuracy nerfed." God forbid we get a new BB that hits thing at range, you know that thing battleships were designed to do? Anyway, I'm just wondering if any of those will be coming around soon, or if there is something in the works I've missed? Maybe since I shouldn't be spending every game getting chased around the map by rocket planes anymore, maybe I could start playing my DDs more again. Honestly though I'm just dying for a new BB right now!
  4. Yamato (Japan) Pros 18.1 inch main caliber guns that can overmatch up to 32mm bows (Republique, etc) Quite sturdy when bow on Great torpedo protection Cons Cheeky citadel (lewd) Very very sluggish, ship itself and turret traverse Not the top AA Montana (USA) Pros Very accurate guns Heavy hitting 'murica freedom SHS shells : great for citadeling and hitting deck armors for bow on targets. Great AA Good maneuverability Waterline citadel makes it trolly to hit. Can opt to slot secondaries or AA without forsaking accuracy. Cons Very slow shells, bad for sniping Vulnerable to IFHE spam Grosser Kurfurst (German) Pros Very tanky, great health pool Good secondaries that pen 31(128mm), 34(150mm), with IFHE all can pen 32mm (most bows of battleships) German hydro 6k Turtleback armor scheme, making it hard to citadel at close distances Fast turret traverse Cons Gets a lot of pens everywhere Very big and sluggish, easy to hit German gun dispersion BAD BAD concealment Republique (French) Pros Very accurate guns, good pen even at distances Great HE rivaling Conq fire chance Engine boost for flanking and kiting Good maneuverability High fire chance secondaries with long-range French turtleback, not as sturdy, but still usable Cons 32mm everywhere (vulnerable to IFHE spam and nose cits) Guns in A-X position + 8 guns (need to show a lot of broadside for a full salvo) Secondaries are made of glass Conquerer (British) Kremlin (Russian) Well, that was my impression of the 5 ships of the tech tree as an average player. I haven't got the Conq or Kremlin yet, so not much to put on here :)
  5. Capt_Ahab1776

    New York or Texas

    Hello I have a question regarding the T5 USN New York and premium T5 USN Texas. I recently won the Texas with the contest in game. I know from sailing CV's the Texas used to be a AA monster in pre 8.0 CV rework days. Is it still a AA monster? Are the ships close enough in comparison that they are basically redundancy? If so I may sell my New York and free up a port space. Thanks in advance!
  6. Was just in a game with a DD player that decided they wanted to spot two enemy DDs at the very start of the battle. Our team only had 3 BBs for support in the area. Naturally, with no support, our DD got destroyed really quickly and then turned to the chat to rant about how bad we were. As a BB main, I see this a lot. Eager DDs charge in, trusting that the friendly BBs can help take out the enemies. Meanwhile, the BBs are 10-15km away from the targets they are supposed to be shooting at. Why do DD players think that BBs are the "destroy everything" ships? They aren't designed for taking on DDs. Hitting a DD at range with a BB is too hard because they can dodge quite easily and the reload speed means you can't lob enough shells at them. Getting into a range where you would actually be likely to hit a DD is too risky because the poor maneuvering of a BB makes it difficult to dodge the inevitable torpedoes. I cannot understand by DD players don't understand this. If you want to kill a DD, you need cruiser support.
  7. As a BB main, I was pretty happy to see a new line of BBs in the game. However, I've been grinding away (I'm only at T5 at the moment) and I'm thoroughly disappointed. The armor is bad. The handling is bad. The gun accuracy is bad. It's all bad. I can't tell if it's a bad line or if it's just because it's a low tier, so I'm debating whether or not I want to waste anymore time grinding the Russian line since I'm already working on the British and Japanese lines. Do the Russian BBs actually start to play good at the higher tiers?
  8. With the release of OHIO (Montana with 4x2 457mm guns, faster repair, and Massachusetts (Mass) secondaries in the works, I would like to propose an alternate Tech Tree Branch for USN Battleships. Branching from New Mexico, you choose between Colorado or: T7: Nevada; with 10 15in guns and and secondaries like Mass except the base range is at least 6km. I don't think it will be WV44 since WG already promised her months ago, and no other USN BB in game has 15in rifles. Plus it's Nevada, the same BB that when used as a target took constant punishment from several ships for almost 3 days, without a DMC party or fighting back! T8: Washington; Main Battery should be at least 1.8 and at most 1.9 to put her accuracy in the middle of Mass and NC as well as and at least 20km range, Mass Repair Party and DMC cooldown, & secondaries identical to Mass except 5 sec reload instead of 4. This will give Washington the Profile of a BB with emphasis on her secondaries, but won't fully outclass NC or Mass with the former's higher sigma and range and the later's faster firing secondaries. T9: New Jersey or Wisconsin; Identical to current premium Georgia except with 3x3 406mm guns at 1.8 sigma (to not outclass Iowa and MO as ships that fire accurately at range), no EB, and some extra armor protection (Georgia is a bit frail for a BB). This way, NJ/WI will be the slower but tougher ship, while Georgia is the faster and more nimble of the two thanks to her EB, as well as her unique main battery. T10; OHIO!!!!!!! Please WG, make this happen. You did this for USN cruisers, Russian and Japanese DD's, and those changes worked fine. It's time for a new alternate branch!!! *EDIT* - Nevada never had 15in gun, only the 10 14in guns. Maybe branch off from New York and instead we have Nevada at T6 w/1944 config with the 8 dual 127mm, and then T7 Maryland or California.
  9. Server Battles WinRate Average Kills Average Damage Average Experience Average Plane Destruction K/D EU 101,498 54.01% 1.09 100,062 2002 7.00 2.05 NA 53,532 54.35% 1.13 100,736 1986 6.78 2.61 RU 39,662 56.41% 1.25 110,473 2043 7.99 2.41 ASIA 52,247 55.02% 1.02 97,841 1995 8.25 2.6 Here are server stats as of this now. In my opinion, her guns are too accurate and her armour(citadel included) being impervious to all (non-super/battle/premium) cruiser AP and (Unless you take IFHE Hipper/Roon/Hinden) HE is a incredibly broken. I think I should at least be able to damage kremlin consistently with heavy cruiser AP on a flat broadside. And what is that AA? Why does this ship, supposed to be vulnerable to DoTs, have an AA system that eclipses the USN? But I do not have Kremlin. So what is your opinion on this mega BB? Am I wrong?
  10. Hello everyone I m an active player and I currently own most of the high tier battleships and cruisers in the game and I m a big fan of secondary armament. However, as everyone knows already, the secondaries are terribly underpowered, even if you invest a huge amount of resources, time and experiences ( module, flag, and 14-18points captain ), they still feel underwhelming to use. Personally, I would like to see a global, across the board secondary buff to all ships in the game, such as giving the effect of secondary mod 1 to all ship, and a change to the dispersion formula for secondary armaments. Of course, we need the buff their range. These are just my personal opinions and I would like to know what you guys all think of the current state of secondaries in World of Warships. . Edit: I think that there is one easy way to improve secondaries and make them feel a lot better to use: Simple make the secondaries shoot other targets when using Manual secondary, but the target not selected manual won't have the accuracy buff from the captain skill.
  11. DakotaViking

    What I saw Last summer in Texas

    Pictures from the USS Texas
  12. Tirpitz or the Atlanta for credit farmer/captain building. I'm looking for a really good boat that can make some decent credits but also build up some captains in the process. My play style is mainly playing with destroyers and Battleships. I recently got the Massachusetts and love it's secondary but I'm also looking for another great credit farmer and captain builder. So i can swap by and forth between the two. Would like to spend 60$ or below on a new ship. Any opinions?
  13. Fellow battleship players: Recently I installed Matchmaking Monitor and starting shadowing the strongest (highest xp/match or pr/match) (non-CV) player in my team. It surprised me how much better rated I've become according to WoWS Numbers. I also divisioned up with a good friend for an evening, who is arguably weaker in some areas. I shadowed/followed him in those matches, and my stats dropped in those games and converged to his. A few fundamentals could potentially explain a player's excessive individual performance (over the ship's average). Besides positioning of the ship (location, angle, and speed), aiming, configuration (captain skills, modules, etc), tactical choice (choices of target, AP vs HE, etc), and even quick commands you spam out in the channel are among those. However, I believe positioning of the ship to be of overwhelming significance, and everything else explains no more than 10% of the performance. Therefore, you could try to improve your game by shadowing the strongest player in your team and learn from their positioning of the ship. There will of course be differing opinions on this matter and I respect that.
  14. Just got the amagi and I am wondering what would be the best build and best upgrades to choose for this ship.also wondering how good the ships AA is (can never trust the stat screen sometimes). I am asking here because idk if other older setups are still good to use
  15. Tier III – Knyaz Suvorov Named after Prince/Count Generalissimo Alexander Suvorov, the most renowned Russian prominent military leader throughout the Russian military history. As the last generalissimo of the Imperial Russian military, he was the man who have achieved numerous victories in over 60 battles & many of Soviet & Russian military doctrines were shaped by his legacy combat & logistics doctrines & even the importance of military personnel's morale. Possibly a fitting given namesake for captains & admirals to start getting familiar with Russian/Soviet BBs, honing combat skills as well as tactics & strategies management, and most of all, mustering the leadership to lead the division & fleet to be their examples to follow, not just by force alone.  Tier IV – Gangut Named after Battle of Gangut, which was representing the first important & decisive naval victory in the Russian Navy history. It was them against the Swedish Navy at the Hanko Peninsula of the Southern Finland. It was celebrated by the Imperial Russian Navy since then & tend to have a tradition to named at least one capital ship after that particular naval battle. Tier V – Pyotr Veliky Named after Peter The Great. The once successful Tsar who then became the founder of the Russian Empire, effectively crowned the first Emperor/Imperator of the newly-founded Russian Empire & the head ruler of House Romanov that has long reigned the empire until 1917. He was famous for Westernized most of the Russian cultures, traditions & government institutions reform, as well as laid a framework to modernized & shaped the Russian Navy as one of the most formidable European naval powers to be reckoned with. He has been quite well-known in the Russian VMF as well as at St. Petersburg for being one of Russia's iconic naval cities, Russia cultural center & the former capital city of Russia.  Tier VI – Izmail Named after Siege of Izmail. It was a military campaign led by none other than Generalissimo Prince Alexander Suvorov to besieged Izmail during the Russo-Turkish War 1787 - 1792 & dealt a killing blow to the Ottoman Empire at Kinburn, Ochakov & Foscani with the Black Sea fleet led by a certain Spanish admiral - Jose de Ribas. In that war, came with the slogan "Grom pobedy, razdavaysya!" (Let the thunder bring the sound of victory) to be commemorated as a Day of Military Honor. Tier VII – Sinop Named after the Battle of Sinop, of which was Russia's most earthshaking naval campaign against the Turkish forces of the Ottoman Empire at Sinope during the Crimean War, where the Imperial Russian Navy utilized high-explosive shells of Piaxhans guns for the first time in history, effectively evolved the naval warfare doctrines since then. Prior to Sinop the standard naval armament were smoothbores that fired cannonballs, shot, shrapnel or other projectiles. Piaxhans guns were slowly being integrated into navies but only the French, Russian and American navies had made a comprehensive effort. These batteries represented a clear evolution in naval technology that broke through the final ceiling of the Age of Sails. Tier VIII – Vladivostok Named after one of the Russian VMF's historic & strategically-important port cities - Vladivostok. Its naval fortress complex has hardly been attacked & remained unscathed throughout from WWI to WWII & beyond despite being heavily fortified & was already prepared to fend off a large wave of invading naval forces, particularly against the Imperial Japanese Navy. Tier IX – Sovetsky Soyuz Literally the Soviet Union itself. The lead ship was named as such & the rest of the ambitious number of 15 ships were all to be laid down to be named after all fifteen Soviet republics, with each ship representing a Soviet republic of the USSR - Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Turkmenistan & Tajikistan. Those were all once under the Russian Empire - except Finland, which broke away & declared independence from the Russian Empire since 1917 when the Bolshevik Revolution broke out. Tier X – Kreml Whilst the namesake given, Kreml, tends to associate with the Moscow Kremlin - the central administrative government complex of the USSR & modern Russia by many. If anyone understand Russian language, Kreml is, in fact, a fortress complex. Unironically, this Soviet Leviathan represents as a cruising/floating fortress with not only being the tankiest, most resilient BB of all with the highest HP, armor & torpedo protection parameter to tank torps better than anyone; but also stands out for having the most powerful naval armaments comparable to Yamato & has 2nd most powerful AA capability comparable to Montana. 
  16. petertalon52

    New German battleship

    I'm looking at all of the new ships coming out focused on all the navies but the German Navy. Today I saw a new Iowa ship with 457mm guns, how about a German battleship with 457mm guns using the Grober Kurfurst as a template. Also just to see where this goes, how about the A-150 class of battleship aka"Super Yamato."
  17. Fair warning/Disclaimer: This post is rather long, but it is so for a reason. This is a very important topic and nothing about the discussion about the problems around the proposed changes can be left out without properly portraying every failure and flaw in its current situation Although Giulio Cesare was arguably too strong at tier V, (Okt Rev, Texas, and the ARP Kongo clones were about the same level as her performance wise let's be honest, especially the ARP Clones since if we're to judge things based on other ships stats of the same tier the ARP ships global average stats are practically the same.) but that isn't exactly the fault of the GC directly, think about it: what's the main thing that makes the GC tend to perform better than her contemporaries? Her accuracy. GC by far has the best accuracy of all the other battleships at her tier, and for most of the tech tree BB's at her tier their accuracy is downright atrociously bad (looking at you Texas/New York, König, and Bretange). So of course If you're more likely to actually land more shells on target, even though they're smaller, you're going to be doing more damage as a result. Again this isn't at fault of the GC for most of the other TV BB's just being mediocre at best, if anything they should be getting some tweaks to bring them more in line with the rest. But that's just a fraction of what's wrong at Tier B currently, which I'm planning to make a post on later today covering that in-depth, this is on the TVI problems so I'll get back to that. There are currently a lucritave amount of issues with her being at tier VI. So let's start off with a simple one: None of her stats have been buffed, aside from a pointless armor buff (since every cruiser and destroyer you're going to be facing can pen your bow with IFHE anyway it doesn't matter. Plus the fact that even some of your new Tier VI counterparts like the Warspite, QE, and Bayern can just lol-pen your bow anyway it again means your armor doesn't matter, which is beyond infuriating for a ship that is supposed to rely on its armor.), and a slight HP increase nothing has been done to make her even be able to be mediocre at her tier at best. Tier VIII and VI carriers will be able to strike you with impunity, Notser has even shown off how over the course of being constantly hounded by a carrier he never shot own a single attack aircraft. That's a pretty damn big problem. Then there's the fact that although her armor's been "improved" it hasn't actually made it better, let alone be enough to withstand shots at tier VI like she used to at Tier V, since this is a whole new ballpark of ships to face. Since beforehand when you fought Tier VII BB's you actually had a chance of fighting back with your armor and guns if you played your cards right. But when facing Tier VIII BB's you have zero chance of even having so little as a hope of being capable of fighting back, since your gun caliber is so low for its tier (beating out the previous Champ Dunkerque with its 330mm guns with GC's 320mm guns), imcombination of its short range for its tier now (that even most cruisers at tier VI can outrage her now, let alone higher tier ones,) with the addition of the fact that your armor doesn't stand up like it used to against your highest tier possible opponents, as literally every single tier VIII BB will be able to just rip you apart no matter how you angle, as they all overmatch your bow, allowing them to do massive damage to you while you won't be able to do even moderate damage in return unless they're presenting practically a perfect broadside. Which isn't something that can be corrected to no longer make it the case without completely overhauling every other Tier VI BB, and at that point it'd make more sense to just leave her at tier V. Then there's the issue that the reload is now appalling given its new tier placement, given how ships like Dunkerque with its 2x4 330mm guns has a full 4 second faster reload, that's with 4 guns packed into two turrets and being 10mm larger yet still reloading faster than the GC. Then there's the Fuso: she has 6x2 356mm guns that reload in 28 seconds, while the GC has two less guns, again of a lower caliber, that still bafflingly manage to reload a full 2 seconds slower. Then there's the problem of her now having Tier VI MM, which not only is a far more aggressive MM tier than Tier V as you're far more likely to be bottom tier at tier VI than Tier V. Then there's the issue with that MM not being what those who bought the Giulio Cesare bought into: they bought a Tier V battleship because they wanted to play a battleship at tier V with that specific MM, if they wanted to play a BB at tier VI with tier VI MM they would have bought something else like the Warspite or Dunkerque. Which that same new MM placement also completely ruins the enjoyability of the ship due to you now running into so many tier VIII ships that are entirely designed around killing BB's: the Asashio (which I detest that monstrosity), the Akizuiki/HSF harakazae (with the Akizuiki gun turret hull) due to their ludicrous fire rates and being able to IFHE the entirety of the GC at tier VI, every single tier VI and VIII carrier (they can maul you but good luck shooting down a single plane), and again every Tier VIII BB can just lol-pen your bow and Godspeed trying to do anything to them in return unless they're broadside and even then you'll barely do any substantial damage to them. So unless you can make it not face Tier VIII's it will never be a comfortable fit at that tier like it was at Tier VI. Since it can't stand a chance of holding its ground like it could bottom tier at tier V like it would have to now at tier VI. Not to mention there's no role or job the Cesare can currently fill that another battleship doesn't do it massively better than the GC, which leads to there being no point to ever own or play her, as there's just a better ship for every role that does that job but better than the GC in its current state. Warspite does the accuracy and devastating salvo job better thanks to its 2.1 Sigma and 15" guns, that hit more often and hit harder Arizona also fills that same Accurate BB sniper role better as it is Dunkerque fills the same fast flanker role, but with a much faster reload, it is actually faster, and has all its guns in the front P E F already claims the Secondary/Brawler spot  The West V 1941 has better damage potential by far with the same reload speed.  There's just nothing it can do that any other Tier VI already does but better And this is without bringing up the issues of invalidating prior business agreements by changing a product in this manner after it was sold under the assertion that it would never be changed, nerfed, or made worse farther down the line. (Which wouldn't that technically be an invalidation of their previous EULA/TOS promises during the time it was being sold? As wasn't it advertised that it would never be tampered with later down the line?). That's not even mentioning the legal repercussions an action like this could entail, and am legitimately and rather unfortunately finding myself considering if they don't handle this properly. And finally to the argument of "Premium ships ahould be able to have their stats nerfed or made worse after their sold" I have this to say: alright, I'll take that moving forward from here on out only, but you still can't change those that have been already sold, as they were sold with the promise and contract that they wouldn't be changed or modified later down the line. As that's where I draw the line. Which is another reason every fiber of my being is against this change. In conclusion: what exactly am I wanting to happen? WG to cancel the move to teir VI and instead roll-back the buffs given to the GC over the period of time that she's been on sale, that way she's able to be toned down a notch, without it no longer being what people purchased to begin with. The buffs to her were unnecessary and were done after she was for sale, and would be enough of a change to make her no longer OP to the degree she's at; making the ones for the change happy as she's no longer as strong, and those that own her happy as they keep her at tier V, and not have her trashed by having to fight as a tier VI.
  18. Warships; Steel, Paper, or Fiction? Greetings, Earthlings Fellow Forumers! So, as some of you may have noticed, I've started, and completed as far as I could, a little series known as "Steel, Paper, or Fiction?" The purpose of these threads, and the charts that accompany them, is to keep an easily accessible record of all the tech tree ships in World of Warships, and just how 'real' they are. As you're all aware, people tend to throw around the slur (or at least treat it as such) 'paper ships,' usually accompanied by the statement we only want real ships, or something like that. Heck, I'm guilty of it. Well, some ships we have are 'paper' ships, but certainly not fake. We do a few actually fake ships. The vast majority of ships in the game, thankfully, are real, were commissioned, and saw service. That will probably always be the case, looking at what's available. These threads already exist, each in the relevant subforum in "Discussions about Warships," but that'd kind of out of the way, so I decided to make this one as a compilation, where all 4 charts could be seen, and the other 4 threads easily found. So, in these threads, I've catalogued all 4 types of ship, first cruisers, then battleships, next destroyers, and finally carriers, into these four categories: Green = Ships that were built and saw service Violet = Ships that were partially constructed, but were destroyed/scrapped before completion Blue = Paper ships in the purest sense, existing only as blueprints, but never constructed. Orange = I dunno. No, really, i don't know. These are the ships I can find nothing on, and as far as I know are pure fiction constructed by WG to fill tree gaps, which, I guess, if it's necessary, it's necessary. I'm not going to blame them for it if they couldn't find anything, so long as the fictional ship doesn't take the place of a real one. Also, any nation with a red box for their name box means the tree, and the placements within it, for that ships type, are purely speculation as to the ship placements. As soon as WG releases the details for what ships are when in those lines, they'll be corrected where needed, of course. As this is the case, if the name box above is in red, take the placements with a grain of salt, and add pepper for flavor. Particularly on the carriers, since that's by far the most paper-intensive of all ship types. Important: This chart is open to edits! If you guys have anything to add or to fix, then do comment, and I'll edit it! For example, I think I've seen someone mention the Orlan as actually being a design, but I can't find anything on it so for now I've put it as fiction, not a blueprint. Additionally, I know there were loads of Soviet ships that got laid down, but were never completed, so if that's any of the classes I have listed as purely blueprints, fire away! Also Important: IF you want to comment on ships placement for the speculative threads, please take a look at the thread for that ship's type, which I will link, as they contained more detailed descriptions of the the thread usually. They will also contain the edit logs. You can mention any edits that need to be made in this thread, but I would appreciate it if you would also suggest it in the relevant thread to that ship type, as that makes it much easier to keep track of and organize. Even if you're from another server, don't be afraid to shoot a message, I've already had one from the EU server, for example. So, without further a-due, and me running my mouth(fingers?) more, here they are; Aircraft Carriers: Thread here NOTE - Pending CV Rework for Further Updates Battleships: Thread here Cruisers: Thread here Destroyers: Thread here Edit log: All Edits will be kept track of in the Edit log for the appropriate thread. This thread is merely a compilation of sorts, where it's easier to find. Exception 21-1-2018: All threads repaired from photobucket shenanigans. Also, for those unfamiliar with the names of various navies; United States Navy = United States Navy (pretty self explanatory) Royal Navy = British Royal Navy Dai-Nippon Teikoku Kaigun = Imperial Japanese Navy Regia Marina = Italian Royal Navy (literally, 'Royal Navy') Marine Nationale = French Navy (literally, 'National Navy') Voyenno-morskoy Flot = Soviet Navy (Literally, Military Maritime Fleet) Kriegsmarine = German Navy (Literally, War Navy?) Keep in mind, some of the countries had multiple iterations of their navies' names across the timeframe of the game. The Russian Navy starts out as the Imperial Russian Navy, and later becomes the VMF after the Soviet Union is formed (tier 4 to 5 is the transition). The German navy was originally the Kaiserliche Marine, or the Imperial Germany Navy up to the end of WWI. Inter-war it was known as the Reichsmarine, aka Navy of the Realm, until 1935 where it became the Kriegsmarine. In game this depends on the line you go down. For German battleships, you go from the IGN to KM at the tier 6 to 7 transition, while for cruisers it's tier 4 to 5. My other "Steel, Paper, or Fiction?" Threads: Aircraft Carriers Battleships Cruisers Destroyers
  19. Phoenix_jz’s Italian Battleship Tech Tree Hello all, I’m back at it again with tech trees, and this time I’m throwing out an idea for the Regia Marina, and its options for a battleship line. Now, as of we’ve got two Italian battleships in the game – the tier V rebuilt Cavour-class battleship Giulio Cesare, and the tier VIII Littorio-class battleship Roma. Italian battleships are fairly well represented by these two. Italian battleships fall short on AA, and their citadels tend to be somewhat tall (No magic boilers like in the Royal Navy, I guess) – but they’re usually fairly well protected. They’re quite mobile and tend to handle well for their size, and carry powerful, high-velocity guns with questionable accuracy. They tend to be quite stealthy for battleships, but at the cost of range. While I did initially draft out two lines, for this post I decided to only post the ‘main’ line, while I will perhaps make a post on the second at a later date (Spoiler – It’s lots of Ferrati designs - #outquadthefrogs). This main line is essentially the majority of what historical Italian battleships were. Like many Italian designs, speed tended to triumph over armor in order to sustain firepower – in order to defend Italy’s long coastlines from attack, Italian ships had to be able to rapidly deploy against enemy ships, dashing up or down the coast. Likewise, they also stressed artillery performance at range, thus the use of heavier than average shells at infamously high velocities. As a note, I’m not going to try and guess AA suites for B-hulls, but hitpoints would be for a B-hull. Major Line Features: You get: High Speed/Mobility – Generally speaking, these ships will be faster and have better handling than most other battleships Generally good levels of stealth, better than other battleships at the same tier Powerful guns with very high velocities, leading to high penetration, and good gun handling with their fast turret traverse times Unique SAP/AP flavor - Explained below Armor profile starts out as sub-par to mediocre, but becomes very powerful in higher tiers La bella figura– these ships look good. At the cost of; Generally sub-par AA for their tier The main battery range tends to be average to poor The guns share the poor dispersion of German and French battleships, offsetting their ease-of-aim. The main battery lacks HE The health pool of these ships is generally average, but at higher tiers falls behind the competition to a serious degree. They also have relatively high citadels compared to other lines with lower citadels (or physics-bending like the British) The SAP/AP Flavor, and Lack of HE There is only one part of the Italian battleship line’s flavor that can be defined as gimmicky, in the same way the French battleship’s speed boost, the German super-hydro, or British… everything? I’m not even sure where to start with them. This gimmick is that Italian battleships are unable to fire High-Explosive shells from their main battery. Why? Because that’s what the Italians did historically. Unlike their cruisers and destroyers, Italian battleships did not carry HE shells (In Italian; Granata Dirompente – I may refer to this round as ‘GD’ later in this write-up. These shells had an instant fuse and a bursting charge of 5-7% the mass of the shell). Rather, Italian battleship fired two types of Armor-Piercing shells; Palla (or sometimes Proiettile Perforante - PP) – These rounds were the pure Armor-Piercing rounds used by the Italian navy, designed to punch through as much armor as possible, and had small bursting charges of between 1-2% of the shell’s mass. Palla translates to literally ‘ball’, although it can also be used to describe a bullet. Proiettile Perforante would be in a literal sense Piercing Projectile, but the term is analogous to an Armor-Piercing shell in English. These terms describe the same kind of round regardless. This was the primary round to be used against the heavy armor on enemy battleships, and that was essentially their only purpose – the only exception is a curious note from a September 1942 document that advises the use of 320mm Palla against the American Baltimore-class heavy cruisers. This round was used outside of battleships only as the armor-piercing rounds of the 152mm guns used aboard Italian light cruisers. Granata Perforante (GP) – This type of round, with a name that blended that of the two other types of round, is often erroneously dubbed a High-Explosive by English sources (such as navweaps.com, and English translations of Italian books). Their name translating directly as Piercing Shell, these shells were essentially a Semi Armor-Piercing shell, with more explosive power than the pure AP rounds but less penetration, and like the AP used a delay fuse. These shells tended to be about 90% of the mass of Palla, and had on average only about 55-60% of the penetrative potential at most given ranges, but their bursting charges tended to be 2-5% the mass of the shells. This was the general-use round on Italian battleships, and was meant for use against carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and even the lighter armor of some battleships. These rounds also performed as the primary Armor-Piercing ammunition for the 203mm guns of Italian heavy cruisers as well as Italian 120 to 135mm destroyer guns – however performance did vary. As Italian heavy cruisers were still meant to duel and defeat enemy cruisers their shells tended to favor ‘palla’-style performance and had a smaller than average bursting charge, while the destroyers had higher values approaching those of GD rounds, as they were meant for use against very light armor only. An example of the qualitative differences of the two Italian AP types from official documents Essentially, what this boils down to is that Palla is the ‘Anti-Battleship’ round, while Granata Perforante is the ‘whatever else’ shell for Italian battleships, and that’s the flavor that will be reflected in the line. The performance of the round types thus will be as such: Palla (AP)– The same AP shells you’ve always known, these shells have the normal fuse time, and have high penetration. They’re great against battleships, being very punishing even against heavy belts because of their high penetration – however against cruisers, due to that penetration and their velocity retention, this will lead to over-penetrations in many cases. Weaker AP like that found on the 320mm and 305mm Italian guns will still be appropriate for use on cruisers, especially those with heavier armor, as their lower overall penetration and also higher tendency to lose speed (the WWI-era 305mm shells having poor drag performance typical of the era, while the 320mm shells of these guns when re-bored was still rather poor at about 4crh). Granata Perforante (SAP)–These shells will perform differently than regular AP. With higher velocity usually, these lighter shells might feel easier to aim, but they have fundamental differences. They deal less damage than the pure AP, and have much less penetration – they’re not going to do well against the main armor belts of enemy dreadnoughts. They also have short fuses similar to British battleship AP, meaning they’ll have a harder time reaching battleship citadels. However, the combination of less penetration and a shorter fuse time means they’ll tend to over-penetrate cruisers less in the way that Roma’s 381mm Palla does chronically in-game. They’ll also be better for hitting destroyers then regular AP, as well getting regular penetration against the softer areas of battleships that are too angled to penetrate – this will mean excellent damage farming off of German battleships, who’s incremental armor schemes guarantee regular 33% penetrations with ammunition of this type. To compensate for the lack of 'auto damage' that HE gives from raw penetration and fires, these shells have auto-ricochet angles identical to those of Hood's AP - 60° and 67.5°, rather than the normal 45° and 60°> The Tree: Quick Breakdown: III: Cuniberti 17t – Designer Vittorio Cuniberti’s 17000t dreadnought design – the real first dreadnought. IV: Dante Alighieri – Italy’s first dreadnought, Nikolai Iis a Russian version of her. V: Conte di Cavour – The original version of what Cesare’s sister once was, a heavy broadside defines this WWI battleship, with thirteen guns. VI: Caio Duilio – The successor class to the Cavour as rebuilt, this is essentially a better Giulio Cesare. VII: BB1935 – A design that existed beforeLittorio, it uses the 320mm guns in a modern layout with high speed and balanced armor VIII: Littorio – Roma’s sister, she’s similar to Romabut a more comfortable ship with more reliable performance IX: Impero – The third Littorio, this is Littorio as intended, essentially the tier VIII turned up to 10, if the Littorio’s performance was tuned down to 8 (which it kind of is) X: BB1936 – The 406mm design that existed next to Littorio, it was the ultimate expression of Italian battleship design – she’s dwarfed by the tier X BBs of other nations, but is faster, well protected, and has a very strong armament. Tier III – (Cuniberti 17000t) Napoli The design that started it all. The Italian Naval Engineer Vittorio Cuniberti first put his name on the map when he designed the 1901 Regina Elena-class battleships. Pre-dreadnoughts, they had followed the high speed stereotype Italian ships had already gathered for themselves in the latter half of the 1800s, despite the country being so young. At 22 knots, they were the fastest battleships in the world, even after the first dreadnoughts were completed. This, of course, came at the cost of armor (their belt was 250mm, which actually was fairly average for the era). These pre-dreadnoughts were unusual as although their medium battery of guns was exceptionally heavy (6x2 203mm guns, six to a broadside), their heavy battery was very light – only two 305mm/40’s in single turrets, one fore, one aft. The reason for this was more important than one might think, at first glance. The Regina Elena-class in fact had its origins in Cuniberti’s own work, on a 1899 design for a powerful 8000 ton armored cruiser featuring a uniform main battery of twelve 203mm guns, a top speed of 22 knots, and a 150mm belt. It was to be the ultimate Armored Cruiser, faster and better armed than any other. Such a design would ultimately be realized eight years later by the German Kaiserliche Marine in the Armored Cruiser Blücher of 1907 (6x2 210mm, 25 knots, 180mm belt), but not so for the Regia Marina. The design was rejected, and Cuniberti turned it into the 13000 ton ‘battlecruiser’-style Regina Elena-class, whose design philosophy was to be faster than any enemy battleship, and far outgun any enemy cruiser – which it accomplished for its era. Two were built, the Regina Elena and Vittorio Emmanuelle, both laid down in 1901. However, the Italian navy wanted two more battleships, and this time Cuniberti decided to revisit his old concept, and put it on a battleship as he had originally envisioned it – the ‘all-big-gun’ battleship. Thus he took the Regina Elena design to the same place he had taken his armored cruiser design – the ship grew to a displacement of 17000 tons, and featured the single most powerful armament ever put to sea – twelve 305mm guns in four twin and four single turrets. It is important to understand the context in which this came about. Fire Control Systems had come far from their origins, but were still extremely primitive in this era. The range to which they were effective was out to a few thousand yards – massively superior to where they had been only a few decades prior, where a few hundred yards was the extreme limit of naval gunnery. For this reason, the big guns of a battleship were of less use. At the ranges they fought, their main guns had more than enough penetration, and fired slowly. Smaller-caliber weapons still had enough penetration, but could fire faster, and more could be mounted for much less weight. Thus, they were much more effective at closer ranges. However, Cuniberti envisioned that as fire control became better, battles would increasingly be dominated by longer-ranged gunnery from the heavy guns. His ‘all-big-gun’ battleship would simply be able to overwhelm the enemy with large-caliber fire, smashing them under a deluge of heavy shells, and moving on to the next in line. The ships’ own armor would be strong enough to resist enemy fire in return. One of these ships would be worth many of the enemy’s battleships, and six of these would be a force powerful enough to deter any fleet in the world from challenging them. This behemoth was meant to go 24 knots as well, thus being able to run down any major warship in the world – but this is unlikely on a 17000 ton hull, 21 knots being a more realistic speed given the size of machinery of the era. 24 knots would have required a much greater displacement of about 21000 tons. Ultimately the Italian navy rejected the design due to its prohibited cost, but allowed Cuniberti to publish his idea in Jane’s All the World’s Fighting Ships 1903, where he recommended the design be pursued by the British Royal Navy. Meanwhile, the Italian navy built two further Regina Elena’s, laid down in 1903 as Roma and Napoli (hence why I’ve adopted the name Napoli for ours in-game). In May 1905, Cuniberti’s ideas were vindicated. The Russo-Japanese War saw the Battle of Tsushima fought, which was decided primarily by long-range gunnery, at staggering ranges exceeding 5 km reaching all the way to 7 km. The evidence was enough for Britain’s First Sea Lord Admiral Sir John Fisher, who had been exploring the idea of these big-gun ships already. That October, Britain laid down their first all-big gun battleship as the HMS Dreadnought, obsoleting every battleship afloat overnight. Roma, the sister to the Napoli that was ultimately built. Napoli was Italy's last pre-dreadnought battleship. Survivability: 21800 tons – 36600 HP Belt: 305mm belt, 305mm turrets and barbettes Main Armament: 4x2, 4x1 305mm/40 RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 1.8 Traverse: ?º/sec AP: MV: 780mps Mass/Dmg: 417 kg (MaxDmg: 8100) SAP: MV: 780mps Mass/Dmg: 386 kg (MaxDmg: 7800) Secondary Battery: 12x1 76mm/40 Ansaldo 1916 RoF: 15 rpm (4 sec) HE: MV: 680mps Mass/Dmg: 6.5 kg (MaxDmg: 1100, 4% FC) Maneuverability: Engine Power: 50606 shp Top Speed: 24 knots All in all she’s your pretty standard tier III – probably faster than most, but still only having an eight-gun broadside. You’ll be out of it in a second, so I don’t think I need to elaborate on her. Sail around derping eight-gun broadsides into enemy ships, and profit, like any other battleship at this tier. Tier IV – Dante Alighieri … con l’animo che vince ogni battaglia The first Italian dreadnought, the Alighieri was unusual and ambitious. Her design was meant to maximize Cuniberti’s vision, by allowing all of the ship’s main guns to fire to her broadside. She was light for her size, but had a heavy broadside of twelve 305mm guns, with a sub-par 254mm belt and a top speed of 22 knots. She carries the distinction of being the only battleship to ever be named after a Poet, but make no mistake – Dante Alighieri is no mere poet, at least not in Italy. While to most he is the famed author of la Divina Commedia, in Italy he is something more, considered the father of the modern Italian language. La Commedia was one of the first European works written outside of Latin, and Alighieri chose to write it in a Tuscan dialect he referred to as ‘Italian’ – marking one of the first ‘modern’ appearances of the concept as Italy as a nation and an identify. This was grasped onto by the Risorgimento movement, and formed an important pillar of the Italian identity used to unify the peninsula. Laid down on the 9th of June 1909, she was the first battleship to be laid down with its armament mounted in triple turrets, and was completed in 1913. Her career remained uneventful, and despite taking part in the First World War and several Adriatic operations, due to the nature of Adriatic Theater in WWI she never saw action against Austrian dreadnoughts. She served as a testing platform for important gunnery and fire control technologies, and was scrapped in 1928. Her motto, “… con l’animo che vince ogni battaglia” comes from Canto 24 of L’Inferno, words Virgil speaks to Alighieri to boost his moral – the line is usually translated in (modern) English as “...with the spirit that overcomes every battle”. Survivability: 21800 tons – 36600 HP Belt: 254mm between end barbettes, 100mm to bow. Main deck is 50mm with 50mm turtleback slopes, upper deck is 30 or 38mm. 254mm turret faces. Main Armament: 4x3 305mm/46 Modello 1909 (Broadside: 12 guns) RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 1.8 Traverse: ?º/sec AP: MV: 840mps Mass/Dmg: 452 kg (MaxDmg: 8700) SAP: MV: 840mps Mass/Dmg: 401.2 kg (MaxDmg: 8200) Secondary Battery: 4x2, 12x1 120mm/50 Modello 1909 (Broadside: 10) RoF: 6 rpm (10 sec) HE: MV: 850mps Mass/Dmg: 22.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1700, 6% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 4x1 76mm/50 Modello 1909 - 16.8 dps @ 3.00 km 2x1 40mm/39 Vickers 1917 - 11.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 32190 shp Top Speed: 22.8 knots Dante Alighieri is going to look somewhat similar to some people, because of Russia’s own version – the Imperator Nikolai I. While it is true that Italian design did have influence on Russian dreadnought design of the period, it has not actually been indicated by any surviving documents that the Russian 4x3 designs, very similar to the Alighieri, were actually inspired by it, and so such Russian battleship design appears to be an independent development. So, what you should expect from Dante is something of a Nikolai-lite. While less armored, she has similarly powerful guns – a lighter shell (452 kg vs 470.9 kg), but fired at a much higher velocity (840 mps vs 762 mps). She’s got a 1.8 knot speed edge over the Russian dreadnought, but overall weaker armor (270mm belt on Nikolai) and their secondary battery being about equal – both having a 10-gun broadside, the Russian battleship bringing larger 130mm guns while the Italian 120mm guns fire faster. AA armament of both is rather minimal. However, the playstyle will be similar. Despite her thinner armor, Dante is well suited to bow-on tactics, and with three of her four turrets facing forwards, is well suited to swapping fire from port to starboard rapidly, regardless of what her turret traverse may be. Tier V – Conte di Cavour A nessuno secondo The follow-on class to Italy’s first dreadnought, the Cavour-class battleship was meant to be a response to French building, but as Italy lacked a 13.5” (343mm) gun to upgrade to for their battleships, they sought to use an even heavier armament of 12” guns – this time mounting thirteen 305mm rifles. The same as those used on Dante, these had a superior layout, a triple turret with a twin turret super-firing over it both fore and aft, while a single triple turret found a home amidships. Less ambitious in speed, it saw an engine power increase to compensate the increased displacement, and typical of Italian design, to achieve a speed advantage of 1-2 knots over the 20-21 knot dreadnoughts of foreign navies. Armor was slightly improved over the Alighieri, but speed saw a decrease - despite the target speed of 22.5 knots, the top speed was only 22 knots. Cavour was named for the Count of Cavour, Camilo Benso. Prime Minister of Sardinia-Pedimonte, he was instrumental in the formation of Italy as a nation, essentially Italy’s counterpart to Otto von Bismarck. He became the country’s first Prime Minister. Her motto was ‘Second to none’, written by the famous writer, war hero, and eventual proto-fascist Gabriele D’Annunzio. Survivability: 24250 tons – 39500 HP Belt: 250mm between end barbettes, 80mm to bow. Main deck is 50mm with 50mm turtleback slopes, upper deck is 30 or 38mm. 280mm turret faces. Main Armament: 2x2, 3x3 305mm/46 Modello 1909 (Broadside: 13 guns) RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 1.8 Traverse: Dunno lol AP: MV: 840mps Mass/Dmg: 452 kg (MaxDmg: 8700) SAP: MV: 840mps Mass/Dmg: 401.2 kg (MaxDmg: 8200) Secondary Battery: 18x1 120mm/45 Modello 1909 (Broadside: 9) RoF: 6 rpm (10 sec) HE: MV: 850mps Mass/Dmg: 22.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1700, 6% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 6x1 76mm/50 Modello 1909 - 25.2 dps @ 3.00 km 2x1 40mm/39 Vickers 1917 - 11.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 31278 shp Top Speed: 22.3 knots Conte di Cavour is an interesting ship, especially considering that her sister, Giulio Cesare, is Italy’s tier V premium battleship. Well, here’s the thing to keep in mind. Cesare is utterly OP at tier V. It’s outright comedic how well she does, and legend has it that in a lost Canto, Dante places her in the forgotten tenth circle of hell where not even the Devil himself was made to suffer. So we’re not comparing these sisters. No, rather, we’re comparing Cavour to other WWI dreadnoughts like Bretagne, Iron Duke, and König. With an identical turret layout to these ships, they’re pretty easy to compare. König, with her thick belt and turtleback, is by far the most durable, Iron Duke not far behind her, with Cavour trailing and Bretagne in last. Pretty much the same order follows for speed, at 24, 22.5, 22.0, and 21 knots. Firepower is where they vary. The Entente dreadnoughts bring 10x 340/343mm guns firing 2 rpm, and while König brings 10 guns as well, they’re only 305mm guns… but fire faster, at 2.3 rpm. Cavour only fires at 2 rpm with 305mm guns… but has 13 of them. Her penetration should be the best among 12” guns, and the extra three barrels allows her to easily keep up in shell output. Meanwhile, the extra barrels also let her compete with the damage output of the British and French battleships, which she also has more penetration than. Thus, she has similar flexibility to the other battleships with her speed, and although her armor is hardly stellar, it’s adequate. Her main battery is fearsome, thirteen guns throwing heavy shells at high speeds allowing her to hit hard father away then her caliber would seem to suggest. Like many other Italian battleships, her weakness is her mediocre-at-best AA battery, and relatively low health pool for her tier. Tier VI – Caio Duilio Nomen numen The Caio Duilio-class battleships were a follow-on of the prior Cavour-class, and a response to the French Bretagne-class battleships. Since the Regia Marina was satisfied with the prior class and considered them on-par with the Bretagne-class, the Duilio-class ultimately ended up being largely an improved version of the Cavour-class with a revised secondary battery, superstructure, and the decision to accept a lower speed being the primary differences. Caio Duilio was named for the famous Roman admiral Gaius Duilius, who commanded the republic’s fleet at the Battle of Mylae and won Roma’s astounding first naval victory against Hannibal Gisco’s superior Carthaginian fleet. In the inter-war period, as tensions rapidly shot up in the 1930s the Regia Marina began a major revision to its main battleline, which had changed little since the end of the First World War, save for the losses of Dante Alighieri and Leonardo da Vinci and minor modernizations to the battleships as a whole. In response to the French construction of the Dunkerque, the Italian Navy essentially rebuilt the Cavour-class, leaving barely 40% of the original ships behind. As tensions continued to rise, and it became clear that war with Britain was likely, the Regia Marina sought to bring its battleline up to snuff as rapidly as possible, and thus the decision was made to rebuild the Duilio-class in the same radical manner as the Cavour’s. An improved version of the Cavour project, the rebuilding of Caio Duilio and Andrea Doria saw something similar to the Cavour rebuilds, with several notable differences. Like the Cavour-class, their armor was slightly increased, the hull lengthened, and machinery replaced, making the ships capable of 26 knots (one knot slower than the Cavour rebuilds which could make 27 knots, but both classes were still able to force up to 28 knots). The middle turret was removed, and the other guns were bored out from 305/46’s to 320/44’s, greatly increasing their punching power. The Duilio-class had an extra 3º of elevation compared to the Cavourrebuilds giving them an extra 800m of range, but more importantly had a better Fire Control System, making them more capable of engaging targets at range. Their AA battery was far superior to Cavour’s, mounting a battery of 10x1 of the excellent 90mm/50 AA guns rather than the obsolete 100mm/47’s. It also included more 37mm AA guns. Finally, instead of the 6x2 120mm battery of Cavour, Duilio had a 4x3 battery of 135mm guns. Survivability: 24250 tons – 39500 HP Belt: 250mm between end barbettes, 80mm to bow. Main deck is 100mm over magazines, 80mm over machinery spaces, 30mm outboard. A lower portion of deck armor (vertical armor was 70mm) was 74mm thick 24mm turtleback, upper deck is 44mm. 240mm turret faces. Main Armament: 2x2, 2x3 320mm/44 Ansaldo Modello 1936 (Broadside: 10 guns) RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 1.9 Traverse: 5º/sec (36 sec) AP: MV: 830mps Mass/Dmg: 525 kg (MaxDmg: 9300) SAP: MV: 830mps Mass/Dmg: 475 kg (MaxDmg: 8900) Secondary Battery: 4x3 135mm/50 Modello 1937 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 7 rpm (8.57 sec) HE: MV: 825mps Mass/Dmg: 32.7 kg (MaxDmg: 2000, 7% FC) 10x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 (Broadside: 5) RoF: 15 rpm (4.0 sec) HE: MV: 860mps Mass/Dmg: 10.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1300, 5% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 10x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 - 95.0 dps @ 3.99 km 6x2 37mm/54 Breda 1932 - 69.6 dps @ 3.51 km 3x1 37mm/54 RM 1939 - 26.7 dps @ 3.51 km 8x2 20mm/65 Breda 1935 - 27.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 75000 shp Top Speed: 26.0 knots Special Consumables: Speed Boost - Standard So, what is Caio Duilio at her core? Well, she looks very similar to Cesare on the surface, and… well, simply put, that’s exactly what the case is. The class was originally built very similarly, and the rebuilds followed a similar path. The biggest diversion between the two ships comes in raw speed and secondary/AA firepower. Duilio’s broadside of six 135mm guns hit harder than the six 120mm guns of Cesare… but fires more slowly (7 rpm vs 10 rpm), albeit firing HE rather than AP. The 90mm guns on Doria are more numerous and fire faster, although less damaging (40x 100mm shells per minute versus 75x 90mm shells per minute). Her AA firepower is head and shoulders above that of Cesare, but she’s also one knot slower for her base speed. Given the fact that Cesare is OP as sin at tier V regardless of being uptiered… Caio Duilio makes for a strong contender at tier VI, being fast, stealthy, and still hard-hitting. She’s got the speed and stealth to escape ships that are more powerful than her, and yet she’s fast enough to run down other battleships at similar tiers, as well as chase down cruisers that are doing the wiggles – especially with her speed boost, which allows her to force her engine power in order to reach just over 28 knots (28.08 knots). However, she will struggle more at higher tiers. Being able to meet tier VIII battleships, she will encounter battleships that are faster, better armored, and better armed than her. For this, her great level of stealth inherited from Cesare will need to be exploited. The motto is an ancient Roman phrase that explains itself handily; "The name means power.” Tier VII – (BB1935) Leonardo da Vinci Non si volta chi a stella è fiso ‘BB1935’ finds its origins in one of the 1935 studies for a 26500 ton battleship to counter French construction following their decision to build the Dunkerque. The study called for a 26500 ton battleship armed with main guns of either 305 or 320mm, and a top speed of 30 knots. General Pugliese, who was in charge of the project, went around to over a dozen Admirals in attempt to get a consensus of what was most wanted. Although I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you the obvious, the results were… diverse, to say the least. Layouts varied drastically, using everything from triples to twins to quads. In total some 9 different designs were drawn up, which looked like everything from Nelson to Dunkerqueto reverse King George V... well, you get the idea. Oh, and Admiral de Feo had a design in there too, which is pretty much all you need to know about thatone. The one we’re looking at is one of the larger designs, which managed to grow to 30000 tons. It featured a main battery of 3x3 320mm guns, a top speed of 30 knots, and protection similar to Littorio. The secondary battery included 140mm guns in either triple or quad turrets, but since no 140mm guns existed within the Regia Marina, I’d assume the most likely choice of armament would have been the 135mm/45. The intended TDS system was Pugliese’s own. The name I’m borrowing form the third member of the Conte di Cavour-class battleships, which suffered a magazine detonation in port and was ultimately scrapped after an ambitious yet expensive recovery operation. Unlike some of the other names on this list, I’m sure I don’t need to cover her name, as da Vinci is quite famous and well-known far beyond Italy’s borders. The motto is a quote from the MC himself, which in English usually comes out as “He who is fixed to a star does not change his mind” Survivability: 30000 tons – 46300 HP Belt: 350mm between end barbettes inclined, at 11º, Main deck most likely at least 100mm on 12mm plating with a 36mm on 9mm upper deck. Upper belt perhaps 70mm. Main Armament: 3x3 320mm/44 Ansaldo Modello 1936 (Broadside: 9 guns) RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 2.0 Traverse: 5º/sec (36 sec) AP: MV: 830mps Mass/Dmg: 525 kg (MaxDmg: 9300) SAP: MV: 830mps Mass/Dmg: 475 kg (MaxDmg: 8900) Secondary Battery: 4x3 135mm/45 Modello 1937 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 7 rpm (8.57 sec) HE: MV: 825mps Mass/Dmg: 32.7 kg (MaxDmg: 2000, 7% FC) 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 15 rpm (4.0 sec) HE: MV: 860mps Mass/Dmg: 10.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1300, 5% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 - 114.0 dps @ 4.50 km 6x2 37mm/54 Breda 1932 - 69.6 dps @ 3.51 km 3x1 37mm/54 RM 1939 - 26.7 dps @ 3.51 km 8x2 20mm/65 Breda 1935 - 27.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 100000 shp Top Speed: 30.0 knots Perhaps best described as a link between Caio Duilio and Littorio, the 1935 mini-Littorio design (Littorino?) combined the firepower of the Italian rebuilds with the speed and protection that the Littorio-class was to have. Littorino would find such an ‘in-between’ playstyle in-game, the first truly tanky Italian battleship, with a similar combination of the tankiness and mobility available to Roma, with a similar AA suite. The main battery, three triple 320mm mounts, would start to sag, the guns being excellent at tier V, comfortably adequate at tier VI, but starting to get long in the tooth at tier VII, where tier IX battleships are a potential opponent. However, this weakness in firepower is the price that will have to be paid for having such a capable hull – 30 knots at tier VII with a hull that’s supposed to be as durable as Roma, and similar anti-aircraft firepower. I’ve also decided to extend the range of the 90mm/50 AA guns to 4.5 km, as: A) 4.0 km range on a tier VII+ BB is just stupid (side glance at Roma) B) This shows the greater performance of the 90mm mounts on Littorio versus Caio Duilio– the smaller battleship’s mounts were simply to close to the waterline and invasion of water was impossible to prevent – thus their RPC systems had to be disabled, while Littorio’s RPC systems remained intact for the 90mm AA guns It’s possibly the guns would need a RoF higher than 2 rpm in order to stay competitive, but as of now I’ve kept it there because I desire to avoid dipping into unrealistic reload times, and 2 rpm is the highest I’ve seen for these guns. Tier VIII – Littorio Molte nemici, molto onore The largest and most powerful class of battleships built by the Italian Navy, the ‘35000 ton’ (standard displacement was in excess of 40000 tons in reality) Littorio-class was a response to France building a second Dunkerque-class battleship and the subsequent breakdown in negotiations of battleship construction that had been taking place between the two nations. The design ended up being a bit of a test bed for the Italian Navy, featuring Pugliese’s torpedo defense system in full, and a new system of armor defense revolving around decapping of Armor-Piercing projectiles. The deck armor system had a 36mm upper deck laminated on 9mm plating to decap incoming shells, while the main deck was either 100mm (machinery) or 150mm (magazines) laminated on 12mm plating. The result was somewhat contradictory – her magazines were probably better protected from deck penetration than those of any other battleship save Yamato, but its machinery deck protection rates as one of the worst of the modern fast battleships, closer to ships like Bismarck and North Carolina than South Dakota, Iowa, Yamato, or Richelieu. However the belt was a different matter, a composite structure consisting of a 70mm homogenous armor decapping plate, a 250mm gap filled with cellulite, and a 280mm belt of Terni Cemented FH armor. The result was a belt that was largely immune to penetration from almost any gun ever put to sea – and even if splinters should result, two layers of splinter bulkheads existed within the ship before the splinters could actually hit the citadel bulkhead itself. The Littorio also mounted the most powerful guns ever mounted on an Italian battleship, the 381mm/50 Modello 1934. Firing an 884.8 kg Armor-Piercing shell at 850mps, and an 824.3 kg SAP shell at 880mps, it was the most powerful 15” rifle ever created, with belt penetration surpassing that of the American 16”/50 Mk.7 (WWII shells) or the Japanese 46cm/45 – although its deck penetration was inferior by a wide margin due to the shallow angles of impact. Although the full engine power was 160,000 shp, a lower operating speed of 128,200 shp was generally used during the wartime, on which she could make 30 knots. In-game, she’s largely a variation of Roma. Littorio was named after the Lictor, the one who would carry the fasces in ancient Rome – the fasces being the symbol of fascism. The motto used an oft-used saying of fascism – “Many enemies, much honor”. Littorio was the only ship of her class to use a motto. In what is probably the most famous picture of the class, Littorio and Vittorio Veneto conduct gunnery exercises together Survivability: 45236 tons – 64300 HP Belt: 375mm between end barbettes inclined at 11º with an internal 40mm bulkhead (yes, I'm keeping the nerfed internal armor, for the sake of balance with Roma), Main deck is 162-112mm with a 45mm upper deck. Upper belt is 70mm. Turret Faces are 380mm sloped at 30º Main Armament: 3x3 381mm/50 Ansaldo Modello 1934 (Broadside: 9 guns) RoF: 2 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 1.8 Traverse: 6º/sec (30 sec) AP: MV: 850mps Mass/Dmg: 884.8 kg (MaxDmg: 12000) SAP: MV: 880mps Mass/Dmg: 824.3 kg (MaxDmg: 11800) Secondary Battery: 4x3 152mm/55 OTO Modello 1936 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 5 rpm (12 sec) AP: MV: 910mps Mass/Dmg: 50 kg (MaxDmg: 3100) 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 15 rpm (4.0 sec) HE: MV: 860mps Mass/Dmg: 10.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1300, 5% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 - 114.0 dps @ 4.50 km 8x2 37mm/54 Breda 1932 - 92.8 dps @ 3.51 km 4x1 37mm/54 RM 1939 - 35.6 dps @ 3.51 km 8x2 20mm/65 Breda 1935 - 27.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 128200 shp Top Speed: 30.0 knots So, how does Littorio differ from Roma, our already existing premium? In subtle, but telling ways, as she’s not a straight clone. First and foremost, she loses out on durability, with 1100 less hitpoints and a less effective TDS (-10% - and yes, I know I haven't been listing TDS. This is the only time it really mattered). She also trades away her generally ineffective HE for the trademark Italian SAP rounds. She also isn’t as stealthy, visible from 820m further than Roma (from 14.94 km to 15.76 km, or a drop from the fully built 11.22 km to 11.82 km), but also able to fire farther away, base range increasing from 18.12 km to 18.94 km (21.74 to 22.73 km with a spotter aloft). You also have a considerably more capable mid-range AA suite and an extra 500m range on your long-range AA, making you somewhat more capable of defending yourself. With this changes, Littorio will still play similarly to Roma, but with a greater emphasis on staying a little farther away, as well as being less reliant on someone else’s AA. You’re not as stealthy, and torpedoes will hurt you more, not to mention you’ve got slightly less health overall – but at least you’ve got a little more breathing room when it comes to firing back, and you’ve got SAP shells to use so you don’t overpen cruisers quite as often. Tier IX – Impero Laid down as the third Littorio sister but never completed, Impero was one of the ‘second’ generation Littorio-class battleships along with her sister Roma, making the pair somewhat of a slightly different set of siblings… perhaps a second set of twins, if you consider both pairs to be Irish twins? Originally the successors to the Littorio-class would have been the ‘BB1936’ designs (which was adapted into the Ansaldo’s Project 41, which was then sold to the Soviet Union and played an important role in the design of the Projekt 23 Sovetsky Soyuz-class’s design), essentially much larger, 406mm gun armed Littorio’s, but as raw material came harder to come by in the years running up to WWII (due to Allied sanctions), and the need to finish the projects quickly for a 1943/44 war, a second set of slightly improved Littorio’s was chosen instead – Impero laid down in May of 1938, and Roma four months later. Impero, as I’m choosing to represent her here, is the Littorio-class unleashed. As we know it in-game (Roma), the class underperforms in many aspects, especially protection (many of the interior bulkheads scrapped) and the efficiency of the main belt, 375mm in game… which is a fraction of what it was capable. While technically speaking the MAB’s strength is a blank check (decapping against Face-Hardened is different then against homogenous – essentially if you decap the shell, it’s just going to either fail to penetrate, or just shatter, unless it’s of sufficient caliber. You’d need a 470mm shell to actually guarantee punching through Littorio’s belt), we do have one strength figure – able to resist her own shells at 16 km through tests. In-game, Roma has just over 490mm of penetration at this range. Likewise, the engine only operates at about 80% power in-game, compared to its 160000 shp full output. On top of that output, it was able to boost power by a further 12% in emergency situations – getting you just short of 180000 shp. In terms of their actual ability, Littorio somewhat straddles the line between tier VIII and IX with our in-game system – her biggest drawbacks are the raw dpm cap of only nine 381mm guns at tier IX, the low health, and the weak AA… but her protection, speed, and absurd penetration balance this out considerable. Impero (lit. “Empire” in English) was named for the new ‘Italian Empire’ proclaimed by Mussolini. Survivability: 45236 tons – 64300 HP Belt: 420mm between end barbettes inclined at 11º with an internal 36mm bulkhead, with a 24mm bulkhead ~4 meters further inside the hull. Main deck is 162-112mm with a 45mm upper deck. Upper belt is 70mm. Turret Faces are 380mm sloped at 30º Main Armament: 3x3 381mm/50 Ansaldo Modello 1934 (Broadside: 9 guns) RoF: 2.14 rpm (28 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 2.0 Traverse: 6º/sec (30 sec) AP: MV: 850mps Mass/Dmg: 884.8 kg (MaxDmg: 12000) SAP: MV: 880mps Mass/Dmg: 824.3 kg (MaxDmg: 11800) Secondary Battery: 4x3 152mm/55 OTO Modello 1936 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 5 rpm (12 sec) AP: MV: 910mps Mass/Dmg: 50 kg (MaxDmg: 3100) 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 15 rpm (4.0 sec) HE: MV: 860mps Mass/Dmg: 10.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1300, 5% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 12x1 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 - 114.0 dps @ 4.50 km 8x2 37mm/54 Breda 1932 - 92.8 dps @ 3.51 km 4x1 37mm/54 RM 1939 - 35.6 dps @ 3.51 km 8x2 20mm/65 Breda 1935 - 27.2 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 160000 shp Top Speed: 32.0 knots Impero becomes Roma on steroids. Or rather, she’s Roma, but without a broken ankle and a few cracked ribs. She’s fast at 32 knots, second only to the 32 knot + speed boost French battleships and the American battleships Iowa and Missouri. Her armor gives her fantastic resistance – the 70mm upper belt and 45mm upper deck giving very good protection against HE spam, and her defense against AP being out of this world. Her 420mm/11º main armor belt (the thickness being a compromise) is quite strong, allowing her to resist her own shells at just past 18.5 km broadside, and angled at only 30º she can resist her own shells at 15 km, the American 16”/50 within 16 km, and the Japanese 18.1”/45 at just over 19 km… without taking into account her internal bulkheads, and her thin citadel, despite how thin it is… because WG removed her innermost citadel bulkhead… Blue is actual, green is the current citadel. Even if they punch through the main belt, it’s almost impossible for any short fuse (hi, Royal Navy) BBs to thus hit the citadel – which means it has to be travelling at least 164mps. Shooting a broadside Impero at 10 km or greater with the French 380/45 would penetrate the belt, sure (well, until you hit 18 km) – but the shell won’t actually reach the citadel. You’ve got to be within 10 km to still have enough time to hit the belt before the shell’s fuse runs out after going through the main belt and first splinter bulkhead. In terms of firepower, she uses the same guns as Roma, but this time comes with 2.0 sigma, and a 28 second reload – somewhat offsetting the fact that you’re somewhat hurt by autobounce and having just nine barrels (Alsace still had similar caliber-weapons, but has twelve of them!). In terms of her actually getting hits, however, she should be fine. Alsace generally averages higher rates of hitting than Richelieu(7.9 shells per minute versus Richelieu’s 4.9 rpm), but that’s only a product of having 12 vs 8 guns and access to the RoF module. Without said module, it drops to 7 shells per minute, and with only 8 guns this would be 4.6 shells – Richelieu’s higher sigma (1.8 vs 1.7) coming into play. Roma, with 1.8 sigma, averages 5.4 shells. Keeping that sigma would give you 5.8 spm, 6.6 spm with the reload module. With 2.0 sigma, you’re easily seeing a similar number of shells as what Alsace achieves… and the 381/50’s AP is stronger than that of the 380/45. She’s Roma turned up to 12. Her AA is still anything but stellar, but it’s at least somewhere just under ‘on-par’ for tier IX. She’s fast, she’s durable, and she still hits hard – just more often. Tier X – (BB1936) Piave The ultimate evolution of the Italian battleship, ‘BB1936’, often known as UP.41 (Ufficiale Progetto 41 by Ansaldo’s nomenclature), this wasn’t so much an evolution past Littorio so much as it was the original idea. The Littorio’s design work was largely done under the jurisdiction of the WNT, which limited battleship design to 35000 tons standard displacement with an armament not exceeding 406mm. Naturally, just as every country had rushed to design a ship fitting the most 203mm (maximal caliber) guns as possible on a 10000 ton hull with their heavy cruisers, they did the same as with the battleships. This evolution was part of the same process that lead to Littorio, but the designers struggled as they felt it was too difficult to for nine 406mm guns on a sufficiently protected hull and get it to go 30 knots under an operational load. The weight reduction in terms of armament from choosing lower caliber weapons, in combination with the relative ease of developing new 381mm guns versus 406mm guns, lead them to shrink the armament down to ‘only’ nine 381mm guns as the project developed into what eventually became Littorio. However, development did not stop there, as Ansaldo continued to play with the design, and it grew, BB1936 being the ultimate product of these efforts, a 45000 ton vessel. However, the design did not take advantage of the more advanced protection methods used in Littorio’s armoring (such as the composite belt). Ultimately, as war came ever closer, despite the effort made to upgrade the Navy’s facilities to build and operate these large ships, it was decided to go with a repeat of the Littorio-class for the next battleship order (and thus Impero and Roma were ordered). However, Ansaldo had also sold the design to Russia, as UP.41 – with heavy modification to Russian preferences, and without the Pugliese TDS. This is the project we have data for, but needless to say it varies significantly from any design that would’ve succeeded Littorio. So, stat-wise, that is why I will try to recreate (including a composite belt, to explain the increased thickness). Her name is an interesting leap of logic for me – while personally speaking I’d love to name her Giuseppe Garibaldi, the fact of the matter is that A) by tradition only cruisers bared his name and B) By this period battleships were no longer named after people – that went out with the rise to power of the Fascists. Thus, the names of Italian battleships afterwards usually had to do with the glory of fascism (Littorio), a new Roman Empire (Impero), while Roma had a somewhat less neutral name, being named after the eternal city of Rome itself, although that still had ancient connotations to bit, as Rome always will. However, one of these ships had a name that that did not call back to a long-ago past, or a new fascist age. One ship had a name that simply spoke to Italy, the relatively young nation that existed here and now – the one that actually mattered. This was the Vittorio Veneto, named after the major victory achieved by Italy over Austria in 1918 that brought down the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Such a name was a powerful symbol that spoke more about a modern Italy – the one that mattered – than any name harking to some militaristic past or future that involved the subjugation of foreign nations. The Battle of Vittorio Veneto marked an important moment in Italian history – the final defeat, after hundreds of years of struggle, of the Hapsburg Empire, who had dominated Italy for about half a millennium. The victory not only avenged the defeat at Caporetto a year earlier, but also the centuries of foreign rule suffered by the Italian states. Thus the name I decided to go with was named after an earlier battle, but equally important, fought not long after Caporetto. Fought a little over 100 years ago, the Battle of the Piave River was where Italian troops halted and broke the Austrian offensive after the route at Caporetto. This was done in spite of the fact the Entente powers insist they fall further back, as they did not believe the Piave could be held... But hold it did. The Austrians were beaten back again on the Piave when they attempted their last offensive with a counter-attack launched 100 years ago today, and the utter defeat of this effort marked the first point where the Central Power’s command staff realized the war was beginning to end, despite the triumphs of 1917. Piave, although typically unanimously ignored by histories outside of Italy, stood as an important moment, a 20thcentury Legnano, and because of that I think that such a name is appropriate for Italy’s tier X battleship. Survivability: 49506 tons – 69300 HP Belt: 450mm between end barbettes inclined at 11º with an internal 36mm bulkhead, with a 24mm bulkhead ~4 meters further inside the hull. Main deck is 162mm with a 55mm upper deck. Upper belt is 150mm. Turret Faces are 400mm sloped at 30º Main Armament: 3x3 406mm/56 Ansaldo Modello 1936 (Broadside: 9 guns) RoF: 2.0 rpm (30 sec) Dispersion/Sigma: German, 2.0 Traverse: 6º/sec (30 sec) AP: MV: 850mps Mass/Dmg: 1350 kg (MaxDmg: 14800) SAP: MV: 870mps Mass/Dmg: 1100 kg (MaxDmg: 13500) Secondary Battery: 4x3 152mm/55 OTO Modello 1936 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 5 rpm (12 sec) AP: MV: 910mps Mass/Dmg: 50 kg (MaxDmg: 3100) 12x2 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 (Broadside: 6) RoF: 15 rpm (4.0 sec) HE: MV: 860mps Mass/Dmg: 10.1 kg (MaxDmg: 1300, 5% FC) Anti-Aircraft Battery: 12x2 90mm/50 OTO Modello 1939 - 160.8 dps @ 4.50 km 24x2 37mm/54 Breda 1932 - 378.4 dps @ 3.51 km 4x1 37mm/54 RM 1939 - 35.6 dps @ 3.51 km 24x2 20mm/65 Breda 1935 - 81.6 dps @ 2.01 km Maneuverability: Engine Power: 180000 shp Top Speed: 32.0 knots Alright, so I lied. This is not quite true to BB1936. That design intended to use a 406/50, with characteristics similar to the Russian 406mm/50 B-37, which the Italians helped develop. The planed 406/50 was to extend the given range of penetration compared to the 381/50 gun by 2000 meters – meaning it far exceeded any other gun that actually saw service in raw power. This ship doesn’t use that gun. Instead, this ship uses the monstrous 406mm/56 that was considered for the 4-16/16-40, a monstrous design that was intended to mount sixteenof these guns on a hull with 406mm of steeply inclined hull armor, and a top speed of 29 knots. The gun is your Vittorio Veneto, with the ability to rip through just short of 700mm of armor at 20 km, even the most heavily armored battleships will struggle to protect themselves from these guns, the raw penetrative power of a 1350-kilogram projectile fired at an initial muzzle velocity of 850 meters per second more than making up for the smaller caliber and the low gun count for that caliber. The raw kinetic force behind its armor-piecing gives it as high a damage potential as Yamato’s monstrous 460mm guns, and the SAP as much as American SHS! With the ridiculous velocity retention of such heavy shells, you’ll likely have issues over-penetrating cruisers just with your SAP shells – these might just be a more viable weapon than your AP at closer ranges against battleships! If your offensive armament is your Vittorio Veneto, then your armor is your Piave, because it’s a tough nut to crack. With 450mm of armor inclined at 11º, your belt is essentially 18” before angle of fall is even considered. Such a belt is seriously thick, and you retain the series of internal bulkheads to keep your citadel safe from stray rounds and the like. Angled at 45º, even Yamato’s 460mm APC won’t penetrate the belt by itself beyond 11 km. Your thick main armor deck is highly resistant to AP bombers, while your overall HE protection is improved. With a 55mm upper deck, even German 203mm HE will shatter on it, as will regular HE up to 330mm. IFHE will need to be greater than 254mm to penetrate it, and higher-penetration HE with IFHE will need to be 170mm or greater. Your 150mm upper belt provides significant protection against destroyers and light cruiser AP, and is immune to HE and IFHE of any penetration type. Even your AA protection isn’t terrible, although nor is it fantastic. Adequate is the best way to describe it. And if your armor is your Piave, then your mobility is your Carica della Savoia Cavalleria, because it’s going to get you out of (and into) trouble. Able to make 32 knots, you’re in the fastest tier X battleship, and because of your relatively small size, you’re probably able to turn much better than any other tier X battleship, too, handling more like a tier VIII than anything else. This will combine well with your good stealth. Exploit this brutally. However, that brings us on to the final point, which is your endurance. Watch how far you extend yourself, or it will be your Caporetto. You pack a huge wallop offensively, you’re fast, and you’re well armored, a tough nut to crack. However if that nut is cracked? Well, you’re light, and that means you’ve got a fairly small healthpool. You’re sitting on less than 70000 health at a tier where the lightest competitor has 82900 health, over 10000 more than you. That’s the price you pay for this unusual combination of characteristics. The Line overall So how does the line overall bring something new to WoWs? A good line can’t just be ‘more stuff’. It should bring something new to the table, and ideally do it without relying on a crazy gimmick, such as a super heal or speed boost. Nor should it rely on incredibly unrealistic rebuilding (side glance at Normandie and Lyon), or massive buffs to shell penetration (side glance at French 305 and 340mm guns). The Italian battleships start out being fairly unique from the start. While Napoli is fairly standard for a tier III battleship, SAP rounds aside, Dante Alighieri immediately takes you for something unique – a unique armament layout allowing you to bring twelve powerful 305mm barrels to bear against enemy ships at a tier where most ships can only manage ten barrels at best. Your armor is less than most of your foes, but your speed is better than most. Conte di Cavouris your last dance with a WWI-era battleship, which is a nice development – most nations don’t ditch the WWI battleships until tier VII. She again stresses a powerful broadside, boasting thirteen barrels to a broadside, and very nice firing angles – the lower turrets can traverse ±150º, and the superfiring turrets ±155º - past autobounce angles! The amidships ‘Q’-turret, meanwhile, rotates a full 360º. The armor and speed are hardly spectacular, armor being average to sub-par for the tier, and unlike before, where only the Japanese battlecruisers beat Dante in speed at tier IV – at tier V, Cavour is only about as fast as Iron Duke – well behind Kongo and Cesare, and an appreciable gap between her and König. At tier VI you start to push into the higher-tier face of the Italian battleship line, and playstyle starts to become more unique. Higher speeds with better handling, punchier guns with fast traverse and fairly sneaky for you tier. Your healthpool also starts to look a little short. However, you’re still carting over the poor armor of your predecessor with a citadel a deck over the waterline, and you’re not that fast. Both French tier VI battleships are faster than you, as is Mutsu, and Bayern’s only behind by a knot. However, with speed boost active, only the French battleships are faster than you. Tier VIII battleships will be a major threat given your low health and poor armor, and the fact that many are faster than you. Your AP is punchy, however – you’ve got more penetration than Bayern’s 380mm guns! Use your stealth to get where you need to be, and surprise enemies with powerful AP volleys. You’re probably not going to want to directly fight many other tier VI or VII battleships, but you can certainly hold your own against them. In tier VIII games, play in support of cruisers and destroyers, using your SAP rounds to gut targets most battleships would simply overpenetrate. At tier VII, you’ll be finding yourself having to do something similar, albeit with much, much thicker armor and a full 30 knots – no more speed boost, however! This puts you ahead of most, ultimately – tied only with Ashitaka and 2 knots behind Hood and Gneisenau. With a 2.0 sigma, however, your shells are going to be quite accurate, so good aim will be rewarded. As a famous American admiral said; Hit hard, Hit fast, Hit often. Your guns will be feeling fairly anemic by this point, comparing poorly to the other guns of tier VII battleships, so speed, stealth, and armor must be exploited ruthlessly in order to come out on top. Finally at tier VIII you hit Littorio. With it’s powerful, high-velocity guns and strong belt, those familiar with Roma will be at home, although the Littorio trades TDS for better AA, especially with upgrades adding to light AA. Unlike Roma, while Littorio lacks HE, its SAP rounds help it significantly to aid with one of Roma’s major issues with her main battery – chronic overpenetration of light armor. With still well over 200mm of penetration at 20 km, the 381mm SAP rounds and their shorter fuses make ideal weapons for shots against cruisers, or the upper works of angled battleships, while the AP shells will simply punch through almost any battleship armor one might expect to find in her MM range. At 30 knots you’re in the average for tier VIII battleships, but your handling is still slightly above average for the 30-knot+ club. Tier IX gives you quite a gem. Impero is a capable battleship, using the same guns but with much-improved sigma and a slight RoF boost (to 28 seconds – about the fastest RoF at loading angle the guns achieved that is known of). She’s also 2 knots faster, and has a thicker armor belt – whereas in-game Roma is proof against her guns at 22 km and beyond, Impero is proof at ranges of 18.7 km and beyond – still not quite the 16 km figure the belt was rated at (this would require a 462mm/11º belt), but still quite powerful – a moderate angle of 30º will see you safe from the American 16”/50 Mk.7 at beyond 15 km, and even Yamato’s monster 460mm guns can’t penetrate your belt from outside of 24 km, or about 19 km at a 30º angle. This drops to 13 km at 45º. However, you do pay for this with lower than average health for the tier. Tier X gives you the pinnacle of the line, Piave. This tier X battleship has stupidly strong guns and its main AP rounds may be seldom used due to the ridiculous penetration, able to punch past the belts of even well angled tier X battleships at the range of 20 km. The gun averages 9-10” more penetration at a given range than the vaunted American 16”/50 Mk.7, the most powerful 406mm gun to ever see service. At sub-5 km ranges, this 406mm Palla can penetrate over a meter of armor. Your own armor isn’t too shabby, 450mm of inclined armor, the most powerful belt at tier X. However, you’re light for your tier, and you don’t have the power of overmatch over 30mm+ plating – with only nine guns to boot! Using your stealth, speed, handling, and armor to survive will be vital to success, as otherwise damage will stack up rapidly. Thus while the lower tiers may feel very vanilla – a high gun count, but otherwise a familiar story aside from the lack of HE – the mid and higher tiers adopt their own unique flavor. Mid tiers are more modern and faster than many counterparts, but often just don’t compare in the armor department, and start to look a little underweight. This is somewhat of an experimental version of the tree, but I wanted to try it because I tend to like avoiding paper where possible, and I also though the 406/56 was simply too awesome not to use. So I do acknowledge that the tree does have other options for tier IX & X. For example, Deamon93’s version sees BB1936/UP.41, with the 406/50, at tier IX, with tier X being an unknown – the 4-16/16-40 somewhat being a placeholder due to the fact it would be absurdly overpowered in-game. That being said, there are easily other options if WG fudges it like the last three tier X BBs – a 10-gun BB with either 406mm gun would work well if still fast and well armored, using the iconic gun layout of the Abruzzi-class and the rebuilt battleships. It would also not be unrealistic to see on a modern Italian battleship – at one point this familiar layout was considered for Littorio in order to equally divide firepower fore and aft. Obviously, that route was not taken, due to weight concerns. Likewise, I should point out – the weight for many of the SAP rounds are guesstimated. I only have data for the 320mm and 381mm Granata Perforante, so I could only guess based on those shells for those that equip other guns. So, what do you guys think? As always, constructive criticism is welcome (and I'm sure I'll hear it on the tier X...). Happy Hunting!
  20. I like that they are putting in ships like West Virginia, however I would love to see either alternate, and or options to be able to get or work up to having the ship in the 1944 rebuilt construction version. I like playing Colorado and dont mind her to much in her configuration as she was refit with single 5 inch guns in her last condition. Dont get me wrong I dont think that it would make Wee Vee have to climb a tier but it would be a much better AA platform that how she is in the game now. I just think that she hit her epitome in the last build. I was somewhat impressed at how much time and money were spent on rebuilding, rearming, and modernizing the old Battleships during that time, and just went to show the slow understanding and appreciation of the aircraft carriers. I also know that there were 4 classes of standard type U.S. Battleships that came before Colorado consisting of 9 Battleships starting with Nevada. that means that World of Warships could model at the minimum of 5 and the maximum of 13 battleships, or choices of therein. Of course there are already 4 of these ships with 3 of the classes now in the game. We all no this is not likely to happen and at this point would be a nonsensible request. I have thought that they could have the option of choosing ship names, IE like lets say on Arizona you could choose Pennsylvania. Especially because they were basically Identical ships for the most part. Now, again I am happy to see New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, and now West Virginia in the game, and it might get tedious or what some people would consider ridiculous to have a battleship from all 5 standard type classes. With there already being 3 represented in the game though they would only need to put either Nevada or Oklahoma in for that class along with the choices of Tennessee or California for their class. Yes I know that a Tennessee with 12-14 inch guns would be redundant to New Mexico and would be the same tier I'm Sure along with Arizona, but for the love of money and keeping us History Channel buffs pumping more of our pay checks that direction I believe it would be worth it to them. And Yes, once again I would love to be able to play them in the original build and the last refit build also. Oh I almost forgot to mention the first South Dakota class. The six Battleships that were axed due to the Naval Treaty. BB's 49 through 54. They were going to be slightly larger Colorado's with 12-16 inch guns. (Yea, You heard me right) Twelve 406mm 50 caliber mark 2 guns. The same guns that were on the Colorado's. Just 4 more of them. They would have been considered that last Standard Type U.S. Navy Battleships. I think one of these babies could be a tier 8 easy, and or possibly a tier 9 depending on the aa suite. The speed I think would be their worst attribute at a planned 23 knots. Anyway, let me know what you think. Would you like to see some of these ships with the most modern builds on them? would you like to see the option of using different names on the ships that are/were basically Identical? would having multiple Battleships in the U.S. Line just gum up the works, or make it more versatile with slightly different play styles like they have done with Alabama and Massachusetts? I think over time it would make the game more interesting and diverse. USS West Virginia 1944 USS Tennessee 1945 1st South Dakota Class BB Model USS Nevada 1945
  21. I like using my battleship from a range of about 10-13 km away from the enemy ship which is about mid-long range. I also like using AP shells I don't mind HE either. I look for accuracy and power of the turret as well. I like going alone. Will the French or British battleships be better suited for this type of playstyle?
  22. I understand this is a contentious issue, but battleships seem to me to be far too agile, able to stop on a dime, accelerate as though at a drag race, twist and twirl at will, and dodge perfectly honest and carefully thought out torpedo spreads. This seeming immunity of bbs to torpedo attacks, means that destroyers and carriers are being deprived of their deserved successful hits. While it is accepted that WOWS is not a simulation, it is important to retain elements that increase player immersion, and a semblance of intuitive gameplay. What does intuitive mean in this case? Making sure that physics in WOWS follow a logic which we respect and live by in the real world. Now how did battleships gain speed in real life? Assuming the warships oil fired boilers are partly heated, that the battleship is lying ahull (no power to shafts), and assuming the battleship captain knew several hours in advance, that torpedos were incoming on the starboard bow; it would take a modern ww2 era battleship 3+ hours to increase team pressure sufficiently, to then increase speed. Well you may ask, who needs speed, to turn and dodge the torpedos? All ships do, without water flow around the rudders, they cannot bite, or deflect, a slow ship turns, slowly (if at all). I am not suggesting that WOWS reflect real life, quite so precisely, but I do think, an increased initial delay between "full ahead" order and actual acceleration would be an enjoyable addition to the game, if that [insert value] delay were communicated in a clear and comprehensible manner in game. In the interest of fairness, this might be applied proportionately to all ship classes, dds, cruisers and battleships. Thankyou to @Alabamastan for suggesting this topic. edit : many interesting and informed replies, hot link directory of most recent (these guys seem to know what they are talking about ) : https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/184986-battleships-are-far-too-manouvreable/?do=findComment&comment=4344391 @Ares1967 https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/184986-battleships-are-far-too-manouvreable/?do=findComment&comment=4344401 @hipcanuck https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/184986-battleships-are-far-too-manouvreable/?do=findComment&comment=4344453 @So_It_Goes https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/184986-battleships-are-far-too-manouvreable/?do=findComment&comment=4345030 @LT_Rusty_SWO
  23. I'm quite honestly a bit disappointed that when it comes to the Pennsylvania class we got the Arizona and nothing on Pennsylvania at first this shattered any hope I had of ever playing my favorite battleship from history but it's actually not necessarily a lost hope. I was equally disappointed when I saw they didn't add in West Virginia (though they eventually did, even if it wasn't how we wanted it...yet), Maryland, Oklahoma, Nevada, Tennessee, or California. Where were these iconic ships? Though I must say my biggest problem was the absence of Nevada and Pennsylvania. That being said I realized that generally these ships (as they were at Pearl Harbor) all would've hovered around tiers 5-6 anyway but then I realized they all (the ones that survived anyway) faced severe modernizations and upgrades. Nevada was near unrecognizable after her refit and Pennsylvania did too. I would suggest that in this state they would be placed like this. Oklahoma at tier 5 (no refit because she was too damaged to be repaired). Nevada at tier 6. Pennsylvania at tier 7. Nevada would have a firepower disadvantage against the likes of NM and AZ but her aa would chew through planes like paper (if they ever get around to making that system less infuriating). Pennsylvania would also suffer in main battery firepower among her peers but would have respectable secondaries, beastly armor, and a terrifying aa bubble that would make equal tier and maybe even a tier higher carriers cry. If you want to give me a reason against these ships appearing don't give me the "21 knots are painfully slow and nobody wants another slow ship" because yeah, i know. Not many people want a ship that does less than 25kts-26kts nowadays but hey I deal with it because I love the ships and 21kts is hardly a heavy price to pay for touching history and being at the helm of one of my favorite ships. Besides that feel free to tell me what you think. I'd love to see these ships but as the years have gone by I feel like WG has just neglected these ships. I found hope in their addition of West Virginia but I could see them turning around and stopping right there I hope this won't be the case and I hope to see these ships in the future as I would love to see Pennsylvanias, Tennessees, and Nevadas sailing around in matchmaking. I know it would make a lot of people happy to be able to sail their favorite ships from history and it would make me, a absolute battleship nerd, happy beyond expression, thanks for your time readers, and I apologize for the giant word block.
  24. Let me start with, you can't truly rank ships. These are all stats and you can have your own opinions about it. https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/world-of-warships-best-ships https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/world-of-warships-best-destroyer-lines https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/world-of-warships-best-battleships https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/world-of-warships-best-cruiser-lines These are articles I wrote, ranking ships for whatever use it may bring you! Maybe assist you in searching for a ship to play, though I sound like a broken record, it's all stats. So the French in "Best Cruiser lines" don't have such a good spot, due to little information on them, not many people playing them since they're so new. Do enjoy!
  25. As the title says. My mind just drifts into these places all the time. If you are not interested feel free to carry on whit your life, if not here they are. Because I know that someone will bring it up here are some rules. Scouting forces aren't involved in the main battleship engagement (Like in Dogger Bank) There is enough space to maneuver, and visibility is good. Both sides engage for enough time to do significant damage to each other. No context in any particular historical campaign or battle, this is just theoretical. The year is meant to give an idea of configuration, tactics, crew training and things like that Whit that out of the way lets continue. Battleship Division 1 (USS Arizona, USS Nevada, USS Oklahoma) VS 3rd Battleship Division (Hiei, Kirishima) (1941) USS Oklahoma Iron Duke class battleship or HMS Canada VS Tegetthoff-class (1916) HMS Emperor of India HMS Canada SMS Prinz Eugen minas Gerais-class VS Helgoland-class (1912) Minas Geraes SMS Thüringen Delaware-class (USS Delaware and USS North Dakota) VS Fuso-Class (Yamashiro and Fuso) (1920) USS North Dakota Fuso And that would be it. Thanks to anyone that responds to any of these.
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