A_Basic_Potato

Overall I enjoyed this round of testing compared to the previous rounds. Others may feel differently but with a few tweaks I feel they will be in a good place. The changes I would look into implementing are: Make the dive capacity have infinite instead of finite. I think subs are lacking in more of the mid to end game when the dive capacity is depleted. I think it would be better to implement a recharge where after being on the surface for X minutes the sub can recharge its dive time to the full amount over another period of X minutes. As an example: Balao can stay underwater for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes when it is forced to surface, the recharge timer/cooldown begins for say 2 minutes. After 2 minutes the Balao will start to recharge its dive capacity to the max capacity over say 5 minutes. During any portion of that 5 minutes while it fills to max the player can re-dive with whatever capacity they currently have but as soon as they surface again the 2 minute recharge timer begins again. I think something like this would create a healthy amount of surface time plus underwater time while not forcing the player to essentially die at the end of the game because they cant escape anything. The next change I would look into is increasing the lower tiers dive times. Right now they feel too low to actually do anything. Perhaps they could try to increase it by a minute or two, but then again, unlimited dive time with recharge may solve that problem. The next change I would make would to let all the subs have unlimited sonar charges. Just like the Austin with its unlimited reload booster. Subs should have the same with sonar. I think the cooldown is fine but if had to, perhaps it could be longer for balance reasons. Its nice to periodically see where ships are to help position better when surfacing. There were many times that I used it while running out of dive capacity to try and position so I wasn't within detectability range when I surfaced and it helped a lot. The last few points are more quality of life/wishful thinking: Id like to see the secondary deck gun have the ability to be controlled by the player. When its just two subs left on the surface at tier 6, it still takes a while to sink one another even with the deck gun. Having it player control would help surface sub v sub fights. Although at tier 10, there's really not much you can do except ram but that's nor here or there for this point. It would also be nice to have the U2504 have its AA functionality. Sure it may not be the most useful tactic but at the end when I am stuck on the surface being chased by a CV with no ability to dive, it be nice to attempt to shoot down a plane or two. I mean hey, if I'm going to die, might as well get something for it. There should be more distinction between nation's submarines. While I wasn't unpleased with the German vs American submarine, I do see others viewpoint on there not being enough distinction between the two. The commander skills need another rework for submarines. There are too many skills that are conditioned on having no dive capacity or being detected. It feels like the skills are more of a last ditch effort to do anything rather than complimenting any style of play that submarines may have. I also think it would be nice if we could fine each torpedo individually for each sub instead of in pairs. All in all that's about everything I can think of in the immediate moment. I enjoyed all the changes made and was pleased with where they are right now but other may feel differently.

I've only experienced one "prime time" session on this submarine iteration so far. These are my thoughts so far with one day play time and I plan to update this as I continue to test. None the less here are my thoughts (in no specific order but I will do my best to format it nicely) Feedback: Submarines are better but still require minor tweaking, and there are also some quality of life changes/desires that I hope are taken into consideration. Submarine Thoughts and Desires: Thought: Submarine underwater visuals are pleasing Desire: Keep it the same Thought: The sonar ping is also pleasing to the eye and fun to use when searching for enemy submarines Desire: Keep it the same Thought: The torp laser is nice to get a general idea of where the torps will go when launched Desire: Keep the laser indicator present when in periscope view underwater so we have a better idea of the direction our torpedoes will launch Feedback: When trying to attack enemy ships underwater, attempting to maneuver the submarine hull to launch torpedoes at a better angle often results in me over or under launching the torpedoes in relation to the target. Even with homing, it makes it tricky to land proper hits. I would like to see that underwater torpedo laser brought over to the zoomed in camera view as well to help better gauge the torpedo launch angles. Thought: Sub vs Sub warfare is tedious and at times frustrating when you can't go undetected or kill the enemy submarine Desire 1: Allow submarines to go completely undetected at a range of values (ex: 30m-50m, 40m-50m, (or when max depth 50m-80m is used)) so submarines have some form of escape. In exchange allow it so submarines cannot detect friendly or enemy submarines and ships at this depth. Also disable all ability to shoot torpedoes at this depth so it is made more clear that this depth is used only for moving around undetected/escaping. Desire 2: Another option would be to allow a submarine to go completely undetected from the depth of 30m-50m and 50m-80m, when moving at 1/4 speed or lower Feedback for both desires: It is frustrating when once detected via proximity by enemy sub or surface ship, it is impossible to go undetected/escape. The enemy submarine will just follow you around trying to torp you and it allows the enemy to have a constant location to drop depth charges. For once, it feels like submarines have no counterplay in this scenario. It also results in little damage gained for either side and results in mostly wasting time. Thought: Submarine camera between 6m-10m is annoying when trying to see the surface and get information Desire: Please add a toggle button (like AA on/off) that we can bind, which function is to raise a periscope and and allow the zoomed in camera view to be as if we were on the surface. This would only be available to use between the depth of 6m-10m Feedback: The camera view when between 6m-10m is annoying because the screen is mainly underwater while so close to the surface. A periscope option would be nice for both immersion and information gathering (since I would be able to see the surface again) Thought: The submarine dive/ascend times are nice but still may need a little tweaking Desire: Play with the values to see if any adjustments can be made. Feedback: I know each nation has different dive/ascend times but in conjunction with the camera view issue above at 6m-10m, sometimes it feels too slow just to go up or down a few meters, in certain scenarios. I understand this was changed due to the previous invulnerability exploit and I do admit that the current dive times feel nice and more, "realistic", for lack of a better word, but sometimes its frustrating when trying to move forward with an attack at full speed and not being able to clearly see. Thought: Submarines cant escape planes that follow you on the surface when the CV is dead and the planes are last alive Desire: Enable the use of the deck gun as secondaries and AA Feedback: When trying to traverse the surface level and there is an dead CV but still a player controlling the last of the planes, it results in them keeping you permanently spotted with no ability to shoot them down. The use of a deck gun would at least allow us to shoot down the planes and traverse on the surface at full speed to cover more ground when the need to move across the map arises. It also helps encourage submarines to go to the surface or use the surface level more often. Lastly, it would help if used as secondaries to shorten the prolonged sub verse sub battle when only two subs are left alive. Thoughts: Submarine gameplay feels kind of slow, sometimes Desire: I'm honestly not sure the solution is. Limit the amounts of DDs to two per match and one sub per match? Make the maps bigger and add more than twelve per side? More consistency for submarines in general? Feedback: Submarines feel like they are often all or nothing right now. Perhaps this is due to my lack of experience and playtime in this test sessions iteration but most games I either do good damage or no damage, often wasting time chasing/being chased by other submarines. I'm not sure what the solution to this is and this thought may just be more of a "me" problem so I will leave this as a debatable topic depending on point of view. Feedback 2: Throughout testing different strategies often dictate how the match will feel. Play aggressive in subs and get some damage but often result in sub vs sub combat while being infinitely spotted. Playing aggressive resulted in shorter lives with me killing multiple subs until the enemy team was able to suppress and kill me with depth charges. Likewise, playing passive and mainly taking longer range shots while doing some recon often resulted in lower damage but longer life. I still feel there is something that could be better here but I still cannot provide what may be the solution to this issue. Thought: This is a touchy thought but in some cases I think citadels do too much damage Desire: Adjust citadel damage in tier 6 to be lower and increase it like normal as we get to tier 8 and finally 10. Feedback: Even playing as a submarine and surface ship, some citadel damages feel too high. This can obviously be tweaked whenever if overperforming but as a surface ship, trying to shoot other surface ships often distracts one and leads to taking massive damage. Especially when the ping is masked by a fire. (We will discuss this below) As a submarine it feels too powerful (for me at least) given the tier we are testing in. Again this is debatable depending on the view so I will leave it as a "me" problem. Thought: Submarine mechanics need a better more through explanation with various examples Desire: Better in game examples or tutorials of all the submarine mechanics not fully explained well. Feedback: The controls for submarines are fine but some other areas need better explaining. An example of this is how the submarine vs submarine detection works. Another is the question of, do we get detected when an enemy submarine or ship is in range and we use sonar? There just isn't the clarity to fully understand and realize the mechanics in place to utilize submarines to the best of their abilities. Again, it could just be a "me" problem depending on point of view. Surface Ships Thoughts and Desires: Thought: The way the submarine mechanic works, it is nearly impossible to shoot/damage a submarine that is above 10m since I dont know where to aim Desire: Add a Green oval on the ocean above the enemy submarine to give the player a better indication of where the submarine hull is when it is not visible on the surface but at "surface level" (above 10m) Feedback: Surface ships have no point of reference when shooting shells at a "surface level" submarine since the hull is still below the ocean. A green oval like the dive bomber reticle but above the enemy submarine would help in targeting enemy submarines with surface ships guns Thought: It would be nice to have a mini map range circle for the max range we can use depth charge planes out to Desire: Allow surface ships to see the max range of the Depth Charge planes to they know when the earliest range they can launch them to put pressure on the enemy submarine is. Feedback: As a BB it was annoying to figure out what the range of the depth charge plane was for the first few games. Thought: Do PBY depth charge planes spot un-detected surface ships? Desire: Find out if this works Feedback: As a DD hunting subs in my smoke and also CLs hunting DDs, I cannot tell if I was spotted by players using the Depth Charge planes as infinite spotting planes. If this is the case PBY depth charge planes should not be able to spot. Thought: When my ship has multiple fires and I am trying to also shoot an enemy surface ship, the double pin on my hull gets obstructed by the flames animation and my ship hull in general Desire: A few new UI indicators like "Hydro", "Radar", "CV Spotted", etc. for all surface ships. These will say, "Submarine Located/Spotted", "Submarine Torpedoes Locked", and "Citadel Vulnerable". They wording can be changed but the concept is what matters. These warnings can even have a 5s-10s window before disappearing. Feedback: When a ship is on fire and the player is focusing on shooting enemy ships, sometimes the submarine's highlighted ping section becomes washed out and hard to notice. Adding these UI indicators with color coating can help the player still maintain better situational awareness. The wording can be changed but if a submarine lock appears in yellow and a citadel lock appears in red, it is still up to the player to maintain awareness but doesn't rely on strictly hull visuals. Also if there is a timer for the warnings, it helps balance player awareness with the submarines opportunity. Feedback 2: There still needs to be additional UI indicators and even sounds such as a sonar ping hitting the hull or something. In multiple of my matches, I have been pinged once or twice but based on my camera view of the other side of the ship, I could not see the ping and thus wasn't aware I was even being targeted. Other Thoughts and Side notes None so far, but time will tell Overall Thoughts: Thought: Submarines are still fun and tricky to master. While I would like to see the tweaks above implemented, this is still the best test iteration out of the bunch (my opinion of course). Thought 2: I still enjoy submarines but my opinions listed above still stand for the most point. In my continuation of test I often found myself having fun but still coming back to the same conclusions listed above. Feedback: Overall while I still continue testing, I just wanted to highlight that the changes made so far have been awesome and while some areas could use tweaking, the iteration we have now has been fun. The somewhat improved UI is nice. The guiding path for torps is nice. The marker for your CV when using planes is a good touch. I look forward to seeing where this goes in the future. The art department has also knocked it out of the park with the submarine models and underwater environment. To Be Continued...

These are my findings so far: 1. Description CV aircraft cannot see when a submarine is below attack depth. Example: RN Rocket, Dive, and Torpedo planes cannot see when a submarine is below 10m and cannot properly determine where and when to attack a enemy submarine. 2. How to reproduce Step 1: Use and CV Step 2: Attempt to attack a enemy Submarine Step 3: Realize there is no UI indicator or any indicator to let the player realize the submarine is invulnerable. 3. Result What's the result of the issue. Result: The submarine continues on without taking damage or even being deterred. 1. Description Submarine Ping shoots higher than where aiming when under water. Example: Shooting a enemy ship with the cross hair aligned underwater causes a miss on the target. 2. How to reproduce Step 1: Target a enemy ship Step 2: Lead target accordingly Step 3: Shoot Ping Step 4: Watch ping go high/over the enemy ship model Step 5: Re-adjust/lower aim and shoot ping again Step 6: Watch target get ping lock on 3. Result Result: Player misses vital ping resulting in missed opportunity and possible location given to the enemy in the vicinity (if any) 1. Description Submarine torpedoes and hull have collision issues with enemy submarines. Example: Team Submarine (Yourself) shoots torpedoes at enemy submarine and the torpedoes go through the hull of the enemy submarine at point blank range. Attempting a submarine v submarine ram results in the two ships bouncing against each other. 2. How to reproduce Step 1: Ping enemy submarine Step 2: Get within 1km of enemy submarine Step 3: Fire Torpedoes Step 4: Watch torpedoes sail through the enemy submarine hull Step 5: Ram enemy submarine Step 6: Watch both submarines bounce off each other slightly Step 7: Keep on sailing 3. Result Result: Submarine takes no damage 1. Description Surface ship Depth Charge planes have no minimap circle to enable Example: Trying to enable the max distance able to use the depth charge planes on the minimap is not possible for surface ships. 2. How to reproduce Step 1: Open minimap toggles Step 2: Look for Depth charge plane max range circle option Step 3: See no option 3. Result Result: Surface ships cannot always tell when in proper range of a enemy submarine to use depth charge planes.

SS Gameplay Pros: • All the submarines felt unique yet balanced in terms of strengths and weaknesses, nation wise • The manual control of depth felt nice and the handling was also nice • The feeling of sneaking around was unique and exciting • The speed was good all around and overall felt balanced in terms of faster or slower based on depth level Cons: • Most games felt too fast or too slow, but I feel that was more based on how I played subs match to match • Likewise, I felt subs either did an amazing amount of damage or barely any • The U-69 ability felt a little overpowered being able to spot ships when itself couldn’t be spotted or couldn’t be damaged • The damage taken from depth charges felt like a little too much even with the maximum consumable depth being used, but I also attribute that to inconsistent gameplay and testing on my part o This also left me often barely alive, alive with no way to recover from flood/fire, or dead since it was depth charge salvo after salvo • Being able to bob from 5.9 to 6.0 meters and avoid damage felt absolutely overpowered. After a while most matches, I barely ended up going lower than 7.0 meters unless there was a enemy sub to attack • The ping system while fine, is also limiting. Often I found myself leading a ping on a target I couldn’t see at distance underwater, which was frustrating to an extent. • I also found myself wondering why there isn’t a box around the ping target so I can determine when a ping is successful. Often I found myself getting target pings on targets where the ping looks like it should have missed. • I wish the deck gun was active so AA could shoot planes (even if it wouldn’t be super useful) and one verse one sub battles could end quicker with a surface shootout • Please also allow single launch torpedoes option, firing both often felt unnecessary for me. I would have enjoyed single firing four torpedoes when taking longer ranged shots and adjusting based on enemy reaction. Suggestive Improvements: • Add another torpedo type that’s faster but does super low damage, can’t citadel, and reloads faster o This would help subs to cause more steady damage instead of super high or super low damage • Add a surface depth level, periscope depth level, and third (underwater?) depth level where the first two are fixed levels and the third allows the manual depth control like we have now o This would help combat that 5.9 – 6.0 meter depth abuse and give surface ships more time to shoot you as you go underwater from level to level. I’m also not really sold on this idea myself but can’t think of anything better that’s a nice middle ground for freedom with restrictions • Please let us use the deck gun for AA and manual control when facing other subs. If anything, make it a secondary if you have too. Sub verse Sub battle when it’s just the two left is painfully slow • I’m not sure about this one either but perhaps change the German nation to have a different ability? Or at least make it so hydro can’t spot surface ships underwater for your team, just you? • Add a box around the ping circle so we can better identify how close a ping has to be to the circle to be successful • Single launch torpedo option • Overall, minor tweaking could be done to subs and I know this list looks really negative but I truly enjoyed subs and look forward to them in the future again, if they add them ASW Gameplay Pros: • Felt rewarding dropping depth charges and getting kills • I enjoyed the chasing minigame but realistically in a live match with all players, it’s hard to tell how it would play out. Especially at high tiers Cons: • Being able to sit overtop a sub and continuously drop depth charges seems overpowered and unfair for the sub. Again, it’s also hard to tell how it would play out in a live match with all players and at high tiers • Subs being able to bounce between 5.9-6.0 meters for invulnerability. • Not being able to see the subs depth without targeting them. I would like the depth to be displayed somewhere by their name or health when spotted. It’s frustrating when I have to break a target lead just to see of the sub can be damaged or not • Not all ship types can counter. I know this one is already being worked but still, it is frustrating playing as a BB last alive and only being able to sit on top of the sub at most. This also goes for the other ship types but not to the same extent. Suggestive Improvements: • Again, I know this one is already being worked on but Heavy Cruisers and Battleships should get one set of depth charges along with a depth charge plane consumable. Aircraft Carriers should get a depth charge plane unit. • Add sub depth indicator to name or health so we can see without having to lock onto the target • Refer to above for 5.9-6.0 depth abuse UI for SS Game mode & Visuals Pros: • Enjoyed visually to an extent. The scanning of the sea floor was cool. • Controls and consumable icons were clear enough • Depth charges above and below water were visually appealing Cons: • Honestly, I’m not sure what really could be done but I wish underwater was more visually appealing. o Perhaps less cloudy (more visual range with more clear water) o More sea floor visuals when at max depth level or when using max depth consumable (coral reefs, sea weed, trenches, something) • The ship outlines and visuals could be improved underwater. It wasn’t terrible but it wasn’t exactly exciting. I couldn’t always see the enemy ship and the ship outline well. Plus it was hard to tell when a ship was going at you or going away when all you see is the hull moving around underwater at a distance. • Visually there’s only a small puff with light when torpedoes hit. It just doesn’t visually excite me. o More clear water near surface level with darker vision and screen the lower you go (to simulate light penetration) would be cool o Perhaps a shockwave for your screen when a torpedo hits or citadel, something to visually stimulate along with the light and puff from a torpedo hit o Even a nice audio “boom” would be cool • Please, please add some static lead indicator or something for the submarines periscope. It’s annoyingly hard to judge ships speed and lead pings with just a crosshair. Combined with less than pleasing underwater visuals, it’s just leads me to frustration when I’m either leading too far or not enough. Suggestive Improvements: • I honestly don’t know the limitations of the game engine so I would just say refer to my bullet points and sub bullet points above Audio Pros: • Submarine horn/alarm thing was cool • Depth charge sound was also cool when underwater and above water • Passive sonar noise was cool Cons: • Not really sure. Suggestive Improvements: • Maybe add some fun ambient noises underwater like whale calls Overall Thoughts I know this wasn’t a category but I’d still like to repeat that despite the long list of what appears to be mainly negative feedback, I really did enjoy subs, a lot. While there could definitely be improvements made in all areas, I feel that if subs were to launch today I would still be pleased to an extent. Others may disagree and that’s cool but I still think subs will make a fun addition to the game one way or another, if they decide to add them.

Not gonna lie friend, I didnt read most of this. I'll probably read most of this tomorrow but I think you're jumping the gun a little early by making them easier to kill before we even get to test them. Also just to address one point I did skim. I feel like the reason to surface will be to get in place and then submerge. I'd like to image that surface full speed will be 30 knots while underwater full speed will be like 10 knots.

Yup. At 30 meters its vision is restricted to 1km I think. Greater than 30 meters and it wont see anything at all. I dont think subs will do amazing damage like everyone thinks they will but that's just my opinion. I think they'll be easy to counter. Plus in a unofficial interview they did, one article wrote that guided torpedoes will do less damage than unguided torpedoes. Dont k ow what that means for citadels though. I feel like torp will be like the new dds and only do like 10k damage

I dont normally post on the forum but I suggest taking the time to read the article. It literally tells you what the best way to counter subs are. For those worrying about being a BB or any ship, subs can be shot with HE by any ship class as long as they are 6 meters or higher. When a sub uses its ping, its detection increases just like shooting a gun on a regular ship. Also when a sub is below 6 meters. Its vision is restricted to 1km I believe and if it goes any deeper, it loses vision completely even if your team is spotting a enemy. Just relax and take the time to read all the changes. It answers 90% of these concerns