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Battleship_60

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About Battleship_60

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  1. The sigma is already 2.0 and the dispersion is already better at 23.4km though. You want her to have Yamato legendary dispersion and 2.1 or 2.25 sigma with 25km range?
  2. Yet GK and H-42 would have a different playstyle? GK and H-42 are only similar in appearance? GK does represent a Majority of the H class but GK being that shouldn't ruin the point of H-42 as I have her here. I made H-42 as different from GK so I would avoid the issue that the two would clash against eachother in a hypothetical playstyle. This is why H-42 has weaker armor and overall less survivability but give her the 48cm guns and the weaker AA with a stronger secondary battery. I wanted the two to have their own identity.
  3. GK is based on the H class, not just H-42. Her armor is of H-44, her guns are of H-39/H-41, and her size is of H-42
  4. You know I never thought I would see the day where this proposal now has actual potential. Although I don't know how to feel about Yashima coming.
  5. The German fast battleship Kronprinz Of the Deutsche Kriegmarine’s Plan Z H Class Design Study ‘H-42’ Introduction Hello there, I am Battleship_60. This is my first ever real ship proposal so bear with me here. Okay, I am redoing this one as I felt the older brief proposal was unsatisfactory and left a lot of details out especially for a split tier 10 Battleship proposal. Now you may be thinking, why an H class BB and one that offers the 48cm guns? I made this to see what a unique flavor for the Germans could have been instead of GK. "Wouldn't she just power creep Yamato and GK?" no, as a matter of fact GK is a lot more tanky than H-42 with Yamato having nine guns while still being the most accurate BB at the moment. She offers 32mm overmatch and better agility at the price of armor, reload, AA, and HP while still being the same size of GK. Let's get started with it then! Brief Summary Kronprinz (Design H-42) is a German battleship that sacrifices the survivability of her counterpart Großer Kurfürst in exchange for improved main battery performance. To this end, she possesses 48cm L/50 guns: some of the most powerful weapons among those considered for the H class, outperforming most artillery in raw penetration characteristics and shell damage- though notably not Georgia or Ohio. She is accurate, with superior angles of fire to Großer Kurfürst to the detriment of all of her other ‘German’ traits. Summary Pros Cons Excellent artillery with 2.0 sigma. Lower hitpool than her Tier X counterpart. Superior agility to Großer Kurfürst. Weaker AA defenses. 6xII 15-cm secondary mountings, contrasting the 4xII found on Großer Kurfürst. A generally weaker armour scheme, especially in regards to the belt. Triple armour deck scheme, giving a combined thickness of 33cm. Eight-gun battleship, reducing hit probability. History of the Design H-42 On November 8, 1942, the appointment of Albert Speer as Reich Minister for Armaments and Supplies, as well as the transfer of some designers and engineers engaged in designing battleships to other urgent work, including the creation of new submarines, weakened the influence of the OKM Shipbuilding Division. As an intermediate link between the Speer and the fleet, the Commission on New Ship Projects was set up, headed by Admiral Karl Topp. His group had the task of coordinating the demands of the fleet with the material and production capabilities of the Reich, which Speer was now in charge of. It was this group that developed the latest German projects of the battleships H-42, H-43 and H-44. The shipbuilding department did not participate in these projects, its work having ended in August 1942 on the ‘H-41’ project. Soon after this, Hitler demanded that the naval command consider the possibility of building very large battleships. Without restrictions on the caliber of the guns and the displacement, it was possible to fulfill the following requirements: - Speed of about 30 knots; - Horizontal protection, sufficient against shells and bombs; - Bottom protection, sufficient against mines, especially under machinery and boilers; - Main caliber guns in the right balance with other characteristics of the project. The commission on projects of new ships in 1942-44 prepared several projects of battleships in the light of combat experience. Their characteristics were not discussed either with Admiral Raeder, nor with his successor, Admiral Karl Dönitz, or with those officers who were responsible for determining the combat characteristics of the projected ships. These people were solving more pressing problems, and they did not have time for an ephemeral program of building battleships, which required at least five years to be completed. The construction of all surface ships was stopped or postponed in favor of the construction of submarines. In these projects, the trend of continuous growth in size and displacement due to increased caliber, armor protection and expansion of the underwater protection system was striking. The increase in the caliber of the main guns and the increase in airborne danger forced the use of three armored decks (60 + 140 + 130 mm) instead of two on the ‘H-41’ (200 mm). It was assumed (and then confirmed by experiments) that the optimal thickness of hardened armor is 380-mm, and a large thickness (according to the principle of ‘equal protection,’ then adopted when designing battleships, that the thickness of its armor should protect against the same tools as it uses) not desirable because of the low probability of hitting the board at a long distance (and the distance of the battle increases with the increasing caliber of guns). One of the features of this project was that the lower armour belt extended further below the waterline than those of preceding battleships: this was done to protect against diving shells (undershoots), which inflicted significant damage on Bismarck during his battle with Hood and Prince of Wales in the Denmark Strait. German designers were aware of these damages due to reports from Bismarck, received after this battle. The maximum thickness of the horizontal armor (decks 140 and 130 mm) passed between the anti-torpedo bulkheads, and from them to the side plating the horizontal protection consisted of a 60-mm upper deck and a 150-mm bevel of the lower armored decks. By the end of 1944, the German designers had already realized that no protection could save the ship from the multi-ton ‘Tallboy’ earthquake bombs, which the British used to sink Tirpitz inside her fjord refuge. The most notable feature of these ships was their anti-torpedo defense system. The Germans correctly considered the torpedo the biggest danger for the battleships. Even more, they believed in the need for a reliable system of protection against them, receiving drawings of French battleships such as Richelieu. Powerful protection required a large hull (especially in beam), which raised the displacement of the ship. The H-42 project was notable for its multi-subsea double-bottom underwater protection and armored deck bevels, to which the upper edges of the anti-torpedo bulkheads were attached. Liquid fuel was placed in three separate tanks stretched vertically. Stats of H-42 Survivability HP: 94.5k Torpedo Belt: 38% Armor Protection Bow and Stern: 32mm with a fore end armor belt of 60mm plating near the waterline, a fore end belt of 150mm follows this 50mm plating. Deck: 32mm fore/aft end deck, midship deck being 60mm(Starting at Turret 2, extending under the superstructure, then ending at Turret 3. There are two additional decks under the 60mm weather deck, the first armored deck is 140mm with a 130mm citadel deck under Belt: 300mm at the same angle as GK with a 145mm upper belt. Citadel Arranged in a turtleback. A 150mm plating inclined at a 20 degree angle protects the citadel wall that is 45mm. This should allow for a strong citadel protection at medium to close range; at long range however, she would be able to be citadeled due to her 300mm belt or 145mm belt and the shell falling to the 150mm then hitting the 45mm citadel. Gunhouse protection Frontal plating: 450mm Side Plating : 260mm Rearplate: 360mm Upper Plating: 250mm Roof Plating: 200mm Barbette: 450mm HP for Turrets: 30,000 Artillery Large-calibre artillery is the battleship’s reason for being, and in this regard Kronprinz is no exception: she boasts eight accurate and powerful 48cm guns, opposing Großer Kurfürst’s twelve 406-mm or 42-cm rifles and matching up well against the 46cm artillery of the Yamato, as well as nearly equaling the 45.7-cm pieces of the Ohio. She trades away much of her performance in other areas to ensure that these guns function, and they don’t disappoint in that regard. Main Armament Characteristics Designation 48cm L/50 SK C/41 Dispersion Type German/Italian/French Sigma 2.0 Caliber 50 (24.128 m) Rate of Fire 1.875 RPM Reload Time 32 s Rotation Speed 4 deg/s 180 Degree Turn Time 45 seconds Firing Range 23.4 km Max. Dispersion 293 m HE Shell Spgr. L/4,6 Kz. (m.Hb) Maximum HE damage 6,900 Fire Chance 43% Initial HE Shell Velocity 800 m/s HE Shell Weight 1,700 kg HE Penetration 120 mm AP Shell 48cm Psgr. L/4,6 (m.Hb) Maximum AP Damage 16,000 Initial AP Shell Velocity 800 m/s AP Penetration Damage 5,280 AP Overpenetration Damage 1,600 AP overmatch 33.56 mm AP Shell Weight 1,700 kg Characteristics of the 48cm Psgr. L/4,6 (m.Hb) Range AP Penetration Shell Flight Time 5,000 m 900 mm 2.1 s 10,000 m 836 mm 5 s 15,000 m 776 mm 8 s 20,000 m 708 mm 11.22 s 23,400 m 663 mm 13.86 s Secondary Armament 6x2 15cm L/55 SK C/28 8x2 10.5cm L/65 SK C/33 Reload: 7.5 s 3.3 s Range: 7.7 km 7.7 km HE Damage: 1,700 1,200 HE Penetration: 37 mm 17.5 mm Initial Velocity: 875 m/s 900 m/s Fire Chance: 8.0% 5.0% Anti-Aircraft Armament Long Range AA Medium Range AA Short Range AA 8x2 10.5cm L/65 SK C/33 12x2 37mm L/83 SK C/30 10x4 20mm Flakvierling 38 Range: 4.5–3.5 km 3.5–2 km 2–0.1 km 5 flak bursts 9 bursts None Hit Probability: 75.0% 75.0% 70.0% Flak DPS: 1,260 1,060 0 Continuous DPS: 179 568 325 AA Reinforcement 25% 12s Shift Time Kronprinz possesses a relatively average maneuverability for her type and tier, which is still better than her half-sister Großer Kurfürst. Maneuverability Propulsion (SHP) 270,000 HP Speed 31 knots Turning Radius (4/4 power) 1,280m Rudder Shift 16.5 seconds Speed In Turn 24.3 knots Acceleration to flank 53 seconds Consumables Damage Control Party I/II: Action Time: 15s Reload Time: 120s/80s Unlimited Charges Repair Party I/II: HP per second: 472 Action Time: 28s Reload: 120s/80s # of consumable: 3 / 4 Fighter Plane I/II Action Time: 60s # of Fighters: 4 Action Radius: 3km Reload Time: 90s/130s # of consumables: 3 / 4 Or Spotter Plane I/II: Main Battery Firing Range: +20% Action Time: 100s Reload Time: 360s/240s # of Consumables: 3 / 4 Hydroacoustic Search I/III Action Time: 120s Ship Detection Range: 6km Torpedo Detection Range: 4km Charges: 2 / 3 Reload Time: 171s/114s Citations Thanks for Phoenix_Jr, LWM, SireneRacker, Strixkitty, Kingpin61, and Shikikaze for the assistance they gave for this proposal. Sirene for the wonderful info on the Project. Phoenix_Jr for aiding in the fabrication of the 48cm guns. LWM, StrixKitty, and Kingpin61 for aid in balancing Shikikaze for the help in formatting cause I’m a scrub.
  6. The premium Tier VII heavy cruiser Somerset Of the British Royal Navy Somerset is the Vickers ‘Cruiser No.866’ conceived as a fast variant of the County-class heavy cruisers being developed concurrently. Designed according to the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty that limited construction to cruisers of 203mm calibre and 10,000-t displacement, she boasted powerful artillery and an unusual turn of speed for a British cruiser, while preserving a completely outdated method of protection. History & design One of the sketch plans for Cruiser No.866, designed by famous British naval architect George Thurston. In the wake of the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty that limited cruisers to 10,000-t displacement and 8in / 203mm artillery, British architect Sir George Thurston with the Vickers shipbuilding firm prepared a series of ‘Treaty cruiser’ designs for potential sale, either to the British government or for overseas export. Selections of these designs were published along with a chapter on cruiser design in Brassey’s 1925 edition - the ‘B’-model cruiser featured there, Design No.867, was based on the preceding No.866 design and was a full knot faster at the further expense of the already-minimal armour protection scheme. We are interested in the latter design, Cruiser No.866. General characteristics & layout Somerset’s design is based largely off the contemporary County-class ‘treaty cruisers’ entering service within the Royal Navy at the time. Unlike most cruisers at this tier, she doesn’t come equipped with a full modernization - she merely has an increase in the light AA battery (from two RC MGs) to account for the increase in tier. Hitpool & Dimensions The following is an estimate of the hitpool (HP) of the ship, assuming a displacement of 10,500 tons standard. Naturally, most British cruisers undershot their trial displacements (sometimes on the order of more than 500 tons), but the calculated displacement has been used as Somerset was not built. Hitpool Estimate Displacement 10,500 tons Stock Hitpool 29,400 Hitpool (w/ Survivability Expert) 31,850 Theoretical Maximum (including Repair Party) 47,194 Alternative estimate of HP using calculated full load values: Alternative Hitpool Estimate Displacement 12,500 tons Stock Hitpool 33,100 Hitpool (w/ Survivability Expert) 35,550 Theoretical Maximum (including Repair Party) 50,894 Length BP — 590 ft / 179.8 m Beam (over bulges) — 65 ft / 19.8 m Depth (to f’cle) — 40 ft 10in / 12.2 m Mean trial draught — 17 ft / 5.18 m Armament Heavy artillery 4x2 203mm/50 BL Mk.VIII Somerset’s artillery is simultaneously unusual and typical for a ship of her type. In terms of shell characteristics, ballistics, and loading time she’s fairly similar to her other British heavy cruiser counterparts (at the time of writing, limited to Exeter). However, her dispersion patterns mirror those found aboard Japanese 20cm-gun cruisers—she has a destroyer’s dispersion ellipsis, making her salvoes very punishing when they connect while also making a good predictive skill with aiming necessary in order to take advantage of these features. Due to the good spacing of these mounts, they have excellent arcs of fire both fore and aft. Characteristics of the 203mm/50 BL Mk.VIII Designation 203mm/50 BL Mk.VIII Länge in Kalibre 50 (10.310 m) Dispersion Type Japanese CA / Destroyer Sigma 2.0 Rate of Fire 6 rpm Reload Time 10 s Rotation Speed 8º/s Rotation Speed (w/ Expert Marksman) 8.7º/s 180-degree turn time 22.5 s Firing Range 16.5 km Max. Dispersion 131 m HE Shell 203mm HE 256 lb Maximum HE Shell Damage 2,850 Chance of Fire Caused On Target 15% Initial HE Shell Velocity 855 m/s HE Shell Weight 116.12 kg AP Shell 203mm AP 256 lb Maximum AP Shell Damage 4,550 Initial AP Shell Velocity 855 m/s AP Shell Weight 116.12 kg Secondary battery 6x1 120mm/40 QF Mk.VIII Somerset’s as-designed heavy AA armament consisted of six 4.7in/40 QF pieces mounted port and starboard: the very same artillery that would later equip the Nelson-class Treaty battleships as their own dual-purpose battery. It’s nothing to write home about, but at least it’s something. Characteristics of the 120mm/40 QF Mk.VIII Rate of Fire 12 rpm Reload Time 5 s Firing Range 5 km HE Shell 120mm HE MkVA Maximum HE Shell Damage 1,700 Chance of Fire Caused On Target 8% Initial HE Shell Velocity 749 m/s Torpedoes 4x3 62.2cm Mk.I Somerset carries a slightly different torpedo than other British cruisers: her torpedo outfit called for a new 60- or 61-cm torpedo, but as neither were developed due to the design never receiving consideration from a government I have elected to equip it with an existing torpedo of similar calibre: the 62.2cm (24.5in) Mk.I torpedo, which at that time was only used aboard the Nelson-class warships and would remain that way due to the Royal Navy’s standardization on the 53.3cm/21in torpedo. As the torpedoes are on the upper deck, they have good arcs of fire, but are very vulnerable to being knocked out by HE shells. Characteristics of Somerset’s torpedo tubes Rate of fire 0.5 shots/min Reload time 120 s Rotation speed 25º/s 180 degree turn time 7.2 s Torpedo 62.2cm Mk.I Maximum damage 15,600 (15,642 unrounded) Torpedo speed 65 kts Torpedo range 9.99 km Torpedo detection radius 1.4 km Antiaircraft artillery 6x1 120mm/40 QF Mk.VIII 2x8 40-mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk.VIII 2x4 12.7mm Mk.III Somerset’s AA battery is uninspiring. By and large, it’s completely inadequate for her tier, being more suitable for T5 than it is for T7. Without Defensive AA Fire to even boost the damage, it’s largely forgettable- carriers should be avoided when possible. If it’s not possible, then using her high speed and quick maneuverability to evade as much fire as you can is the only possibility. Characteristics of Somerset’s AA artillery Priority AA Sector Reinforcement 150% Instantaneous Damage 3.5% of squadron HP Sector Reinforcement & Prep Time 10 s Long-range AA guns Number of explosions in a salvo 1 DPS Within Explosion Radius 1260 Continuous Damage Inside Action Zone 46 Hit Probability 75.0% Action Zone 0.1–5.2 km Medium-range AA guns Continuous Damage Inside Action Zone 96 Hit Probability 90.0% Action Zone 0.1–2.5 km Short-range AA guns Continuous Damage Inside Action Zone 12 Hit Probability 85.0% Action Zone 0.1–1.5 km Protection Somerset’s protection is… well, bluntly, Somerset doesn’t have real protection. Cruiser No.866 dispensed with the traditional armour belt in favour of an armour deck over the machinery coupled with magazine armour ‘boxes’ to provide the best protection. This type of scheme hearkens back to the 1880s, when the ‘protected cruiser’ concept was all the rage: these by-now obsolete ships also were armoured with only a protective deck as opposed to both vertical and horizontal armour. While cruiser-calibre AP shells and smaller will have difficulty at short range against Somerset’s protection (large-calibre ones will still sail straight through), her ‘turtleback’ protection works against her from long range, making her increasingly vulnerable to attack the further away she is from her opponents. That being said, her protection also leaves her incredibly vulnerable against high explosive (HE) shells; with no external armour belt for them to shatter against, any and all hits will arm. Her turrets have the same lack of protection found aboard most British period cruisers, with 25mm splinter and blast plating being the maximum thickness. Her main protection, her armour deck, consisted of a flat NVNC (New Vickers Non-Cemented) deck 38mm thick across her machinery spaces, with slopes 38mm thick reaching down to the deep waterline. Those slopes reduced to 25mm over the magazines, with a 25mm carapace over the steering gear. The magazine ‘boxes’ had 50mm sides and a 76mm roof: a shell passing through the deck would first have to contend with the 25mm slope, then the 50mm magazine box wall. Over the 4.7in/120mm gun magazines, the deck was 50mm thick with 25mm sides. In addition to this armour, Cruiser No.866 also possessed a shallow 5ft/1.5m SPS (side protection system), consisting of a dry bulge outboard the machinery spaces in an attempt to limit or at least slow flooding. Torpedo Damage Reduction — 12% Location Thickness (mm) Location Thickness (mm) Extremities 16 Gunhouse 25 Torpedo protection 16 Barbettes 25 Superstructure 13 20cm magazine walls 50 Armour Belt 16 20cm magazine roofs 76 Deck Slopes 38 Conning tower walls N/A Armour Deck 38 Conning tower roof N/A Steering Gear 25 Citadel athwartships 50 Speed & maneuverability Horsepower - 120,000 shp (forced draught figure) Max. Speed — 34.5 kts Max. Speed (w/ SM flag) — 36.2 kts Max. Speed (w/ EB) — 41.4 kts Max. Speed (w/ SM flag & EB) — 43.4 kts Turning radius — 750 m Rudder shift time — 7.5 s ‘Speed is armour’, and speed is the only protection Somerset has against opponents of her size. With her British handling characteristics (fast speed in a turn and quick acceleration), she can quickly change courses and otherwise maneuver to avoid enemy fire. Add to that her improved French Engine Boost consumable, and she becomes the fastest cruiser around. Detection Somerset’s detection radii aren’t anything to write home about - they’re not the best for Tier VII cruisers, but not the worst either. She won’t be sneaking up on any Myōkō that decides to come sniffing, but she can at least stay out of the way of most of the battleships she might expect to face. Somerset’s detection radii Surface Detection Radius (Normal) 13.5 km Surface Detection Radius (Minimum) 12.1 km Aerial Detection Radius (Normal) 6.1 km Aerial Detection Radius (Minimum) 5.49 (5.5) km Assured Detection Radius 2 km Detection Radius (Smoke Firing - Normal) 7.5 km Detection Radius (Smoke Firing - Minimum) 6.75 km Consumables Slot 1 — Damage Control Party Slot 3 — Engine Boost (+20%) (2 charges) Slot 4 — Repair Party (+137 hp/s for 28 s) (2 charges) Somerset comes with a set of consumables to complement her “run’n’gun” playstyle - her French Engine Boost and British Repair Party consumables help her survive even without the ability to resist high explosive shellfire. Good use of these consumables is the only measure against dying suddenly in a large explosion, since your magazines are unprotected against anything larger than light cruiser fire. Summation Somerset comes bearing two quirks: her Japanese accuracy and her French speed, at the expense of real armour protection. Overall Pros & Cons of Somerset Japanese CA dispersion. – Cannot take hits. French light cruiser Engine Boost consumable – Did we mention the nonexistent AA? Powerful theoretical maximum HP. – Eats HE shells faster than a starving man at a buffet. Fair range on the main battery. – Her armour is somehow even more worthless at range. Good maneuverability. – Bad side of average detectability. Citations & Footnotes This could not have come together without the help of Phoenix_jz, Big_Spud, and Trainspite - with a not-inconsiderable dose of Warship 2019 as well as Alan Raven and John Robert’s British Cruisers of World War II. This post was originally made by the user Shikikaze who asked me to post this on the forums to see what other people thought of it.
  7. Battleship_60

    Georgia or Jean Bart?

    And just as I say that, DoY gets a nerf kinda? sigh
  8. Battleship_60

    Georgia or Jean Bart?

    A nerf won't happen as Georgia and JB can and has been brought with money.
  9. Battleship_60

    Why does Colbert have 127mm guns?

    Umm, because Colbert is a real ship that had the 127mm/54? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cruiser_Colbert_(C611)
  10. Fast battleship projects.. In WWII and the 30s? I haven't heard Germany having any.. I would think Bismarck class, Scharnhorst class, and even H class would be "fast" battleships.
  11. Technically... H-42 should be lighter then GK and if I recall she was to have a 32 knot speed.. I am currently revamping H42 as this one was kinda a testing and to see how weak a ship even with 48cm guns would be. Also are there any battlecruisers for T10? For Germany that is
  12. Battleship_60

    Who's that Poké-boat?

    My thoughts are that the German Cruiser is the O-Class and the Japanese DD is Super Shima.
  13. It's not really meant to be OP.. And it kinda shows why WG didn't go with one of the true H designs but since it's looking to be quite weak.. I may revise it as the only reason it's even a T10 is the guns.
  14. H-42 proposal is done after... two weeks? It was fun doing it all.

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