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Phoenix_jz

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About Phoenix_jz

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    Ammiraglio di 1° Divisione Incrociatori Pesanti
    -Italian Heavy Cruiser Ace-
    -Punk Rocker-

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  1. Ship Class Theme Songs

    My song for when I got balls-to-the-wall brawling mode with Gneisenau:
  2. Why HMCS Haida is taking so long

    This right here is a big reason, imo. If we look at WG's releases, they have a really bad track record of knowing what the community wants. There's the Enterprise example here. There's the fact WG was blindsided by Alabamagate. There's De Grasse. Out of the Italian premiums, Cesare has been the only 'good' pick despite the fact we've had four of them. Roma is debatable, but the cruisers are a mess, with d'Aosta being picked over Eugenio di Savoia, and somehow Abruzzi being picked over Garibaldi. Mutsu's another good example, and I'm sure I could come up with a bunch more. I don't know how they are with RU and SEA, but as far as NA & EU is concerned, they aren't great at picking out what players actually want to see as premiums.
  3. I'VE HAD IT!!!!

    I thought that was the British...?
  4. I think it would be cool to see a premium of the ORP Dragon...
  5. So where *is* Vanguard?

    True, but is certainly something that is weaker than what's found on Monarch, and you'd be surprised how effective a 381mm section is on a tier VIII BB - that's why so many people view Roma's armor positively. She's got the equivalent of 381mm on her belt, and then the 40mm section behind the main belt. Lyon has the advantage of, poor guns aside, having an overwhelming number of them for her tier - or, heck, the game. 16 barrels. Vanguard's the opposite - only eight guns, which is the lower end of her tier. And, as we've discussed before, even if, with all upgrades imaginable, she hit the same performance as the German 380/52 - that hull's got a load of other things that compensate for the lack of firepower that all German BBs, at least before tier IX, have for their tier (because the main armament of Bismarck & Tirpitz is the weakest at tier VIII). Like Vanguard they're big and fat relative to other BBs at their tier, both Tirpitz and Bismarck both breaking 50k tons fully loaded (like Vanguard). To compensate, they've got turtleback armor that makes their citadels almost impossible to hit - although to be fair, with their below-waterline citadels, British BBs have something almost as good as if not better than turtleback. However, both German battleships have incredibly powerful secondary batteries, something Vanguard doesn't have. Vanguard's AA is, as mentioned above, not a huge strength for her as her DP guns are weak, and thus it's all concentrated in her highly vulnerable 40mm guns with a 3.5 km base range. In terms of special consumables or abilities, Bismarck brings hydro to the table, while Tirpitz comes equipped with torpedoes. At best Vanguard has a potential super-heal, which only doubles up on her heavy-for-tier hitpoints. And keep in mind, I'm assuming here that they get to keep the 25 second reload of the Mk.II, the 5º/sec traverse of Hood's guns, not to mention to more powerful version of RN 15" HE. There's just a whole lot of kicks in the pants needed to get Vanguard up to tier VIII. While I agree tier VII is just too crowded for the RN atm (though it shouldn't have to be, but that's another issue entirely), that's honestly where Vanguard is best suited to be in-game. Her impressive HP isn't all that much higher than Hood's, and that can be balanced by giving her a conventional repair party versus Hood's improved version. She's 2 knots slower than Hood and probably has a smaller turn radius, although I doubt her rudder shift would match Hood's, which, iirc, is very good for her tier. Her armor overall is stronger, and her guns could be balanced by being stronger than Hood's in raw penetration, but removing the special autobounce & fusing on Hood's AP, and perhaps slowing the turret traverse from Hood's heavily buffed (for a BB) 5º/sec to something more reasonable (if not the historically accurate 2º/sec). Vanguard's AA will always be powerful, but it can be somewhat balanced, especially as she lost AA over her lifetime - at her birth she has 413.2 dps @ 3.5 km, but by 1956 this has fallen to 288.3 dps according to navypedia. And again, HE spam negates thus greatly, as all of that dps is gathered in the 40mm cannons. She's a lot better balanced by at this tier, a British BB more along the lines of true BB like Warspite rather than what the lines ships are. Of course, what I say here is easily thrown out by the argument that WG can't make another tier VII British premium, because they've overcrowded the tier... but that's a different story from where the ship balances best.
  6. So where *is* Vanguard?

    I should note - I had a typo in my statement - I meant to say fire control, nor 'force control.' I dunno what that would even mean. *shrugs* Anyways, I totally agree that the 15"/42 Mk.I was a reliable, accurate gun - it performed well, at least at your typical ranges. However, even with modernizations, it's still and old gun and well behind the 15" guns of the later 1930s - even Bismarck and her light shells. One thing I would note - if we're talking 43/44, isn't a bit unfair to compare the Italians and German radar then (and btw, by mid '43 all of the Littorio-class BBs had production model radars, so that's substantially better than 'completely SOL'), seeing as Vanguard wasn't even completed until '46? Regardless, the 'enormous protection' against plunging fire really depends on who you're looking at. Vanguard, if I'm not mistaken, had the same layout as KGV; 127mm over machinery, 152mm over the magazines. If I'm not mistaken, of the American fast BB classes; they had a uniform 140mm, 154mm, and then 178mm in order from NC to Iowa. Compared to the European Axis BBs, I'm pretty sure it's significantly better than the Bismarck-class, although I'm not massively knowledgeable on their layout (@dseehafer is a much better source for them); but compared to Littorio, it's only really better compared to the armor for the machinery. The upper deck of the Littorio-class was equivalent to 42mm of armor, the main deck over the machinery was equal to 107mm. Over the magazines, it was equivalent to 157mm. Even ignoring the fact that the upper deck was intended to decap incoming shells, that's still thicker magazine armor than Vanguard, although Vanguard beats Littorio by 20mm over the machinery spaces. The disparity in firepower, however, starts to show itself when it comes to who can hurt who at what range. As you mentioned, the range game does favor Vanguard, not only for her excellent deck armor, but also by the nature of her opponent's guns; high-velocity weapons, these were not great at penetrating deck armor. Littorio's guns are able to penetrate Vanguard's machinery deck at 34,000 yards and beyond. Magazines, only past 36,000 yards. They can penetrate Vanguard's machinery belt at out to a range of 32,000 yards, and her magazines at 30,000 yards. So in reality, Vanguard's got a very limited window in which she's honestly safe... and in terms of raw ballistics, the maximum range of her guns was just 33,600 yards... Getting more on-track; In-game, the deck armor, as you yourself mentioned, doesn't mean much. Thus, when it comes to tiering her... well, sure, WG could drop the citadel. But, let's look at what she has to offer, with a low citadel, at tier VIII compared to Monarch: +More HP. She's about 9k tons heavier. +More AA. She's got about 60% more AA in the 3.5 km range, and about 5% better long-range AA in raw dps, but an extra 700m in range. keep in mind, with the rarity of CV's, AA is a situational advantage, and in the era of HE-spam, especially now that RN BBs have plagued joined the game, basically everything that isn't heavily protected gets swept away within two salvoes. All those 40mm guns are going to be gone within minutes of contact with enemy ships - especially if they have an RN BB. + 2 knots of speed - Firepower. She has one less gun, and these are tier VI weapons. The only way the AP works on Hood is via gimmicks, and if you resort to HE spamming - Monarch has you beat. Even assuming they give Vanguard the same 25 second reload as Monarch's guns, you're still using much weaker AP - over 2" more penetration at any given range until you approach 18-20 km. If you HE spam, Monarch's got the extra gun - and her gun ergonomics are superior, able to bring to bear six guns on a target in her forward firing arcs versus Vanguard only bringing four. - Armor. With 381mm abreast her magazines and 356mm abreast her machinery, Monarch's got stronger armor. Her turret faces are also stronger. - Handling - even if we assume they have identical rudder shift, as the longer ship Vanguard will have the larger turning circle. - Stealth - Vanguard's also bigger. She's gonna have worse stealth. Believe me, I'm all for bringing historical premiums to the game - especially in the face of abominations like Monarch (or, as Trainspite prefers to call it, 'Mongrel') - but Vanguard is just an extremely awkward fit. If she does appear, do not expect it to be a Vanguard you recognize - you're probably going to be looking at the Gimmick-mobile 9000 instead. Sure, the hull might suggest tier IX with the HP and the AA power being adequate for the tier (for as long as it lasts in today's meta) - but the armor and firepower really don't suggest anything greater than tier VII. Stick her at tier VIII as a compromise, and you're going to have a very, very ugly ship that probably won't be fun to play.
  7. So where *is* Vanguard?

    The guns by themselves are tier VI guns. Even if we assume better Cardonald shells and new MV, on a per-shell basis we're still talking about weaker guns than what Monarch has. Longer flight times, and lower penetration. This is still the case if you add supercharges. Add in the fact that the 5.25" guns are very meh (9 rpm as a secondary gun, 8.5 dps @ 5.2 km as an AA gun). Having loads of 40mm AA is great, but that's all close range, 3.5 km to 2.5 km base range. The AA is not going to be what people expect, the guns are going to be very lacking - individually these will still be weaker than any other 15" weapon at tier VIII. If I'm not mistaken, Tirptiz was heavier than her, and she's sitting at tier VIII... AA is great, but most mid-range; 68.0 dps @ 5.2 km, 413.1 dps @ 3.5 km. I'd honestly consider Iowa's AA suite to be superior. The armor also isn't better than KGV's from what I gather. It might be possible to make her a tier VIII BB, but she's going to be a very uncomfortable one... It's not a ship I would consider massively capable of smashing any other modern 1930s-40s BB in a straight-up fight outside of the large force fire control advantage of being a late to post-war Allied BB. If we were being true to real life and ignoring what might be done in the name of trying to balance it to a higher tier, it's firepower is basically that of Warspite.
  8. I wasn't disagreeing with you per say, but rather the stance WG was taking on it. As I explained, it just doesn't seem to make sense given 3/5 are essentially not even paper. Not quite, for GK. As I said in the thread that was linked, I was PM'd and told she's not a real design.
  9. The farming of downvotes begin.

    can we even upvote stuff anymore?
  10. Frist Italian Premium: BB Roma idea

    So, insane thought. At this point we're going to have to see a major drop in one area of the ship to see a rise elsewhere if it becomes a line ship... Alsace has just broken the barrier or 15" guns at tier IX... admittedly with nine of them, but here's a crazy thought. Instead of finding something to nerf on on Littorio/Veneto (whichever they use for the line ship)... Maybe a tier IX Littorio with 2.0 sigma, 870mps MV, engine pushed to maximum output of 160,000 hp (31.5 - 32 knots, maybe? Or, go with Richelieu & Russian level interpretations, forget the extra 6,000 tons, and just go for 32.2 knots...?), and a full AA refit? And for lols, if the 152mm secondaries are kept; 8 rpm? And then tier X could be BB1936/UP.41 with 406/56 for absurd penetration. Maybe compensate overmatch disadvantage and only nine guns with better autobounce angles along the lines of Hood?
  11. To be honest, I kinda find that to be a bit of a weak excuse at this point. Tier X is the only spot where there isn't a clear option... but let's be real here; Britain didn't have a real tier X option. WG radically altered an old WWI design, at least if you ignore the 4x3 419mm hull option. Germany didn't have a tier X option, period. WG made up a tier X-capable design on their own, only basing it on the H-classes as far as to make it fit reasonably along their progression. France's tier X has never been mentioned once by anyone anywhere that I've ever seen, so at the moment I'm not to confident in it's origins (especially since it seems like an enlarged Gascogne). And there you have it. Out of the five lines currently released or confirmed, only 2/5 have ships known to have existed as a design or completed ship. Of the other 3, one is almost totally fiction, another is, and the third is unknown but also likely fiction. Tier VIII & IX for Italian BBs is pretty much a no-brainer; Littorio (given their past track record with fascist imagery, I wouldn't be surprised if we get Vittorio Veneto for the line ship instead, as I think using 'Italia' would be an unlikely choice) for tier VIII, and then for tier IX the BB1936 (UP.41) design. Tier X would probably be a fictional evolution of the tier IX, if I were to hazard a guess, they might use the earlier gun layout of 3-2-2-3 found on the rebuilds, but instead using the 406mm/56. While you'd be stuck unable to overmatch 30mm armor, you'd be using the most powerful weapon in the game, so it would offset that in my mine. Less guns overall than the other 406-420mm BBs, but more guns than the overmatch-empowered weapons (431-460mm BBs).
  12. As @mofton said above, they're MIA, possibly KIA. They were the DDs that missiles were being messed around with... and that idea got scrapped.
  13. So where *is* Vanguard?

    Hmmm.... another tier VII premium for the British! Because why stop at four tier VII battleships when you can have five! In all seriousness.... she's not gonna be able to cut it at tier VIII. Keep in mind, she's still using the 15"/42 MK.I's. The best version of these guns are found at tier VI on Warspite; QE & Hood both use weaker versions. This thing's got a tier VIII-IX hull, a souped-up KGV near Lion hull... but tier VI firepower. Think of a Monarch with one less gun, and the other eight guns are weaker overall, even if you keep the 25 second reload Monarch's guns get.
  14. My WoWS Christmas List

    That I will close my eyes tonight; and when I wake up tomorrow that I'll have realized that a line of British battleships being centered around HE-spamming was just a dream nightmare after all.
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