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About Grizley

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  1. More importantly, it keeps your fortress of solitude free of pesky flying things that spot you and get you shot from across the map.
  2. Pretty much this. "Look, we took a Martel and made it worse."
  3. Pure DPM is pretty close to everything. The exception is for bringing extreme utility. T8 radar isn't enough. It's not the tankiest, it's not the healthiest. You even gave the examples of ships with more right after that. Most powerful AP you would have to define carefully. It's not the highest damage per shell, it's not the most damage per salvo. The only thing you can mean is slightly better pen angle or more raw pen. That's all the Baltimore has that could possibly contribute to "most powerful AP". That's not "far less" than anything for visibility, it's 1km give or take a little depending on the ship you're talking about. You know what matters more than the sort of differences in pen we're talking about? Flight time. Lets talk about that for a moment. Kutuzov 950m/s, Hipper/Eugen 925, Martel 825, Edinburg 841, Baltimore... 762. That's a pretty huge difference, even compared to the Martel in second worst. You know what else matters? Range. Baltimore is at 15.8, lets run through the other cruisers again and see how that stacks up. Kutuzov 19.1, Hipper/Eugen 17.5, Martel 17.6, tiny little Edinburg 15.4. The bright side is it's not worse than every other cruiser at the tier, the down side is that it's second worst. If cueballing were so risky there should be at least one incident related it. There isn't. Ergo, cueballing while potentially dangerous is safe enough that after thousands or even tens of thousands of replications there were no accidents. We give the IJN the benefit of the doubt on their torpedos blowing up on deck and that was a common occurance. Half the heavy cruisers they ever made self destructed via torpedo. I don't think it's out of line to use the more rapid cycle times. We're not even talking fire times that the hardware can't possibly support, the way some of the other cruisers are. To recap. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of DPM Baltimore will be dead last. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of range Baltimore will be second to last. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of flight time Baltimore will be dead last. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of torpedos it's the only CA with none mounted. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of armor it will be in the middle of the high armor group. Remember the armor is reduced. Compared to all T8 CA in terms of HP it will be in third, with a whopping ~1500hp edge over the lower hp ships. If you think that's significant, take SE. (Hint: it's not) The high points of the Baltimore will be it's AA if it's not nerfed. Even then it will be below Kutuzov and Chappy, on par with Hipper/Eugen, slightly ahead of a non MAA Edinburg on account of DFAA. Not exactly a shining endorsement. When you look at a set of numbers like that and see the Baltimore at or near the bottom in nearly everything it's not hard to see a train wreck coming. The entire package is only made worse by being a CA that needs to be in spitting distance to do it's thing, either radar or AP. That is a significant disadvantage. That's why the Des Moines isn't runaway OP at T10 despite having the raw DPM over anything else. Slow shells, shorter range and more fragile. The only other T8 CA that is short range has both smoke and heal. That's a significant mitigating factor for the abuse that short range ships take.
  4. All powerful Radar

    1. Didn't make up stats. That would be my little weeb stalker pet. 2. Radar is what we have. If you want to propose another mechanic that would work better, then go for it. Saying "There could be better" isn't an argument. 3. Claiming that a DD has less impact than an extra CV is true, but meaningless. Literally every ship has lower impact than a CV. CV > DD. True. CV > CA. True. CV > BB. True. But this doesn't mean you can then infer anything about the relative value of DD vs CA vs BB. For the record, if I had my option to trade any one of a type to another type I would trade 1 CA for 1 DD. That would raise your chances of winning the most. That is in a randumb meta. 4. CVs are a ship type. Radar CA are not a ship type. On top of that, CVs being out of balance is a far far higher impact on the game than one more or less radar CA on a team. CVs counter DDs better than radar CAs. Yes, that's something that should change in their rework. 5. Intuitive is certainly related to realistic, but it's not quite the same thing. I certainly wouldn't expect torpedos to be reloaded, so that would be unintuitive.
  5. All powerful Radar

    You realize that's a good argument for it going through islands, right? You're a good Shima. If you can 100% avoid dying to radar then it's not especially valuable. It should have a value. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get impatient and run into a cap and it turns out that's where the CA that's been hidden the first 5 minute happens to be. Sucks when that happens. It's usually not fatal, but losing the health can be rough. It's still worth the odds. If they've got one unspotted CA and 3 caps, meh, I'll take my chances. There could be a radar rework that involved something like extended range and not going through islands. It would be a very expensive change to very little effect though. I'd rather see them working on the AP changes that should keep BBs from getting full pens on DDs. I'm pretty sure you would too. If nothing else it's that much less damage that a DD takes if they're radared through an island. I'm fine with 5k HE from an enemy cruiser, I'm not ok with 20k from a BB just because he happened to get lucky.
  6. All powerful Radar

    It's kind of sort of balanced, in that outside of a division they try to put the second ship of the same type on the other team. So if there are 2 Des Moines as the only radar ships, then barring other MM strangeness each team will get one. That's not a hard and fast rule, and divisions can break it, but they at least make an attempt. I wouldn't be totally against the idea of tagging radar ships with a MM tag and trying to be sure that if there is say, a DM and a Donkey they go to opposite teams. Currently there is a 50/50 shot that one team will have 2 vs 0. I agree that if one team has no radar to play cat and mouse with the DDs and the other team has 2 that's an uphill battle. The same could be said for quite a few MM combinations, but it's a reasonable change that would probably please most people.
  7. All powerful Radar

    Out of upboats, but that's a good summary yes. Consider this a manual upboat. Basically radar makes decent DD players have to pay attention to enemy ship positions and it counters stupid DDs. This is in my opinion a great place for a mechanic to be. It's very comparable to a BB vs torps, or a CA vs BB AP. Good DD players don't have much complaint in general but there is a very loud minority on the far left hand side of the bell curve that really loves to bang that radar drum. As a side note, I've stopped replying to anyone who doesn't make an argument. I might change that to simply replying "Not an argument" depending how many more emotional appeals we see.
  8. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    Yes, when they said no upgrade for guns I was figuring that included no upgrade to 5000 damage AP. That may be incorrect. The later calculations assumed the 5000 damage shells. I know you didn't just say that Martel has a more exposed citadel than Baltimore though. Martel has the black hole generators and is ridiculously tanky with a halfway competent captain. For comparison in my time in each ship the Martel had a 48% survival rate to the Baltimores 36%. I'm not saying I'm the best Martel or Baltimore in the world but I can tell you that Martel will tank like a champ compared to the Baltimore. Especially considering it can do it's thing from long range and the Baltimore can't. If nothing changes the Baltimore might get slightly more survivable moving to T8, but not much. It will still see T10 games, just a few less of them. It's also losing armor. I'm not ignoring the fact that the angles are better. That's to make up for the lack of torps, which it does reasonably well. The point is, including that, at the magic angle where 30% of the Martels shells are bouncing then the DPM from the Baltimore and Martel are nearly identical. So in the best case scenario you're looking at parity, with a 30% dropoff all the other times. Also ignoring the shell flight time differences. Also assuming the Martel doesn't just switch to their very good HE if the target is over angled.
  9. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    Pretty much. To be fair they have significantly buffed some IJN numbers. DD turret rotation for their hand crank turrets for one. Turns out the Japanese word for destroyer literally translates to "tiny bote that drops torpeedus then runs away". . Ok, not literally, don't look it up. But in function the other navies of the time expected a lot more gunplay from their DDs.
  10. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    Which abilities do you think compensate for 70k dpm compared to Martel? It keeps radar right? So there's that. Des Moines doesn't pay for that in DPM though. It lacks torps. The AA will be good, but not fantastic. It's on the slow side, though better rudder than some other CA of the tier. Rudder being more useful at long range where the Baltimore absolutely does not want to be considering it's pathetic range and slow shells. Terrible main battery range. The shells will have better pen than Martel, but I don't think that will result in significantly more Martel shells bouncing. Not to the tune of a third of them at the very least.
  11. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    That's pretty close to where it was prebuff with the reload module. I can tell you that that won't be good enough. Let me run some numbers real quick. Edit: numbers run. Ok so, to match the Martel the Baltimore is looking at about 5.9 RPM. The Martel is the lowest AP DPM besides the Hipper. This is assuming the Baltimore keeps the 5000 damage shells, despite losing the gun upgrade. I think it's relatively safe to say that the Hipper it's not in a good state and should not be used as the measuring stick. I also think it's reasonable for the Baltimore to match the dpm of the other cruisers. Yes, every ship is a little different, but most of the things about the Baltimore point to better rather than worse than average dpm. The lack of torps if nothing else. I've played through the ship and won't be going back to it, so I don't have any skin in the game really. I do want to see the ships being as well balanced as possible though.
  12. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    I think we're all in agreement then. It's just a matter of how bad 4rpm turns out to make the Baltimore. I played the Baltimore back before the buff and it was painful. It had decent damage when it hit, but nothing mind blowing compared to the cruisers with a much faster rate of fire. If it turns out that Baltimore kicks [edited]with 4rpm, great. If turns out to be back to bottom feeding then I think it's reasonable and even required to increase the rate of fire. They can test 5 and if that's not enough test 6. I suspect that 6 paired with those shells will be too much, but who knows.
  13. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    I have no doubt that you're keeping your tear ducts in training for the next time a DD is mentioned in the patch notes. That said, take your trolling elsewhere, this is for discussing the USN CA split not your mortal offense that any DD might face any sort of adjustment.
  14. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    5rpm for a burst while they had shells on hand in the turret, but the shell hoists could only manage 4 rounds a minute. So you can get a higher rate of fire for a time stacking shells and powder in the turret but that sounds suspiciously like one of those jutlandesque risky practices. Far more risky than the shell ramming. Hypothetically speaking, what is the documentation for the Baltimore reload cycle said it should be 2 rounds a minute? We both agree this is nothing resembling real world performance. Do we go with the 2, or try to approximate a historical value or assign a value that may not match either but gives a balanced ship in the end? Not to bias your answer, but I want the balanced ship. Even over total historical accuracy and certainly over paper limitations written for political or even operational concerns. I simply don't think they can balance Baltimore with 4rpm. The number of barrels is set in stone, and the shell damage is close to being set in stone. Fire rate is certainly up for debate from a historical perspective let alone a balance argument.
  15. 0.7.3 USN Cruiser Changes

    That's an excellent point. There are far more egregious cases of official documentation not matching up neatly with reality. I especially smile to think of the fountains of tears arming Yamatomato with 16" guns would bring. Even if they used the same pen and damage as currently losing that overmatch that's so carefully rigged in it's favor would be hilarious.