FitzNUrAft

Oh, 5.6km is such high detection? How many DD's have higher detection per tier? Most of them? So, the Cossack, Kamakaze iteration of DD's, Minekaze, and a smattering of others... Oh, my facts are all off. Funny, you must have picked one or two DD's. How many is 29 knots (or really, some go quite a bit faster) slow or something? How many DD's have 35k health as well? How about you get your facts straight. Typical sub apologist.

You mean, a ship with better detection than DD's on the surface, can dive, can go as fast as DD's, has a homing gimmick, can appear right in front of you or behind you to "shotgun torp" and can take 30 depth charge to hits to sink is in a fine state? Did I miss anything btw? Oh wait, this is WG. Of course they are in a fine state and just what this game needs. Can't wait for the Russian ones to appear. Those will be balanced as well.

Am I looking at this correctly? To get a skin (that literally does nothing except add a paint job) as a reward for "early access" (gambling) you have to whale your way up to tier 9 ships, then get the tier 10? So.... spend a bunch of money for a paint job? Am I correct? Or... am I missing something here? If I'm correct, nice money grab. Please let me be wrong on this. SMH

Still here. Only play the game until I run out of reports, which I save for submarine users.

USS Washington

I got into this game in CBT because I saw an add for, "Do you know what would happen between Iowa and Yamato? Now you can find out!" That premise has stuck with me and the 30% of the games I play where it is just surface ships, meaning artillery and torps, keeps me coming back. The game is really good looking. The reading the map, other team, my team, strategy, and Dev Striking keeps me here. I have found WG to make questionable decisions since day one, but something keeps me coming back. It isn't subs. It isn't CV's, and it isn't high DPM pew pew boats that specialize in hiding behind islands or smoke. Those few games where the teams actually slug it out, play well, and it is a good, solid, game the entire match... however rare now... keep me coming back. That and I have some entertainment in Discord playing this game.

Wrong. You seem like a legit person and somewhat intelligent. You certainly post a lot, and you are friendly in game. I can't believe you don't take yourself out of your head and try to think like others that disagree with you. You like to play subs and are defending them constantly. Think of it this way. New players like subs because they can hide on command. Their mistake doesn't result (unless they are in the middle of focus fire.... but this is less and less common as people are getting used to playing subs) in them getting instantly sunk. Sub players seem to focus on one ship. If it is the ship that is the most threatening to an objective, the sub is best thing ever for spotting. If played right, there is literally zero counter play. Here is what else is hated about subs, besides that they don't fit in this current MM: unless you want to be annoying, take away from other's fun, get flamed, ping someone all game, never get spotted if you have any game sense, laugh at all the ASW planes missing or not have range to get near you, have absurd spotting, speed, turning ability, can't get proxy spotted by other sub, hydro only works at 2.5km or less, ping marker isn't accurate, shooting at the ping marker isn't locked on so your shells aren't accurate, homing torpedoes, shotgunning, (did I miss anything) and subs are like the CV re-work. WG dumbed it down so that they are "fun" and don't take much skill to learn or use or take a long time to learn to play correctly. Imagine CV planes with "homing torps or bombs or rockets." Never mind, just give that to the subs. Once you have a hundred matches in a submarine, have learned a flow of the game that suits you, (CV hunting, being annoying, spotting, nuking) then one learns that ASW planes don't go that far. You just have to stay out of range of them. Also, moving while pinging really minimizes damage taken. I'm sure one particular 73% w/r player has taken notice about the free damage and not getting killed. People that are terrible at the game playing a surface ship, now have a safety blanket and the ability to "feel" like they contribute. Is that wrong? I don't think it is wrong to help a player feel like they can finally contribute, not get slaughtered (especially playing the WG punching bag... I mean a Battleship or now a DD) and piss people off with submarine shenanigans. Personally, I blame the WG model of "the rush to tier 10" for making 10's of thousands of bad players. They simply don't learn map awareness, ship types, their strengths and weaknesses, how to kite correctly, how to shoot, ammo type vs angle, so on and so forth. If subs were here in the beginning, they wouldn't be in this state. There is no way in God's green Earth that would happen. Or maybe it is this. Rock, Paper, Scissors. Now introduce UFO. Where does UFO fit? Everyone that created Rock, Paper, Scissors wants to sell the UFO. It can fly, has plasma cannon with homing rounds, and can disappear on command. So, people that play will gravitate towards the UFO because they suck at Rock, Paper, Scissors... or they see an exploit that is guaranteed damage, never get killed if played correctly, and a way to get under someone's skin. The people that play Rock, Paper, Scissors hate the UFO. However, the people that love the UFO stick up for it and "don't understand" why it is hated. Must be because it was introduced later.

Japanese CL's are just terrible. In a Myoko, Atago, Mogami, or Ibuki, you can kite away and let the troll armor/ability to wiggle and make them miss give you a good shot at making it past the halfway point in the match. This can really help in late game as well, burning down the last of the ships that are left. With the new line, you are forced to go behind an island and shoot BB's. To play as a DD hunter is suicide, the torps while do good damage... aren't enough to mitigate the paltry damage the main guns bring. I don't see where the niche is supposed to fit in the current MM. Torp spam CL, the Pan-Asian line does it so much better. Kite and be annoying, seems like any cruiser line does it better. Sit behind an island and shoot BB's, American, UK, Pan-Asia, German, Netherlands, all do it better. The AA isn't that good either. If you spec into AA, you lose too much in either torp skills or damage skills. Yes, the torp angles are really nice. Yes, the ship models look decent. Yes, it is a new line to grind... except even that got screwed up with the legalized gambling/early access. Subs... I hate them, they don't fit in this current MM (unless you want to be annoying, take away from other's fun, get flamed, ping someone all game, never get spotted if you have any game sense, laugh at all the ASW planes missing or not have range to get near you, have absurd spotting, speed, turning ability, can't get proxy spotted by other sub, hydro only works at 2.5km or less, did I miss anything?) Graphics look really good. Game balance changes... well, pretty much the general consensus is that if you are playing a British BB, you are terrible. Anyone can use the high alpha HE with high fire chance and get fires and damage. It takes no skill. So, whatever. How many Thunderer players sit back and don't affect the game? Exactly. Unsporting conduct changes. Well, I don't see many pink ships so it must not be working, or people got smarter. The developers still, and clearly, do not play this game. High tier MM is just a clown fiesta of Superships, Subs, and steam rolls. Ranked is even worse. 40% w/r players in gold. 30% w/r players in silver. Does that seem funny to anyone? And those players are stubborn, argue, and insist on the whole team charging one side to take one cap and then defending. Really??? The sadist in me wants to know what this game will be like in two years. Are UFO's and boarding parties going to be added? Will the boarding parties have the ability to use light sabers as well? Is Yoda or ET going to be a Captain? Just wondering.

I've been asking this for years. World of Warships doesn't have the numbers to do it. Here are my thoughts. Let's just say 10% of the players in any given time actually "likes" CV's and Subs in a Random Battles game. If 10k players were on the server, then 1,000 people would be in essentially the tiers 4-10 que. "IF" someone was a sadist and doesn't play those two ship types, then maybe, being that there is two subs and a CV on the team... or even better, two CV's and two subs, that would be 25% of the team. So, then the matchmaker would make up the other 75% based on the other three types. BB's CA/CL's/DD's. This is the trouble. Games are apparently based on damage output, which is why you can have a Belfast and Atlanta on your team while the other team has Boise and Flint. Having bells and whistles (like radar) does nothing. Matchmaker has to figure out the other six. So, what DD's match up? What Battleships match up? What Cruisers match up? Now between that and what tiers? This would make impossibly long ques. Also, it would prove to WG that "most" people don't like either CV's, Subs, or both. Since WG takes a VERY LONG TIME admitting mistakes (they have to collect data of course) they will quickly (or slowly) realize that a very low population of people that play all ships will probably be frustrated, also the absurd amount of time and money placed into research, implementation, and making management happy to place a very wide-ranging selection of ships into a game that people can "enjoy," would be nullified. I have found management can be misplaced from reality and force the hand. To have a que in Random Battles that doesn't allow CV's and Subs would probably make them look bad at this time. Remember, "management has the right to mismanage." They don't need to play the game. They don't need to make everyone happy. They need to do very little. In this case, make money, make sure more players join the game vs players leaving, and keep pumping out content. USA in the time period of the highest population of players (8-10+) is the only nation that could support the numbers for new ships that are not paper. I'm pretty sure most of the people that aren't American, don't want to play a vast majority of new American ships. Can you hear it? "Oh look, another American ship... JOY!" There are quite a few Canadian ships that are/were real that could be introduced but that timeframe and the amount of ships/ship types would be short. How many more British? German? Japanese? How many more paper ships that "could have been ordered" (dumbest thing I've ever heard btw) can be implemented how much more time does this game actually have before missiles? In my opinion this is why subs and T10 CV's like Malta are added. Content. Also, maybe add time to think of new ideas and ship lines... Maybe adding some nations as well. I don't know. I'm not a WG manager. Content tends to lead to money. This is a business. If WG doesn't make money, this game gets shut down, this forum gets shutdown, and guess what? We play something else or do something else like exercise. I know, strange concept.

Oh, don't worry. The sub lovers will be here sticking up for how great they are. Also, WG is "collecting data". This will make it unenjoyable for a while longer.

No, essentially a DD that can submerge, is so unbelievably fake, and to add the other submarines that are so broken and forced upon us is what I am saying stands out. When super unicums (one which has already replied on this post) can use these as an exploit due to a very large lack of counter play, once played correctly... THIS tier 10 submarine is "standing out" as "wrong" and is a submarine class that is only missing nuke missiles, the ability to launch airplanes (can't wait for that to happen) and a Wave Motion Cannon. It does have a pew pew cannon though. I have seen firsthand, what a great player can do with these... and it is pretty consistent to have them literally terrify the other team or my team. The 40% w/r players? The same ones that probably add heavy AP skill to bb's? They don't know the flow of the game and are a liability. Still doesn't make a sub balanced. Yet... when you look at the numbers, them doing so bad makes it seem balanced. Spreadsheet says so. I played this game when it was sold to us as: "What would the Iowa do against the Yamato" and the Gearing was the original gunboat DD. I applaud WG (for the most part) of putting in historic ships or ships that were partially built, or even... archived plans and then "building" a ship off of them that we can enjoy. This game would essentially be WW1 and WW2 ships. We all know what country had the massive numerical and firepower advantage by the end of it all. That might be boring to some that aren't American. I also applaud what is essentially a small game, to last this long. Are we running out of ships? I don't believe I've seen as much salt over one class ever. Maybe I missed something during the CV rework?

When is 69 knot and every 54 seconds slow? Also, 10k per torp potentially? You also just stated "essentially another DD." So, now we have a Soviet Bias, DD... that can submerge! Really, won't be strong at all. I am timing Langley right now as we speak, to see how many squares on the map it can go in four minutes... at 15 knots or the submersible time for this particular submarine. It went three squares. That is still a good distance and this "DD" is going to be survivable. Oh no, it ran out of air and can now go 40 knots to escape. Nope, no problem whatsoever.

6.1 Detection? It can outrun what, 90% of all ships, has fore and aft tubes, and out detects all gun boats. Meaning it can kite and spam. Also, it has surface detection better than 90% of all ships it will be matched against. I have seen some good players that have gotten behind the wheel (so to say) of subs in their current itinerary and are near impossible to detect, or even damage. Now, you have something that has above average detection, above average speed surface or submerged, and has a good health pool... for a DD! Also, is there going to be a speed boost for this sub class? If that is true... does this mean it goes what, 45 knots now? Who cares if it is surface warfare... it still seems over-tuned. You seem to play subs and post stats and things. You don't think it is "funny" it is faster than 95% of all ships and has basically Halland torps? Maybe it won't hit like a truck but it will be annoying AF and good players will definitely exploit its strengths. Oh no, it is slow underwater and will probably survive everything thrown at it. It will also stay submerged for over four minutes. How much can happen in four minutes? Do you think anyone will loiter for that long to use counter play against it? Even at 18 knots, we all know how far a New Mexico can go in four minutes. So, now what kind of guessing game is this new sub going to bring? My guess? For the sub lovers, fun and engaging, along with damage records. For the rest... annoying and frustrating.

Hello WG. I am a CBT and an admitted Submarine Hater. Since you will be stubborn and force this class upon us, can you please help me understand how and why (besides your history of Soviet Bias... oh let's not forget a certain Soviet CV that had to get towed to the battlefield) you are going to release a submarine that goes 37 knots, has 6.1 detection, has 69 knot torps and 19K health? That's better than some tier 10 DD's that are "supposed to hunt them". Really. One can argue(?) Soviet designs are trash, and Soviet equipment is trash. One can also exclaim they REALLY appreciate the fantasy of your video game that makes them overperform. Thanks? Oh, about that thanks part, thanks for letting the damage farmers and exploiters have a heyday. Nothing like super unicum's or even blue-nicum's that got a Smolensk... let's just do the same thing for a submarine. Are you going to release it in its current state for three months so you can get the numbers? Or, do you use common sense and logic... wait, how silly of me... never mind. I can't wait for the toxicity to balloon again. The universally loved, Soviet Bias, Submarine Class. Thanks...

Hello WG. I am a CBT (Closed Beta Tester) that is still active in this game. I understand that as a business, you need to make money/be profitable. You brand/advertise this game as free-to-play. As with all free-to-play games there will be whales (people that spend ridiculous amounts of money) and these are the people that help keep the servers afloat. As with events that cater to these people there is one flaw and I believe it hampers the new player and their teammates.... especially in tier 10 and ranked. I have been playing tier 10 ranked and randoms, and (not so) very recently I have noticed something that is now "normal" in each match. My team or the other team has someone or... several players that have around 300 games played, total. Ranging from 30-40% win rate. For example... today there was a St. Vincent on the other team with 115 games total. It is possible that this person spent $380.00 USD or... let's say this person spent 150 dollars for it. So this person skipped learning the flow of the game, learning how to read the mini-map, learning to predict your team and the other team, learning how to aim, learning positioning the ship to deflect shells to minimize damage, learning to shoot/aim/hit ships that have priority (dd's in cap or in range, low health ships, bow on BB's aren't the only thing to shoot at) not using dam con with one fire or flood when full health, and other things. So, does this person to continue to enjoy this game and continue to pump in money for a fake ship? Does this person figure it out that one should actually grind a low tier of each class and figure out how to actually play? Or from what I've been seeing... this person buys a few more ships, gets frustrated and leaves the game... never to play it again and telling their friends of another toxic chat game that is filled with cheaters. Why, because they bought a British Battlecruiser that isn't that good and they didn't learn to look at the armor scheme, while noticing it isn't accurate while shooting as well. Maybe this person will do the same for the Puerto Rico as well. (Anyone else notice how little it is played) (Is that because a Des Moines does it better and is free)? You see, there is actually a lot to learn in this game. As someone who likes to have a good team, your business model is making this impossible. Time and time again I am the only one on my team that has a greater than 50% win rate. I find this out by what is called "animal research". The population of players is getting worse and worse because they reach high level ships, but don't get farther than low level of play. I hear streamers which include WG Employees, CC's, Super Unicum, Unicum, and even average players that get so frustrated, because they can't get one good team in 20 matches. To be honest, the business model is breeding losers. Even better, they are stubborn, don't know how to listen and flame when asked why or how they came up with an "order" or decision they typed in chat. Then a pissing match happens and multiple people (me being one of them more times than I can count) get chat banned. The average player is what, below 45% win rate? Even when they div up? That means, they "lose" more than they "win". Like the overwhelming majority of Submarine players. I don't have the answer without saying that more people need to play this game to get a better match maker. I can say that "pay to get high tier" is hurting this game and your events should never allow us to get a tier 10 for early access. WG, you should also never allow a gambling mechanic to do this. While we do enjoy new content, I don't believe that it will hurt the business if we actually have to "earn" our high tier ships, especially tech tree ships. If it is the case for a "special" or premium ship, we should have ample time to earn them, or they never disappear. An idea is, they can buy a high tier (8+) premium after they have ground up to that number in its particular line. This way, someone can continue to invest and get better, all the while knowing that they will earn a ship that they can enjoy.... like a Flint, Black, Stalingrad, or Bourgogne back in the day. Even free XP ships that you couldn't realistically doubloon your way up to get. Shinonome anyone? Those ships were earned, and the players really earned them. Yet we have super ships that are available which mostly means.... someone on the other team gets to farm them while they do little impact for their team... why? Because Hannovers are really good at hitting water (not ships) in the hands of a bad player (or even a good player). I don't have your data or spreadsheets. I don't have the ability to post one like Mouse did or does. I know that people will find something to disagree on in this post. That's fine. Blowout wins or losses aren't fun though. The match shouldn't be decided in less than five minutes. Having someone on my team with 400 matches and does nothing except get farmed and complain in chat isn't fun. Having multiple of those people should never happen and isn't fun. HE Shikishima should not be a thing. Yet... How many others have seen it now? Is HE Shikishima fun btw? People stay when they are having fun. I am seeing more people not have fun now. In my opinion, this was taken away. How is not grinding a line of ships and learning that each nation has different characteristics, not earning and learning that line, and getting worse, now fun? Please look into that WG. Thank you for this wonderful game that I have enjoyed for going on seven years now. But I don't enjoy it like I used to.