Lexekon

It's nearly impressive that you managed to get within sonar range of the CV before some overly competitive team mates rushed over to kill it. I sensed an apparent disdain for the subs, from certain players. Little things like friendly fire incidents. Not everyone, but at tier 6 or higher oops is not a valid excuse either. I deliberately tried to test Sub vs CV dynamics, and discovered frustration getting teams to work together at all.

Going by youtube videos on subs, is like trying to taste food through youtube. You miss out on some important details. 1. There are two effective tiers to sub torp damage, and they are not nearly consistent enough right now to modify like you are suggesting. 2. This actually has a flip side, where the 'guidance' package often forces a gap between the torpedo's. This gap is enough so many ships can avoid at least one, if not both, of a fired pair. (I have seen this happen a ridiculous number of times) The 'belt bypass' you refer to does not unbalance damage, it applies it differently to balance missed torps that would have otherwise hit. 3. DD torpedo's are inconsistent with speed, even on a single tier. This is a misleading mechanic to play with. DD torpedo's balance is equally questionable in this light. 4. The missing deck guns and AA, for many subs, is comical. The Tier X German sub has two actual turrets, which are apparently cosmetic only right now. (It has NO rear torp launchers, so having small secondaries would not be terrible) 5. Agreed. But if they did that it would restore some DPS that is being suppressed right now. 6. Make this an aspect of the radio location skill, since the sonar techniques at the time depended on a lot of factors. (Not to mention, the sub hydrophone is awkward to use at best, requiring line of sight AND recalling where you saw the momentary blip at) Right now, and I think this is possibly deliberate, subs are a bit underpowered. I say deliberate, because people in coop play next to them, and are generally underwhelmed by how easy it is to get kills before subs can even react.

Well, in fairness the subs realistic tactics are not quite available in game, due to time constraints. Subs did a lot of tedious tracking and coordinating behind the scenes, often for days at a time. Obviously they cannot duplicate that here, so a lot of the play needs to be gamed to create equivalent spur of the moment options. This includes tweaking the subs stats to both go faster, and have bizarre submerged timer mechanics.

Yes, I think his point was that the German tier X sub was based on a highly advanced real world submarine model. This has not translated effectively into the game, with the in-game version being cosmetically related only.

Really going to focus on that last line. You are pointing out how ineffectual they are, and conclude they need to be more limited than CV presence on a team?? CV's are limited due to their outsized impact. A good CV player can be devastating to an opposing team, while subs are utterly missing this nightmare impact. While RL subs were scary, it owed more to perception than actual effectiveness in combat.

Just pointing out, the BBs are highly capable of handling subs. I killed one by accident, I did not even know it was there. Not kidding here, my secondary turrets spotted and killed it before I knew it had shown up. Add this to the main guns able to target and pop them, both on the surface and at periscope depth. If they are operating depth or lower, no direct weapons available. (If you are in certain BBs, the secondaries have equal or greater range to those torps, so BBs not gonna worry when I am driving em)

I noticed a few details while playing subs, and to be fair, my comment on it being close to fun was brought up as well worded. (Thank you, BTW) One detail, which feels out of balance, is that subs right now feel dangerously close to being trivial. In one match, I noticed a player in a DD simply whiz by me, kill off a BB that I HAD been about to engage, and then zip off to the CV in the distance. This happened quite often, and is due to the combination of slower sub speed, and limited range. Added to which, the moment a sub enters the vicinity of enemy ships, spotting it is effectively a free benefit. They don't need to actively check, it is handed to them on a silver platter. Now, I could see an effect like the 'Radio Location' finder being active, triggered by proximity. But don't simply point it out, for no effective effort like it is now. It should seem strange, that a destroyer in smoke is more effectively hidden than a submerged submarine.

I have been wanting subs in this game for years. I wish I was exaggerating that timeframe, but it's quite literal. These subs feel very close to fun, but I suspect they are slightly underpowered. I have the impression MAYBE that some sort of group coordination might redeem their gameplay, but that seems awkward. Sub mythology has them appearing with no warning, not playing guard dog to other ships. Now, I clearly label that as mythology, as these were group hunters. Working with surface ships made surprise less likely, due to opposing forces already being on alert, but it could be workable. I would hope they introduce snorkel technology as a balancing element, so periscope depth is not being charged as heavily on dive power drain. Maybe a break even?