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DeepBrine

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  1. DeepBrine

    Submarines are Coming

    What game is this? It sounds like a lot more fun that what WOWS has in mind for "submarines".
  2. Post update I have seen (for first time ever on this machine!) a fatal error that kicked me out of the application. To be clear, first time ever for any application on this machine. That includes no problems with running MATLAB, SolidWorks and Cadence products. To increase frustration levels, the game hangs as if it has comms issues in almost every session now. Delays on key strokes and mouse clicks are becoming common. Graphics will run but ships / planes freeze in place. Thinking it is time to take a LONG break from this game.
  3. DeepBrine

    Know Your (Ship) Role

    Time to add Submarines?
  4. DeepBrine

    Submarines are Coming

    Thank you for the kind reply. I will show my age by confessing that I played D&D (before the A was added). This is the kind of play that I imagine we want for submarines: "PARCHE (Red Ramage) in a wolf pack with HAMMERHEAD and STEELHEAD attacked a large escorted convoy in the Formosa Strait to the west of Formosa. Darting in and out, PARCHE fired 20 torpedoes in a daring night surface attack within a period of 46 minutes to get 15 hits. Ramage was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his aggressiveness, courage and personal heroism." https://maritime.org/doc/subsinpacific.htm#pg6 With the 6:1 time ratio already in place in the game, this would be an 8 minute session. Worth noting (IMHO) is that this was a night time, surface attack using straight run torpedoes. No need for acoustic homing torpedoes, or submerged speeds of 20+ knots. I also would like to bring the Wahoo's famous "Destroyer gunning, Wahoo running" incident to the table as we think about how to handle the deck gun of a submarine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wahoo_(SS-238)#Third_patrol,_January_–_February_1943 Here, Wahoo had expended all torpedoes and was choosing to engage targets with her deck gun when she found herself outgunned by a destroyer and busy running. As for submarine versus aircraft game opportunities... this is entertaining reading: https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/blimp-vs-u-boat/ I think it would also be good to start with the WW1 boats. U-9 demonstrated that U-boats were a real combat force and changed the way the British thought of submarines. The surface ships in the following encounter are already in the game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_22_September_1914 Perhaps this does not fit into an arcade or session style game but I would rather the game reflect actual, historical submarine capabilities (and weaknesses) than a selection of gimmicky things to "balance" play. Submarines were fragile, submersible, torpedo boats. They changed the torpedo boat vs <torpedo boat> destroyer dynamic by being able to use submerged stealth to attack a target and evade counter attack. Later on, they used night time and radar for fast surface attacks before diving to hide for survival. These characteristics should to be modeled in the game if these are to be considered submarines. The concern about who would play such a game is overstated, IMHO. There is a vocal group here in this forum advising WG to not walk away from the historical accuracy embodied in the core of the game. Game balance is important but this should not be achieved by sacrificing the very elements of the military units you are attempting to model. Stick to what was really there. Yes, submarines are slow, ungainly and stink beyond belief. Better to be playing a difficult vessel well than making it so easy it has no heart and soul. Not everyone can be an aviator or submariner. It takes different mindset and skills. BBs, CCs and DDs already exist for folks who would find the CV and SS frustrating. Don't attempt to emulate those ship classes into CVs and SSs.
  5. DeepBrine

    remove ocean map

    Sure would be nice if this map were in the regular Co-op and Random rotation for all tiers. Might actually get folks to play their ships as teams instead of hiding behind islands. Seeing a lot of FPS play instead of team play.
  6. DeepBrine

    Submarines are Coming

    Thanks for the response. Always good to see that a developer is reading the comments. I am encouraged that you found nothing wrong with my statements regarding Acoustic Homing Torpedoes, Auto Depth Charges, Fictional Hydrographic imagery, or the use of "Oxygen" as the limitation on why a submarine can be submerged. I hope this means that the above items will be corrected / improved / removed. As for the "Do You really wish it be that long because of realism?" question... 1) "Shortest Naval Battle lasted 6 hours" - totally wrong. Try some research. Bismark / Prinz Eugen vs Hood / Prince of Wales lasted from 0535 sighting of Bismark by Hood to 0610 retiring of Prince of Wales from the engagement following the loss of the Hood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait That was 35 minutes, not 6 hours 2) Realism does not have a linear relationship to time spent playing. Any game developer has a basic grasp of this concept. To put this up as an excuse for not knowing the history of the events your game is attempting to model is sad. The listed example above (Bismark versus Hood) played out in the current game would last 5 to 10 minutes. Apparently the game does a decent job of simulating a half hour of combat in about 5 minutes. This makes your hypothetical 6 hour naval battle (source?) a one hour game. As a second generation submarine sailor, I will stick around to see how they are implemented in WOWS but honestly, it is not looking good. I suspect Gato on my old Apple will be more realistic and faster playing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_(video_game) As for the "would you play for 6 hours" question, once upon a time people actually had attention spans that supported playing games like this: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3083/submarine https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1375/guadalcanal https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4984/jutland Just imagine if someone took the mechanics of games like these and automated them with a computer so the players could focus on the actual play... Hey! I bet the computer could even handle the double blind aspect of the air search mechanic in Guadalcanal!!! -- That would be so COOL!!
  7. DeepBrine

    Submarines are Coming

    I guess they are bringing us submarines... I wish I were happy about what I have seen in the announcement. I was looking forward to submarines but this implementation (as described) takes away much of what I was interested in. A few thoughts: Acoustic homing torpedoes? This was new tech in mid WWII. Why this is standard for all submarines is not obvious to me. Further, it was effectively counter measured with Foxer and FXR systems by the RN and USN. Will that be an option for the surface ships? The existing torpedo firing interface would be effective enough. Acoustic homing torps is for up levels. Auto depth charge dropping? Much of the DD vs SS interaction was getting those depth charges in to the right location and depth. Add in Hedgehog and K-gun launchers and there is much room for a dynamic interaction between those DDs and SSs. The primary way of attacking another ship should not be an automatic function. Acoustic picture of depth terrain (hydrography)? You have to be kidding me. This simply is fantasy. In what world was this ever a thing for any navy, ever??? This and the "three depths" of surface/periscope/deep are just wrong. Not all water is deep enough for even "periscope", much less "deep". The charts should have three gradations of water depth on them (for all players to see) that indicate this range of depths. Shallows that limit submarine operations exist and have real impact on how submarines are used. At a minimum, there should be shallow water choke points that force submarines to be periscope/surface in order to transit. Oxygen? REALLY??? The underwater power limitation was battery capacity. Just call it "Battery" and stop making up stuff. Snorkeling (for countries that have invented that tech) and running on the surface (the rest of them) recharges the battery. Very real concerns for captains about keeping battery capacity up. One might even allow consumables that give an underwater speed burst at additional battery consumption. While we are at it, let's talk about reload rates and max load out for torpedoes on all ship types. It is utterly ridiculous to see torpedo spamming from DDs. It will be worse from SSs. Just stop it. There are real numbers for how many torpedoes / depth charges / shells were carried by the ships played in the game. Use them. Put in real reload rates. Launching torpedoes was a significant event in the encounter, not a "keep hitting the button" kind of thing. The attraction of this game WAS a connection to a physics based, historically accurate game play. This has been eroding over time. While there may be folks who are interested in what it is becoming, for me, it is becoming less interesting with every new departure from physics and historical accuracy. I would say I won't spend money anymore but honestly, I have not spent money yet. This is not due to a lack of money. It reflects my lack of trust in the game being something that I will want to play in the future. I was anticipating that a good, physics based, historically accurate naval game would entice me to spend some $$$. I still want to spend $$$, but WOWS has not convinced me yet.
  8. DeepBrine

    Port: Pearl Harbor, Hawaii

    I selected Hawaii with the anticipation of seeing it again. I was stationed there for 4 years and was looking forward to seeing the 1940's version. Very disappointed. Nothing about the image reminded me of Pearl Harbor or Hawaii. The mountains are the wrong shape, color and distance from the harbor. The harbor area bears no resemblance to the navigable portion of any harbor in Hawaii. The buildings, the infrastructure, the dock front all are wrong and have no connection to reality. Heck, even the water is the wrong color! Look, I understand it takes time to do something like this. With that in mind, do it right or don't do it at all. They should have a home port (done right) for each nationality. Then they should have ports that are famous, done right. This is not rocket science or brain surgery. There is plenty of imagery from WWII of the places of interest (aerial and otherwise). There are plenty of GIS based models of these locations today. Get it right or don't do it. This was an embarrassment. Back to "Ocean" for me. At least that is not full of historical inaccuracies, misplaced buildings, weird geography and totally unrealistic dock facilities. (While they are fixing Hawaii, they might also want to take peek at the Philippines, New York and likely every other so-called harbor. Absolutely ridiculous that this is not done right.)
  9. DeepBrine

    Where to go at the beginning of a battle

    An option that I have used and see others use is to declare a team mission or own task in team chat. "Take CAP A first" would be an example. "I will be supporting CAP C" is another. Most folks will work together, if given some kind of guidance. I started doing this when I was starting on my CV. I found it helped my team mates if they had some idea of what I was trying to do with the ungainly, slow and useless baby flat top. At least, they seemed to yell at me less. ;-) It also helps during the battle to use the "concentrate fire on enemy target". This can quickly improve the team coordination and odds of winning. Not everyone responds well to this in chat. Have a thick skin and remember it is a game.
  10. DeepBrine

    Weapon Bearing (Shift-X) (Ctrl-X) (X)

    Anyone? I would definitely like the ability to have the non-firing guns traversing through a turn rather than stuck in the end-stop for the majority of the turn.
  11. DeepBrine

    Bored with game

    I would like to see more maps. The grinds would be more interesting if I did not keep finding myself on the same 5 maps. Surely, this is the easiest, cheapest thing to generate. An intern setting up some fractal code and voila, new maps!
  12. DeepBrine

    CV Mismatch

    Post the replay so we can all enjoy the demonstration of skill.
  13. DeepBrine

    Question for you CV players out there

    When I joined, I decided to play CVs to balance/team the other folks I know IRL in the game. We had high hopes since they were more of the "twitchy" kind of players while I tend more to the strategy kind of play. That plan has been put on the back burner and we (the IRL folks) are focusing on different games. This is because CVs have become unplayable. To be clear, I was prepared to be the "coach / water boy" for my team. No problem with them having the glory kills as long as the team progressed. The last round of changes to AA have made even that role unrealistic. Worse for WeeGee is it has seriously impacted the community trust in the game. Why put time / money into a style of play when the game programming gods can (and apparently will) change the rules in such a random and bizarre fashion that the investment is worthless? I agree with the posters who say don't waste your time in the CV lines, at the moment. While it is likely they (WeeGee) will do something to make CVs playable again, it is anyone's guess what that will be and how it will effect each of the lines and levels. You have better odds in Vegas since at least there laws exist on how badly tilted the tables can be.
  14. Good advice but at this point I am losing interest in playing CVs and I can't say that the rest of the ships are holding my interest either. Just did a dozen BB and CC games but not that exciting. Game is feeling lame. Probably need to go do something else.
  15. Played my CV three times yesterday. Even with my preference for supporting team mates, the AA kill zones makes it next to impossible to even play "spotter" for the team. Figure I will work on the grind for the other lines and look at other game that actually encourage teamwork and strategy. This one is failing.
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