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Trophy_Wench

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  1. Trophy_Wench

    ST 0.9.11 - 0.9.12, new ships.

    Aligheri and Conte de Cavour look great. I was wondering if they were going to use her as -built design or the rebuild but since Cesare is her rebuilt form then there's your answer. U.P. 41 looks fantastic too, excited to pick that one U.P! Also, I 3rd the renaming of Vampire II to Vampire '59. Also, I know that this has been brought up before but I'll chime in here as well: Give some more consideration to renaming the high tier Italian BBs to something more in line with their naming conventions.
  2. Noooo @LordHood2552! You're falling into the trap all over again! For the record, I have seen the secretprojects thread those images came from. Those prelims are simply just variation of the same basic concept. As I mentioned before, the Dutch abandoned torpedo destroyers almost immediately after WWII (save for the LL ones already in inventory of course) so anything that you can call "Dutch" and have TTs slapped on it might as well be a WeeGee invention, rather than a real, or semi-real ship. By that same logic, your reimagined 'Super-Wolf' as it were is still the same problem. The Dutch Navy didn't bother trying to heavily upgrade or modify them because they just needed 'more' destroyer as it were. Just because the ship comes from that nation, doesn't mean that it's the best or most appropriate choice. And since I brought up tier II... I did also see that German DD for Greece as well. While I had briefly considered it, it's combination of small guns, and heavy TT armament makes it... just wonky for tier II. It also gels very poorly with both this line and I would assume your upcoming Greek line as well. As a premium tier... III or something? Aside from the fact that I had 2 Spanish ships in my theoretical line, putting the Alsedo in at tier II also provides me with a way to easily segway into a predominately Spanish DD line at some point. Sadly, I haven't finished that one yet because I can't find any info about their project ships (beyond Oquendo). I also threw in some Greek and Turkish DDs in that line too but the main, flavour of it, is that it's basically just another line of British DDs. Either derivative ones or straight LL.
  3. Trophy_Wench

    New classes of ships

    May I draw your attention to this.
  4. Spectacular! Thanks @LordHood2552! So she had 6 akwardly placed TTs and the 5th gun was mounted amidship. That would certainly work for tier V.
  5. It's funny you mentioned those ships, I once had them in those exact tiers! I downtiered Aetos only because when I discovered her original configuration was so... odd, I figured she just couldn't work anymore that high up even as a (a) hull option. But since you mentioned you're doing a Greek line, I'm really excited to see that! As for Alsedo, I waffled back and forth on the tiering but in the end, Bustamante is too weak and Alsedo, being derived from the British Lightfoot-class from WWI, can be balanced much more appropriately.
  6. You find me taking a break from my regularly scheduled (yah right!) battlecruiser ranting to discuss something far more complicated and rage inducing among the keyboard warriors here: Pan European DD lines and specially the lack of onderzeebootjagers in it. Or, you know insert whatever other nation besides Sweden and A-H here. I was specifically inspired by a recent Reddit thread concerning a hypothetical Polish line. While the OP's line isn't all that well done, I did get me thinking about the work I shelved on the Pan Euro lines and how the other nations DDs can fit together to create more lines, now that Sweden is off the table. In short the answer is... But! I'm going to try anyway. Because, what the hell else am I going to do? Grind tokens? Anyhoo, lets start by explaining what it is I'm actually trying to achieve. In short, it's a second line or maybe a line split for Pan Europe that will include prominent Dutch designed and operated DDs. Destroyers are the most common and varied surface combatant among the minor European navies that are usable for WoWs. The Netherlands, Sweden, Spain, and A-H/Yugoslavia being among the most prolific when it comes to independent designs. Greece and Turkey, along with Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania and even the likes of Estonia and Bulgaria all have some kind of destroyer that can theoretically contribute, whether acquired from an outside source or built indigenously. The big problem is with so many different and simultaneously similar designs, making cohesive lines of ships out of this is quite difficult. Really the only exception is Sweden, as being a neutral country, could continue development (if not necessarily construction) of destroyers all the way through WWII. Pretty impressive for a country with such a small industrial base, population, and awkward geographic location. They are however, very much considered the exception rather than the rule which, more than any other reason is likely why they were implemented first; they were the most homogeneous line that could be implemented. So where does that leave The Netherlands specifically? Any why them at all? Well, basically it comes down to the fact that they are the next most unique designs of DD in Europe at the time, and have capabilities that are simultaneously similar and different to the Swedish ships, as the Royal Dutch Navy typically looked to Bofors for a lot of their armaments. They also looked to Germany and Britain to armaments as well, making them quite multicultural ships! The other reason is that, really, a lot of us just feel like after Freisland, the Dutch were kinda done dirty by Lesta in taking the easiest road to implement a Pan European techline. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Swedish DDs too and it is the most logical place to start, but the heart (and @Lert) wants what it wants. So lets see if we can rectify that with some theorycrafting! So immediately, we have a problem: Do we start at tier II or do we branch off from the Swedish line somewhere? Whelp, I'm going to leave that up to you dear reader! The following are 3 different candidates for tier II destroyer. They are: (Spain) Alsedo-class (Greece) Aetos-class (Yugoslavia) Triglav-class (ex Ciclone-class) Now the eagle eyed among you will notice that none of these are Dutch. While The Netherlands does have a period appropriate :ahem: Destroyer in the Wolf-class: This ship is far too weak to be seriously considered, especially when compared to every other tier II line DD. By comparison even to the 3 above ships, only Triglav is slower and all 3 have more torpedoes and more/ larger guns that are more in line with their contemporaries. Both Aetos and Alsedo are British designs with British torpedoes and 4" guns while Triglav is an Italian war reparation ship. A torpedo boat with 2 or 3 100mm guns and 4 18" TT. While Alsedo is rather typical in design Aetos is rather unique as it's 4 TTs are all single launch, 2 to a side. Personally, I am partial to one of these ships for reasons I'll explain later but for now you can choose, or not choose if one of these ships works for you. Tier III is also going to be devoid of anything Dutch (I swear they're coming!) Nonetheless, the best tier III candidate does have a lot of features in common with Dutch designs, so this ship could really help to set the tone for the line. Certainly more so that the tier II's! It also comes from a country that also borders the North Sea, which helps. Enter: (Norway) Gyller One of the excellent Sleipner-class torpedo boats built by Norway, Gyller would in a lot of ways actually mirror the capabilities of the Romulus in the Swedish line. She was fitted with 3 100mm Bofors guns and unlike her sisters, had 4 21" TTs rather than just 2. Interestingly enough, she was captured by the Germans during the invasion and was refit with 2x1 105mm guns and German light AA. Meanwhile, her sister Sleipner escaped to Britain and was rearmed with 2x1 4" guns and British light AA! Again, these refits (Take your pick which one you'd prefer) really do make her more of a repeat of Romulus than anything else. So this is also a ship that could be skipped, but I personally wouldn't. Not just because Norway deserves some love too, but also the torpedo characteristics for this line would likely be very different from the Swedish. The flavour of these ships should be more hybrid playstyle but still emphasizing guns and still based around the same 4.7" guns as the Swedes. Again, similar but different. Tiers IV and V are a bit akward (bud), mainly because I'm not completely sure how to balance our first honest to RNGesus Dutch DD: The Admiralen-class. They were built in two series The Van Ghent and Van Galen subclasses and were fairly similar apart from the slightly longer operating range and newer guns on the Van Galens. Famously, these ships were also noted for being able to carry a seaplane as well, though I doubt that would make much sense in the context of WoWs and were eventually removed anyway. Main armament was 4x1 4.7" guns of either Bofors or Wilton-Fijenoord design, and 2x3 21" TT. I can easily see both or (more realistically) a combined version of these ships show up at tier IV or V. Personally, I lean more towards a combined tier V variant. Either way, this can leave a gap at one of these tiers which must be filled. For tier IV at least, our Norwegian friends come to the rescue once again with this: (Norway) Ålesund-class Two of these ships we're just getting laid down when Germany invaded. Despite some intention to try and finish them, it never happened and the ships were largely forgotten. Main armament would have been four 4.7" guns with a twin mount forward and two singles superfiring aft. They again would have only had 2x2 21" TTs like their predecessors. I like this ship at tier IV more than the Admiralen TBH, and both as a direct development of Sleipner and a precursor to Admiralen, it just fits really well! The alternative tier V on the other hand, is really just a preliminary design for the tier VI ship, which sadly I still can't find any drawings of. Speaking of tier VI: (Netherlands) Gerard Callenburgh-class These fascinating ships were the direct follow-ons to the Admiralen. Armed now with five 4.7" guns with twin mounts in the 'A' and 'X' positions and a single mount in the 'Y' position, and 2x4 21" TTs, (and still the floatplane) these were meant to be pretty sold ships by most accounts. Interestingly though, neither of the 2 ships that actually got close to completed got that orginal armament installed. Issac Sweers escaped to Britain and was refit with 3x2 4" guns and British AA and sonar, making her sort of analogous to a Tribal-class. Gerard Callenburgh herself OTOH, was captured by the Germans and pressed into service as ZH1 changing only the AA and, possibly the torpedoes? Individually, both ships could be premiums in their own right and I wouldn't be surprised if the Issac Sweers does in fact become one, but the original design is just fine for this techline. Onto tier VII, where once again we have a choice. Either a non-Dutch ship but used by the Dutch or just a non-Dutch ship. Personally I prefer the latter: (Poland) Grom/ Huragan-class Yup. Błyskawica's sister. Trading torpedoes for guns now in the armaments department, this does make a somewhat awkward transition. Even with a theoretical refit. And speaking of which this also leads us to the Huragan sub-class that were the immediate follow on to Grom. These ships were basically just slightly improved repeats of Grom but not improved in any of the ways that matter to the game. Armament, speed, relative size all about the same. Therefore we can sort of lump these ships together as simply a single class. However, it does beg the question if doing that bumps them up to tier VIII? And what would go in their place? Unfortunately, this is where things kind of get tricky. On the one hand, tier VII is relatively easy with another British N-class DD, essentially Gadjah Mada's sister and half sister to the Polish ORP Piroun (Also an N-class, but fitted out in the same way as Orkan). So not a Dutch ship, other than by virtue of lend-lease. As for tier VIII, the best I've been able to come up with so far is an early DL design from around 1930-31 that was the precursor to the Tromp-class flotilla leaders. Main armament would have been 8x2 4.7" guns now and less armor than what Tromp was built with but still the same weak torpedo armament. So again, far from perfect. But that's nothing compared to what needs to fill tier IX. Here we come to a screeching halt. While many who have theorycrafted this before simply put the Holland-class ships in this spot, the truth is that it's a terrible and redundant option. This ship is basically just a slightly worse Friesland, and still has no torpedoes. I've seen some try to make the argument that, well just fudge it! Slap torps on it and call it a day! No. Just no. Stahp. Holland is not the answer, no matter how much you want it to be. In all the reading and researching I did, I hoped. No, I prayed I'd find some kind of obscure design study, preliminary drawing or... something to suggest an alternative to Holland that was truly Dutch. But no. The decision to forgo torpedoes on surface ships was made before they even started designing the ships. It was always part of their postwar design plans. So we must look elsewhere, but who's left? Who else can fill a tier IX slot? And with what ship? Well, despite the copious amounts of used Fletchers staring me in the face, I found a ship. From a rather unlikely source... As you can see from this little Shipbucket image, this is the Oquendo-class destroyer from Spain. However the variant of Oquendo that I would propose would not be that one, as that image depicts the earliest version of her with German 105mm guns. By 1948, a DP 4.7"/50 gun was developed and used instead. This gun was even produced for the Pizzaro-class patrol boats (really Corvettes) in the late 1940's. The ship was also supposed to be equipped with a sigle quad 21" TT launcher amidships and 2x3 TT launchers, one on each wing for a 7 torp broadside. The Oquendo that did eventually get built years later and was in service by 1960 however, lost most of this and we rebuilt as a pure ASW platform, with fewer guns, and ASW TTs only. This ~1950ish version of the ship though, can work. I imagine the gun performance wouldn't offer ROFs like the Swedish automatic guns but with 8 guns it will still throw a lot of shells around. Now I know that this is an extremely left-field choice for a line that's supposed to be about the Dutch. As you can imagine, going with a Spanish paper ship to flesh out tier IX when one could probably use that ship for a full Spanish line seems counterintuitive. But look, the performance of the ship does gel with the options that came before. And unlike the other Spanish DDs, this one isn't British at its base, it's French and yet so thoroughly different as to make it their own. As you can also imagine, this would mean that my tier II preference from before would also be Spanish, kind of bringing this full circle here. And with that said, the tier X selection of the Utrecht almost seems anticlimactic at this point: Basically, this is a Friesland but both her and Overijssel received 2x4 21" TT in the early 1960s as an experiment. Type of torpedoes are unknown but hey, torps on a Friesland! So there you have it. It ain't pretty, but damnit we got there! And until we can get some Dutch cruisers up in here, the DDs can still represent! I really would like to find more suitable alternatives for some of the non Dutch ships but they just don't seem to be out there. At least, not on the English speaking internet. So if anyone wants to come at me with some obscure drawings or specifications for interwar Dutch destroyer concepts to help fill gaps, by all means!
  7. This is your answer @SeaRaptor. It doesn't matter how much better/ worse it might be compared to it's peers. It's Indian. That's the point.
  8. That's a fair point @mofton, and in general I'll say that the BCs ought to offer faster rudder shift overall to compensate for weak armor, making them an active maneuvering class. And I would also expect (at least my BC variants) that the Lions would get better traverse as well. Especially my tier IX, since it only has the two turrets. The BB Lions OTOH, they can have marginally slower of one or the other (likely turret traverse, based on your chart).
  9. Yes I am saying that. ( Well the BC would go little Lion '45 to thicc Lion '44 but still). And in fairness @mofton, I completely agree that her implementation is just bad all around. The 16" guns should allow a greater emphasis on AP, and by splitting the ships apart, you can scale them to the tiers more appropriately than the frankly ridiculous franken-ship they came up with currently. The poor gun angles though, yeah that would be intrinsic to just late war/ post war designs. Just look at Vanguard!
  10. So VdT and Moltke can cross- fire after all? That certainly does change things. Thanks Magus!
  11. Welcome to part three of our at least three part series of "Will it Battlecruiser". If you'd like to catch up on the action up to this point check out parts One and Two. Today we're going to be covering the most talked about and/or theorycrafted BC lines: Britain and Germany. Both nations contributed more real-steel designs than all other nations put together, while simultaneously being some of the most frustrating lines to actually create full techlines for! Nonetheless, the two nations are far more complimentary and similar in terms of general performance and line development than even I realized! Therefore without further adieu, lets start with Myag... Cobr... eh, the Germans. This is going to be kind of a short walkthrough since I'm basing my line largely on the excellent work of @Shrayes_Bhagavatula and his "Raider" BB line split for Germany. If you haven't read his thread, I highly recommend doing so! His top tier options and playstyle gel pretty well with the overall design aesthetic of German BC's so all I am doing is simply using his branch as a springboard to extend all the way down to tier III. For those of you TL;DRers out there his branch is as follows: VI: Mackensen-class VII: Gneisenau VIII: Bismarck-class IX: H-39 X: H-40a w/ 8x2 16" guns (Though I personally would add an option for 42cm guns as well.) The main characteristics of these ships are that they are lighter, faster ships than the contemporary main line German BB's, often with faster firing but lighter/ fewer main guns but still keeping the common German traits of turtleback armor and strong secondaries. As I mentioned previously, this gels surprisingly well with the WWI era true BCs and makes creating a cohesive line from BC--> fast BB muuuuch easier. So with that said, lets start to backfill! Starting at tier V we have: V: Derfflinger-class As one might expect, for those of you forum readers who've been around the block, this ship is our 3rd in line. Main armament is only 8x2 12" guns, compared to the 10x2 12" found on the König-class. His speed should help to make up the deficit in firepower while the improved armor profiles (compared to their British contemporaries) should enable them to survive longer in mid-range battles. In a sense, these ships would be more akin to cruiser-killers, only firing on BBs opportunistically or when among allies. Next up at tier IV, a surprise I'm sure to some of you I'm sure: IV: Seydlitz Moltke-class Thanks to @Lord_Magus and finally getting some better looks at the schematics of these respective ships. I have reevaluated tiers III and IV so now Moltke is tier IV and the Von der Tann has come back as the starting tier III shown below: III: Moltke-class Von der Tann Let's now take a look at the ships Cob... Mya... Rex Kwan d.... uh the Royal Navy, can muster. And I'm going to preface this now; my top tiers are not what you think! III: Indefatigable-class This ship was chosen over the Invincible in the same way Bellerophon was chosen over Dreadnought; they were slightly improved, serialized ships over the preceding class. (Yes I am aware Invincible wasn't a one-off, work with me here!) Despite largely being a repeat, she did get improvements in armor and speed that should offer her a bit more... parity to Moltke than her sister class while still exemplifying the ethos of British BC's, thin armor, good-but-not-great firepower and high-er speed than any contemporary BB. Her guns, while not having particularly great firing angles, can still cross-fire as well, enabling an 8-ish gun broadside. From here, the rest of the line is pretty standard for most fans of the British BCs and proceeds as follows: IV: Lion Princess Royal-class V: Tiger VI: Renown-class (with refits) VII: Admiral-class (Anson) Now, it's at this point that other British BC lines end up with some combination of the follow-on alphabet classes that were in development in the early 1920's. And while tier VIII won't be any different, at least to a degree, don't expect Incomparable or anything of the sort to show up at tier X. For starters though let's have a look at the J3: This ship, obviously part of the Alphabet series of designs was basically the direct successor to Hood and the rest of the Admiral-class ships. It's also a far more conventional design than the ship that was chosen to replace the Admiral-class program, the G3. So why isn't G3 here? Well, it simply comes down to the unconventional design of that ship when compared to the rest of the line. This same justification was also the reason for keeping Nelson out of the line as well, since it's all forward gun placement would have been an extremely awkward shift in playstyle, so too would G3 after Admiral. I would certainly consider that G3 becomes a premium though, and hope that it does! But for the techline, J3 and it's 15" guns (which give it equivalent firepower to Monarch) offers a much better flow. Speaking of Monarch, allow me to digress for just a moment here, I promise it will all make sense... I despise this ship. Even though I have not played it, nor will ever do so Monarch is the single biggest bone of contention I have with WoWs and it's paper techline ships. Period. More than the Russian ships (which I really don't mind for the most part) More than the new Super Standards, more than the Italian high tier ships (though they are a close second). And why is this the hill I chose to die on? Well, it's because above all else it's lazy. A preliminary design that succeeds it's real-steel design. And it's not even particularly well done for a paper ship at that, rife with historical inaccuracies and wrapped up in a ship that, aside for marginally larger guns is the same basic ship from the preceding tier. And even though it did come into the game as a premium, HMS Vanguard would have been a natural alternative, but wasn't used. Why am I telling you all of this, what does it have to do with battlecruisers? Glad you asked. Since the J3 is (speed and armor aside) going to offer otherwise similar capabilities to the Monarch, it gives me an opportunity to replace it with something else. Something marginally more real and most importantly, different enough in capability to J3 to be unique. Enter: Lion. What you see here is the early versions of Lion through 1940, similar to what we have at tier IX in game already. Many believe that Lion is one of the weaker tier IX BBs, merely a last stepping stone before you get to Conquerer. I find that incredibly disappointing given that this ship was the counter to not only any German BB, it was to be Britain's answer to Iowa. And it's easy to see why, with her squishy sides, weak torpedo protection and somewhat lackluster 16" guns which means you just end up using the anachronistic 16.5" guns instead. What I propose instead is to move Lion as she exists down to tier VIII, replacing Monarch while J3 becomes it's spiritual successor. her 9x3 16" guns, in terms of AP power fall somewhere in between Nelson's and the American Freedomizer™ shells. She would still have the squishy-ish armor and poor torpedo protection (known flaws of the early versions of the ship). Detuned, this ship can easily be comparable to the Vladivostok or North Carolina-class at tier VIII, and provide a true alternative playstyle against the J3 in the BC line. So what then do we do with these lines tier IX ships? Well, Lion comes to the rescue again. This version of Lion is her in her proposed 1942 redesign. note the lack of spotter plane now and the much heavier AA suite. That's not all, she also would get the same Mk.IV 16" guns she has now in game but they would be improved. The Mk.IV was designed to handle higher pressures for new heavy AP shells which would make the guns in this version of the ship behave more like the guns on North Carolina or the Alabama (though she does have higher muzzle velocity than either of those, which is nice.) A lot of work also went into enhanced torpedo and deck armor protection as well. And sure, if you really want to keep them you can still have this ship with the 16.5" guns too though it'd make no sense. So while this neatly wraps up the BB line gaps what does the BC line have? This delightful little fella is one of the 1945 Lion-class proposals, meant to be a reduced size and cost alternative to not only fit in British naval shipyards (larger ships would have to be built in civilian ones, competing with civilian ship contracts) but also to enable the Royal Navy to maintain a sizeable postwar BB fleet. While it is still armed with 16" Mk.IV guns, it should be noted that these 1944/45 ship proposals were to have all been using the new Mk.III turret which was supposed to offer a rate of fire of 3 RPM. That's right, a 20 second base reload. So, whilst only having 6 guns, it can still pump out an impressive dpm, additionally carrying plenty of AA and, 4.5"in turrets as you can see above. Armor is quite variable on these ships, this particular version shown above for instance (B7) has only about 9-11" of belt armor and modest torpedo protection. Additionally, all of the ships were required to achieve a top speed of only 29kts so it would take a little WeeGee imagineering to give this ship the requisite HP to get to at least 30 knots but it's by no means inconceivable to do so. This finally bring us to the tier X in all of it's Lion-y glory: This is the 1944 Version of the ship and were among the largest variants ever proposed. Weighing in at an impressive 64500 tonnes full load. Designed to achieve a top speed of 31.5 knots it needed all that size to speed through the water. As you can see, we're also back to 9 guns, also of the Mk.IV in the Mk.III speedloader turrets. It should be noted that while all of the Royal Navies 16" guns were 45 caliber, there were plans and even a test unit for a 50cal version to be built (unofficially referred to as Mk.V) which would bring the guns performance closer to Iowa/Montana with their 16"/50 rifles. This gun though, would only show up on the 1944/45 ships however. Also, one final note for the eagle-eyed among you, yes those are torpedoes mounted amidships. Quintuple launchers no less! They were removed in the 1945 designs and I haven't decided whether it would be a good idea to give them to the tier IX ship or omit them from the tier X ship? Either way, despite the class stretching of epic proportions, we have found a way to create a full BC--> fast BB line for the British. Phew! Finally finished with the big boys! Of course there were other nations that tried and failed to develop battlecruisers as well that I have yet to cover. If you're interested in having me beat this dead horse into a fine powder, let me know! Otherwise comments and suggestions are always welcome and thank you again to @Shrayes_Bhagavatula and @Tzoli for the images!
  12. In our continuing series of "Will it battlecruiser?" We'll take a look at a nation that frankly, is long overdue for some new blood that isn't a derivative premium: Japan. While Japanese battlecruiser lines have been theorized on the forum before, many of them were derived from the idea that the BBs and BCs needed to be completely divorced from one another and exist in two separate lines, a la Britain and Germany. However, it's important to note that as the oldest BB line in the entire game it also happens to be the most BC forward of them as well. What I mean is that with 3 genuine BCs as part of the lineup (Myogi, Kongo, Amagi) not to mention 2 1/2 premium ones as well (I consider Kii to be kind of a BC, really just at true fast BB) BCs have not only been implemented successfully in WoWs, they've been clear path to the IJN's... flavour if you will in the game. Therefore, my proposal for a BC line would really be more of a split instead of a true 2nd line. Save those again, for Germany and Britain. So lets dive right in with the theorycrafting and see how this could look. Strap yourselves in though, the following ships are doozies! The first thing we need to look at is where does the split occur? Well, conventional wisdom might say it occurs from the tier III Kawachi, as it was a true Dreadnought and everything that comes after (until tier VI that is) is a BC. So just backfill with some other BB designs and you're good to go right? NO! While there are a few notable and well documented early BBs that could fit in that timeframe, including some early Fuso designs shown here: (H/T @Tzoli for all the amazing drawings I'm going to use in this post!) These ships by the way would be armed with 12"/50 and 14" guns respectively so while they would work, I'm not going to incorporate them here. My idea is instead to have the BC--> Fast BB line become the main line and more traditional heavy armor/ firepower BB's be the branch or spur line. Should we ever get to the point where we can start to see BB tiers lower than III at any point in the future, than yes we can revisit these designs to offer a better flow for the BB split. For now though, Kawachi remains a perfectly cromulent staring point. Our actual point of deviation will be with tier VI, branching off of the Kongo as one would expect. Therefore the actual Fuso becomes the start of that new (old?) BB branch, so what then would we see for tier VI in the BC line? Well... What you're looking at are blueprints from the excellent archive of the late Vice Admiral Baron Yuzuaru Hiraga. Hiraga-san was one of Japan's chief naval architects during this time, and had left his entire body of work and portfolio (over 40.000 artifacts in fact!) to the University of Tokyo, much of which you can view online! Why tell you all this? Because Hiraga-san is really going to be the primary source for any other designs that had come about during this period, and, while vague are certainly better than nothing. The designs shown above in particular are various design studies for battlecruisers that will eventually morph into the Amagi-class at tier VIII. The designs ran from project number B-58 all the way to B-64, which became the Amagi. The B-62 designs, with 6 subvariants A-F, are the most likely ones to fill out both tiers VI and VII. Essentially just bigger, longer and faster versions of the Nagato ranging in displacement from 35.000-46.000 tonnes and armed with 8x2 14" or 16.1" guns. Armor also varied to anywhere from 8-10" on the belt, and speed was generally between 32-35kts depending on the subvariant in question. There is more than enough information here to flesh out 2 complete ships for tiers VI and VII, provided they're given the same theoretical refits that the real-steel ships received. Tier VIII then, is simply the same old Amagi, we all know and love: Obviously this will leave a gap at tier VIII for the BB line, the only gap in fact. So what is going to fill that Amagi shaped hole? Well, if you know your ships or have been following along in the forums for a while you'll know that it's the Amagi's smaller, slower thiccer cousin, the Tosa-class: Finally we get to the good stuff. Tiers IX and X. And for those of you wondering, no there won't be a No. 13 design in sight! Instead, we're going to offer some slightly more eclectic designs starting with this one: This image once again is provided to us by Hiraga's archive, but was actually designed by a man named Kikuo Fujimoto. Both men had been part of a program in the late 20 and early 30's to design a replacement ship for the Kongo-class. With the London Naval Treaty looming, the ships were largely derivative in design and all between 25.000-35.000 tonnes to comply with the treaty. Speed would have been somewhat low for Hiraga-san's designs all clocking in at between 25 and 26 knots. In fact, one of these designs is fairly well known and even a physical model of the design was made to show off to the Naval General Staff: Unfortunately, despite the promise of a 10 gun, 16.1" broadside on this treaty battleship, this is not the design I am using. While there is a lot of vagueness to Fujimoto-san's design, it was able to cram 3x3 41cm guns into a 35.000 tonne ship and presumably achieve speeds in excess of 26 knots. But we don't know that for sure. As a backup though, Hiraga-san did come up with an, "unleashed" design if you will to achieve maximum performance within the specifications: This by the way, is the earliest genesis of the Yamato-class. Last but not least, is tier X: Since the Hizen is now going to be a premium in the game, it pretty much takes the wind out of the sails for a so called "light Yamato" that can rather nicely fit in the top end of this tree. So instead, you get this thing. A 67.000 tonne fast battleship from 1934. Designed by a man named Ezaki Iwiakichi, an understudy of Fujimoto-san. These designs were part of a preliminary 1934 program for new battleships, prior to the official A-140 program that would result in the Yamato. The ship was supposed to achieve a top speed between 31 and 33 knots, and be armed with the same 18.1" guns as Yamato. Unfortuantely, not much is known about its armor profile, likely those design specs were lost to time and the war, but it does provide a great starting point for WG to adjust the values as they see fit for a fast, quasi-Yammy. So there you have it. Japan's missing links to create a true fast battleship line. And for those of you wondering why I didn't just find some No. 13 battleship designs to make this, it's simply because these designs are just more modern. They're post treaty ships and just fit more naturally than trying to stuff 1920's era ships into a WWII timeframe, no matter how many fantasy refits you give it. :cough: Vermont :cough:. As always, comments and feedback are most welcome!
  13. Whelp, sorry to see how things shook out @Fr05ty, your TT proposal was great, and it is disappointing that they just went with the ol more guns=more better treatment. Another techline that I'll have no inclination to grind to the end, so saves me some time I guess? At least the real-steel ships look great, so I'll take solace in that.
  14. Don't you worry... they're a'comin'.
  15. Not likely. Keep in mind the tier IV and V were just design studies and were never approved for construction. But based on their naming conventions, you could easily find other ship names for them.
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