BattleBard149

I see your point. But if they can shoehorn ww2 subs into the game by making them totally unlike the actual ww2 subs and far stronger, then why not let us have destroyer escorts and PT boats too, which many have asked for. They can just give them far more HP than they actually had, much more powerful guns and torpedoes than they actually had, and bring them on in. Why not? Fair Seas

Exactly. Submarines were not designed (at that time) to engage in fleet actions with surface vessels. Though they did sink warships on occasion, it rarely occurred during fleet actions and was often a result of pure luck or intelligence data when an enemy warship was attacked or sunk by them. During the battle of the Philippine Sea, for example, subs did sink or damage some ships (even carriers) but not directly as part of a fleet action. The Japanese supercarrier Shinano was sunk on its maiden voyage by the Archerfish... again, not as part of a fleet action, but in a solitary, planned attack based on good intelligence. Submarines were excellent for scouting, special Ops (landing commandos, etc), rescuing downed aviators and assisting a fleet in other ways. But they were not designed or suited for combat with warships in fleet actions. The job they were designed for, and excelled at, was destroying merchant ships and crippling an enemy's supply lines (as shown by the U-boats initial successes and by the US submarine's reduction of the Japanese merchant fleet. They simply were not made for fleet actions, other than to assist in them in ways other that being part of a fleet attack. For one thing, they were ungodly slow compared to surface vessels, especially when submerged. They could not keep up with a fleet, and changing their speed to what we see in game now is just a way to try to force a square peg into a round hole. Plus only the Germans had a practical homing torpedo during the war, guided by propeller sounds of an enemy ship, and those only near the end of the war. Like I said, square peg in a round hole... one into which subs were never designed to fit. Now if WG would make a special type of battle for subs, say attacking convoys that are guarded by destroyers and maybe some other warships at times, then I would say that could be a very good way to use them. One team using subs and the other defending in the DDs and whatnot. But, if WG wants to give all the subs technology that they didn't really have, like homing torpedoes, then they should also give the DDs things like hedgehogs to attack them with, since those were also in use in the latter parts of WW2. Fair Seas

LOL, said Merlin. From one of my favorite movies of year's past, and IMHO the best ever depiction of the Arthurian legends. Excaliber

LOL. A very good comparison indeed. And the BBs and CAs are the other shoppers, waiting patiently and hopefully to pick up the smaller, less desirable sets that got overlooked by the mob.

Yep... COOP has always been this way to a degree, that's true. But it's worse now than I've seen in my 4 years or so of playing. Games that used to last maybe 7-10 minutes now rarely last even 4. An average game now is about 3.5 minutes it seems, so if you are in a BB with a 30 second reload that's theoretically 7 salvos. Yet it takes a couple minutes to get within range after the game starts, so now down to 3 salvos.. and that's at best in many games. Whatever the reason/reasons, COOP has become, as many have said, a mere feeding frenzy for the torpedo boats, while the other ships just watch and hope for a chance to get something, anything. All I know is that when I first started playing, it wasn't like this...

Ahoy mates, It's been said before now, many times, but after another totally frustrating morning of trying to play some BBs and CAs I just had to come here and vent a bit. COOP (of which I have been a main for years now) is basically a total waste of time now for ships w/o torpedoes... especially slow ships w/o torpedoes. Game after game, ship after ship after ship, I urge my slow mount forward, big guns at the ready, hoping for some action, trying to get hits on the targets as they come in range... only to see a massive wall of torpedoes heading towards any possible targets, often toward several targets at once. And before I can garner many, if any hits, the ship/ships go down to torpedoes -- torpedoes launched en masse by fast DDs and CLs generally. They rush directly at ships that outgun them tremendously, in attacks that IRL would be suicidal... yet they almost always succeed now, due to the bots being totally unable to shoot straight with their main guns or defend themselves with their inaccurate and imponent secondaries... secondaries that were purpose designed to keep such ships at bay. Yet now DDs just rush straight at them with virtually no fear of being destroyed and routing the mighty BBs and CAs as they go. For a while there, COOP was working great, after they reduced the occurrence of the mercy rule and the bots had been tuned to give a good challenge, with decent tactics. Now, it has become a waste of time, a mad rush of small torpedo ships launching will-nilly (especially now that friendly fire is a thing of the past), and taking the lion's share of damage and kills whilst larger ships just pick up what scraps they can. Is nothing going to be done? Are the people at WOWS purposely trying to make COOP so bad that people will go play randoms just to get away from it? I have not been one to believe in conspiracy theories, but now even I have begun to wonder. Fair Seas

The Moskva is a really good ship, but honestly the Napoli is one of the most FUN ships I've played in quite a while. If you put Luigi Sansonetti on her, it's a blast to watch those secondaries go off leaving the red trails behind them. Her secondaries will chew up lightly armored ships and do good damage against most other targets too. One of the funniest things I've had happen with her was the time I was firing away at another ship, and I hadn't set my manual secondaries yet, so they we're tearing something up that I didn't see. Seconds later, i got a message saying I had sunk an enemy submarine. He had the bad luck to come up near me and those SAP secondaries tore him a new one in short order. He was gone b4 I even knew he was there. I find her secondary play to be even more fun than the German or the American secondary ships. And her main guns are good too... don't underestimate them. I do a lot of damage with them. Keep in mind I am a coop main, so I can't comment on her use in randoms. Fair seas.

Definitely the CV-8 Yorktown class. This photo shows the Yorktown (CV-5) after battle damage at Midway: And here is the CV-12 at it's commissioning ceremony in 1943: As others have said, look at the duel twin 5" mounts fore and aft of the bridge superstructure. The WG photo clearly does not have them, so it must be the CV-8, Yorktown class Hornet. Of course, WG is known to change things to suit them, so who knows honestly. Fair Seas

100% this. COOP is no better with the changes, and in some ways seems worse. A standard game now is DD's rush in with no fear at all, since bots cant shoot and secondaries (designed to keep DDs at bay) are virtually no threat to them on most ships. They torp everything in sight as fast as possible.. no smoke, virtually no tactics... just rush in and torp immediately. The only other ships that generally get much are the torpedo cruisers that yolo in as well. If you play a BB (esp a slow one) or a cruisers w/o torpedoes, you are almost guaranteed in most games to get little to nothing. The 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 minute games allow just a few salvos and then game over. Something else I notice is that the "mercy" rule, which they had really done a good job of minimizing until recently is now back in full force. Even if I manage to get something going in a cruiser or BB w/o torps, many times the game ends with the "mercy" rule just as I have gotten in range and started getting hits on a target. COOP has become a feeding frenzy for DDs and torpedo cruisers, with anyone else picking up whatever scraps that they can. And I know it has been this way forever, but the way it is now is far worse than ever I've seen. I'm waiting until after the holidays to judge it fairly though, since I know many randoms mains are playing COOP to blow of snowflakes right now, and their objective is always the fastest game possible. I totally agree with this as well. Many games the torps are so thick it is impossible to get close to a target ship w/o getting hit by them. Torpedo discipline has become a thing of the past with players launching them will-nilly with no concern at all for the allied ships in the area. Just launch as many as you can in the general direction of the enemy and to heck with any allies in the area. It makes for ridiculous games and zero skill on the part of many of the torpedo ships.. Fair Seas

Ahoy mates, I finally got my wife to play some with me over the summer, but she hasn't been on in a while. She logged in today for the first time for the Christmas stuff, and got a free crate as soon as she logged in. It was her first Santa crate (the smallest one). When she opened it, lo and behold there was a shiny new West Virginia 1941... from her very first Santa crate ever. Took me forever to get a ship from one. Fair Seas

Got 'em...

I got only crates from my twenty-five tier 10 ships, and the 1 free mega 1 free big they gave me. So from 6 Mega crates and 1 big crate I got: 40 New Year streamer camo 50 Extra Credits flags 50 Free XP flags 50 Commander XP flags 12 Red Dragon flags Plus the last Mega crate gave me: So I really can't complain about the free stuff. Happy Hunting and Holidays...

Actually, no. You must be looking at randoms, cause I've played it many times in coop...as I am a coop main. I didn't even realize I had ever played it in randoms. Just checked. Yep, 1 random battle and 158 battles in coop. Not a lot anyway, granted, but I tend to spend a lot of time jumping one ship to another and a lot at low tiers. Oddly, in comparison to most, I find them a lot of fun.

OK...thanx for the info guys. I'll keep an eye out for it. I should remember things like that, but the ol' brainbox ain't what she used to be.

I just downloaded the new patch and checked, but I don't see it. I wonder if it will be offered closer to Xmas, or if that's not happening any more.? If so, I guess I won't be getting premium time anymore. I have purchased it every year, but I guess no more.