Theodin

No wonder they don’t bother posting here, just a bunch of angry people that have nothing better to do than hang out here and complain. Seriously, why don’t you guys that hate on everything so much just move on with your lives? It can’t be healthy to keep participating in something that just brings you down so much. Maybe its time to accept that WG vision for the game does not coincide with your desires and let it go at that...

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/113651-transcript-of-the-recent-balance-stream/?page=3# For those who don't frequent the EU forums here is a transcript of a recent Q&A by the WG head of balancing... I think this is the first topic I have EVER started in these forums, so please pardon the bad formatting etc... I found it very informative. Felt it needed a wider audience. YMMV - Sir_Nelson is responsible for glorious balans for the past year or so - MrConway got accused of being a "filthy CV sniper" in chat by someone from TWA - Sir_Nelson spends most of his work time on analytics. All stats (e.g. MM, up/down tier rate, damage, survivability etc.) are part of this. If he sees a problem, he'll talk to his colleagues about how to amend it. After that comes internal testing to see if said idea was implemented the way they wanted it to be. New mechanics are also being conceived this way. - Disclaimer by MrConway: It is not even final yet whether GC will get changed at all. It's all in testing, nothing is decided. 1. Question: "Do you think she (GC) is the root of all balance evil?" She's down there, yes. GC is overpowered and something needs to be done. Community feedback was heavily considered in this. Statistics were also off the charts even in T6 and T7 battles. Follow up question from MrConway: "Why change tier rather than directly nerfing GC?" GC would have to get super nerfed to fit in T5, it's better to just move her up a tier and let her keep her current traits. If kept at T5 she'd essentially become a different ship altogether and thus feel completely different. 2. Question: "Does it really make sense to do the testing right now with the fluctuating meta (aka CV rework)?" The CV rework doesn't affect GC much because she has bad AA, so it should be fine. Testing period is also several months long so the new meta will probably settle by that time. 3. Question: "Is this only judged by damage or are other stats considered?" WR can't really be compared between tiers due to MM. The combat effectiveness of BBs also primary comes from damage dealing and tanking, so for a BB damage is a very important balancing stat. GC is on top of the "damage delta" (difference in relative damage dealt vs relative damage received). (Relative dmg is percentage of HP taken off. Straight up damage number doesn't work as a balancing stat due to the difference in HP pool between classes.) 4. Question: "Will Yuudachi have normal or DW torps poi?" Dunno yet. Can't talk about it. - Disclaimer by Crysantos: Everything released on the dev blog is in testing and thus always subject to change. Always take info there with a grain of salt. Don't produce tons of salt over it. 5. Question: "CV MM +/-1?" No. Can't be done unless all other classes are also made +/- 1. MrConway: "Anything planned to address tiering issues with CVs because T8 CVs in T10 is a horrible experience?" Checked stats, in terms of relative damage T8 CVs in T10 deal almost as much damage as T8 BBs in T10. I understand why players struggle, but you really need to change your playstyle when you're in a T10 match with a T8 CV. Other classes don't have this issue (T8 DDs basically do the same stuff as T10s), but with a CV you have to think about target choice. We are thinking about easing the pain however, but we don't have any solutions right now. And stats show that T8 CVs can do fine in T10. 6. Question: "Do you even play bro?" Not much on the live server because I always test on internal servers (makes sense considering, you know, stuff like the new flooding change cannot just be straight up tested on the live server unless you patch it in). ~20-50 battles a week on the live server. Don't actively count. A lot of my battles are in Excel. (Note that this is clearly meant as a halfway joke. Excel is basically the lifeblood of all game designers, I don't see why Sir_Nelson is being lynched over this statement tbh.) - MrConway states that he enjoys the CV rework. BURN THE WITCH! 7. Question: "Why nerf the quality of life of IJN 2x CV torps instead of just changing damage/squad size/etc.?" Because it was a bit too much. When you attack you could maneuver without your reticle expanding. We wanted to change it so that they are still more comfy than USN torps but reward your target for maneuvering so you'll have a harder time. Didn't want to nerf plane HP because IJN TBs are already squishy. 8. Question: "What is the role of CVs in inter-class balance?" CVs are damage dealers, but they're not the most specialized at it. E.g. cruisers are better at dealing damage against DDs and DDs are better at dealing damage against BBs. A CV however can deal damage to everything pretty much equally well, so they're the "universal soldier" as well as the best scouts. 9. Question: "Buff Haku 4x torp speed again?" We'll see. Not enough data yet as update has just been released. 10. Question: "Any plans to help with DD misery beyond radar change?" We're definitely looking at it. Can't share anything right now however. 11. Question: "More ammo types like sAP for Italians?" Don't think so. Balance and distinction between HE and AP is very good right now. HE and AP both currently have very distinctive and viable counterplay options. Something in between like sAP, having meh fire chance and meh pen, would blur the line beyond where we want it to be. But never say never. Maybe in the future but it is not currently planned. 12. Question: "How many months for CV balance?" Hoping for several months. Crysantos: "How long does it take to gather enough data for any new ship?" Depends on the ship or line. In most cases it's 2-4 months. Some ships however have a "special audience" (Does he mean this in a positive or negative way? No idea. ), so they have to consider that as well. 13. Question: "Are premium CVs still being balanced? They do not feel worth it currently." (*laughs in Enterprise*) Yes, but current stats actually show that they're in a good state. However we are currently focused more on general balance like AA, once that is done we can get back to individual ships. Crysantos: Please give feedback if you are struggling with certain ships or if there are some ships that do not feel fun to play. Use forums, social media, talk to CCs etc. Stats can't evaluate fun so feedback is very important. 14. Question: "How to define OP?" WR is most important, but average player skill is in fact considered in that. Generally all stats are considered (avg damage, survivability, k/d, etc.) and compared to same tier/class ships. If players play multiple ships in said class on said tier and their performance in comparison is also a relevant stat. If the ship is significantly above her contemporaries then it is deemed OP, but there is no fixed metric for it such as "2% WR better" or sth as hard stats are not always telling the whole picture. This is why distribution of players (average skill and player stat comparison in same tier/class ships) is considered. Crysantos: This is why stats fluctuate even on copycat ships (e.g. Myoko clones) due to a different player distribution. 15. Question: "CA armor buff still wip?" Yes. Can't say more tho. Current focus is on the CV rework. 16 Question: "How to prevent death of DD class due to CVs?" Old stats show a drop in popularity in high tier DDs, but recent stats show that DDs are growing back to usual popularity. Refer to previous question about DDs being murdered by CVs. (Aka it's being looked at but cannot share anything right now) Crysantos: CV hype will eventually die down. Ideal CV population is 1 per side which will make DD play better. 17. Question: "T6 in T8 MM improvements pls?" Nothing is planned specifically for T6 in T8 matches. We'll take a look at further MM improvements. 18. Question: "Wouldn't it have been smarter to keep odd tier CVs due to current CV tiering issues?" Odd tier CVs will come back as even tier CVs. Info on dev blog already announced. (Note that Crysantos misphrased the question and asked whether odd tier CVs would make a comeback.) Crysantos: AA and CV tiering issues are being looked at right now. This is not an issue with the removal of odd tier CVs but with AA itself. 19. Question: "Was overspotting in RTS CVs actually a problem Y/N?" There is less spotting with new CVs now, but we're still considering it. Overall CVs will however remain the best spotting class. (Question was most likely misunderstood.) MrConway: "Early spotting can be very frustrating. Give CVs initial delay maybe?" We're thinking about it, but it would probably be too painful for the CV player. We're not disregarding this idea, but we're hoping to find a more elegant solution. 20. Question: "RPF on aircraft intended?" Yes, but we'll probably remove it. 21. Question: "Other classes have to wait for action at the start of the match too. Why are CVs different?" Other classes have other active decisions to make such as deciding where to go etc. in the first few minutes. If CVs were given a delay they'd be sitting around doing nothing. Crysantos: Again we're looking into it, but it's not that easy. 22. Question: "T8 CV vs T10 AA comments pls?" We're looking to ease the pain a bit from the player perspective, but not in stats. Stats show that T8 CVs in T10 are doing fine due to dealing good amounts of relative damage and being great spotters. We understand that it can be too painful however, but it is tricky to solve it because we can't just straight up buff CVs as they'd be overperforming then. 23. Question: "Will VU suffer from bad AA and slow speed on T5? Also add reload booster?" Reload booster on T5 BB? (Asked in a manner of "Are you insane?") VU on T5 is still in testing. We just recently buffed her heal. 24: Question: "Was Exeter OP because you took away her smoke and firepower?" Obviously, otherwise we would not have nerfed her. She's also still in testing however. 25. Question: "Flak is too easy to dodge. Any plans on reworking aircraft and AI aiming?" (Ironically MrConway was getting murdered by flak just as this question popped up lol) Manual AA control will not happen as it would be too much on the player. CVs would also be inherently prevented from using manual AA in the current concept. Flak is meant to be avoidable. If they were unavoidable they'd basically just be DPS. This is what makes the gameplay enjoyable. We also made sure that flak no longer punishes as much as it did initially. 26. Question: "Exeter up tiered to T6 maybe?" No, because her armor is too weak. 27. Question: "Overspotting?" (again) Crysantos: Shouldn't be an issue once CV hype calms down and we get 1 CV per team. But we're also looking into helping DDs in general. 28. Question: "Is ships having no AA at all in low tiers an issue?" Some ships in high tiers also have worse AA than others. Having no AA at all is ofc more extreme than that and we will adjust if needed. Crysantos: This was also previously the case as low tier CVs existed prior to the rework too. Some ships also have no/little AA due to balancing like Arkansas Beta or Nikolai. 29. Question: "Manual dogfighting with fighters?" No. 30. Question: "Quality of life changes for USN CV torps?" USN CV torps were designed to mostly deal with BBs. USN CV gimmicks are DBs and rockets, not torps. I believe we are in the right spot concerning the balance of USN plane types. Crysantos: Working as intended. 31. Question: "CVs have best damage and best scouting capabilities. Too much?" We still need more data to make decisions about this. 32. Question: "What is a CV supposed to do against Mino that just melts planes?" Try with TB long drops or long range rockets. (Yes, long range rocket attacks are actually a thing. You need an island for that tho.) MrConway: In my experience you can always get at least one strike into a Mino if you want to sacrifice planes to do it. (Same here tbh.) You are basically asking "How can I strike the most powerful AA ship in the game?" with aircraft and it's like trying to kill a Yamato using Shima guns. It's technically doable, but will be painful. I recommend picking your targets more wisely. Some ships simply hard counter others, it's the same with every class. Crysantos: Communication is also important. If you want that Mino killed, tell your team to focus it down. In a team game like WoWs you need teamplay. 33. Question: "Speshul bombs for taking out modules?" (Seriously wat?) You mean like HE bombs? Crysantos: Plans for any more special bomb types for CVs? Don't think so. We have HE and AP bombs and I think it's fine for now, but it is something to consider for the future as there are some nice historical ideas for the game. 34. Question: "MrConway just torped 2 guys before they even left their spawn. How is this fine?" MrConway: One of them beached, the other sat stationary in smoke. If you are stupid you'll get punished. (Literally what he said btw. And quite frankly I agree.) 35. Question: "CV spotting like reworked radar spotting?" (Aka delay in hard spotting, before that only minimap spotting) Possible, but I don't think it'll change the situation much. The radar change was introduced because it is a one button mechanic that has no warning. With planes you can see them coming from far away and try to maneuver away before they spot you. Crysantos: Radar is also time based. There is basically no limit in how long a CV can spot you for so a delay is kinda pointless. 36. Question: "Update on CVs in ops?" Actually I dunno. Crysantos: Me neither. We'll have to check and get back to you on that next time 37. Question: "Increased rewards for bottom tier CVs for spotting and spotting damage?" Maybe. Economy tweaks will happen once balancing is settled. Crysantos: Whether you do well or not in a bottom tier CV is dependent on AA. AA is still subject to change, so it doesn't make sense to make economy tweaks based on current values right now. 38. Question: "ARE YOU GLORIOUS TSAR OF BALANS OR IS BALANS MADE BY COMMITTEE?" lolwut? xD *Crysantos clarifies* Final decision is in fact mine, but feedback from colleagues and the community is by no means discarded. Crysantos: SO U R RESPONSIBLE FOR HINDENBURG NERF! MrConway: GIVE ME BACK MY SECOND! GIVE ME PREMIUM VERSION OF HINDENBURG! REST OF PEASANTS CAN HAVE NERFED VERSION! Crysantos: ALSO GIVE ME BACK OLD T6 PRE AFT + BFT NERF CLEVE! Sir_Nelson: Honestly if I had to pick I would pick glorious old 155mm AFT + BFT Mogami with stealth fire. MrConway and Crysantos: Honestly I have no idea why this stream is catching so much flak? I mean yeah, I guess Sir_Nelson seems unsure etc. if you take his words literally but English is clearly not his first language, so taking him literally is kinda stupid to say the least. 3

Absolutely not true... Running CE on planes and still Minotaur, Worc and god knows how many AA DD (Grov, Kidd etc...) will wipe out, not just damage but completely wipe out T8 squads before you see them. T10 planes do a little better, but the planes are so damaged you need to recall them as they wont make it on target. There were so many DD players that WG had to cap the amount or everyone was going to play one. Even now I am seeing 4DD per game and yet you guys are still calling foul. Face it your supposed to be part of your team, not some yolo ninja solo warrior.

Don’t stress there OP, you don’t have to change your tactics, these rants seem to resonate with WG and they will be removing RDF from airplanes soon enough. Hell pretty soon CV will be a scarce as pre 8.0 patch levels, seeing the decline in pop increase every day.

Your welcome, and yeah my sentiments exactly!

My understanding is that the Dev in charge of game balance announced it today during a live stream for the EU community.

Thats official, removing the ability of planes to benefit from RDF is next CV nerf inbound.

Well said OP Could not have said it better myself. My friends feel the same way, and for many this was final bump to move on. I don’t think any game companies really pay attention to the rants and baby rage in the forums, so I agree this was the plan from the beginning. When Devs do come and talk its only to explain their genius to us, not hear how bad we think it is. Its not gonna change back, it never does, good luck with your request.

So spread sheet balancing = reward low skill players by adjusting the game to suit their play style? Very troubling, as stealth launched torpedo spam players (skill walls) don’t adapt...get massacred- stop playing... And WG looks at stats says game unbalanced lets buff DD/nerf opposing classes to regain “balance”. I got a bad feeling about where this is all leading...

I think you were supposed to cash your carriers in through the arsenal, thats where they offer you the gold for your premium CV and I thought they said you would get FXP and that you would not have to pay to convert it.

The people leaving (Are they really?) is Darwin at its finest. I don’t think we should drag this game down to the lowest common denominator in skill. I am average at best and it works for me...I am just not resistant to change. ‘Adapt and overcome’ have been replaced with polls and whining. In all my gaming I have never before seen a class try to completely remove the class meant to directly counter it? Sad times indeed.

This is a terrible precedent. I had hoped WG would stand strong and ‘tune’ CV, and fix Hak... They instead just rolled over for the haters and now CV will go back to the dust bin. Saw this happen in Eve, a very vocal group was able to ‘take over ‘ the direction of the game and dictate development. It gave them a solid user base, at the expense of growth potential. Trade- offs I guess. Well having tracked WG history, since the anger has subsided I don’t expect any corrections to AA for a long while if ever. Sadly disappointed...

I stopped putting money into this game long ago, like many others I feel the developer is too unstable, and the player base just seems bent on attacking itself at every turm (be it carriers now, BB before, DD before that etc...). Tried to recruit a friend to try the game once, the look of terror in his eyes as he stoutly refused after I stated the title WoWs, he had heard such terrible thing about the “community “ he wasn’t coming near this game. But we all move on eventually, don’t we?

Not everyone is doing it. Why not just report it and move on such drama queens. Whatever happened to recognizing you don’t like something and acting with dignity? Just go play something else for awhile. A lot of us like the changes! Instead end thread after thread of whiney crying rage monkeys... ffs give a rest already.

Your exactly right OP, and most games I play everyone seems to be enjoying themselves as games are much more dynamic, everyone is moving. Only here in the forums is ther a massive amount of rage by what I expect is a small but very vocal minority. They invested heavily in trying to stop the rework, now they fight even harder to roll it back and claim some sort of poetic justice. I do hope they fail and WG stands firm.