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Beausabre

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About Beausabre

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  1. Beausabre

    The Iowa Diet Plan

    Don't forget that the plan was to dig a third, wider set of locks, to be ready by the time the Montanas were commission. Also, imagine you are in Canal's design office circa 1910, "Are you sure we need to make the locks so wide? They dwarf anything afloat. Congress is asking questions, wants to save money"
  2. Beausabre

    Error with Erie Class Gunboat AAA

    Speaking personally, I like the Eries, maybe because they were unique in the USN, modern gunboats (sloops). IRL, of course, they pretty well lacked a mission - Charleston spent the war in the North Pacific and Erie served as an escort in the Gulf and Caribbean before her loss in 42. The last points to how the Charleston should have been employed. The Coast Guard's Treasury (327 Foot) Class is generally regarded as the best cutters ever built and, as they used as the Erie's hull and machinery, they were half sisters. They were even designed to carry aircraft the same way. The big difference was armament, typically the 5/51 inch (A, B, & Y position) and three 3/50 inch DP (C and P & Q (sided) positions), 6 X 1 20mm Oerlikons were added (2 in the bridge wings and 4 in a large tub aft of the stack) early in the war. Due to their being excellent sea boats and big enough to accommodate large numbers of survivors, they were used as convoy escort flagship and were popular and successful in that role. At least Campbell and Spencer sank U-boats - while Hamilton was torpedoed by a U-boat off Iceland. The only unit in the Pacific, Taney, was converted to 4 X 5/38 inch DP after she came to the Atlantic - but since no others converted, that must be viewed as unsuccessful. I think the cause was that the cutters didn't have the Mark 33 fire control system the gunboats did and their guns had to fire in local control. But, what if the 6/47 inchers on the Charleston were replaced by 5/51 inch from rearmed battlewagons or with the 5/38 inch Mark 12 (actually proposed to the General Board with a note stating it would be useful protecting Pearl Harbor from air attack!) as module options? Here's how the guns compare 5/51 Mark 8, 14, 15 AP & HE Rounds 50 lbs Range 18,800 yards, Penetration 4 inches @ 3200 yards 3 inches @ 5200 yards 2 inches @ 8000 yards 1 inch (deck) at 19600 yards ROF 8-9 RPM 5/38 Mark 12 SAP ("Special Common") & HE Rounds 55 lbs Range 17,392 yards Altitude 37,200 ft Penetration 5 inches @ 4000 yards 4 inches @ 5400 yards 3 inches @ 7400 yards 2 inches @ 11,000 yards 1 inch (deck) at 13,800 yards ROF (base ring mounts) 15 to 22 RPM 6/47 Mark 16 AP Rounds 130 lbs HE rounds 105 lbs Range AP 26,118 yards HE 23,483 yards Penetration Not Available ROF 8-10 RPM Campbell with 2 X 5/51 inch 4 X 3/50 inch https://i.redd.it/yfpia6t5p29y.jpg Taney rearmed with 4 X 5/38 https://www.preservationmaryland.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Taney_7.jpg 5/38 Ammunition http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.php 6 Inch Ammunition http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_6-47_mk16.php
  3. Your comments, please HMS SAINT GEORGE, BRITISH LARGE CRUISER Other members of class HMS St Andrew, HMS St Patrick, HMS St David, HMCS Canada, HMIS Emperor of India Cruiser Killers designed to utilize 9.2-inch guns removed from Lord Nelson and King Edward VII class pre-Dreadnoughts (52 guns) Data for Displacement, Dimensions, Armament, Armor and Machinery input in Springsharp Warship Design Program which generated and evaluated results (from Complement to end of report) Laid down 1939 Displacement: 17,527 t light; 18,260 t standard; 20,321 t normal; 21,970 t full load Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught 732.87 ft / 720.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load) 223.38 m / 219.46 m x 24.38 m x 8.53 m Armament: 8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1905 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring 12 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (6x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1935 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring 32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x8 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1930 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring 8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x8 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1930 Model Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist on centreline aft 30 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 14 raised mounts Weight of broadside 3,747 lbs / 1,700 kg Shells per gun, main battery: 150 6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 424.80 ft / 129.48 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead: 2.00" / 51 mm 424.80 ft / 129.48 m 22.55 ft / 6.87 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm - 3rd: 0.75" / 19 mm - - 4th: 0.75" / 19 mm - - 5th: 0.50" / 13 mm - - - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 92,302 shp / 68,857 Kw = 31.00 kts Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3,710 tons Complement: 850 - 1,106 Cost: £8.114 million / $32.457 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 468 tons, 2.3 % Armour: 6,355 tons, 31.3 % - Belts: 1,940 tons, 9.5 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 709 tons, 3.5 % - Armament: 902 tons, 4.4 % - Armour Deck: 2,803 tons, 13.8 % - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 % Machinery: 2,468 tons, 12.1 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,035 tons, 39.5 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,795 tons, 13.8 % Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.0 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 35,926 lbs / 16,296 Kg = 92.3 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10 Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m Roll period: 16.2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck and transom stern Block coefficient: 0.441 Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 31.12 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length): - Stem: 29.52 ft / 9.00 m - Forecastle (21 %): 18.78 ft / 5.72 m - Mid (40 %): 18.78 ft / 5.72 m - Quarterdeck (20 %): 18.78 ft / 5.72 m - Stern: 18.78 ft / 5.72 m - Average freeboard: 19.68 ft / 6.00 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.0 % Waterplane Area: 37,884 Square feet or 3,519 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1.05 - Longitudinal: 1.30 - Overall: 1.08 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
  4. Let's see, First the 327 Footers (Treasury or Secretary class) were seven vessels intended as ocean station ships. The design essentially used the hull and machinery of the Erie (PG50) class gunboats. All seven were built at navy yards in the late Thirties and another three were projected but WW2 resulted in their cancellation. They had long range and were excellent seaboats and at 2000 tons could carry a large number of survivors, so they made ideal convoy escort flagships. Six served in the Atlantic with one (Alexander Hamilton) being lost in 1942. Taney served in the Pacific, mainly as a patrol and weather vessel (as did its half sister, Charleston). Armament varied, as there were six different gun foundations (A-B-C positions forward, P & Q to port and starboard at the after end of the deckhouse and Y position on the quarterdeck), most were fitted with 5/51 low angle guns in positions A B and Y and 3/550-inch dual purpose in positions C P and Q. I've seen variations on this. Taney was modified at Boston when she redeployed to the Atlantic in Late43/Early44 to carry four 5/38's in positions A B P and Y. Two 20mm AA were carried in tubs before the bridge and four more in a large tub surrounding the stack. Unfortunately the experiment was not a success, and not repeated, I would think because no director and fire control system were added and the 5-inch battery had to fire in local control rather than being directed by the excellent Mark 37 fire control system.. In the end in late 1944/early 45 they were pulled from their duties and rebuilt from gunboats (WPG) to small amphibious flagships (AGC). They reverted to the USCG post-war were rebuilt into gunboats and served into the Eighties. In terms of game play Erie class - weight of fire (105 pound shells) times four guns, but no heavy AA Treasury - Better rate of fire (8-9 rounds per minute vs 5-8) but only has 50 pound shells times three guns, Also has medium AA capability (13 pound 15-20 rpm) Taney - Rate of fire (15-22 rpm) but only has 55 pound shells, in local control., Also has heavy AA capability (DP), although not controlled So you do the math and figure out the one that is most attractive to you.
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