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About Lurper

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  1. Lurper

    I like the teamwork submarines bring.

    You're confusing concealment with spotting. Of course submarines are going to be harder to spot. Base concealment is based on the size of your ship. Subs are small. Hence, much harder to see. Still, the only way a sub can spot you is if he is inside your concealment zone or you have been spotted by someone else. That's it. Many of you seem to argue that 1. If you're in a DD, you MUST immediately attack and eliminate enemy subs. This is also known as "yoloing". If you're too stupid, impatient or whatever to wait for the right opportunity to engage enemy subs, it's not WG's fault. 2. Sub torps are hard to dodge. THEY ARE NOT! There have been many times that I've had torpedoes miss even when both targets were hit. The fast the target, the easier it is to avoid torps. It's that simple. This applies at any range. I've had DD's and CA's dodge torps within 4km many times. Last game, a Perth that rushed me, dodged 5 of 6 torps that I fired starting from 6km out. I was able to ping both targets and launch 3 sets of 2 torps and the only one that hit was from the first salvo. This was with my tubes aligned with his direction of travel (bow on). 3. Subs are somehow invisible yet can spot any ship anywhere at anytime. Spotting mechanics work the same for subs as they do any other ship. Subs can be spotted by aircraft if they aren't deep enough. Ping too often and you will also get spotted. 4. There is some "magic" invulnerable zone. Just not true. If your'e above 6m you are susceptible to gunfire. Below 6m and you are susceptible to depth charges. Changing depths is a valid tactic for subs to use. The only thing I haven't been able to test is a ship ramming a sub at 6m depth. Subs also cannot dive deeper than torps as far as I can tell. I used the maximum depth consumable and still had torps follow me. Quick maneuvering is the key to dodging torps. Homing or otherwise. Seems to me that many people just have an axe to grind and don't base their arguments on facts. As a DD main, I actually like subs and think they are a good addition to the game.
  2. Lurper

    I like the teamwork submarines bring.

    Why is it that people who post on here have to resort to hyperbole instead of just stating facts. And, why do they always try to use an outlier to prove the norm? It seems to me that there are people who have already made up their minds regardless of facts and want to poison everyone else's opinion (at least the "Sheeple" who can't think for themselves). I have to agree with Athena. I have seen a lot of teamwork in sub battles. Particularly SS working together. But also SS & DD working together. Subs do not/can not outspot DD's. Probably the same as it would've fighting a DD instead. The Sub had no particular advantage that I can see.
  3. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    Okay, first of all, the "immunity Belt" is a myth. I've tested it twice now. Ran at 5.9m. Got hit by main guns and had torps fired at me. So y'all can quit spreading that myth. It is correct however, that you can run at full speed at that depth. So, that needs to be addressed. It also appears not to drain the battery at that depth either. How is a sub dodging torpedoes any different than a DD dodging them. The same mechanics apply (i.e. speed, detection range, etc.), no difference. Subs have no advantage over DD's when it comes to dodging them. Yet, the homing torps are just as easy to dodge as non homing torps are. Even (maybe moreso) at close range. Hydro, spotting, etc. are all counters. Unless there are no ships on your team with them. Just like a DD, a SS relies heavily on stealth. Once detected, they are easily killed. It's one thing to be unhappy about something. It's another to resort to hyperbole to try to sour other's opinions.
  4. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    Two battles is not a big enough sample to prove or conclude anything. Life is full of difficult decisions. You can decide to be aggressive or lay back and be patient. You could just have easily continued to torp the BB until it was sunk and then attacked the sub. You assume that the sub is going to hit you. SS torps are no harder to avoid than DD torps. I think the data will show similar hit % as DD's. Subs are not a big threat to DD's. I say that as a DD main with more than 5700 games in DD's. Subs are not going to have a big impact on randoms. And, I'm pretty sure they are coming to randoms; look how many people are playing them. They certainly aren't going to have anywhere near the impact that CV's do. In fact, what I'm seeing in sub battles more and more is SS working together and SS & DD working together.
  5. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    Have you guys even played submarines? 1. They do not outspot DD's. Especially when submerged. 2. DD"s are very difficult to hit even with the "homing" torpedoes. 3. In most instances, DD vs SS, DD will win. 4. If you ping too often, you will in fact be spotted. So many Chicken Littles running around screaming "The sky is falling!" while ignoring the facts. The only difference I can see subs bringing to random is another target for DD's.
  6. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    "Impossible to hit". Oh, you mean like a BB that is out of torpedo range or perpendicular to the sub, or both? No excuse, CV's can keep them spotted the whole game if they don't dive deep enough. The fact is, you can outrun them. No matter what you want to say or any anecdote you provide.
  7. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    Subs should have deck guns. You can break out all the hyperbole, but the reality is that the "homing" torps are just as easy to dodge as DD"s torps are. While depth charges are not. I doubt we'll see 20k torps, but if we did, there would be nothing wrong with it imo. First, you have to spot the ship to hit it. Then you have to ping it and hit the target to lock the torpedoes on. If you ping it too soon, the lock is lost before they hit the target and chances are you will miss. If you ping it too late, the torps can't make the proper course adjustment to hit the target. Tier X boats should be harder to detect, have better and faster torpedoes and deck guns. Spotting is broken in the whole game. But subs should not be able to share their spots with the rest of the team. I really shouldn't have to explain it. But since you prefer hyperbole to fact, here it is: Press and hold the "W' key until you are at full power. While doing that, turn in the direction the torpedoes were travelling. Watch behind you for more incoming torpedoes and use mad WASD hacks to avoid them. Right now, worst case scenario is you have to get 10.5k away from the sub. Or, 6.6 or 8 depending on which sub. If they pursue you underwater at any speed above 1/4, they will deplete their battery. Which means that they can't ping you for the homing torpedoes. So, they will have to surface. If they surface close enough, you can see and engage them. If not, you will have to evade for a little while. But, the fact remains that your top speed will be about 1.5 times his. So, outrunning him is relatively easy. Look, no one is saying that you're going kill subs easily. Unless they make mistakes. But, they are far from hard to deal with. In fact, they are a lot easier to deal with 1 v 1 than a DD is. By a huge margin.
  8. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    I'm guessing that most of you guys haven't played subs because most of your comments don't reflect reality. Subs are extremely easy to detect and kill. Right now, torps are short ranged (6.6, 8 & 10.5k). Dodging the "homing" (only in the loosest sense of the word) torps is relatively easy. Even in a sub. ASW has been a DD's role IRL. So, why not have it be here? Oh, so you mean that capital ships will sit way back, hide behind islands and not support their DD"s? wth is different from Randoms now?
  9. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    That's absurd. You may eat a couple of torps. But if you're too dumb to figure out that all you need to do is go the opposite direction that the torps game from at full speed, you deserve to be sunk. You guys ignore the reality. Any ship can outrun a sub on the surface or submerged. Don't have ASW? Run away! Who knows? Maybe this will encourage more teamwork by having DD"s run ASW screens for the cap ships.
  10. Lurper

    Flamu: Subs - a disaster brewing

    Having played nothing but subs for the last 2 days, I just don't see where they are going to change much in the game. Many of Flamu's points are not valid. Any ship can outrun you, including BB's. So, while they can't kill you, they can get out of range. Top speed for Subs is about 20k. While you don't have to surface if your battery runs down, it still cripples you and makes you an easy target. Most of the time you are going to stay at 1/4 power until you are detected. Then you go to full power and it's only a matter of time before you have to slow down or stop. If there is another ss, or an ASW ship nearby, you are probably dead. Not to mention that you can't ping when your battery gets too low. Torps do relatively low damage and it's a lot harder to hit than you think. The homing mechanics are poorly implemented (in typical WG fashion) and are no guarantee of a hit. I've had plenty of ships dodge my torps with both targets lit up. Even inside 5k. So, they just aren't that big of a threat. Overall, I just don't see a big impact for anyone but DD's (maybe). There are far bigger issues than bringing subs into the game that will never be addressed: poor radar implementation, terrible spotting system, ships that turn like Porsches, etc.
  11. Lurper

    Problem with EURO DD

    Uh no. The average damage for Halland's torps is around 6500. Max damage doesn't mean a thing. Just like the average damage for her guns is 400- 500 even though max is 2,000. The torps should get a 15 - 20% buff (maybe 12k max damage). I've hit BB"s 8 times and still not killed them. Even with narrow spread, the torps aren't that hard to dodge except in the most sluggish BB's. Hit probability means nothing if you have to hit the target 3 times as often to do the same amount of damage that other torps do.
  12. Lurper

    newish player, bit frustrated

    Your biggest mistake was picking DD's. They can be brutally hard to play. Especially since the game is broken when it comes to DD's. You have to deal with; impossibly nimble capital ships, guns that do about 200 average damage, virtually indefensible CV attacks, absolutely absurd radar/ hydro implementation, torps that are mediocre on most DD's and teams that don't support you. You have to learn the nuances of each boat. You don't play a Shima ( stealth torping) the same way you play a Kleber (gunning 90% of the time) for example. Each boat has it's niche. Finding it can be costly. Don't rush into capping, spotting or anything else that your teammates tell you to. Most of them are clueless when it comes to DD's. Keep an eye on the tactical situation (via the minimap), never think in the present moment, think at least 15 seconds ahead of now. If you're in a stealthy boat, stalk your prey like a puma. If you don't have strong AA, stay close to ships that do until later in the battle. Don't be afraid to run away then circle back to cap. Try to be aware of where the radar ships are. Build your skill on a lower tier premium DD. One of my favorites is the Kamikaze R. Don't be afraid to lauch 100 torps to score 1 hit - you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Don't worry about your WR. Contrary to what most people tell you, you don't have a lot of influence on WR in a DD (as opposed to a CV for example). The days of good DD players carrying potato teams have passed.
  13. Lurper

    CV vs Halland

    This is like "The Emperor's New Clothes". Everyone saying "Halland melts squadrons" , et al, ad nauseum. When the facts show otherwise. Halland has good AA. But, it still gets killed regularly by CV's. Just got rekt in mine last game. Two rocket plane attacks and I was dead. My magical squadron melting AA did nothing to stop it. If you can't kill a Halland with your CV, the best solution for you is to not play CV"s. Good CV players can kill them at will.
  14. Lurper

    CV vs Halland

    Dude, whatever. With all due respect, if you can't kill a Halland, then you aren't much of a CV player. I get rekt regularly by good CV"s in my Halland. One rocket attack takes about half my HP. Meanwhile the rest of the enemy team pounds the crapoutta me because I'm lit and can't hide. Then the CV comes back at their leisure and finishes the job. I'm so tired of lame CV's saying "I can't kill a Halland" when they are on my team. Suck it up Buttercup. You are going to take losses when you attack. That's as it should be. You don't have the right to expect to be able to attack any ship without taking losses. A good CV player will neutralize enemy DD's for the whole game. Including Halland.
  15. Lurper

    DDs the oppressed class

    Most influential, really? NOT! The days of carrying games in DD's died with the absurdly poor implementation of radar. CV"s are by far the most influential ship in the game. DD's don't usually get killed by other DD's. (in fact most DD"s are not good DD hunters). DD's usually get killed by CA's or CV"s when they get spotted. The game is badly broken when it comes to DD"s. Between capital ships that turn on a dime, guns that do 200 hp damage per hit (In Kleber: 254 main gun hits, 1 torp hit, 2 floods, 2 fires = 30,800 damage?!?!?! Do the math), torpedoes that are with few exceptions anemic, air attacks that cannot be stopped (Even in Halland, I get rekt regularly by rocket planes), terrible implementation of radar/spotting and ships that can sink you in one salvo, DD"s are certainly the oppressed class. The way radar/hydro works is absolutely absurd. The sad thing is that most of the DD's issues could be easily fixed. Either all ships or none should have radar/hydro. Radar/hydro should only show the enemy to the ship that is using it, not the entire team. That's really also how spotting should work. Increase the turning radius and decrease the turning speed across the board. It's ludicrous that a BB can turn fast enough to dodge torps from inside 4k. DD's guns should be buffed. There is no excuse for guns that have a supposed max damage of more that 2k to do 300 hp damage per hit against ships with 60k+ hp. DD's should get a buff in enemy shell dispersion. I had a BB kill my Marceau in his first salvo from 16k away while I was going 43 knts and at full health. That's totally absurd. DD's should have 7 - 10 % increased enemy shell dispersion. Finally, AA should be buffed on all DD's. The idea that most planes should be able to penetrate the AA umbrella is unrealistic. But, nothing in this game is really realistic is it?