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I get that there is a lot of people that like new content because its new and dont care how good the content is or how it effects the game. Those people will be happy. People that want to play subs and dont care for any aspect of sub play from other games will be happy. People that liked sub games and grew up reading sub stories and watching das boot will be sorely disappointed because wg subs play nothing like that. As for the game, if WG created an alternate game mode. A convoy mode with escorts, subs, raiders, etc. There could be a really cool place for subs to exist. One team could consist of DDs, DEs, Corvets, maybe a cruiser or escort CV. The other team could consist of mostly subs with maybe a raiding cruiser or BB. The subs get to pick where they want to start for the ambush and plan an attack, like what subs would do in the battle of the atlantic. Then players can get that cat vs mouse, the silent hunting, the stress of sneaking past the escorts, etc. That sounds really fun, the current implementation is just so much less complex and interesting. Finally I am not excited over what the team compositions are going to be. If I am in a cruiser or BB the majority of what I am looking to target is other large surface ships. There is 0 fun in fighting planes, its not something where my actions can make me win. DDs hiding isnt a super fun game either. If a team has 1-2 cvs, 2-4 dds, and 1-2 subs the majority of the team will be boats that cant be fought over the normal course of the battle. Woe to the BB that spawns alone on one flank when the entire enemy surface fleet is on the other, you wont be able to shoot anything for most the game... Plus that team AA which players have to depend on because they dont get any influence on their AA effectiveness is going to be completely absent if the majority of the team mates are dds or subs. So I really dont think its going to be fun being a surface ship, focused on surface ship combat when over half of both teams are either above, below, or invisible most the game. I wish people would be able to take a rational look at this, count the likely team compositions out, and say "wait a minute, this should not be what happens." Instead of "Any new content is good content"...

2 Pieces of advice for BB players that are struggling against DDs. Just Dodge. Stay near a Friend. Seriously, unlike BB shells or Planes torps have to be predicted way in advance. Often 40 or more seconds. If you are sailing in a predictable pattern for that long you deserve to take damage. Adjusting your throttle and your rudder on a regular basis can completely negate a DD. Also turning away from the DD will really help. For many DDs their torp range is about 10 km, if you are driving away at 30 knots and they launch from 7-8 km the torps might just range out before they get to you. Even if they dont it extends the engagement time giving you more time to dodge and if its a yolo torp run then it might extend it long enough for you to get an extra salvo in. I see a lot of people here that think its totally fine for AA to basically not matter at all unless their are multiple ships but also appear to think that a BB that is out on its own should be able to one shot a DD. I am not sure what the logic there is cause planes regenerate and almost no DDs get to regenerate their HP pool...

Its funny that that advice doesnt seem to apply to people who dislike CVs...

What happened to the people who bought the Atlanta for the same purpose before its AA was gutted in the rework?

That’s not a good analogy. Nobody is being prevented from playing. The petro is not a competitor, it’s a tool in the competition. To use an athletic analogy that actually makes sense it’s more like performance enhancements. Lots of sports ban steroids but don’t prevent prevent competitors from consuming foods or vitamins. Nobody claims that those sports are filtering out the competition when the ban participants because they used steroids. If people want to show off their skills there is an entire tier full of ships that they can use. What is being prevented is everyone basing their tactics around one ship. Something that wouldn’t be required if WG was competent at balancing individual ships.

Kots has had ban ships for a long time, just before each team got to ban one ship before each match. It’s a common tactic in tournaments and forces teams to have alternate tactics to use if their key ship is banned. But obviously the people that never participated know better than the people who have run the most successful tournament in the history of the game...

I mean there are 3 pages of people making this replay out like some kind of stunning victory against a CV. Are CV standards really so low that getting bored and finding another target is considered a win for surface ships? If I am fighting other surface ships I generally dont consider it a win unless I get to punish the other ship in return but I guess CVs are on such a different level than other ships that simply surviving is supposed to be some kind of achievement.

Except thats not true at all. AA is just math, cant make it do better than what the numbers say... People are gathering around to worship a replay of a DD doing nothing other than getting focused by a CV that made bad decisions as if this is some kind of achievement on the DDs part. The CV could have at any moment decided the DD was a waste of time and focused something else. This isnt an example of amazing DD play, its a great example of a CV player making mistakes. There is nothing a DD can do to force a CV to focus it, nothing that forces the CV to ignore the rest of the map. The FDR is even balanced to be better against large ships and worse against small ships than other CVs. Also just fyi. As someone that has actually participated in unicum vs unicum clan battles. 1 degree isnt what makes or breaks a game, its the positions and strategic response to the unfolding situation that makes or breaks games. People that play at lower levels always get caught up in little things and miss the big picture...

Do you count the CV screwing up as the DD prevailing?

Just out of curiosity, is it specifically actions of the DD that shoots down planes or a side effect of the CVs actions? I honestly dont get why people say "I shot down x planes" when the majority of the killing power is flak which players have no control over. Every time someone posts screens of high plane kills and a replay, the replay clearly shows the planes eating tons of flak. So in my opinion high plane kills is just a symptom of poor play by the CV.

So first you were crying about people wanting to counter cvs without any skill involved and now you are crying that people wouldnt actually want any kind of skill based interaction? Currently there isnt any interaction between the player of the planes and the player of the ships, the AA is completely automated. Right now I can punish a BB, CA, or DD that screws up but its impossible to punish planes. Certainly there is some room between nothing and having to manually load and fire my AA guns right? Personally I would want everything to require at least some skillful interaction, without my actions having an influence on why not just watch a movie? Pretty sure that in order to sink a sub a DD has to get close to the sub and then press a button. i.e. yolo in and use a magic consumable to oneshot the sub. Such skillful counter play... I guess we could be using the term yolo in different ways but that doesnt change my original statement.

This seems like a pretty ironic statement since counter to said subs involves a DD yoling and hitting a button. Actually its pretty wrong in general since most of the cv discussion I have seen has been asking for some kind of skill based counter play to planes. Something other than hoping the CV eats flak...

I doubt it would be accuracy. Players can get to unicum without having good aim, as long as shots connect its good enough to get above average numbers if the ship is afloat and in a good position. Plenty of unicums arent racking up the citadels constantly. More likely its positioning, its much more forgiving for CVs because of the mobility of the planes and significantly less dependence on the location of their hull. CVs dont have to worry about being over committed to a flank and getting run over or getting out of position and wasting time driving back to the combat like ships do. If you send a strike to the wrong side of the map you dont even have to drive the planes all the way back. There is even a built in mechanic to throttle how much a cv can over commit to keep them active longer than they would be if they played as aggressively in surface ships. Just theorizing but since positioning is also related to the survival rate of players and there is likely some link between the difference in survival rate between classes and their performance in those classes.

Do you really think wg would have reacted if nobody made a stink about dead eye? I get trying to be positive but from time to time there are things that need to be changed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease... Also just an FYI, deadeye isn’t gone yet, wg just announced their plans right?

So are they going to increase team sizes when subs are present? With having to depend on other surface ships for AA coverage and subs not being a viable target for guns having too many different ships on the team in the back or underwater is going to endanger the surface combat aspect that this game started with. Something which many people enjoy. I imagine 2 cvs per team and 3-4 subs per team being possible which means that worst case half the team cant be shot at the vast majority of the game. Plus 3-4 DDs which are invisible most the game so worst case there might only be 2-4 surface ships that engage in gun combat on each team. Better hope you dont spawn alone with subs or on the opposite flank of the other surface combat ship...