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Destroyer_Zekakaze

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About Destroyer_Zekakaze

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  1. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    The Current State of DD vs. CV

    Is that so? Tell me then, what would you call the primary role of a DD then?
  2. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    The Current State of DD vs. CV

    I thought of that as well, but the problem with that is that the game doesn’t have any way of recognizing what target the reticule is over, and is a static target that doesn’t change because it is completely manually aimed, and because of that the game cant increase the amount of spread just because a DD is the target; the game engine has no way of recognizing that.
  3. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    The Current State of DD vs. CV

    Yes, another one of these threads about CVs Its no secret that DD life has been very difficult with the prevalence of CVs flooding the queue. On average at least 3 of every 5 games will have a CV in it. Shouldn't be too big an issue right? For a CA or a BB, mostly not. For a DD however, CV presence makes life absolutely miserable against any CV that's even slightly competent. The trouble with playing a DD in a CV game at Tier X is not so much the damage output that a CV can do to a destroyer, but more lies with the fact that the presence of a carrier forces you, as a destroyer, to play a certain way, because playing any other way will be punished very very heavily if you catch the attention of a carrier. The damage that they can do, its not fun, sure, but with the possible exception of Midway, and to a lesser extent Lexington HE Dive Bombers, the damage is not the issue here. Think of the current DD vs CV situation as playing a BB back in the days when OWSF was still a thing. The problem with stealth firing is that it is a very frustrating mechanic to play against, because the only real counter-play option as that BB is just to hope that the DD's aim sucks. The same holds true for CVs in the current state of the game when it comes to destroyers. Outside of shooting the planes down, which lets face it, most DDs don't have the greatest AA in the world, and even the ones that do like Gearing or Grozovoi need a full AA spec to defend themselves reliably. Because of this, DDs are easy prey for a CV, and with that fact, a DD is forced to stay very close to their team for the first half of the game, which severely hinders the role of a destroyer at all, and that is the biggest problem with the current state of DD vs CV. CVs effectively act as an "on/off" switch for the entire point of a destroyer. A DD's primary job is capture point and maintaining vision control for their team. Because of this, DD operations are generally very independent and is often why the impact of bad DD players vs good ones on the outcome of a game is so prevalent, but that's a topic for another day. Back to the matter at hand; DD operations are generally very independent themselves but have a vital impact on the outcome of a game. But this is the biggest problem, any good CV player can completely shut any of that down and cost a DD at least half their HP for even trying. Yes, I can hear you already clacking away at your keyboards "Turn your AA off until you're about to get spotted and you'll be harder for the CV to find". Yes, that is true, but also consider the number of other things that can spot a destroyer. Radar and other DDs are the two most significant and common spotting threats to a DD. Once a DD has been spotted in an area, whether they fall undetected or not, a determined CV will hunt you down without too much issue. The ultimate result is forcing DD players to hang back towards the rest of their team, because they really just don't have the AA power to reliably defend themselves unless they're an AA spec Gearing or Groz, but even then if the enemy CV is good they will still get at least 1 strike off on you, with damage ranging from only 1 or 2k HP to potentially half your HP pool depending on the nation and type of planes involved. This remains true even with friendly AA support. Its a no-win situation, your only hope as a DD when being focused by a CV is praying that the enemy CV's aim sucks. Other than that you're pretty much SOL unless you can chew through the squadron via AA which is never the most reliable tactic. As a DD, your role and ability to perform your duties as a DD is effectively turned off by the presence of a CV. All you can do is really just hope to be ignored, which by any good CV the chances of that are slim to none the second you get spotted. Now, I am aware that the CV round start delay is in the works, but while it will definitely give a bit of breathing room at the start of the game, it will ultimately fail to solve the problem. While there is a significant difference between being spotted at 18:00 against being spotted at 19:15, the ultimate result is still the same. As a DD, you're still being forced to play that same certain way, hanging back huddling near friendly AA if you wish to survive. And as the match progresses, however, even this becomes increasingly unreliable as the attrition of battle sets in; AA mounts are destroyed on friendly battleships and cruisers, and usually the DD as well. This leaves an even bigger gap in AA defenses for CV players to exploit and increases both your own and your team's overall vulnerability to air attack. The fact herein is really that even huddling with your team won't always save you, which defeats the purpose of huddling with your team to begin with. Just like a DD in the RTS CV version, a CV's impact on the match grows as the match progresses, just like a destroyer's would. Really, the ultimate problem is the fact that CVs, as a DD player, will effectively force you to play a certain way, because playing any other way will cost you a significant chunk of HP with nonexistent counter-play options outside of smoke, which will not always be available. With how easily a CV can adjust their attack runs on the fly, it would take more skill to miss the target than it would to hit. CVs will severely punish, to great effect, what would otherwise be good play and positioning from a DD. A CV literally turns the role of a DD on a team into the start of a bad joke, and punishes DDs for playing DDs, basically. DDs have 0 freedom unless you're a full AA Groz or Gearing, but even both of those are a coin toss whether or not it will really help to any significant effect, especially later in the game (again, attrition of battle; AA mounts being knocked out from enemy fire and past air attacks). While DDs are by no stretch of the imagination unplayable, life can be a whole lot more challenging than it needs to be. Life as a DD was already hard enough, but now some games can be that much more incredibly frustrating to play in if the CV decides to focus on you, which a lot of CV players will target DDs first. A fair amount dont, but a fair amount do. Which is just terribly unfun to play against. Of course, there is an old saying that does "Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining." That's not what I'm here to do. I have 3 suggestions for possible solutions to help give DD players a little more breathing room in CV matches. These are all, as far as I am aware or have seen, never been suggested before, but if they have been suggested elsewhere and refuted then well, refute them again I guess. (Also if you wouldn't mind, also link the thread where the idea was proposed first, thanks) 1.) Rework the way plane attacks operate. This is a very extreme option, and will be, if even possible at all, very very difficult to pull off. This effects mostly rocket planes and dive bombers (especially USN). The current iteration of CVs, it is very easy for CVs at adjust their attack runs on the fly, which makes dodging and any form of counterplay extremely difficult. With the old RTS system of carries, bombers had a line called the Line of No Return, which means that the second that line is crossed, the bombers are committed to the drop and cannot be readjusted. I propose some sort of similar system, keeping the elements of manually controlling a large, single squadron but still retaining some element of "commitment" from the old RTS system. Torpedo bombers are fine as is attack-wise, but I propose a system of dive and rocket attacks to have an element of commitment to a direction, being unable, or very slot to, turn in either direction once the attack run initiates, increasing the value of good plane placement to maximize hits across the bow and stern of a ship. Again, this is a very, very extreme option and probably will never happen. 2.) Rework DD air detection. A simple fix, simply decrease the air detection of DDs further, thus increasing their potential to both hide from, and defend While the first buff did significantly help, unless the DD is spotted by other means, I believe that this change, by decreasing the air detection range, will help throw off accurate attacks against a DD without making attacking them impossible unless the DD is spotted by other means. If this makes any sense, think of it this way: A DD is spotted by a CV at a distance that the attack run will pretty much have to be launched almost the second the squadron spots the destroyer for the most accurate attack, rewarding good plane placement to catch the DD nose or stern to attack for maximum hits as well as good reflexes. If the attack is not launched almost immediately, the resulting attack will be far less accurate due to there being a much narrower gap between the attack location and DD position. Again, this is probably an extreme option. 3.) My last, very simple solution is to simply beef up destroyer AA capabilities to improve their defense against carriers, especially those that will drop fighters over a destroyer to keep them spotted, and getting them focus fired heavily. While proposal 2 would help to alleviate this, the simplest solution I can think of that would help improve the amount of freedom and defense a DD has in a CV game would simply just beef up their AA defense not quite to cruiser or even Groz/Gearing levels, but enough to actually being able to reliably shoot down planes more consistently, although the weakness with this, again, is the attrition of battle. This is a very simple suggestion that ultimately will probably fail to fully fix the problem, but will at least help. Another possible variation of this would also just be decrease damage on CVs overall, which would help lower their effectiveness against DDs so the DD isnt a quarter at least of their HP in the first 2-4 minutes with almost nothing that can be done about it, sure, but will also cripple their damage on other classes, which I don't think is a good idea. This is my take on the current situation of CV vs DD interactions. Again, all of this is just my opinion, and my suggested solutions are definitely far from perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like to know everyone else's opinions on the matter, and other possible solutions that you all may think would work better. Discuss~
  4. Bad teams have always been a thing in Randoms. The killer for most players right now in Randoms is CVs which are just incredibly frustrating to play against in most games. The thing about CVs, especially while in a destroyer, is the fact that the mere presence of one actually forces you to only play a certain way because doing anything else will get you deleted with nonexistent counterplay, which is horribly unfun to have to play against in at least 3-4 out of every 5 games.
  5. I've been having a very different experience with my AA spec Groz. I do also want to ask you, do you slot Manual AA on your captain instead of CE? And if so, do you remember to keep planes on your reinforced sectors? Having a full AA Groz with DFAA active, planes in the reinforced sector that are going to go down. An effective tip is to try and kite the planes away while still keeping them on your AA sector, creating more time between the planes entering AA range, and then actually getting to strike you. Whether they get the strike off or not varies from tier and nation of the CV and the overall skill of the CV player themselves, but no matter the outcome, they are going to lose planes
  6. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Mixing it Up Monday - Your Fleet

    My most played ship right now is Grozovoi because of the CV rework and CVs being everywhere and so absurdly unfun to play against as any other DD
  7. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    HE question

    127mm / 6 = 21.2 approx. Round it down and 127mm HE has exactly 21mm of penetration, but in order to get past a 21mm armor belt, at least 22mm of pen is required
  8. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    HE question

    Gearing has a 21mm armor belt, unlike other destroyers. That armor belt is thick enough to shatter most other HE shells from other destroyers (assuming no IFHE) with the exception of DDs with 1/4 HE pen.
  9. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Frustration with CV - Please nerf DD!

    For starters, you should have realized that Grozovoi is one of the strongest AA DDs in the game alongside Gearing. Based on that clip that groz was also very likely AA mostly or completely AA spec, and to top if off you flew through a very like reinforced sector through his DFAA. Its your fault, not his
  10. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    WG should fix flooding

    Being a DD main myself, I find the flood changes to be of minimal impact. I prefer to go for the straight up alpha strike of my torpedoes to nuke targets outright rather than sit there waiting for them to flood. The longer they're flooding, the longer they'll be still in the game and that means more guns shooting at your teammates. Pretending that's not the case though, flooding is more or less equivalent to fire at this point, which means that smart players won't instantly damacon the flood, and if they do, another further flood or fire will also do substantial damage
  11. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Map border

    A lot of the time the map border is what ultimately gets people cornered and sunk.
  12. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    DD Re-Balancing (NOT Another CV Rant)

    Gearing- Has the 21mm armor belt that can shatter enemy DD HE shells, but at the same time makes her extremely vulnerable to getting blapped easily by AP shells. She's also incredibly slow and has gun arcs to shoot down satellites. She has good close range capabilities but her rather poor handling and large size coupled with that armor belt means that she's extremely vulnerable. She can perform depending on your team's strat but otherwise IMO she's in a decent spot right now. Yue Yang- The Radar on the Yue Yang is designed to better pair with a cruisers detection such as a Zao or even Hindenburg. If you position right, the second your ally gets spotted, you can instantly Radar whatever is spotting your friend. YY's Radar is also extremely effective at denying caps. Yue Yang's rearmost TT is also knocked out extremely easily, so bad that I even took off TTM3 in slot 6 in favor of MBM3, which helps remedy the gun reload a bit. All in all, I think YY i decent as it stands. Could be better, sure, but she's not nearly as bad off as people may think Hargumo- Super Akizuki with the handling of a brick and is still vulnerable to AP shells from BBs, unlike every other T10 DD that isnt called Khabarovsk. She has extremely poor speed and worse handling than even a Gearing so she's also prone to eating torps. Her literal only bright spot is those guns with her 32mm HE pen if you put IFHE on the captain. She'll handle, but only just. Shimakaze- Easily, IMO, one of the strongest DDs at T10. She has an extremely high skill floor and is not an easy ship to play, but in capable hands she can beat out any other DD of the tier, and trust me, I main Shimakaze with her F3s (8km) torps. She can handle just fine. Z-52- The ultimate "**** you, this is my cap" destroyer to play. In this CB season her capability is hindered by the selection of map pools. She won't handle as well on Tears of the Desert, for example, nearly as much as she'll shine on Sea of Fortune with the double cap layout from S1. She smoke and hydro combo can easily beat out any other DD over a cap, even a Radar Yue Yang. Shimakaze's torpedoes will be spotted well in advance torping the smoke, as will any other DD's torps. Really it takes a good Radar cruiser and focus fire to take out a well positioned, well played Z-52 Daring- Fine as is Groz- Fine as is Just a very generalized summary
  13. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Here is a Good Example of Why High Tier Play Sucks

    The thing about lower tiers is that the alpha of pretty much everything is a lot lower than higher tiers, as well as a lot less accurate. Because of the often inexperienced players that infest lower tiers, those players generally won't know how to exploit the mistakes enemies make, and its far far easier to get away with things that you won't at high tiers. I sat there gunboating a St Louis in a Wakatake at one point. To the DD vs BB comment, let me just say any DD will reck any BB if they know what they are doing. Cruisers are easy to nuke, yes, but at those kinds of tiers and the kind of poor accuracy and shotgun style dispersion that BBs suffer at those tiers, especially at longer ranges, an actively maneuvering cruiser can be a difficult target to hit. Not sitting in smoke is a given, and for any experienced player will be obvious. But the key word in that is experienced. Newer players often don't know the risks of sitting in smoke, and often also don't realize that smoke screens are torpedo magnets in either direction. At lower tiers you can easily get away with sitting in smoke firing away all fat, dumb, and happy. I've done exactly that on multiple occasions facing multiple torpedo armed vessels and not once did any of them torp the smoke screen. Moskva has very strong bow armor with her 50mm plating. But take a look at the size of her citadel. Enough said. Every tier has its risks, sure, but T10 is by far a lot more punishing and unforgiving of mistakes. Shells and torpedos have a lot more alpha and are a lot more accurate, and players often realize how to recognize mistakes and punish them a lot better. Most (not all) T10 players have at least some idea of what theyre doing. Also not entirely true. The thing about most players like that is that they're, well, not very bright to say the least. Ive seen plenty of games thrown and the winning team is the one with barely any caps. The thing about a lot of those players is that they very often don't know when to quit, going back to this whole "no cap kill all" mentality. What you call static players is called playing safe until the right time to stick their neck out. Ive had plenty of games myself in my DDs where I did nothing but spot and nothing else for half the game and still placing top for knowing the right time for me to make the biggest difference is. Like you said, its all about a balance between knowing when to play safe and when to take risks. Most players don't realize that, some do, some dont. That much is at least true. At the end of the day, this is very likely to be a case that we have to agree to disagree
  14. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Here is a Good Example of Why High Tier Play Sucks

    I highly disagree with that assessment. The biggest cause of steamrolls is that disparity of firepower at any tier. Once one team goes down 2-3 or more ships, regardless of tier, that often leads to a massive snowball effect, with the team having the firepower advantage usually winning by picking away at ships that either cant retreat and kite away or try and fight them at a disadvantage. Its one reason you see a lot of zerg rushes like the one @Hatsuzuki_DD posted earlier, except in that case instead of a zerg rush it was more the team sitting in one place playing on their phones or something. But really, the reason steamrolls happen is two reasons, or sometimes both: A.) The loss of DDs early and lack of spotting B.) Massive snowball effect due to early losses Both of those happen at any tier. I've been grinding an alt account and believe me, the games are far far worse at T5-6 than at T10. Less people have a clue what they're doing, and you get a lot of suicides (albeit this is common at any tier). The amount of idiocy infesting those tiers will blow your mind.
  15. Destroyer_Zekakaze

    Here is a Good Example of Why High Tier Play Sucks

    Not everyone finds enjoyment at T7. I myself very rarely dip below T8, and even then the "lowest" I go is T9. In divs whenever people suggest T7 my response is always "thats a bit too low tier for my liking." I play T9 and 10 more or less exclusively, as that's what I find fun. I enjoy T10, you enjoy T7. Some people may find enjoyment sealclubbing I T4. I used to. Varies from person to person
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