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Neph

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  1. Calling the Deutschlands 'coastal defense battleships' only ignores their role entirely and most of their design elements, simply to focus on 'mid-large guns, and two turrets'. Coastal defense battleships are shallow draft, short ranged. Graf Spee is a commerce raider, who is much faster than any coastal defense ship, has far longer range, and is designed for an utterly different purpose. Most Coast Defense Ships had under 20 knot speed for example, and every example that served in WW2 was half or a quarter of the displacement of a Deutschland... This is again, like calling Furious a Super-Battleship, just because she mounted multiple 18 inch guns. It misses the bigger picture of how these ships were designed to be used. Having over 16k nautical mile range isn't 'coastal defense' in any possible sense of the word. The Deutschlands also had deeper draft and more speed.
  2. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are undeniably battleships, but armed with sub-BB weaponry compared to their contemporaries. Just like how Graf Spee is a CA, armed with heavier than normal guns. After all, they were waiting for those twin 15 inch turrets to be ready for replacement when the war got in the way. Contemporaries being the 14, 15 and 16 inch weaponry of all brit capital ships (after all of their 13.5s were retired too), the 14 and 16 inch weaponry of Americans, the 13 and 15 inch weaponry of the French, etc. I mean, USS Wyoming got refitted to have only 5 inch guns for training. But that doesn't make those battleship guns, despite being on a BB hull :)
  3. Yeah, and they weren't real BB scale weapons by that time. They were expediencies (such as on Scharnhorst) while waiting for their real armament. All the other properties were basically a CA. Sorta like how HMS Furious is not a super battleship (or any form of battleship) despite carrying 457mm guns :)
  4. Deutschlands were ocean-going heavy cruisers , that happened to choose a 6x11 inch battery instead of a larger number of 8ish inch guns. Which remember, are still not battleship-scale weapons. They're armored like CAs, have almost comparable speeds, and fought (and lost) to cruisers.
  5. Hood wins by a mile. She has the armor scheme of a QE-class battleship with the same firepower, but doing 30 knots. Kongo is her inferior in every single way, even post-modernization.
  6. They're Fast Battleships in the same way that Hood is a Battlecruiser: Name scheme. Hood was a BC because it was Brit parlance then to call any capital ship that could beat 25 knots a BC, even if it was superior outright to the Queen Elizabeths, their most powerful Battleship of the time. Japanese called the Kongos Fast Battleships because they chose to call them that. Even if by all means, they were no match for anything anyone else could call a Fast BB. Fast BBs were Battleships that exceeded 25 knots and made no sacrifice to firepower or armor to do so. So basically the world's whole list as far as I can think of is: Richelieu, North Carolina, South Dakota, Iowa, Vittorio, KGV, Bismarck, Yamato, Vanguard. They were even matches for their rival Fast Battleships for the most part, made speed and were able to resist comparable firepower. So in this sense, Dunk and Kongo are not Fast BBs by some international comparison. Post-rebuild Kongo and Dunk couldn't stand in the same way up against any contemporaries, and Scharnhorst had a Battleship's hull, but not it's weaponry.
  7. The Allies had a good idea as a whole how powerful they were. No estimates had them at less than 9 16-inchers, with estimates of their capabilities as between basically a North Carolina clone, and the actual Yamato. The only things the Yamato would absolutely dunk on were the Standards, which she could dictate range. That was her designed purpose. Against any of the Fast Battleships, so much of it is who lands the first hit and starts to suffer guns being put out of action. By the time the actual Yamato specs came to light and both ships were finished, the US already had a counter: That wad of Essex-class Fleet Carriers rolling off the slips.
  8. Neph

    Job Well Done.

    Totally. It's ideal to have support in range, but not always possible. You can't drag other players to do the right thing, and if nobody does it-- well, you'll have what I had multiple times yesterday: Several games go by with zero caps by either team, and ending early from a few early kills.
  9. Neph

    Job Well Done.

    Uh. Getting caps is part of DD team play. Hugging a battleship means you're useless, because you're not scouting, not torping, capping, denying territory and so-forth. Sailing independently is possible for DDs and not Cruisers why? Because of concealment. Else without concealment and with play being focused around proximity to team mates, be a cruiser. You do not understand what importance DDs play as a team asset.
  10. Neph

    Job Well Done.

    One thing to note: I play all surface classes equally. BB, Cruiser and DD. They all serve different roles, and you feel the absence of one very badly. Yesterday I played two games with zero DDs but 2 CVs. Both games ended with none of the 3 caps captured, as Cruisers couldn't advance, BBs sniped, and CVs did no damage whatsoever and ended up in bottom 4 on both teams. One game ended with only half of the enemy ships destroyed since that team then ran out of point from the loss penalty. This isn't a great environment. One game I played with DDs had both DDs obliterated early from rocket and DB runs and spotting from CVs. The game ended the same way, as neither side could push anymore and no CVs landed any meaningful attacks. My Alsace got attacked by a Midway, with a Montana nearby and neither of us took any hits. The dynamic here really throws off surface warfare in a bad way, even without the CVs doing any damage due to AA being oppressively strong on non-destroyers.
  11. Neph

    Job Well Done.

    I've posted elsewhere, but the balance is out of whack. Basically: AA BBs and CAs shred planes to the point where a single strike from a full squadron is as best you can hope for. If two players are in covering range of each other, forget it: nothing's getting through. DDs are helpless, and you can make repeated passes at them or permaspot the troublesome ones. Rocket Planes and DBs are useful. HE DBs if anything feel buffed from before. Torp Planes do little damage and die horribly since their attack profile means you sail right into the flakbursts with no way around it, and lose the entire squadron against all but the worst AA equipped ships. Air to Air is nonexistant: I've shot down maybe 3 enemy planes with my fighters in 3 games total. Meanwhile a normal ship can shoot down 10s a game if the opportunity provides. The fighters are denial, not attack. IF anything, perhaps they should follow your strike squadron to cover them or pursue enemy planes.
  12. Neph

    This is a Freaking Disaster

    That's really just so very odd. I had a Midway make a torp run on my DM before, and the wave got through, I dodged the torps, then the squadron was gone. The only other possible contributor was an Amagi like 6km away, so he probably had at least some contribution but probably not that much.
  13. Neph

    This is a Freaking Disaster

    Legitimate Problems - CVs cannot carry. Period. They don't do enough damage, and don't contribute to the 'targets for enemies to engage' factor that leads to local fire superiority. Yes, even that potato Bismarck sitting on cap is contributing by at least drawing fire away from better players, which CVs don't do - Flakbursts are insane nuclear fireballs. Any ship with 'OK' or better Flak puts up enough clouds to be undodgable at long range if you're remotely approaching, and touching them instantly kills half your squadron. - DDs are screwed. You an orbit DDs and make casual rocket or bomb runs on them to your heart's delight until cruisers save them. A rework DB attack is comparably damaging to an old one, but you get more and can continuously harass the guys. - Torpedo squadrons instantly die if they attempt a close attack. The flakburst wall guts that squadron of planes instantly, meaning you get maybe one drop against a modestly AA capable Battleship - Air to Air is weird as hell. It's mostly denial rather than countering, which feels uninteresting. Pity. - AA is so strong that I don't see the point of switching sectors. Even cruisers with traditionally 'B-' levels of flak swat down planes so maybe at best one run gets off at them.
  14. SC had dual superfiring centerline, but did NOT have all or nothing armor. Nevada was the first US BB with All or Nothing.
  15. Building a modern warship is much slower, not by necessity but by peacetime. We don't need to rush ships and have them cost more. In fact, keeping the slow build of replacements is what maintains shipbuilding contracts and capability. Modern ships aren't getting worn out in a matter of 5 years service due to hard use, or being obsoleted every 3-5 years as well. If WW3 breaks out and lasts years, you can expect some stripped-down burkes being pooped out every 9 months.
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